Help with new scrap - old lead organ pipes

[RegisG]

Getting back into casting, I've resolved to do better/cleaner. But, it looks like I will have to make some clean ingots to cast with.
Today I got 50# of lead in the form of old pipe organ pipes (so the scrap yard told me). Pitcher below:
This is what the pieces look like. I also picked up a pretty large tin/pewter bowl to mix in.
I can bend the longer ones pretty easy. Has anyone seen this before or other tips?
Is there any "watch-out-for" before melting? From this point, is it better to try to test hardness or melt and then check (I'll have to go buy a set of those hardness pencils to test). One thing, this looks a LOT cleaner as it sits than the Lyman#2 that I bought. I'll be looking around this site for pound for pound lead/tin starting mixes before doing any melting.

141825

Thank for any help you can offer
Regis

[mold maker]

Not personal experience, but I've been told the smaller organ pipe were nearly pure lead, while the bigger ones had tin purportionly added for strength. The longer and bigger, the more tin.
Just not what you find as scrap everyday.

[RegisG]

Excellent article PB. But, now it looks like I need to find out if I have a lot of zinc. Hopefully not since I only have smaller pipes.
Regis


RegisG,

mold maker is correct in that the larger the pipe, the more tin it contains. Surprisingly, some pipes were pure tin and some pure zinc. Trace elements may include aluminum,antimony, bismuth, copper, and silver.

Here is a link with some information about organ pipes: Organ Pipe Metallurgy (http://www.hevanet.com/dibblee/pipe_metallurgy.pdf). The bit about "spotted metal" was interesting and gives a visual clue of a pipes tin content.

PB

[jsizemore]

A drop of muriatic/HCl acid will tell if you have zinc.

[RegisG]

I have some muriatic acid. How will I tell? Change color? Make hole?
Regis


A drop of muriatic/HCl acid will tell if you have zinc.

[DLCTEX]

Zinc will fizz and bubble with muratic acid applied.

[turtlezx]

they wouldnt be bending that easy if they were zinc

[Buck Neck It]

You scored! Like buying 50# of solder. If there is more you should go back and grab it, don't let them make batteries out of it.

[RegisG]

I cast some muffin pan ingots and weighed them

Sheet lead - 1lb 14.9 oz & 2lb 1.5ox
Organ pipe - 1lb 14.3 oz and 1lb 12.4oz (slightly smaller)

With that close of weights, I don't think the organ pipes can be zinc.
I don't have hardness tester "yet" but, #2 pencil easily groves the sheet lead ingot but is a bit harder to grove the organ ingot.

Regis

[Buck Neck It]

You can't groove zinc with even a 4h pencil, you can groove 50/50 solder with a #2 pencil. It takes a lot of heat to melt zinc, you would notice the difference.

If this were my problem (I wish!), I would use a lead thermometer and note the solidus and liquidus temperatures, and compare them with the information on a lead-tin diagram. I would also pour some bullets and use them to measure the specific gravity of your material.

A lead tin diagram can be easily found on google. A description of how to do a specific gravity test can be found on this forum, using the search function. Good luck!

[Char-Gar]

I can't tell you the content of the metal, but I can affirm those are organ pipes. I have done a few "organ crawls" where you go into the ranks of organ pipes, and dem are organ pipes!

[RegisG]

I have a thermometer on order.

Thank you for those tips. I will do them.

Regis



You can't groove zinc with even a 4h pencil, you can groove 50/50 solder with a #2 pencil. It takes a lot of heat to melt zinc, you would notice the difference.If this were my problem (I wish!), I would use a lead thermometer and note the solidus and liquidus temperatures, and compare them with the information on a lead-tin diagram. I would also pour some bullets and use them to measure the specific gravity of your material.A lead tin diagram can be easily found on google. A description of how to do a specific gravity test can be found on this forum, using the search function. Good luck!

[lancem]

I got a whole set of organ pipes years ago from a guy that knew that cast. Didn't know then what I know now and just mixed them in with the 500# of WW that I had acquired. I'm casting with it now and I think there is quite a bit if tin in the mix. Going to have to break down and get a hardness tester and see if I could lighten up the mix some.

[sargenv]

I bought some organ pipe lead from a gent here when I was starting out.. Some of it was 18% Tin/82% lead, some was 9% tin, 91% lead. He'd gotten it from a large organ that the place was scrapping out. So it could go either direction...

[RegisG]

Interesting. That is very exacting measurement. Did you have some special metal analysis equipment or is there a simpler way to get that good of analysis?
Thanks,
Regis


I bought some organ pipe lead from a gent here when I was starting out.. Some of it was 18% Tin/82% lead, some was 9% tin, 91% lead. He'd gotten it from a large organ that the place was scrapping out. So it could go either direction...

[runfiverun]

some organ pipes are 100% tin.
some are extruded lead and antimony. [newer stuff]
older ones were lead and tin, the tin provided the stiffness and also helped the lead resonate.

[RegisG]

Well I did get a set of drawing pencils and checked hardness with them.
The organ tubes were at H
The Lyman #2 were HB (help reassure me that my process was ok)
The sheet lead was indeed 6B

Thermometer is due in next week but it looks like I could add a little of the pure lead to the organ tubes and match the Lyman #2. I don't know though, if it fills bullet mold well, then I might just find out how it shoots.

Regis

[Bigslug]

These crazy times have me so conflicted. I usually have my hunchbacked assistant play Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D Minor to establish the proper mood while I cast boolits up on the ramparts during lightning storms, but the gradual disappearance of lead wheelweights has me concerned that I may ultimately have to forgo my tunes, slag down the pipe organ, and lay off Igor. It's deeply troubling. . .the man has a large family of little mutants to support.;-)

I have found it interesting to learn during my time here that organ pipes do seem to be a pretty commonly encountered source of bullet metal. Not ever having been a churchgoing sort, I'm pretty ignorant of that class of instruments, but it seems like something that, once installed, wouldn't get moved very often, and wouldn't be terribly subject to damage. It certainly isn't something that would wear out, so how is it that organ pipes show up in the caster's bin?:confused:

[Bigslug]

I'll go ask Froederick.

[mold maker]

The only organ pipes I have ever had access to as scrap, were from a burned out church. The tops of all the pipes had either melted or sagged into a mass that penetrated everything beneath them. It was too dangerous to spend the labor to get it out. After smelting the little I got, it was very high in tin content, close to pewter.