BP load for S&W 500 magnum pistols

[bugoutbicyclist]

Hello All. I'm new to reloading and hope y'all can provide some guidance here. I have a good supply of Pyrodex RS and lead for .501 balls. I was wanting to try some black powder loads for a pair of S&W PC 500 Magnum revolvers (John Ross design) Does anyone know if a case full of RS and a hand pressed .501 lead balls would exceed the cylinder pressure of a 500 Magnum (~60k psi). Does anyone know of a reference for pressure versus volume of RS powdered? I would use large rifle magnum primers in a Starline brass cartridge. Also should a wad be used between the powder and ball?

Thanks in advance for entertaining my request for information.

Regards,

BugOutBicyclist

[oldred]

You can not try Black Powder loads with Pyrodex, Pyrodex is not Black Powder and does not act like Black Powder. It loads, shoots and even looks/smells different than BP and although certainly not a problem with a S&W 500 it even has differing pressures and thus velocity than BP. If you want to try Black Powder loads you will need to get some Black Powder, what you are proposing is Pyrodex loads and they just are not the same -not even close except with the exception of a similar pressure.

As for the PYRODEX loads I can't see that being a problem done in the manner you describe with a setup designed for those pressures, after all this is a BP substitute powder that by it's very design is meant to produce low pressures. You can not get enough Pyrodex into that case to hurt anything AS LONG AS RECOMMENDED PROCEDURES are followed concerning compression, etc.

[bugoutbicyclist]

OK. Have Goex FF BP too stored. Guess my questions now are: What volume of Goex FF BP should I use in a metallic cartridge for a .50 caliber round ball load using Starline Brass. And how would the pressure be calculated by volume of BP?

[Red River Rick]

BB:

If you filled the case to the brim with 2Fg BP, compressed it enough to seat the ball, you'd be fine.

There's no way to get enough BP into a case to do any damage to that revolver. BP pressures wouldn't be high enough to do any harm.

FWIW.

RRR

[oldred]

What he said, stuff in all the BP that will fit and still allow the ball to be seated and you will fine, with a huge margin of safety in that gun! That may, or may not, be the most accurate load however so you may want to try starting with filling the case to the bottom of the projectile (whatever that may be, jacketed, cast, round, etc) and go from there, just be sure to fill all the space with powder even if you don't compress and don't leave any air space in the case at all. Sometimes there may be a lot of empty space with some smokeless loads but doing that with BP is a no-no otherwise you should be fine, fill up those cases, seat your bullet and go have fun!


BTW, be sure and use a BP lube since BP doesn't get along well at all with most lubes meant for smokeless.

[bugoutbicyclist]

OldRed and RRR, Many thanks for the advice. I'll try it soon. FYI - I emailed the powder manufacturers and Starline Brass and no one to date has every responded to this question. Thanks Again!

[bugoutbicyclist]

What he said, stuff in all the BP that will fit and still allow the ball to be seated and you will fine, with a huge margin of safety in that gun! That may, or may not, be the most accurate load however so you may want to try starting with filling the case to the bottom of the projectile (whatever that may be, jacketed, cast, round, etc) and go from there, just be sure to fill all the space with powder even if you don't compress and don't leave any air space in the case at all. Sometimes there may be a lot of empty space with some smokeless loads but doing that with BP is a no-no otherwise you should be fine, fill up those cases, seat your bullet and go have fun!


BTW, be sure and use a BP lube since BP doesn't get along well at all with most lubes meant for smokeless.
Thanks for the advice!

[bugoutbicyclist]

BB:

If you filled the case to the brim with 2Fg BP, compressed it enough to seat the ball, you'd be fine.

There's no way to get enough BP into a case to do any damage to that revolver. BP pressures wouldn't be high enough to do any harm.

FWIW.

RRR
Thanks RRR!

[longbow]

Take a look at .45-70 BP and Pyrodex load data. A .45-70 takes a 70 gr. powder charge under a 500 gr. boolit and does not come close to .500 S&W pressures.

A case full of either under a round ball is not going to hurt that revolver.

I recommend you use a lubed wad or grease cookie under the ball though or you will find that fouling will be very bad. You would be better off to use a collar button boolit with its generous "lube groove" filled with BP lube.

Do make sure you clean your brass right after shooting though or it will corrode badly and fail in short order. Also, if the gun is not stainless then it needs to be thoroughly cleaned after shooting as well.

Longbow

[oldred]

if the gun is not stainless then it needs to be thoroughly cleaned after shooting as well.

Cleaning is required regardless when shooting BP or Pyrodex (ESPECIALLY with Pyrodex!!!), a stainless gun does NOT negate the need for cleaning corrosive residue!!!!!!!!!!

[longranger]

Probably will not get much more than a cylinder fired before the gun fouls out so bad you can't double action and single action will be stiff.Then you have fouling all through the action, not good and hard to clean

[bugoutbicyclist]

LongRanger - Thanks for the advice and I agree. I'm just testing and developing a put away kit for just in case! Don't plan on doing this regularly. Can't tell what's going to happen in the near future.

[longbow]

Yes. you are right, all guns should be cleaned after use with BP but at least a stainless gun would still be usable if left gunked up then cleaned later where a carbon steel gun would likely be badly corroded and pitted bore.

[oldred]

FWIW, I have run a bunch of 357 cases loaded with BP though my Security Six without any real problems. After several rounds it starts to get "rough" (for lack of a better description), not really bad but enough to tell that something is amiss but it seems to hit a certain level and that's as bad as it gets. We can make BP if we have to so the idea was to find out ahead of time what I have that I could still use in a SHTF situation where ammo or loading components become unavailable, actually everything I own appears to function OK if not perfectly with the exception of my 1911 45 auto but I have never tried it with BP and probably won't.

I think there is a fella here on this site that shoots, or has shot, BP loads in a 1911 45 auto and apparently he was able to do so successfully.

[MT Chambers]

If you fill the case with real BP, it will be the safest load that revolver will ever see! Also the dirtiest!

[bugoutbicyclist]

Is there any issues with compressing the black powder in the case?

[Wayne Smith]

Is there any issues with compressing the black powder in the case?
No, in fact such loads often do better. GOEX likes some compression, Swiss a little less, from what I have read.

If you want to increase the powder burn give your round ball a good crimp. The orignial 45-70-405 round was crimped to delay bullet movement as the bullet did not have enough inertia to burn all the powder. The 520gr bullet was not, as it had enough inertia. Your round ball load will not have enough inertia to burn all that powder.

[bugoutbicyclist]

Many Thanks Wayne Smith!

[oldred]

Loose, compressed, all the BP you can cram into the case makes no difference from a safety standpoint and about the only way you could produce any real pressure with that combo would be to leave a lot of air space between the ball and the powder, not sure even that would hurt the gun you are talking about but I certainly wouldn't try it.