.45-70 Dies (shooting cast and jacketed)

[tinhorn97062]

When I first started loading .45-70, I grabbed a set of Lee dies with their FCD. I must say that their price-tag was a driving factor of choosing them, at that time. Here I am down the road a bit, with a little more knowledge, and it's become apparent that I should've went a different route.



The FL Sizing die sizes my brass to the min. spec (or max, depending on how you look at it). Point being, my brass is really small after sizing.
The seating plug was gripping my cast lead (350gr Laser Cast) and causing them to seat crooked
The Expander die only bells the mouth. Coupled with my really small (after sizing) brass, I'm trying to shove a .459 boolit into a .455 hole.
Every bullet I stick in there seats crooked, whether it be jacketed or lead. I modified the seating plug (filled with JB Weld). It now does not grip the bullets, but everything still seats crooked.


I have Lee dies for my .30-06 that work awesome. I run RCBS for 9mm...awesome. My press is RCBS and good quality. But those .45-70 dies just are not working for me.

All that said- I'm upgrading but am having trouble choosing between RCBS and Lyman. I shoot the following:



300gr JHP
350gr JFP
405gr JFP
Cast Lead sized .459 and .460 (.460 fits better)


The majority of things shot is cast lead, so I need dies that do well with fat diameter cast lead. I'd love to hear peoples' opinions on the RCBS (regular and cowboy) and the Lyman's.

-charlie

[MBTcustom]

I would look at Redding above all else.
After that I would look at RCBS.
Then Lyman.
If the above is not acceptable, I would look at getting a custom expander plug from NOE, and sticking with your current dies.

One thing I might mention is that you don't have to run the brass all the way into the die. Just enough to get the neck tension you like. That's one of the best parts of the 45-70 cartridge!

Personally, I only size about half way. Just enough to get a good firm tension on the bullet.
I flare the brass just enough to allow the bullet to seat without shaving.
This will go a long way towards helping to seat your bullets straight.

[tinhorn97062]

I would look at Redding above all else.
After that I would look at RCBS.
Then Lyman.
If the above is not acceptable, I would look at getting a custom expander plug from NOE, and sticking with your current dies.

One thing I might mention is that you don't have to run the brass all the way into the die. Just enough to get the neck tension you like. That's one of the best parts of the 45-70 cartridge!

Personally, I only size about half way. Just enough to get a good firm tension on the bullet.
I flare the brass just enough to allow the bullet to seat without shaving.
This will go a long way towards helping to seat your bullets straight.

Ive been doing a partial resize for a while now. It has helped some, but has not alleviated the issue. I flare the mouth just enough to get a boolit in past the bevel base (about 1/16") and seat with a series of partial strokes/turn casing/partial stroke. I still cannot get those things to go in straight. I've thought about getting a custom expander, but decided to just upgrade all together.

the more I read, the better sounding the RCBS set is.

[MT Chambers]

Redding or RCBS Cowboy dies.

[EDG]

You will probably be happy with a composite die set.

Get the custom expanders you need from Track of the Wolf, Buffalo Arms or that bullet mold maker that is recommended here. Those expanders are made for the Lee expander die body. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=expander

Almost any seater will work if you spin the case and bullet as you seat it - even that XXXXX old Lee.
I have tried the Lee and it does allow the bullets to tip when they are really short. The fault is the conical shape of the seating punch. That short silly cone will not straighten a short bullet with a large flat nose.

Some of the Lee seater problem is related to the sorry Lee expander.
Get some of the custom expanders that let you start the bullet about .100 deep with your fingers. Get the bullet straight with your fingers and even the Lee die can seat them right.
RCBS and Redding are not nearly as prone to cock a short bullet but both die sets have a much better expander. I have both but I can't really recommend one over the other. They both work well for me for jacketed bullets. For cast bullets get a larger expander and for larger expanders you either make your own or buy after market expanders.
If you get the Redding seater you may have to get a second seater punch. The long punch supplied with my dies would not back up enough to seat 500 grain bullets. In turn the short punch is not long enough to seat the short 300 grain bullets.

The truly superior seater is the Redding Competition Micrometer Seater made for the 45-70 but it is very expensive. You can get by without it but you will love using one.


Now for the Sizer.

The earlier RCBS sizers from the 1970s were very tight near the middle of the case to the base.
They are better now. The current Lee sizers are about the same size as the current RCBS dies according to my measurements.

Redding sizers are almost like a neck die though they do size the body. They do not size the neck down much more than one diameter (.450) past the case mouth. Redding does also make a neck sizer that does not even touch the body and sizes the neck down about .450 too.

Since you already have the Lee die you might try lapping the neck until it only sizes the case neck about .002 smaller than necessary.
Then set it so it does not size the body back but a tiny amount or none if you are shooting a single shot.
The 45-70 base is tapered so the sizing can be varied by changing the die setting.

Make sure all cases will chamber before you finish loading them.

I have RCBS cowboy dies in 40-65 and 38-55. The main difference is the expander is about .002 larger and the inside of the seater is a little larger for the fatter bullets.

[gwpercle]

1. Adjust your sizing die, back it out of the press until a resized case will not chamber, then turn it back in 1/4 to 1/2 turn, you want the resized case to just chamber, easily, and the neck to get sized enough to hold the boolit. So keep turning it in and/or out until you get it just right. Baby bear sized, This is called "partial sizing".

2. Adjust the fit of the seating plug to your boolit nose with a small ball of epoxy putty. If the boolit is a flat nose design, just use a flat seater. I used the 5 minute epoxy putty to make a flat seating plug and found it will seat round nose boolits just fine also .

3. Get a Lyman M-die, it works best for seating big cast boolits . BUT... if the boolit is leaning to one side when it goes into the seating die , it's going to come out messed up. Use the M - die , then make sure the boolits are started into the case as straight as you can get them. In straight - out straight ...most of the time.

Gary

[cajun shooter]

The Lee dies are better if you throw away the FCD die. I prefer the RCBS cowboy set because of the expander for the loading of cast bullets. I also use the Redding Profile crimp die with the RCBS set.

[flashhole]

Over the years I've tried several sets of 45-70 dies. The set I ended up with that works really well for me is:

Hollywood FL Sizer
Lee Powder-Through Expander - I love the powder-through feature because it holds the Lee funnel and I charge with a dipper.
Hollywood Seat Die
Redding Taper Crimp Die

Reading post number 3 makes be think you are not going deep enough with your expander die to get good alignment of the bullet to the case prior to seating.

If there were a "Like" button on goodsteel's post I would have pushed it.

[tinhorn97062]

Well, I ended up ordering a set of RCBS Cowboy dies. With the Lee dies, i was partial sizing just far enough to get neck tension. I modified the seater plug with JB Weld and made it flat. Very carefully starting the bullets as straight as I could, still yielded an off centered finished round. I use Lee for .30-06 (just loaded a batch a little while ago) with great success. So, I'm not bashing Lee at all- but the .45-70 dies just don't seem to work well in this case.

I appreciate peoples' input.