The Boolit for 1917's

[guicksylver]

Ok So I am excited.

I have had this pristine 1917 Eddystone I have been trying to get to shoot.

Although all the excellent info I have been given by people on this site has
helped tremendously with my 1903a3 and 1903,(thank you guys, I now expect and get, 5/8-1" groups with
several boolits in those rifles), applying the same techniques to the 1917 has really not done much to improve it until now.

Many have said shooting cast boolits is as much magic as science.

Well this must be the magic part.

I tried all the boolits that should have worked,314299,312284.407Mod, 311332,314466,ect.
all sized .313

With nothing else to loose I tried the NOE 315.

This boolit out of my mold and alloy drops @ 3115-312 and weighs about 173.3 grs. on average.

I gas checked them and ran them through the .313 push through sizer, lubed with LLS 50/50 and lightly coated with Ben's Liquid Lube.


I decided to try 18grs of 2400 ( proven 5/8"@ 100 yds in my Springfields) , I used LC Match brass NS to a I.D. of .310

and light with CCI Large Rifle primers.

Now remember this boolit only mikes @ 311+ or so at its base, but prepped its gas check is .313.

I seated them at 3.140 O.A.L.

Last Saturday I took this combo to the range and shoot a 1" group @ 100,
so I loaded some more up.

Paying better attention to what I was doing and came up with this,YES!

BTW my 1917 sports a Parker Hale 5b rear and Lyman front Globe otherwise stock,
with original 1918 barrel. a TE and ME of under .5

141818

[Char-Gar]

OK... now go back and shoot 5 consecutive 10 shot groups and come back with the pics. That is what it will take to arouse my WOW factor. One five shot group tells nothing.

I am not trying to rob you of your joy, just injecting a note of reality.

[guicksylver]

No offence taken.

Actually expected it.

Especially from one of my "mentors".

If I had had 10 rnds I would have done so.

( Can I add those from the other day?)

The problem I have with 10 Rnds is me.

Interesting though I have shot four consecutive 5 shot groups 3/4" or less with my 1903a3.


Again I will give it a try,HONEST !

[country gent]

I will agree with ythat one 5 shot group is a start ( could be a fluke or luck). 5 5shot groups fired over several diffrent days gives a much better idea. 20 5 shot groups fired over several months tells alot. Documenting and tracking a rifles accuracy over period time and conditions gives a much better insight into its performance evryday and what to expect from it.

[gwpercle]

I'm impressed.....be excited...
Reality isn't all it's cracked up to be....I've heard it said , reality sucks.
You doing good...
Gary

[Char-Gar]

No offence taken.

Actually expected it.

Especially from one of my "mentors".

If I had had 10 rnds I would have done so.

( Can I add those from the other day?)

The problem I have with 10 Rnds is me.
.

Interesting though I have shot four consecutive 5 shot groups 3/4" or less with my 1903a3.


Again I will give it a try,HONEST !


Unless we have a machine rest, or hire some iron nerved dude to shoot for us, we all have the "me" problem. That is a factor is all of our shooting.

As some wise man once said, "There are no fluke 10 shot groups". Ten shot groups are the gold standard. They are also the ones that tell us what our rifle and load will do.

I have a very good 1903A3 and two good Model 1917s. If the stars are properly aligned, my shooting Karma is in good shape, I have not had too much coffee, my wife is not POed at me, the light is right and the wind is still, I can manage 1.5 MOA ten shot groups from these rifle. But most often 2 MOA are more normal. Some days, at 2.5 MOA group would be a god send. The difference is not the rifle or the load, it is me.

Keep up the good work....

[DougGuy]

I'd get a load like that worked up and the remainder of a 10 shot group might take me a couple of years to finish, but my freezer would be full!! :bigsmyl2:

[guicksylver]

Chat gar. I know of what you speak. For over 7 years I was one of the top 5 shooters in our 22 bullseye shoots. To be great and on top of the game every Monday at 7 was almost impossible.

[Char-Gar]

Chat gar. I know of what you speak. For over 7 years I was one of the top 5 shooters in our 22 bullseye shoots. To be great and on top of the game every Monday at 7 was almost impossible.

I have done allot of competition shooting with got rifle and handgun over the years. One a good day, I was a match for anybody on the line and we would duke it out for 1st. and 2nd. place. However most days were not my good days and I would have to settle for 3rd. or even (gulp) 4th place.

The difference between champions and guys like you and I are that champions are consistent and don't have off days. As a fellow with a butt load of German DNA, I admire the folks who have the grit, determination and concentration to be champions. But I guess my English/Welch DNA has to kick in from time to time.

The bottom line is my goal has been to become a better and better rifleman and not a load and rifle tester. The whole equation is the man, the rifle and the load, they are a unit and all three have to do their part.

[atr]

hey,,,ignore the carping,,
thats good shooting no matter how you cut it
atr

[tomme boy]

That's a good group, but, why is you 0.315" mould dropping so small??? I'm surprised it is shooting that well for the amount it is bumping up to fill the bore.

[Char-Gar]

hey,,,ignore the carping,,
thats good shooting no matter how you cut it
atr

Let me see now...I guess everybody gets a trophy for participation also. Let's just celebrate every thing anybody does. Cup cakes and ice cream all around, is the way to go.

Slaps on the back for one good group isn't what people need to do their best. Encouraging people to not rest on their laurels, but to push on to better things is not carping.

One good five shot group is nice, but in the scheme of things is insignificant. Now go on and do something significant. When you are shooting regular 2 MOA ten shot cast bullet groups out of a rack grade US Model 1917, that is something to celebrate. When you are shooting regular 1.5 ten shot cast bullet groups out of the same rifle, it is time to cake and ice cream. When you turn in some ten shot 1 MOA groups it is time to break out the Scotch. When you turn in a sub MOA ten shot group, it is time to break out the good Scotch.

When I was a young shooter my mentors were a bunch of older riflemen who has worn the roads smooth from Deep South Texas and Camp Perry Ohio smooth before the War. They were quick to help and encourage me, but didn't do back flips over something insignificant. Encouragement doesn't meeting celebrating the trivial.

I learned the riflecraft from range shooters and not keyboard shooters. I learned the Cowboy trade from old time hard Cowboys who would not tolerate sloth and laziness. I learned how to try a case in court from older Lawyers who would hand you your guts on a silver tray if you didn't do you best. To the best of my knowledge, in the world of Texas men, the insignificant is not high five worthy.

Carping it is not. Perspective it is. So suck it up cupcake and quit passing out cheap plastic trophys.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

With O3-A3 2 groove barrels where the lands occupy a large percentage of the circumference of the bore and 1917 5 groove barrels where again the lands make up a large percentage of the bore circumference, Col. Harrison of NRA fame wrote that the best bullet design for .30 caliber would be one that had a long nose and a short bullet body....such as Lyman 311334, 311332, the old RG-4, or the Saeco 301, etc. In this configuration the long nose is positively guided by the lands. It is important though that (as he stated) that the diameter of the nose be .301 and the diameter of the bullet body be .310. Undersize bullets whether nose and/or body will tilt in the bore and exit the barrel in a cockeyed posture resulting in wild shooting. You can read Harrison's article findings/work in the NRA Handloading Book which is located in the Cast Pics reference section. LLS

[44man]

There is something about the 1917! Pete has one and one day at his club he dumped a huge box of rounds on the bench, said he just wants to get rid of them. Had WWII surplus and all kinds of old hand loads. We shot for hours, mostly off hand at 100, at small stones. Open sights. I don't remember either of us ever missing, the darn gun shot everything and anything.
I would love to pry it away from him.

[Char-Gar]

There is something about the 1917! Pete has one and one day at his club he dumped a huge box of rounds on the bench, said he just wants to get rid of them. Had WWII surplus and all kinds of old hand loads. We shot for hours, mostly off hand at 100, at small stones. Open sights. I don't remember either of us ever missing, the darn gun shot everything and anything.
I would love to pry it away from him.

Compared to the 1903 or 1903A3 the U.S. Model 1917 is a beast. I has two inches more barrel length about one inch more of stock length, more steel in the action and a bunch more over all weight. They are an infantryman's nightmare, but these same features, plus a better rear sight make it a delight on the rifle range.

Following WWI, the Army tried fielding them as National Match rifles, but after a season or two found they were not quite a accurate as the 1903 Springfield. Even though the difference might have been slight, in high level target competition, the difference was significant enough to kick the beast off the target line.

Back in the days 1917s were sold for $25.00 each when 1903s were going for $35.00 to $40.00 each. I had several at that price, but sold them down river due to their beastness. Now that I am in my golden years, I have much more appreciation for them and have two in my gun rack. I like them allot.

I have an all original Winchester with the 1918 barrel and a Remington that was rebuilt during WWII at San Antonio Arsenal and wears a 2 groove Johnson Automatics barrel.

[Doc Highwall]

quicksilver, are your gas checks copper and have you tried annealing your gas checks? Annealed gas checks have no spring back and will come out closer to the bullets sized diameter when sizing. The annealed gas checks will also allow easier sizing with less distortion on the bullet.

[Thin Man]

Rats! I read the thread title and thought we were talking about S&W and Colt 1917 revolvers. OK, so I still learned more detail about the bolt rifles and will put it to use. Thank you.

Thin Man

[Char-Gar]

Rats! I read the thread title and thought we were talking about S&W and Colt 1917 revolvers. OK, so I still learned more detail about the bolt rifles and will put it to use. Thank you.

Thin Man

Oh, you mean these thingies. I guess we can talk about them also.

[guicksylver]

WELL.....AIN'T THIS INTERESTING. The real reason I post this was because I could not und r stand why the boolit should work at all. Dropping @ 311 and sizing @ 313 it should wobble. Maybe my grove dia. Is smaller than I think. Original 1918 barrel it should be .311+.BY The way that is not the only group like that it shot. Three days before it did the same thing. For some reason I am attracted to these 1917's. And yes I too remember having my choice of many fotb $25.00. However the smith coronas @ $ 35.00 were turning my head. We had a guy coming by about once a week with boxes of 10. Think I was making about $3.50 an hour then. So anyways back to work on the puppy and see if I can get her to brhave. Thanks for the replies guys . O h and support. Keep em flying.

[MUSTANG]

Rats! I read the thread title and thought we were talking about S&W and Colt 1917 revolvers. OK, so I still learned more detail about the bolt rifles and will put it to use. Thank you.

Thin Man

I have a Brazilian Contract revolver; U.S. .45 Hand Ejector Model of 1917 in addition to my 1917 rifle. The Brazilian Contract .45 revolver has a barrel that inside resembles a sewer pipe, and accuracy when shooting hard ball is marginal. What is interesting, is that I found that a Lee 250 grain wad cutter made it a tack driver at 25 yards. The Lee wad cutter is a boolit that normally would not seem to be viable, but with this revolver it works great. Have not had it out of the safe in several years, I should get it out and shoot it some this summer.

[guicksylver]

Excellent question , I am going to cast some more today, using 2.5-5.5-92 alloy and see if I can not bump up the base size.

When I bought this mold from NOE I expected it to cast larger ( at least an honest 312) as all his previous molds do.

As a side note it seems like the last two molds I got from him do not cast over size with harder alloys than WW.