Calling for Help .. broken 8/32 tap

[Smoke4320]

Doing a Mosin trigger Job .. done many in the past ..Drill thru top of trigger and install a 8/32 set screw...First time I have broken a tap
its a older sears 8/32 tap.. so its hardened.. Broken clean at the top of the hole ..
Hole is a pass thru and bottom of tap is sticking out hole approx. 1/8" .. but boxed by trigger
I have never tried to remove a broken tap and don't have any idea how..
All I have is a cheap drill press and an arc welder
anyone good at this willing to help me out .. Tips , ideas or I will pay you if you can get it out and leave the treads
Thanks

[country gent]

You can try but you dont have alot of leeway to work with. First get all the chips and swarf cleaned out of the hole and from around the tap. With a very small punch and light hammer just tap on the center of the tap ligtly, you doont want heavy blows just the vibrations to help to loosen it. With a small pick try tapping at an angle to back it out be very carefull and patient working slowly. If there end is stricking out and you can get to it with a dremils cutoff wheel cut a slot and try a screwdriver to back it out. Other wise it a job for an edm plunger machine.

[pietro]

.

If the tap is proud of the trigger, I would suggest you apply a liberal amount of Kroil and then use a pair of jeweler's needle nose pliers on the protruding section of the broken tap.

Just let the oil soak in, warm the piece a bit, then grab the tap in/by the flutes with the nose of the jeweler's pliers.

Work it back and forth until you can get a quarter turn room, then work out slowly.

I've heard that, since taps are hardened/brittle, one might be able to be broken up with a small, hammer-driven drive pin & the pieces picked out of the hole - but I've never tried it.


.

[oldred]

Don't try to take it out from the bottom using the protruding part, you might use that to start it back in the other direction but it likely still has threads to cut in order to take it all the way through from the bottom side.

These work great and I keep a set for this very eventuality,

http://www.waltontools.com/products/remvtap.htm

You can buy a whole set for a little over $100 or just a particular size you need for less than $20, check on Ebay for the best prices. If this is something you intend to do on a regular basis (that particular job, NOT breaking taps!) or just expect to do on occasion then 20 bucks or so might be good insurance.

MSC is about the most expensive place around and those things are not expensive even from them,

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/05014162?src=pla&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test&CS_003=7867724&CS_010=05014162

[big bore 99]

If you chip or crack the tap, it's over. EDM ran even is tricky.

[Pipefitter]

Adjustable spring loaded punch, start easy and try to work it out counter-clockwise. Lots of penetrating oil will help.

[leebuilder]

Two other ways
heat till orange/white hot, close off gas and blast with oxyegen, burn it out.
done this with bigger taps but may work, weld a nut to it, work out slowly.
Worked for me in a pinch.
be well

[smokeywolf]

If it's a 2 flute tap the broken tap extractors may work. Sometimes surgical forceps will allow enough grip to little by little wiggle the tap free. As previously suggested, clean the particulate away and use Kroil or the equivalent.

[hot diggity]

I've had good success with an electric engraver. Apply light pressure in the desired direction and the vibrations do the work like a tiny jackhammer.

HD

[Char-Gar]

Carbon steel taps will shatter, High Speed Steel (HSS) taps will give you much more problems if broken.

It is too late now, but you back the tap out and remove the chips ever two turns or so. If you wait until it sticks or squeaks, you may have a real problem on your hands.

Turning a tap free hand often allows the tap to cant in the hole, again causing problems. I use an old B-Square tap wrench with a sliding guide rod that goes in the drill press chuck. The work piece in in the drill press vice and there is not danger of the tap going in crooked. Set up takes a couple of minutes, but there are no broken taps, if the chips are removed frequently.

[oldred]

If it's a 2 flute tap the broken tap extractors may work. Sometimes surgical forceps will allow enough grip to little by little wiggle the tap free. As previously suggested, clean the particulate away and use Kroil or the equivalent.

Good point about the two flute, I was not thinking about how small that tap is when I suggested the tap removers and it might be questionable for that particular job depending on the tap. Those things do work great and have saved my bacon a few times buy fortunately I have yet to need one for a tap that small, maybe I am a bit more careful with the really small ones?

[Smoke4320]

its a four flute tap so no real room to get anything between the flutes.. tried to gently tap it out with a punch .. no go its stuck good .. I was almost done .. probably 2 turns left .. was using plenty of cutting oil and no squeeks
Wife said something to me about payroll and snap it went..

[country gent]

THe draw back to distegrating the tap is it can and does damage the threads depending on part and or how much it takes to break out the tap. The edm is a much better way to go once chips are cleaned out an electrode just big enough to clear the web good and run thru center. I used a square electrode to get the widest amount of the web removed ( a round leaves corners almost toucching). Once you break thru the threaded portions can be removed with a pick and lifted out with hemostats. Set up is the big issue with any form of machining to remove the tap. With bigger taps and broken bolts a hex electrode and allen wrench worked good also. Youd be surprised how much you can wrench on a 1/8" allen wrench when you sink the hex in .300-.350 deep into the broken part. The trick with the ed is to remove only the web then removing flutes in one long piece. On 8x32 it might be able to be drilled with carbide but will really be tricky to do.

[MBTcustom]

If you have access to a good tight mill, you can get it out in no time with 3/32" carbide endmills.
High speed, and light pressure is the name of the game, and knowing how to get out of there when the endmill punches through and breaks (yes it does. Almost every time).
The endmills are used for circuit board manufacturing and are available on eBay for reasonable money. It's the only way I have found to get it done right every time.

Other than that, you could just cut to the chase with one of these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/559350/timney-trigger-mosin-nagant-1-1-2-to-4-lb-steel-matte

[roverboy]

Goodsteel, I may have to try that trick sometime. We break'em at work sometimes. Some of the parts I make get tapped with 8/32, and sometimes they'll break. Smoke4320, I hope you get it out, easily. Good luck.

[doc1876]

I have had good luck with left hand twist drill bits. As the drill press is rotating backwards, it unscrers the offending part

[bangerjim]

My thoughts and prayers are with you, bud! I have never broke a drill or tap...ever, but others I know have and it is a real beach getting them out. Carbide will drill it but will break due the uneven cutting that will go on with the tap. And you need a solid milling machine and milling vice to hold the carbide drill and piece. The end sticking out has not finished threads so you will never get it out that way. (assuming you were NOT using a bottom tap) Has to come out the top. Punching it will only expand the tap and wedge it in the hole tighter.

With the experiences I have helped others with this situation............we made a new piece and forgot about getting the tap out! May be you only route, especially that small a thread!

Good luck. Let us know how you fair!

banger

[smokeywolf]

I've broken 4 or 5 taps in my 35 years of machining. Only once scrapped the part. Usually it's 6-32 taps that break the easiest. They remove more material relative to the mass of the tap. One or two taps that I broke were in titanium or hastelloy, both went into the acid which dissolved the tap but didn't touch the titanium or hastelloy. You can only get away with that when the tap is stuck in a highly corrosion resistant material.

[Petrol & Powder]

I hate to be the negative guy that isn't getting with the original request but for crying out loud what does a Mosin trigger cost?

Get another one !

[leeggen]

Goodsteel's web sight has it at 102 dollars. Larger taps are easier to remove. Small taps are just tricky and with ALOT of luck you can get them out. Not to be negative but if it snapped you are in deep dooo. It now becomes time of removal to cost of replacement. Trying to shater it is probably not going to work cause te small fragments imbed in the steel and most likely won't be removed. The mill is the best choice if you have access to one. Never allow anyone to interupt you when tapping 8-32 or smaller holes the distraction will cause you to break the tap usually. Myself I would now go by a new trigger set, maybe someone on here has an extra one cheap. Sorry for your misfortune, good luck.
CD

[Vann]

I'd either drill it out with a carbide drill bit or set a nut on the end and weld it to the broken stub.

Being that there is 1/8" of tap protruding you shouldn't have any problems welding a nut to it. I've done this many times and it usually works well.

[docone31]

I snapped two taps in a reciever once installing a Williams peep sight.
I took my Foredom and handpiece, with a diamond burr, cut off one cutter. The next one went a little easier as the space in the tap was larger. Once I got the second vane off, I was able to back turn out the broken piece.
If you use a burr small enough you will not damage the threads you have cut.
The sad thing is, my eyes are not new and the reciever sight was hard to use where it was not 30yrs ago. I went back to a scope.
Getting older means changes.
Diamond burrs need speed to turn. The HS tap will damage it. No way around this unless you have a speed multiplier. If none is available, just go lightly with lots of oil.

[MT Gianni]

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/MosinNagant-33398/1891-37429.htm $10.49 + shipping if you can't get it out.

[LAGS]

I was drilling a Mosin trigger years ago to install a set screw to make it adjustable.
Had the tap break off just like you did.
I just heated the whole trigger untill it was almost red hot, and was able to work the tap out before the trigger cooled all the way.
Then I finished tapping it, then Rehardened the trigger first by oil quenching, then Kasinit on the wear surfaces.
Back in those days, like in 1977, You could not find Mosin parts everywhere like you can today.
If it ever happens again, I will just order a new trigger.

[Petrol & Powder]

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/MosinNagant-33398/1891-37429.htm $10.49 + shipping if you can't get it out.

That's what I'm talking about.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You are in the realm of "it's better to be lucky than good."

I have removed many broken taps in my 30 years in the shop. On my best day it is a 40% shot. All of the ways above need to be tried, however I doubt you will be able to weld a nut to anything that small.

I have a prick punch made from a 3/16" drill blank with a very fine point. Chuck in a Drill motor and grind accordingly. It is my go to tap removal tool, and I try to back the tap out, or shatter it.

However if it is stuck in there it ain't comin' out no matter what you do so you might as well just set it aside and buy a different part.

When I tap things that matter I always use some kind of guide or do it in a Mill. Having the tap angled even a minute amount loads one side harder than the other and this is the root of the vast majority of Tap Breakages.

By doing it in the mill you have perfect location and perfect alignment. You will notice that most all Chuck Type Tee Tap Handles have a center drilled hole in the end. You put a center in the drill chuck and into the end of the tap handle and it maintains alignment. Then all you do is turn the handle gently with two fingers.

The easiest way to get a tap out is to not break it is the first place. Some Super Hootie tapping fluid is recommended as it reduces the surface tension of the metal and makes the metal cut easier.

You need everything going for you when tapping holes by hand.

If I was you I'd toss the ruined part and get another one. Shouldn't be that expensive. You ain't gonna get that tap out unless you have direct access to God himself and he likes you on that day.

Wish there was more encouraging words I could give you, but sometimes you've just got to admit you got beat.

I've thrown hundreds of parts in the trash or more properly at walls for this very reason. Luckily this part is small so it shouldn't hurt the wall that much.

Randy

[oldred]

When I tap things that matter I always use some kind of guide or do it in a Mill.

[Having the tap angled even a minute amount loads one side harder than the other and this is the root of the vast majority of Tap Breakages]

By doing it in the mill you have perfect location and perfect alignment.Randy


Exactly! And for gosh sakes if doing this freehand at least use a proper Tee handle for taps and never attempt to hold a tap with a wrench or Vise Grips! I think that most of the tap breakage in our shop was due to use of improper tap holding tools and this was in a welding shop where we were often using much larger taps. By using pliers/Vise Grips or a wrench it's literally impossible to start and/or drive a tap straight, that drive method however accounts for a lot of broken taps!


As you point out removing a broken tap can be an extremely frustrating experience and often as not with these very small taps it ends up being an exercise in futility unless the part can be held in a mill and drilled with carbide tooling and even then on one that small it get's a bit "iffy" sometimes. The problem is due to the same reasons it broke in the first place, the threads are going to be extremely tight and very often mechanically locked due to chips being wedged in the threads and it's a rare situation where a person is going to be able to apply as much torque backing the thing out as it took to break it in the first place.

Those tap removal tools are the best method I have used but unfortunately on a tap this small they aren't likely to be of much help.

[Smoke4320]

Thanks for all the tips ..
I have tapped many a hole .. always gone slow and cant remember ever breaking one before ..
This one is toast .. tried several of the suggestions.. its stuck good ..
Now one to Lowes to get concrete patch... Floor has a semi large hole in it :) :)
Probably going to order a M39 trigger
again thanks for all the suggestions

[smokeywolf]

oldred, can't tell you how many times I've loaned a T-tap handle to some guy trying to use a vice grip or crescent wrench to run a tap into a too small hole in a piece of stainless.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have used a Dremel with a small diamond burr to remove a 6-48 tap. It is a very slow, very careful process, but it can be done. A 'new' Mosin trigger is probably the most time and cost effective.

[KCSO]

If you are frinedly with your dentist ask him for some of his used bits. These are carbide and with a dremel tool you can chuck up one of these and eat out a broken tap in short order. If you have false teeth and still need help PM me and i will mail you a couple.

[country gent]

Several things are important to tapping a hole successfully and the deeper the thread goes the more important these become. A true round straight hole is a big plus. A oval hole or one where the drill wandered is much harder to tap. A solid accurate set-up to locate and support the tap. Alot of machinistsand tool makers put the tap in the drill chuck ( drill press or mill) put machine in nuetral and turn by hand I have a rod to fit drill chucks key hole to aid with bigger taps. Clear chips often when hand tapping not just the token back and forth but make sure the chips are clear with air. A good quality cutting fluid this is not universal diffrent materials do better with diffrent fluids. At work we had a drill press set up with a tapping head just for tapping holes. There was a low pressure low volumne oiler set up with it. This set up and machine made tapping alot of holes or even just a few much more enjoyable. ( we might have a couple hundred 8X32s to tap in a job. or a set of angle plates would mean a bunch of 1/4 X 20s to tap these went quickly and smoothly normally with just 2 or 3 taps). Taps are hard and thus brittle they have great strength but little resistance to bending. By having the solid supported square set up with true holes the bending and flexing is greatly reduced

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Was it the military trigger you were modifying? As others have suggested, buying another may be the most economical answer.

Tap extractors or modified needle-nose pliers could be worth trying on an expensive or irreplaceable part, such as the receiver ring. They might work if the tap has broken due to accidental application of sideways force, but I doubt if they would when a tap breaks because it was too tight. Reasons for the tightness could include peculiarly hard steel, a blunt tap, too small a tapping hole, or reaching the bottom.

an inexpensive part, or one in which it is feasible to tap to the next size up if the threads are much damaged, I would try the hammer and punch. The chances are that the threads will be fine when it the tap is broken out. Where we are talking of a situation in which you really can't afford damage, the EDM machine sounds good, although I've never used one. Alternatively could temporarily epoxy in place a piece of metal with a hole, to keep that carbide burr from skidding off the central part before it is flattened off.

Another possibility would be the Dremel tool of flexible shaft and a tapered carbide or diamond burr. Diamond is best with the part held in water or other coolant. You wouldn't do it with water spraying on the Dremel, would you? No, nobody would.

If it is a through hole with access from the rear, and you can anneal a carbon tap (possibly rehardening the part afterwards), you can probably get a metal-piercing fretsaw blade through one flute, and saw through the web.

When you buy taps, it is always best to go for the three flute variety. Unlike four, it will be loosened as soon as you manage to cut through one of the webs.

[oldred]

Can't tell you how many times I've loaned a T-tap handle to some guy trying to use a vice grip or crescent wrench


How many times have we seen, and heard the recommendation, to just drive an appropriate size nut onto the tap square drive so that a socket/ratchet or wrench can then be used? This "Clever" little trick has caused a great many broken taps and a lot of frustration, if that tap had been meant to be used with a wrench or socket it would come with a hex head on it! There simply is no way a tap can be correctly started or driven with an off-set drive like that, heck it's hard enough with the proper Tee handles with even leverage!

[Andrew Mason]

small carbide drill bit, I typiclay use 1/8" bit,
spin It at a minimum 1,000RPMS and it will cut the tap like butter

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you really are stuck for a tap wrench, a drill chuck, if not too heavy, is at least symmetrical. for scope screws even a pin chuck may provide enough turning force.

[Cap'n Morgan]

If you should ever break a tap in a more expensive part like a receiver or barrel, find a tool & die shop with an EDM hole drilling sinker. It will make short work of your tap in less than a minute. (Some of the fancy ones will burn a hole through four inches of hardened steel in less than ten seconds)

[John Taylor]

I have broken more than a few taps and in most cases the part can not be replaced easy. I do all my tapping in the mill using the mill as a guide so I'm not pushing the tap sideways. Using a good carbide end mill will almost alway break the end mill. I save the old broken end mills and they get used for boring out broken taps. Using a diamond wheel the end of a broken carbide end mill can be sharpened to look like a cold chisel. Running it at high speed ( 2000rpm) it will cut through a tap with ease but you need a good mill with no slop or the carbide can brake. I doubt that a drill press will be rigid enough. I have already tried most of the ways mentioned and this works best for me, I don't have EDM.

[Tackleberry41]

If its like the mosin trigger jobs out there, the tap is broke in the receiver. Everything I have seen is drilling and tapping a hole just behind the hole for the sear. So no just buying a new part. I did such a job on a mosin recently, didn't get great results, some mosins just have to much slop in them to get any decent adjustment out of them. Mine if set where the pull was good, might not go off as things moved around. Have a timney on the way for my other one.

Broken taps are a royal pain. They can be broken out, just depends on how much damage you can accept. One might shatter with little effort, the next requires some serious effort. Grinding them out with small dremel bits works, sometimes. The very small ones are really really hard to try to tap them around with a punch, really only works with big ones. I have found the Hanson brand you can get easily to be the most likely to break, especially in anything hardened. Higher quality ones don't tend to break so easy. Getting broken ones out is just a hit or miss thing. There isn't a sure fire thing that works.

[oldred]

I have found the Hanson brand you can get easily to be the most likely to break, especially in anything hardened. Higher quality ones don't tend to break so easy.


That's because Hanson, like most cheap hardware store variety taps, are hardened carbon steel. Carbon steel taps break easily while HSS (High Speed Steel) taps are much tougher and less likely to break. Still even HSS taps will break easily if mis-used. With these smaller holes such as this I wouldn't even think of using a carbon steel tap since good HSS taps of that size wouldn't be expensive anyway.


My take on common hardware store variety carbon steel taps, to me (others may have a different opinion so YMMV), carbon steel taps are good mostly for chasing threads to restore a buggered up hole or to clean it of rust/dirt or maybe aluminum/brass/soft cast iron, etc or they MIGHT be ok for soft mild steel. A carbon steel tap is not only more fragile than a good HSS tap but it will usually start to dull as soon as it enters some of the tougher steels such as 4140/4150 (especially the hardened version) commonly used for newer gun parts or any number of other items that are made from steel of different alloys. There is "Night&Day" difference between a cheap carbon steel tap and a good HSS tap when tapping new threads in a piece of steel! HSS taps not only are stronger and less likely to snap off but they cut soooooo much smoother and easier because they start out with sharper edges and retain this sharpness much longer. The big thing about this is that HSS taps really don't cost much more compared to name brand carbon taps like the Hanson (which is not a bad quality tap, it's just made of the wrong material) but they are usually hard to find at most hardware stores unless a person orders them special. However they are very easy to find at any tooling supplier and sometimes when buying during one of the sales good HSS taps can be bought for about the price of carbon taps from places like Enco or Travers.

www.use-enco.com


I keep a set of Hanson carbon steel taps for chasing dirty/rusted or otherwise buggered up threads so that my HSS taps (I prefer OSG and Greenfield but there are many other excellent quality brands available) don't have to be exposed to that sort of trash use, Hanson seems to be decent quality for what they are but IMHO they have limited uses.

Of course just as important is to use the RIGHT tapping fluid for the material being tapped, NEVER EVER use a tap dry!!!!! I have heard it said, and I suppose it may have some wisdom to it, that any kind of oil is better than no oil and while oils like motor oil or light machine oil may be better than nothing it's still not a replacement for the RIGHT cutting fluids!


Then there is the issue of using the right style tap, spiral point, spiral flute, etc but we could write a page on that one however the type of tap is important also. Three basic types, taper (starter tap), plug and bottoming taps with a few variations on these such as a modified bottoming type. If you are buying Hanson or any other tap from a hardware store you will look long and hard for taper taps (starter taps) without much luck as it seems most only carry plug style and a few carry bottoming taps. Plug taps can be used to cut new threads in most materials but they are not ideal, they have a much more acute chamfer and thus take a lot more effort to drive making them more prone to breakage. A taper tap is just that and has a lot more taper on the tip allowing it to cut more progressively and thus with much less resistance, unfortunately the drawback is they will not thread as deeply and are not suitable for shallow blind holes like we commonly see when used on firearms. Still for deeper holes and through holes taper taps will start and cut MUCH easier and are far less likely to break so they should be the first choice when they can be used.

The bottom line is buy good quality HSS taps, use the RIGHT cutting fluids and the proper drive tools, doing these things will reduce tapping problems to a minimum and reduce the frustration factor by orders of magnitude!

[country gent]

Alot of broken taps are from over use. A tap has a number of holes it will cut. Brass, aluminum, steel, stainless the materials also have a definite effect on this life. Most dont realize that tap in thier tool box and how many holes its actually cut so far. As the tap gets older and dull technique becomes more important also. Look at an new tap under magnification edges are sharpe and bright. Now look at the that old one from the garage sale and see the edges have started to round over not as bright or crisp appearing. Tapping the harder steels cut tap life down considerably. Aluminum also lower life as its abrasive. In production we ised alot of expungment taps as these didnt cut but pressed the threads into the castings.

[Smoke4320]

tackleberry41 Thanks for the input.. I actually tap the top of the trigger Put a setscrew (with hardened point) in there and get an adjustable trigger

[M-Tecs]

Types of Taps

Spiral Point Taps— Also known as gun taps, they have an angular point that shears and shoots chips out ahead of the tap. This keeps chips from clogging the flutes, thus reducing tap breakage. Spiral point taps are generally stronger than hand taps and can be run faster with less power. Use them in through-holes and holes two diameters deeper than the required thread length.

Hand Taps— Have straight flutes for hand and machine threading. Although most are used in machine operations today, the traditional name "hand tap" lives on.

Spiral Flute Taps— Also called helical flute taps, the spiral flute uses a lifting action to remove stringy chips that form when tapping soft materials such as aluminum, brass, copper, and magnesium. Use in deep holes, blind holes, and holes with a keyway or gap.

Pipe Taps— Use for internal threading of pipe, pipe fittings, and holes in which you'll be assembling threaded pipe.

Specialty Taps— Include thread forming, extension, nut, ACME tandem, and combined taps and drills.

Materials
Most taps are made of high-speed steel in grades M-1 and M-7, which are for use in a variety of applications on ferrous and nonferrous materials. High performance taps are made of premium high-speed steels and work well on stainless steel, nickel-based alloys, and other exotic metals. Premium steels add abrasion and heat resistance for longer tap life and better tap performance. These taps also have a special cutting design for lower machine power requirements, better chip removal and coolant flow, better thread finishes, and closer tolerance pitch diameter size. Use carbide taps for highly abrasive materials such as cast iron and aluminum. Also excellent for use on cast brass, cobalt chrome alloys, copper and copper alloys, fiberglass, and soft plastics. Carbon steel taps are for jobs that don't require the accuracy of high-speed steel taps and don't need resistance to heat and abrasion (such as in some hand-tapping jobs).

Surface Coatings Coatings improve tap life by as much as 300 to 800 percent over uncoated (bright finish) taps. They also improve the part's surface finish and let you use faster cutting speeds.
TiN (Titanium Nitride)— This gold-colored coating works with a variety of ferrous and nonferrous materials. Not for wrought aluminum and titanium alloys. TiCN (Titanium Carbonitride)— Harder, tougher, and more wear resistant than TiN, TiCN is becoming increasingly popular. Works in a variety of ferrous and nonferrous materials. Color is blue-gray violet.

Surface Treatments
Chrome Plating— Adds hardness to tap threads, improves lubricity, reduces loading, and offers cool cutting. Use on a wide variety of ferrous and nonferrous materials. Silver color.
Oxide— Prevents buildup or welding of workpiece materials on tap surfaces in ferrous materials. Reduces friction between tap and workpiece while providing a porous layer to hold lubricants. Avoid use with nonferrous materials. Blue-black color.
Oxide Over Nitride— Use on ferrous materials, high-temperature alloys, titanium and titanium alloys, free-machining steels, iron, high-tensile steels, and stainless steels. Blue-black color.
Nitride— For use on both ferrous and nonferrous abrasive materials that dull taps. Improves surface toughness of the tap. Use on aluminum, cast iron, brass, bronze, die castings, magnesium, zinc, and copper. Colorless.

Tapping Fluids
The use of tapping fluids is highly recommended for best tapping results. Using tapping fluids increases tap life and production, provides more efficient control of chips, and reduces the frequency of tap resharpening. Fluids are more effective if applied under pressure. Using a top and bottom stream of fluid is desirable when tapping horizontally where the tap is stationary and the part revolves. Do not use a lubricant with hard plastics. Use compressed air to remove chips.

[Smoke4320]

Well kept thinking about all the tips given here..
Attacked the offending tap with a dremel tool and a pointed carbide bit .. Took about a hour to drill thru the tap .. then a center punch to remove the leftover edges..to my surprise threads were nearly unharmed
Started another 8/32 tap and with the use of never seize I was able to finish the job..
Now I have a fairly respectable Trigger :) :)

[oldred]

Yea! Success! Way to go there.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Smoke: You need to bow down and thank the Father, as that much luck can only be delivered by God himself.

I drilled and tapped 2 holes in my 03a3's receiver one Sunday afternoon. It was hot in my shop and I was sweating bullets.

It took 2 full hours to drill and tap two 6-48 holes an my mill with miracle cutting fluid and holding my mouth right and everything! I broke the same tap 4 separate times. Each time I would get to the inside of the hole and the case hardening would snap the tip of the tap off. I have a 3/16 drill blank I have sharpened to a very fine point and that along with my 4 oz Tooncing Hammer would break up the remnants, and I got very lucky every single time .

It was a very enlightening experience and I thanked the Lord each time I was successful. I am not a religious person at all. But I know that I was not totally in control that day.

I usually just say "it's better to be lucky than good!"

Randy

[oldred]

with the use of never seize I was able to finish the job.

If you mean you used "Never seize" as a tap lube then you are indeed a lucky person!

"Never seize" (Anti-Seize) is the wrong lube for the job but of course ANY kind of lube is better than no lube! Get yourself some "Tap Magic" (not as good as it once was but still really good stuff), "Rapid Tap", LPS tapping fluid, etc and save yourself some grief in the future. Trust me there is a WORLD of difference when using the right fluids!

[smokeywolf]

Bee's wax or Crisco is surprisingly good in aluminum. For tapping medium and high carbon steels in general, it's hard to beat Moly-Dee. Apparently Castrol stopped making it about 7 years ago. Still seeing it (or knock-offs of it) on ebay.

[M-Tecs]

For tapping medium and high carbon steels in general, it's hard to beat Moly-Dee. Apparently Castrol stopped making it about 7 years ago. Still seeing it (or knock-offs of it) on ebay.

Castrol is still making it in a chloro-alkanes C10-13 free version. That is what the CF stands for.

You can order it here https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/45730595?item=45730595

The old cutting fluids that contained 1,1,1-Trichloroethane generally did a better job than what is available today but the old Moly-Dee is the real deal. I still have some of the original Tap Magic that is 1,1,1 Trichlorotane and vegtable oil.

I am not sure how the chlorine free (CF) version compares to the original.

[smokeywolf]

Thanks, M-Tecs. Think I'll have to put an order together for that and a couple of other essentials. Moly Dee stinks to high Heaven, but sure works well.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Smoke: You need to bow down and thank the Father, as that much luck can only be delivered by God himself.

I drilled and tapped 2 holes in my 03a3's receiver one Sunday afternoon. It was hot in my shop and I was sweating bullets.

It took 2 full hours to drill and tap two 6-48 holes an my mill with miracle cutting fluid and holding my mouth right and everything! I broke the same tap 4 separate times. Each time I would get to the inside of the hole and the case hardening would snap the tip of the tap off.

Randy

I've encountered that case hardening problem. The best solution, if it isn't a blind hole, is a carbide ball burr with diameter slightly larger than the hole. Pull the shank through from the inside, using a wire holder or a piece of thread superglued to the rear face of the shank. You may have to shorten the shank. Then chuck it in the Dremel or other drill and pull as it turns, chamfering the inside of the hole.

[oldred]

The old cutting fluids that contained 1,1,1-Trichloroethane generally did a better job than what is available today


I still have some of the original Tap Magic that is 1,1,1 Trichlorotane and vegtable oil.

I am not sure how the chlorine free (CF) version compares to the original.

That's what I meant when I said it's not as good as it once was, it still works pretty good however and it's what I use but now it's the new stuff since I used the last of the old formula. I shudder to think about using anti-seize as a tap lube, it might be good at preventing galling but it would make chips stick like glue!

[W.R.Buchanan]

The world is not a better place with the removal of the great tapping fluids.

Moly Dee from the 80's and 90's was the best of all, but I usually reserved it for stainless as the stuff was a mess to deal with.

Rapid Tap and Tapmagic were good for lots of stuff. For aluminum I have always use WD40 or Citgo 130 Even the Citgo 130 is gone and Chevron has replaced it with something less effective.

What I really like is "Hangsterfers Hardcut" it smells like Play Doh!

Randy

[M-Tecs]

What I really like is "Hangsterfers Hardcut" it smells like Play Doh!

Randy

Me to. I use a lot of the Hard-Cut 5258 but even that has changed from what it was in the 80's. The SuperAllTap is easier to find in small bottles.

[smokeywolf]

One that I used quite a bit on stainless and titanium was Molecular's Tapping Compound. Tapping Hastelloy or Nitralloy involved one additional component; prayer.

[kootne]

The 2 best ways that work for me have been mentioned.
First way, a carbide end mill. Get a couple, you want them as big as you can and still be under the tap drill size. Get as short a flute length as possible. Use 4 fluters. Stone a good champher on the corners with a diamond slip, doing this will really toughen the corners where it is most likely to break. Clamp SOLID. Spin fast. Feed light. Use the quill stop and lower it a 1/4 turn at a time so you don't have a wreck when it breaks through.
2nd way, grind a 2 flute spade bit out of a broken piece of carbide shank. Use about 1/2 the point angle of a 135 degree drill bit as a reference.

I used drill out a lot of taps at work, 8-32 was a big one. Most were 6-32 but also did 4-40 and 2-56. Tap breakage went away when I started telling the assembly folks to bring the thread chasing to me. Nobody can do as good a job with a hand held tap handle as can be done in a mill with the tap dead over the hole.