Ingot mold

[carpetman]

Fancy this a boolit casting board and not one post about equipment. I'll kick it off with a real technical question. Once I get my wheelweights melted down,what could I use for an ingot mold? Anybody have any creative ideas?

[wills]

Trapdoor84 builds his own out of angle iron

[Willbird]

I like the Lodge Corn bread skillet, I grabbed (3) of them off ebay for 3-5 bucks each plus shipping.

also the popover pans as they are called that have 4-6 steel cups welded to wire frames work great, I also got (4) of them off ebay for 31.00 shipped, the one I have already(got at goodwill) throws 4lb ingots, the ones I bought will throw 3lbs I'm guessing.

avoid two piece muffin tins like the plague, the unit is not stiff enough, it is a shame but most are made that way now.

If you want to add liquid metal from a saucepan on a hot plate to your casting pot your going to want 3-4 lb ingots I think, or at least they will not be a detriment to the process.

Bill

[C1PNR]

I claim no credit for the following, it's from BruceB and just makes a LOT of sense to me.

Lead Ingot Idea - BruceB
I'll admit to being cheap, but my ingot moulds are NOT inefficient!

My friends in the shop at the mine used four pieces of 1.5" angle-iron 10.5" in length, and welded them side-by-side like this: VVVV. A piece of flat stock was welded across each end of the "troughs." A handle made of narrower flat stock was welded to each of the end pieces for ease of handling. ALL welds should be on the OUTSIDE to allow easier release of the ingots.

Why 10.5 " in length??? Because at that particular length, they leave a finger's space at the end of the ingots in the .50-cal ammo cans which I use to store them. They stack so tightly, being triangular in section, that it's often impossible to scrabble one loose from the pile if you can't lift an end. A .50 can holds over 100 pounds of ingots, and this is a convenient size to use as a "lot" of alloy for control purposes. BTW, each ingot weighs around three pounds.

NOTE TO SELF: Need to measure what a 2” angle would be like.

[anachronism]

Empty pop cans. Cut the top off, rinse well and allow to dry thoroughly, for the obvious reason. Set the cans on a board, and pour in the desired amount of alloy. The paint will burn off the can, but that's about it. Allow to cool overnight, then peel the aluminum off with a pair of pliers. You can even recycle the aluminum if you're frugal.

Bob

[imashooter2]

I use a combination of welded angle iron, commercial ingot molds and iron corn bread molds. Actually, I don't use the angle iron much... I find small ingots work easier in my 10 pound Lee pot.

[Gussy]

I have 2 types, one out of welded angle as others have said and on out of channel iron. The angle cools faster.

If you want to get fancy, engrave a carrage bolt head with alloy you're putting into ingots and put it through a hole on the back side of the mould. A permanent mark will then be in each ingot. I have marks ground in the moulds which allow some ID.
Gus

[carpetman]

Gussy--That permanent mark on the ingot made from a carriage bolt disappeared when I melted the ingot---did I do something wrong?

[Gussy]

My guess is when you threw the cat in it disturbed the surface tension enough to cause some boiling and this probably caused the loss. When you empty the pot (if the cat didn't when he was circling the pot rim looking for a way out) see if it fell to the bottom. You may have put the ingot in upside down. I only do this when I'm planning on loading the bullet backwards so it will shoot slower.
Gus

[Wapo]

I use the bread stick pans too. The cast iron ones are best.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/wapo3030/gold.jpg
The pan will make 12-2 lb. ingots using pure lead. A wee lighter
in WW. Makes for nice loading into the pot.

[beagle]

Hey carpet.... I'm like most of these guys. I use cast iron cornbread moulds, muffin tins, and the standard Lyman and RCBS ingot moulds.

Now, what I'm really looking for is a mould like the print shops use to cast lino in for reuse. Must be about 2 X 2 X 10 and casts a bar that looks to weigh about 5 pounds.

I get tired of moving all those dinky ingots around.

I have one olf Pacific ingot mould that casts one that is about half the size of a Lyman bar. Works good for lino and tin. Gets it down into workable quantities.

Anyone see one of the lino moulds on the Bay, tip me off./beagle

[beagle]

Gussy...Carpet will never learn that you're suppose to "bronze" cats and use the lead for bullets.

The bronze ones have better resale value.

Boy won't ever learn./beagle

[carpetman]

Gussy---I fully understand your thinking that the permanent mark from the carriage bolt might sink to the bottom. The lead is compressed from the dimple thus the compaction would make it weigh more and thus sink. Very good logic. But sometimes what seems logical doesnt work in reality. I must warn you. If you go looking in the bottom of the pot for that mark. Groan. I hate to say it. You will miss carriage.

[44 WCF]

I bought old aluminum fruit cake pans at a thrift shop for a quarter each. Each yield about 7 lbs in size that fits just right in my RCBS melt pot.
I since saw same at Wal Mart, metal for about 2 bucks each. I bought two of those. With 7 pans now I can smelt almost 50 lbs finished WW without having to handle until cool. and they fit right in my RCBS pot.
I wasn't sure about the non stick of the new pans being toxic with contact with molten lead, (teflon melting?) so was careful but did not detect any fumes, but kept upwind just to be sure.

For my Magma Caster ingots I use aluminum ice cube trays from thrift shop also with yield 18 lbs

[Oldfeller]

Heck, I use cheap small cavity aluminum muffin tins sprayed with Pam vegetable oil anti-stick spray -- I use standard casting gloves to flip the pans over after the lead congeals and cools a bit, this keeps from tearing the tins up like a pair of pliers would do.

Aluminum muffin tins are cheap, don't cha know ? Work just fine and you can always find a spare set to "permanently borrow" stored under the kitchen cabinets .....

Oldfeller

[NVcurmudgeon]

Carpetman, I use my rare LYMAZ (Z represents backwards N) ingot mould exclusively. Lately I have felt the need of a second mould. Naturally I want to have another real ingot mould, because I know the former moderator on the old Shooters board took a dim view of makeshifts. I have made three attempts to order an RCBS mould from Midway, each time using the ingot mould as a fill in to make up the minimum order. without fail Midway would be unable to deliver my whole order, so I would cancel and buy everything locally, except for the unobtainable ingot mould. I am beginning to believe that there is a demon possessing LYMAZ ingot moulds, causing them to resent the presence of other brands. I'm sure the LYMAZ could be exorcised by filling it while the mould is rotating backwards on a digronificated turntable, but then the L would be backwards. No wonder some casters use such alternate ingot moulds as cornbread moulds, Coke cans, and angle iron. It's not their fault, the devil made them do it! curmudgeon

[carpetman]

Curmudgeon--The former moderator on the old Shooters site had no aversion to makeshift ingot molds. Really enjoyed the hilariousness of the situation though,atleast his perception of the hilariousness of it. The subject would come up very frequently. Most times it would result in a whole bunch of posts on the subject. All types of creative ideas. I once had some muffin pan ingots,that were not as handy to use. They weren't as easy to add to my melting pot and didnt stack as well. I no longer stack ingots,I place them in a plastic bucket--so that part doesnt matter now. Using muffin pans,seems people are in constant search as they do have to replace them. Oldfeller uses Pam on the muffin pan,an expense even though it may be a small one you don't have using an ingot mold. Using aluminum cans has a couple of drawbacks in my books. You have to cut the top off. You have the danger of moisture still being in it. You need pliers to peel off the can. If poured too thick,they wouldnt add to the pot very easily and would be hard to grasp with pliers to add them. Using my LYMAZ(as you know,I too have the Lyman with backwards N) I think the 4 ingots weigh around ten pounds. There is a lip on the mold for using pliers to dump it. The wait between filling it and dumping it is very short and ready for ten more pounds. I find the ingots very easy to use. Easily use pliers to add them to the pot and they fit right in. All in all we are talking a $15 item or less. I bought mine used in 1967 and it's as good as ever. I do enjoy reading about all the other alternatives.

[nighthunter]

Beagle .... I might be able to help you with the larger ingot mold. I work in the glass industry and the machines use a series of long cast iron and aluminum troughs and deflectors to deliver the glass gob to the mold in the forming machine. We throw many of the used or damaged ones into the recycle bin outback of the shop. With some of these you could pour a 10 foot long ingot. they very in length and width. A person could easily cut some to the desired size and weld a cap on each end. I've been planning on doing it myself as I have 8 5 gallon buckets of WW to process when it gets nice enough to be outside for a few hours. Let me know what you think and I'll see what I can come up with.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Carpetman, If your LYMAZ ingot mould make ten lb. of ingotd per filling you must be using a Texas Bureau of Standards Certified Scale. Mine make four ten lb. ingots. curmudgeon

[carpetman]

NVCurmudgeon----Was thinking that thick LYMAZ ingots weighed about 2.5 lbs??? Seems like I emptied my 10 lbd cast iron pot when I filled it. Been awhile and I never had need to weigh the ingots.

[44man]

The heck with the molds, more humor! I got tears in my eyes. That was great. :lol: :lol:

[NVcurmudgeon]

Oops, Sorry Carpetman. My LYMAZ ingot mould makes four ONE lb. ingots. Guess I was using Nevada casino odds! curmudgeon

[carpetman]

NVCurmudgeon---Bill,thanks for the clarification,I was terribly confused but didnt want to dare open my mouth and say so. Now this is real technical. How thick you pour your ingots has a direct relation on how much they weigh. Thicker ingots tend to weigh more. This is strictly an empirical observation. I'm sure someone has done scientific testing to prove my theory wrong and who knows possibly even confirm it? If wrong,we'll hear about it and if proven correct,it will probably slide on by. That's how these boards work. Anyways pour some thick ingots and 4 will be 10 pounds. How thick you might ask? Well thick enough that they weigh 2.5 lbs each. Call them magnum ingots.(You don't have to have a magnum gun to shoot them though).

[NVcurmudgeon]

Ray, Usually I pour my ingots only thick enough to not slop over into the next compartment. I did pour a thicker ingot once, right up to the top of the mould. What I got was only one really wide ingot. but it was too big to go into the pot. IIRC it weighed 6.3784 lb. I turned it upside down and now use it for a file folder holder. It only holds three files, but it save the cost of a filing cabinet. Three files are plenty, they are neatly labeled A-M, N-Z, and starts with numbers. Bill

[carpetman]

NVCurmudgeon--Bill thanks for the information that the full ingot weighs 6.3784 pounds. I certainly would have guessed they weighed in at atleast 6.3785 but that shows what I know. I was thinking my 10 pound pot was about empty when I poured 4 thick ones---maybe I didnt have the pot full?By thick,I don't mean one solid piece. Thick enough to have fins maybe. Except for use as a paperweight,you'd ruin your alloy making them one solid piece. I never weighed ingots. But your weighing them out to 4 decimal points might answer a question I have. As you know there are 7,000 grains in a pound. That figure is based on the weight of an average sized grain of wheat. I have always wondered who counted them. Was that you?

[Willbird]

Well it could be also that you are casting ingots in lead that is mostly culled boolits, the culls usually have grease grooves, if you do not flux several times the grease grooves remain in the melt and make the ingots lighter.

Bill

[NVcurmudgeon]

Carpetman, Ray I volunteered for the job but could only count to nineteen grains because twenty grains makes a scruple. As you know, I am completely without scruples. I even plunder tireshop parking lots at night for wheelweights. Bill

[carpetman]

NVCrumudgeon--Bill, I had high hopes that you did in fact discover that there were 7,000 wheat grains in a pound. Why did I hope that you might ask? Pause-----while Bill asks. Well for a couple of reasons. One would be that I know two celebrities. You and Felix. The other would be that I could have saved you some time. Well ok,I couldn't have as you already know what I'm about to tell you,but it would possibly answer a couple questions I have. If you get the computer program that tells you how many charges of a certain weight you get out of a pound of powder, you can also determine there are 437.5 grains to the ounce. You knew this. But the person that discovered the 7,000 per pound didn't, as how many in a pound wasnt yet known. But you could have stopped at 1 oz and multiplied by 16(with the help of the mentioned computer program). (You couldn't have stopped at a srupple as you have none--but thats another post and you already made it). So now to my question. First how would you precisely cut a grain of wheat in half?(to get 437.5 per oz) Now the real question--what kind of scales do you have that will measure an ingot to four decimal places????

[carpetman]

Willbird---Yes indeed the grease grooves can make the ingots lighter if you don't flux them out. Reverse of the carriage dimple making them heavier. I just know NVCurmudgeon could get his weight up to 6.3785 or more if he fluxed out the grease grooves.

[waksupi]

As always, Carpetman misses an important point, that can throw off all other calculations.

If hollow point bullets, or bullets from metric calibers are being melted, all bets are offf on getting a full 10 pounds. With the metric rounds, you would have to figure by decimal AND imperial measure, divide by two, and hope you didn't forget to carry the one. Then you still won't know how much it weighs.

[sundog]

That's right, Waksupi, especially if any of the mix were recycled HP boolits of even worse, lead pipe. Those holes would have to rendered before pouring off into ingots. If not there's no telling how those voids would affect the over all weight. It's kinda like those loads of wha appear to be pipe going down the highway on trailers. What you see is actually the packaging and it's those instant post holes that are the real commodity. Takes all the need for digging out of the picture when putting up a corral -- the larger ones would be good for a pole barn. Just get a load of post holes, remove the steel or plastic wrapper, install, and there ya go! Premanufactured post holes, what will they think of next? sundog

[Gussy]

Carpetman, I'm a bit confused on the 7000 grain thing. I counted them out in red wheat, white wheat, soft wheat, hard wheat and in several varieties of each. EVERY SINGLE one was different. You are going to have to be more specific as to grain size. :?:

I don't have any of the 6th century varieties to check or was that 7th?
Gus

[wills]

NVCrumudgeon--Bill, I had high hopes that you did in fact discover that there were 7,000 wheat grains in a pound. Why did I hope that you might ask? Pause-----while Bill asks. Well for a couple of reasons. One would be that I know two celebrities. You and Felix. The other would be that I could have saved you some time. Well ok,I couldn't have as you already know what I'm about to tell you,but it would possibly answer a couple questions I have. If you get the computer program that tells you how many charges of a certain weight you get out of a pound of powder, you can also determine there are 437.5 grains to the ounce. You knew this. But the person that discovered the 7,000 per pound didn't, as how many in a pound wasnt yet known. But you could have stopped at 1 oz and multiplied by 16(with the help of the mentioned computer program). (You couldn't have stopped at a srupple as you have none--but thats another post and you already made it). So now to my question. First how would you precisely cut a grain of wheat in half?(to get 437.5 per oz) Now the real question--what kind of scales do you have that will measure an ingot to four decimal places????

http://www.24carat.co.uk/weightsframe.html

Grain
Although we have stated above that the grain weighted the same in all three of the above systems, there were at least two different grains. The troy system used the supposed weight of the barley grain, whereas the wheat grain was also used as a standard of weight. There were three barley grains to four wheat grains.

http://www.sizes.com/library/Britain/ponderibus.htm

“By Consent of the whole Realm the King's Measure was made, so that an English Penny, which is called the Sterling, round without clipping, shall weigh Thirty-two Grains of Wheat1 dry in the midst of the Ear; Twenty-pence make an Ounce; and Twelve Ounces make a Pound and Eight Pounds make a Gallon of Wine2; and Eight Gallons of Wine make a Bushel of London; which is the Eighth Part of a Quarter…

…“Six times Twenty Stone, that is fifteen hundred Pound, make a Load of Lead, to wit the great Load of London, but the Load of the Peak is much less”

…” The Load of Lead doth consist of Thirty Formels4, and every Formel containeth Six Stone, except Two Pound; and every Stone doth consist of Twelve Pound, and every Pound consisteth of the Weight of 25 Shillings,5 whereby the Sum in the Formel is Seventy Pound. But the Sum of the Stones in the Load is Eight Times Twenty and Fifteen, and it is proved by Six Times Thirty which is Nine Times Twenty. But of every Formel there are abated Two Pound in the foresaid Multiplication, which are Sixty, which make Five Stone. And so there are in the Load Eight Times Twenty and Fifteen as is aforesaid.”

[waksupi]

Wills, as one who suffers from numerical dyslexia, may I thank you for putting a final finish to my confusion and innocence,sinking me thoroughly into a morass of misunderstanding, in the matter of numbers. My mind is now totally numb.

[carpetman]

Sundog--Those pre packaged post holes are pricey. I get old abandoned wells and chop them up to make mine. Most people will just give you an old unused well,some will want you to fill in the hole. More work but still cheaper than buying the pre packaged.

[NVcurmudgeon]

wills, Now you've done it, brought ye olde english lawyerspeak in. I had enough trouble understanding Carpetman.

Carpetman,the only scale that I have that will weigh high enough is the bathroom scale. I arrive at precise weights by interpolating how much of the space between two pound marks the needle has swung past. Being very young and sharp-eyed making out the exact weight to the fourth deceimal place is easy. curmudgeon

[C1PNR]

Man, am I glad to hear that someone else uses the bathroom scale for precise measurements! :)

My brother was asking how he could measure some of the boolits from his moulds. I had not thought of using this commonly found instrument. What a relief!

I'll try it with 10 of them in each hand. That should balance the load and give a representative reading. :)

Thanks guys!! :D

[Willbird]

Some people are very frugal, using the bathroom scale to weigh powder charges is very very accurate as long as you throw 100 lbs of them and then divide by the number of charges, when working up a load you can always weigh the powder on both neighbors on each side scales too to cross check accuracy.

for measuring boolit diameter if you cannot afford a micrometer I have found that marking a 2x4 with a razor sharp crayon to work for me, you simply borrow a friends mike and use it to calibrate the 2x4, there are correction factors involved for temperature and humidity, many of these can be shortcut by simply weighing the lumber and building a sliding scale for weight. also you can easily increase the accuracy if you index mark the boolit and roll it down the board say 10-100 times and then do the math, this is in fact the only way I know to get boolit dia down to the .00001" If you do it that way the common tape measure can be used for calibration. for proper accuracy of course start with the 1" mark and measure from there so the slop in the little hook on the end of the tape doesnt throw you off, you could end up shooting 44 boolits in your 32 if your not good at math :-) but at least they will not EVER exibit gas cutting.

[NVcurmudgeon]

For some unknown reason I have a long fence that ends by making a turn and going a short distance to no purpose. I am digging out the posts and will then extend the fence on the correct line. I am removing five post holes and will need only one to complete my project. Clearly, there will be a surplus of four post holes that are available free to whoever would like to have them. These are valuable Nevada post holes and should be stored in a post hole cache. You can make your own post hole caches by using a clamshell type cache digger, available at any hardware store. To thwart desperate post hole thieves, I suggest that you make your caches two to four feet deep, depending on soil density in your area. For extra security, pour a foot of concrete into the caches before filling with the dirt of your choice. Winner of this giveaway must pay a shipping charge of $0.37. curmudgeon

[Gussy]

curmudgeon, I am trying to build a deer fence around a new orchard and hit solid rock. Will your post holes go into rock?? I only need a couple. The price is right if they'll work in rock. A lot cheaper'n a pick and pry bar. :roll:
Gus

[carpetman]

Yes it's best to cross reference your scales with someone elses. To be sure,ask the woman of the house how much her scales show her to weigh? You are not to ask women how much they weigh,you are asking what it shows so you can determine if their is an error. Explain that you suspect there might be a discrepancy and you will try to adjust them for her. This will make her happy.

[carpetman]

You can also use a stop watch for a chronograph. Very simple,it is activated by your trigger finger. You stop it when the bullet hits. You measure distance and with the time you can figure the fps. If you have any trouble with the Math, get Waksupi to help you. He is a whizz on this stuff.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Sorry, Gussy, these post holes are the light duty model. They came from good deep moist dirt. It may be that this place was named Pleasant Valley because it is one of the few places in Nevada where you can find occasional rock-free spots for fence posts. It would be handier if the rockless spots occurred on eight-foot centers, but you can't have everything. Have you considered welding plates on the bottom end of T-posts and bolting them to studs "fired" into the rock? Anything to avoid pick work! curmudgeon

[BruceB]

I WILL be dogged! "Art Imitates Life", or something like that.

Our self-built 5000-square-foot home on the bushland shore of Prelude Lake, Northwest Territories was constructed on solid rock, meaning ABSOLUTELY no soil......just bare igneous (volcanic) rock.

When it became obvious that the place would HAVE to be fenced to keep dogs and (new) kid in, and more importantly to keep the pesky black bears OUT, I borrowed a gas-powered rock drill from the mine and set 3/4" drill steel rods about a foot into the rock and grouted them in place with mortar. They stuck about 18" out of the surface. I then constructed the posts with three plys of nominally- 2" lumber with a hole up the middle, and these were just slipped over the drill-steel posts. Construction then proceeded in the normal fashion.

Only real trouble was in manhandling the 100-pound drill on some rather steep and slippery side-hill spots, but apart from that the system worked well.

Just goes to show that whatever we may dream up, someone, somewhere, has likely done it before us!

[Sixgun Symphony]

Fancy this a boolit casting board and not one post about equipment. I'll kick it off with a real technical question. Once I get my wheelweights melted down,what could I use for an ingot mold? Anybody have any creative ideas?


I use the LEE ingot mould.

*click here* (http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1136276424.166=/html/catalog/melters.html) and scroll down.

[WyrTwister]

My wife bought several muffin pans at a garage sale . The aluminum ones work better than the steel ones , unless they are Teflon coated .

God bless
Wyr