Educate me on "rolling blocks" please . . . Uberti .357 "mini" RB

[bedbugbilly]

No, I'm not a novice shooter and I know what a rolling block is . . . .

I'm looking at adding a single shot to play with. At first, I was interested in the "mini Sharps" but after reading of the problems with them (and it being made by Chiappa), I have "nixed" that idea.

I'm looking at the possible purchase of one of the Uberti "mini rolling block carbines". Uberti lists them in 30-30, 38-55 and 45-70. Taylor lists one in 357 Mag. and I am leaning hard in that direction for a couple of reasons.

I load and shoot both smokeless and BP and have a number of 38s & 357s. I tend to shoot my SA revolvers more than anything else these days. My latest purchase a while back was a Uberti 357 4 3/4" Bisley - I love it! I cast and load a wide variety of 38/357 boolit designs - i.e. I am "set up" for it and I think the .357 rolling block would be a good "partner' for my Bisley and 357 New Vaquero.

Since I want to load both smokeless and BP - the 357 is somewhat of a "no brainer" for me. I'm older, mainly shoot at 25 to 50 yards and really don't want to have to get set up with molds, brass, etc. for 38-55 or 45-70 - especially when I won't be shooting at longer ranges. I'm set up to load the 30-30 but I'd be limited to smokeless with that cartridge. O.K. - call me a wimp - but a 357 single shot would be a lot of fun for an old geezer and no real punishment as far as the cartridge goes like the bigger boy cartridges (38-55, 45-70, etc.)

I at one time, had an original Whitney rolling block in my collection that someone had started to turn in to a 25-20. Like an idiot, I sold it and now wished I had it.

O.K. - by educating me in the rolling block - I am curious for those that shoot BP in their RB rifles - how tricky is the "clean up". I have shot BP for over 50 years so am very familiar with clean up of rifled muskets, round ball guns, C & B revolvers, etc. My question pertains to the "clean up" of a rolling block action. Obviously the bore needs it but is there much "blow back" as far as fouling, etc. in to the action area? Is it necessary to take the action down to clean it thoroughly each time or can a good cleaning of areas you can get to take care of it? (I'm sure that a good once a year cleaning of the action broken down is in order).

Also, anybody have one of these Ubeerti "mini rolling blocks" (carbine) in 357? If so . . . your thoughts on them?

My shooting is pretty much limited to "plinking" now. I currently have a 357 Handi-Rifle - a good shooting rifle but I hate the heavy barrel and "modern" look of it - plus it's a pain to carry for an old geezer. The Uberti RB looks like it would be more comparable with a light weight .22 rifle - an easy carry. One of these looks like it would be a fun gun to play with in both smokeless and black powder with lead boolits. Yes . . . smaller and lighter but it would also make a good woods gun as well. I like the one that Taylors shows with the more tradition recent butt plate over the flat rubber butt on those shown on the Uberti site. Most of the time, I'd be shooting 38 specials and this little rifle seems like it would be a good "match" to go with a '72 open top that I hope to add at some point in the future as well.

Your thoughts on the cleaning process on a RB when used with BP as well as the carbine would be greatly appreciated.

[country gent]

I have no issues with cleaning Black powder from my rifles. I believe the cartridge guns are even easier than the muzzleloaders. I start at the range with windex (vinegar) a couple sprays down the barrel and brush 8-10 strokes with nylon or bronze brush. Then another spray of windex and patch dry. Normally 3 patch shows only very light grey streaks. This does till I get home. Then a brush wet with shooters choice 8-10 strokes and dry patches to clean. If leaded then its a little more time cleaning. I clean actions after the end of the season but rarley see alot of crud. One thing is finding the powder load and compression to get efficent burns and thus less fouling to start with. I do put a drop of oil ( breakfree) on sides of hammer and let run in for 10-15 mins then same with triggers. A good bullet lube helps alot with fouling control as it keeps the fouling soft and easier to work with. Once fouling gets hard and crusty you have your work cut out for you.

[wills]

Blow tube after every shot, 3 patches down the bore, wipe down the outside and you're done.

[bedbugbilly]

So far, my BP 38s/357 have worked well but that's out of my pistols. I use a lube I've been using for 50 years and it works well keeping the fouling soft. In fact, I just picked up a different 158 gr. RN mold - a 358-250 which has two deeper lube grooves in it than the 358-311 i've been using. My thoughts are that it might work better with the extra lube down a longer barrel. (I think the barrels are 22" on the Uberti RB?).

My main concern is the fouling as far as getting in to the action, around the hammer, internals, etc. on a RB? Or, does the chamber seal sufficiently that there isn't any blow back of the fouling? Of course I realize the exterior needs to be wiped/cleaned well as I have a habit of getting my hands pretty grungy with the fouling when shooting BP. Other than a good wipe down of the hammer, block, etc., is there much concern with the internals?

As I said, I have only had one RB which was an original Whitney. If I remember correctly, the face of the block makes squarely with the face of the breech. I'm assuming the case expansion in the chamber is what acts as a gas seal?

I pretty much have my BP loads "down" on the 38s/357. I don't use a cardboard or wad between the base of the boolit and the powder. I use 3F Goex (just because I have a good supply of it at this time - I plan on trying other brands IF I can find 'em on the shelf!). Let's face it, there is only so much BP that will go in a casing and compress. My loads have been very consistent out of pistol. I even load up 38 Colt Shorts and Longs once in a while with the BP just for fun.

Wills - I thought I would try a blow tube as I've read they work well. Also plan on having a "dedicated" wiping range rod for between shots.

Thanks.

[country gent]

Normally the case expands to seal the chamber. Why BPCR shooters anneal cases so often. I find very little fouling in the trigger groups when I do clean them. I do find dust various dirts and lints from the felt in rifle hard cases and old oils that are nasty.

[gunarea]

Hey Billy
Not sure of the mini designation but I have had an Uberti rolling block pistol for fourteen years now. First off, if you can get one, get it! On Cast bullet assn. I have a thread on my pistol and what got done to make it the shooter it is now. Since retiring, I haven't won any state titles. My little pistol has many state titles in a couple different divisions from several different shooting disciplines. Unfortunately it ain't the gun keeping us from recent championships. 50, 100 and 200 meter games only challenge me, the little gun delivers when the nut behind the trigger is in correct adjustment. In the 357 chambering, everything from round ball to a 212gr 35 REM bullet performs well. I have never pushed upper pressure limits due to the inherit weakness of the action. It is light and points like an index finger. As to cleaning, I am a retired certified gunsmith. My guns are always filthy.
If I knew how a picture was posted I would. I'll go see what the thread is called and make another post.
Roy

OK back with edit. The section is single shots. Original post was April 8, 2008. I didn't know how to work the confuser to post pictures then either.
142074

[Mk42gunner]

The only Rolling Block I have fired BP from is an 1879 Argentine in .43 Spanish. Clean up wasn't a problem, a bit more than a smokeless rifle, but not objectionable.

As I understand it, the mini RB carbines from Uberti are more or less copies of the Remington No. 2 RB action. I have one of these dainty little Remington's, it is almost small enough to classify as a boys rifle, but not quite. I really do not understand why they want to make these in real rifle calibers, the biggest cartridges Remington chambered them in during the 1800's was the .44-40.

If I came across an affordable one in .357, I would jump on it pretty quick.

Robert

[wills]

The first shot with new brass leaves the brass covered in soot. If you don’t resize your now fireformed case, there will not be gas leakage on subsequent shots.

If you want to shoot 38/357 in an old looking rifle, why not get a 73 Winchester?

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=027C&mid=534200

[bedbugbilly]

wills - the '73 Winnie is a great looking rifle for sure . . . .

If I was a lot younger - then maybe. Now . . . for the type of plinking I do, a single shot is sufficient. One contributing factor is . . . Uberti RB (Taylors) roughly $700 MSRP . . . Winchester 73 roughly $1,300 MSRP. I know it's like comparing apples to oranges but . . . . . LOL

No doubt the Winnie would be a lot of fun though. :-)

[BCRider]

Well, single shot rolling blocks and others like them are a whole different category of fun. While I love my lever rifles I like my single shot rifles equally as much for a totally other reason.

So I can certainly identify with your desire for the .357Mag single shot rifle. And the use of the smaller handgun cartridge if you're keen on avoiding longer walks to the more distant target stands :D

While sold under the Taylor's name I believe the maker of the handgun caliber rolling blocks is David Pedersoli. They list the carbine in a few common cowboy action handgun calibers.

I know that from the minimal stains on the cases I get with BP cartridges from shooting them from my lever rifle for cowboy action that there's very minimal blowback from black powder cartridges. And the very open nature of the breech end of the RB design means that any blowback you do have is mostly directed out into the open air. Only a small percentage of that small percentage that does blow back will find it's way into the guts of the gun.

You will want to break down the action now and then. But it'll be very infequent that you need to do such a thing. Like once every 300 to 400 rounds fired. And perhaps you'll find that it's not dirty enough to bother for out to more like 500 to 600. The oil in the action will hold some amount of fouling without risk of corrosion so it doesn't NEED to be torn down each and every time. Of course with some folks "need" has nothing to do with it and they break things down for cleaning regularly.

But if you're OK with leaving it alone until it's worth/needs doing how often you need to break it down fully will depend on how much you shoot. If you're like me that means you'll need to do it a couple of times early on but then it'll set into a routine and you'll likely only go through enough ammo to require the action is cleaned about twice a year or so. Too many other guns all asking for their turns to the range as well. The days are only so long.... :D

The other good news is that tearing down a RB for this sort of cleaning isn't so bad. There's no big surprises and the parts come out easily enough. In fact of all the single shot guns it's one of the easiest to break down for full access with no nasty surprises for putting back together. The simplicity of the design is truly elegant.

[rfd]

ah, the rolling block - my fave bpcr! my number one is a pedersoli bodine 34" in .45-70 and i only load with black powder. as probably already mentioned, rollers are easy to take down and clean out, the action is ambidextrous and she's purty darned strong.

for fouling control i prefer to wipe and not blow - for me, this is more consistent no matter what the climate. i use a solid delrin rod that has one end that's jag turned, one damp patch with the a 10% ballistol water mix down the tube is all i need, then dry out the chamber with a stick and clean patch, load and shoot. repeat as required. :)

there are LOTS of good (and not-so-good!) ways to address the cleaning of the brass, barrel, and action.

i clean the barrel with the 10% ballistol/water mix. i use a special bore guide delrin jag on a carbon fiber rod of my own creation, and tight patching to dissolve and push out the residue. doesn't take more than 4 to 6 patches, and then a few drying patches and a final patch with some break free and i'm done. i shoot weekly, and every other week i'll take the action apart for added cleaning - usually, there ain't much to clean.

immediately after firing, i deprime the brass and plop it into a gallon jug of water with a bit of dish soap in it. after shooting, i rinse off the brass and put 'em into the hornady 2L ultrasonic cleaner for 30 minutes (yep, not hours and super quiet) - this cleans them inside and out, and primer pockets too. i rinse off the cases and wipe off any residue inside and out. done. the brass looks brand new shiny inside and out. i'll add that it's Important that the brass is clean inside if loading with black powder, else case stretching or rupture can occur.

loading cartridges for bpcr may seem daunting and some make it into cult-like rocket science, but it doesn't hafta be that at all for good accuracy. match winning accuracy will require some load recipe and bullet testing, but that's all part of the fun of the game.

as i mentioned elsewhere, dixie gun works has an excellent price on a superb pedersoli roller in .40-65win, for $1200 - i'd buy it if i could! just add in a good soule vernier tang and spirit front globe and yer set to go ......

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/CR3250.JPG

i'll add - dunno about the roller you mentioned, but when it comes to recoil and bpcr, the simple addition of a butt pad (i use kick killer) totally tames any shoulder pounding. i have a a constant "frozen" right shoulder to begin with, and i can fire off 100 .45-70 full bp loads in a row with absolutely no shoulder issues or concerns. if the rifle is 10# or more, and the butt pad is a good one, don't even give nasty recoil a second thought.

on the bottom is my bodine, which now fair trades for a good $1900 - see how much it resembles the .40-65 version above?


http://i.imgur.com/k929PiG.jpg

[Bigslug]

Well, my experience has all been with Triple 7, but straightwall cartridge single shots all seem to run very clean as far as the breech end is concerned. The case puffs up and seals pretty well, allowing all the real crud to barf out the muzzle. The rolling block has the added advantage of showing you the breech face when you open it up, rather than the falling block approach where it dives into hiding. The remaining crevices shouldn't be anything you can't handle with a few minutes applying Q-tips, pipe cleaners, and a healthy dose of CLP.

The idea of a .357 in any of those period actions entices me greatly. I kicked the notion of it and a few more modern revolver rounds to Cimarron in the hopes of some expansion to their 1885 Low Wall line. They liked the idea. Whether they liked it ENOUGH is now the question. . . I'd take a .357 RB too if you wanna help nag. I ain't fussy.:lol:

[LIMPINGJ]

Just the other day I noticed Dixie Gun Works has the Pedersoli carbine in 44-40 and 45.

[wills]

Might try a Roller in a .32. They used to make them in .32 RF.

[enfield]

I wish I had one in 38-55, the only ones I have are .22 32SW 32-20 8x58 43SPANISH 44MAG 45-70 12.7x44R 50-70 28gage & 20 gage. It's a toss up between Rollers, old Marlin levers and BSA Martini's with me.

[rfd]

imo, a good roller in .45-70 can, and will, do it all - from meat to metal to paper, or in any or all order chosen,

[jlucke69]

I got lucky and picked up one of the Uberti 1871 357's. I love it. Very well put together gun. I added a peep and can hit anything I need to. Loaded with 38 specials, my 8 year will shoot it all day (with a little help holding it up.) I also have the 1871 in 22LR. Both handle well and are well put together.

[wills]

I wish I had one in 38-55, the only ones I have are .22 32SW 32-20 8x58 43SPANISH 44MAG 45-70 12.7x44R 50-70 28gage & 20 gage. It's a toss up between Rollers, old Marlin levers and BSA Martini's with me.

I was thinking much the same. If you wanted a new roller for a plinker, seems .38-55 would be just the thing.

[BCRider]

I'd tried a few big and heavy Sharps single shots in .45-70 and .45-90. And even with the "lighter" .45-70 I realized that my shoulder would be good for around a dozen rounds at most.

So when I tripped over an old milsurp Swedish rolling block that had been fitted with a Shiloh Sharps barrel in .38-55 it seemed like the way to go. From shooting it for a couple of years now this decision has been confirmed and reinforced many times over.

Despite all the nonsense with the lack of standardization in the .38-55 it's become my big bore of choice. I have not made up any short range light bullet plinking ammo but with a 250gn bullet it's hardly needed.

That said I'd love to have a .38Spl or .357Mag chambered carbine rolling block rifle. It would be a superb plinker at the range to go with my revolvers. And I'm constantly loading up that ammo by the bucket full. So no lack of ammo to shoot. So often as not my thoughts turn to the idea of one of the Pedersoli carbine rollers.

[rfd]

i have a perpetual "frozen" right shoulder that's sensitive to recoil. my prime bpcr rifle is a .45-70 pedersoli bodine roller that weighs 13#. that weight plus a kick killer acton butt pad allows me to easily shoot 100 rounds of black powder charged .45-70 cartridges with 532 grain bullets with no effects whatsoever. the key reasons for greatly reducing the effects of recoil are - a heavy rifle, a good recoil butt pad, and using black powder cartridges.