Surplus H-380?

[fatelk]

Can anyone tell me anything about this old powder? As you can see, it's marked "H-380 Slow Lot - Lot 43" Hodgdon Powder Company, Inc.

I'm guessing it's pretty darn old, but it looks and smells fine as far as I can tell. I think I'll carefully work up a couple loads in .303 British and .30-06.

[salpal48]

H 380 surplus was before Hodgdon started to sell it Retail. I don't Know what the slow lot Means I don't think there is any difference between the current stuff and the Old . If it's opened . Then I would think differtly

[Mk42gunner]

I think H380 was supposed to work very well in the .22-250 with 38 grains, which is where the name came from.

Robert

[country gent]

A lot of hodgdons early powders were surplus from military or comercial factories. H4831, H380, And a couple others were surplus they packaged and sold. They did do testing on each batch that came in and slow lot would mean this batch was slower than previous batches / lots. We used to buy GI 380 from a guy in kentucky 200-400 lbs at a time for the club and it was slightly slower than H 380, but did great in 308 and similar cartridges. If what you have has been stored properly it should be good but as with all surpluss powder work up from low end load carefully watching pressure sighns closely

[runfiverun]

actually the fast lot would be used to ignite tracers and the slower slow lot was for regular bullets/cartridges/ammo. whatever....
I'd use normal H-380 data and work up from the bottom.

[fatelk]

Thanks everyone. I have a bunch of .22-250 brass on the back shelf and a nice older model 700 in the safe that hasn't been to the range in a long time. Oh, and a couple boxes of old "Zipedo" bullets I found a while back. It's all starting to look like a good combination that needs to be tried out.

[USMC87]

I've never seen powder in a bag like that, How old do you suppose that powder would be?

[Yodogsandman]

I shot surplus H-380 about 30 years ago in a 6.5x55 Swede using 140gr jacketed bullets. I must have had the fast lot, I couldn't use it at maximum charges but, boy would it shoot good! At the time I think I was only able to snag 2 lbs of the stuff, everyone wanted it!

[Ken in Iowa]

I've never seen powder in a bag like that, How old do you suppose that powder would be?

WWII or Korea

[rintinglen]

I recall seeing those bags in Gunshops in the late 60's. Given that the bag has a zip code, it was printed after 1963, probably after 1967. So best guess would be that the powder is 50-55 years old.

[fatelk]

I know this is an old thread, but I finally got out to try this old powder in the 22-250. I had a partial can of new H380 to compare it against. Using some 53gr Sierras I loaded up some rounds from 38 to 41 grains of each, old and new, marked them carefully and sent them over the chronograph.

I would say it's a "slow lot" for sure. I didn't get any abnormal pressure signs with any of them, but the new production powder topped out at 3770 fps with 41gr., whereas the old stuff topped out at 3420 fps with the same charge. I'll try working up a little more but I'm not sure enough will physically fit in the case to attain typical 22-250 velocity, and I haven't really tested the loads for accuracy either. I may end up working up some 30-06 loads with it instead.

Speaking of accuracy, I did put a few on paper at 100 yards. I've got this ridiculous scope on that rifle, a Tasco 36x50 that you can read the fine print on the target with. I haven't used it in a few years, but I think there's something wrong with it now. It's nice and clear, then it'll fuzz out and twitch for a second or two like an old TV when you adjust the rabbit ears. Dang, maybe it's not the scope.

The guys I was shooting with laughed and made comments about how the warranty expires at 45 when things start falling apart. :(

[Virginian]

I hope you get it all sorted out. I would put a decent scope on that rifle though. It's sounds like your scope is giving you issues.

[fatelk]

I was making a joke about the scope- actually I think I probably need an eye check up. I've been hesitant to do it because I've been noticing slight changes in vision as I get older.

The single 6-round group I shot with the rounds loaded with the newer powder were still just under and inch, with no load development, me out of practice and my wonky eye. The rifle is just a standard old ADL 700, but it has proven itself to be capable of better than that. I'm not so much into making tiny little groups anymore but this old rifle makes it fun.

[Ricochet]

H380 started out as surplus WC852 .30 caliber powder. There were big lot to lot variations in WC852. Some very slow stuff got surplused out through Hi-Tech and Bartlett 12-15 years or so ago. It likely got surplused because it was too slow to load to specs. Nominally 50 grains of either IMR 4895 or WC852 was loaded in the .30 cal M2 round with the same reported ballistics. (From the tables in the back of Cartridges of the World on military loads.)

[fatelk]

It likely got surplused because it was too slow to load to specs.

Yep, I think that's what I got. I'm guessing much too slow for an M1. I just tried a few more over the chronograph in the 22-250: 44.0 gr. clocks at 3600 fps., a good 150fps slower that typical for that bullet weight. I've only got a couple pounds, and it only cost me $10/lb, so I'll find something to do with it.

[GooseGestapo]

re: scope; Sounds like heat mirage off the barrel and a 36x scope!
With any wind, the mirage is blown away, but low wind conditions allows it to rise, distorting the image. And it goes away when the wind moves it.
Look down the side of the barrel. You'll see the heat distortion waves.

[fatelk]

I didn't think about that! That actually makes me feel better. I thought something was going wrong with my eyes, thinking I needed to see an eye doctor. Thank you!

[Wayne Smith]

I didn't think about that! That actually makes me feel better. I thought something was going wrong with my eyes, thinking I needed to see an eye doctor. Thank you!

Years ago, I'm now older than my Dad was then! I loaded some ammo for my Dad's 30-30, had been for years. I was living in WVA, Dad was in Front Royal, VA. He called me and told me that he thought something was wrong with my ammo. I told him we were coming for Thanksgiving and we could check it out then.

Dad had a Marlin 336 with a Bear Cub 4x scope on it. We took a grocery bag and put a two inch bull in the center with a black magic marker. Went to where he shot, hung the bag up around 70 yds down range. He proceeds to look through the scope, over the scope, through the scope, and asks me "Wayne, did we put a bull on that target?" I averred as to the fact that we had. "Did we put it in the center?" Again, I averred as to the fact. Two shots rang out. We looked at the target, two rounds centered 1.5" above the bull. "Dad", I said, "My ammo is OK. You need new glasses!" He agreed.

[cowboybart]

I have loaded some in 7x57 w/ good results (standard pressure). Because you have a slow lot, I would think fear of high pressure would be low on the list of things to worry about.

[giddy]

fatelk
Hodgdon sold powder in those "coffee" bags thru the 1960's. H-380 began as surplus WC852, which the military used in .30-06 only. Hodgdon also had H-375 which appeared before H-380, and was also surplus .30-06 powder. Today, most reloaders are aware of WC852 and WC852 slow lots. The "slow" lots of WC852 we know of today, were not around in the 1950's and '60s. Even though your powder is marked as "slow", I seriously doubt it is as slow as today's "slow" lots of WC852. Therefore, regular H-380 load data should be OK to use, but be sure to begin with the starting loads.