flintlock purchase ??? maybe

[bigted]

been casting round and thinking about selling a rifle to get cash for another purchase. BUT ...

my pocket book is going to be around 6 or 7 hundred so my question is for the folks experienced with these rifles;

- the Lyman slow twist flintlock "great plains rifle"
- the older Thompson center flintlock "renegade or hawkin rifle"
- the pedrosoli flintlock in "hawkin or Kentucky or Pennsylvania rifles"
- maybe I have overlooked a builder that is in my price range.

of these what would be your recommendations ... and why?

thanks.

[Boogieman]

Lyman flinters good accurate guns, I shoot a caplockGP, Friends with flinters say their only problem is you have to be sure to keep the powder chamber in the breech clean they made a shaped plug scraper. TC Hawkin have 1 in 48 " twist will handle RB & slugs But your range of accurate RB loads will be more limited. Some had soft frizzens , didn't spark good , mine worked fine. They can be rehardened easily .TC's will be cheaper and easer to find. Can't be much help with others Pedersoil has a good reputation but are high priced. The old Dixie Gun Works south mountain rifles were good , made by Miroku in Japan. Good luck hunting

[waksupi]

I'd try the Lyman. If you find someone who will build you one for that price, run away very fast.

[waarp8nt]

I have a couple of the older T/C model flinters, the White Mountain and a Renegade. I like them both, bought the White Mountain years ago at Bass Pro Shops in Springfield, MO as an open box non fired after Christmas return (discounted greatly). Recently parted together the Renegade. I think if you put one together out of parts, you could end up with a Renegade, Hawken or even a Lyman Great Plains at 1/2 your budget or less.

If you are full bore into building you could always check out the kits at Pecatonica River. They are around your budget with quality locks.

[AtomHeartMother]

Whatever you decide research the lock as much as you can on your choice. Locks are the beating heart of flinters....get a bad one and you'll be running back to percussion. Good lock speed, strong spark in the right direction and lock geometry are critical. I put a L&R lock on one of my Kentucky rifles and was amazed at the performance improvement. I can get an easy 150 shots or so out of a flint...read where others are getting north of 200 on one flint. You don't want to be changing flints a lot, beleive me... Good luck with your decision and let us know what you end up with !

[Lonegun1894]

You have picked some good rifles. I don't think you can really go wrong as long as you inspect and the gun has been taken care of and not allowed to rust. I prefer the Lyman GPR (due to the extra drop in the stock as compared to a "hawken" of whatever brand), and have 3 of them in flint, a .50 and .54 with factory rifled barrels, and a GM .54 smoothbore barreled one. I have had a TC Hawken, and while it was a good and accurate gun, it just didn't fit me as well as the GPRs so I sent it down the road. You know, out of your choices, I would go out and shoulder each one of the models you're interested in and see which is most comfortable. I will also add some confusion to your quest. The Lyman Trade Rifle has the same stock geometry as the TC Hawken, with the differences being that it has a single trigger instead of a double, no patch box, and also you can get it new instead of getting an older TC and hoping the previous owner took care of it. Make sure you inspect a used rifle very well, just in case, so you don't trade your hard earned cash for a tomato stake like many have done.

[mooman76]

I don't shoot flint, yet so I don't have any first hand experience but I here lots of good things and people recommending the Lyman GPR, especially to a first time flinter. Like stated the lock on he flintlock is the most important piece. Get a bad one and you'll curse the gun and hate it. Many a first timers get a cheap gun with a poor lock and give up or move to caplock.

[rancher1913]

make sure you can get real black powder in 4f for the frizen pan. the charge can be artificial but the 4f is the only thing that makes mine go boom reliably.

[Maven]

One more point in favor of the Lyman GPR/GPH (slow, fast twist respectively) over the T/C is that parts for the Lyman/Investarms are available v. the T/C's (not so much!).

[bigted]

that's awesome fellers ... I have and shoot both the TC guns as well as a GPR caplock gun I built/put together. I found out how to make em fit me as well as any I have found so I do know of the overall quality of these rifles ... just not the flint aspect as for the quality of the factory locks.

so I have a choice now which is narrowed down to either get a L&R replacement lock for my Renegade and re-plug the barrel with TOW's breech plug for flintlock ... or get a Lyman kit to put together in flintlock as a 54 cal ball gun. don't like the 48 twist of the factory TC's but I have another 54 cal Renegade barrel that is kinda trashed at the muzzle which I am leaning towards getting re-bored to a 70 twist 58 cal.

so based on this ... where do yall fall as for advice? my Renegade is "fixed" on the stock with a little carving on the cheek comb and a leather lace up recoil pad for length so it is comfy to shoot as a capper ... and I could wind up with a quality L&R lock at the same time.

[Boaz]

I have a 50 cal Pendersoli Kentucky , I have enjoyed it and think it to be a good rifle . Of the one's you mentioned in the opening post the GP rifles seem to make a lot of people very happy . Good luck in your search !

[dagger dog]

Last time at the local Cabela's they had the Pedersoli Pennsylvania on the shelf for 710,thats close to the SRP for a Lyman-Investarms GPR, the Pedersoli's have a leaf mainspring as opposed to the coils on the Lyman, plus the barrel was browned,and a vey nice walnut stock with period correct sights. The Kentucky is on sale now for 569 if you don't mind the blued barrel, both are 1in48 twist 50 cal.

The Lyman Investarms are good rifles I have the IA Hawken cap lock 50 cal. mine is a IA and it's a hoss.

[Lonegun1894]

One more point in favor of the Lyman GPR (whether slow or fast twist) over the T/C is that parts for the Lyman/Investarms are available v. the T/C's (not so much!).

Just remember that the GPR stands for Great Plains Rifle, and is always rifled 1:60" twist, while the GPH, as in Great Plains Hunter, is the fast twist with 1:32" twist barrel. Same exact design, and the only difference is the twist.

[doc1876]

My gpr fits and shoots good

[bedbugbilly]

You've narrowed your choice on "production" rifles but don't overlook a good used rifle as well that is more "custom built".

What are your other requirements? What caliber fits your requirements. If you are just target/plinking, a smaller caliber will do just fine. For small game, a .36 or .40 is a good caliber. If you hunt deer - something larger. I haven't hunted in years but the last I knew, my state required a .45 or larger. Obviously, smaller balls take less lead and powder but if you're looking for a heavier caliber, a .50, .54 or .58 are good choices.

Locks - as stated already, the lock is the "heart" of the rifle. I have no experience with the GP, TC, etc. standard flintlock locks. I've always used L & R, etc. If you aren't happy with the way the standard production flintlock lock functions, replacements can be had from places like T of the W. That'd not to say the standard production won't function well - lots of folks using them.

If you like one of the production rifles - the GP or TC and they fit your requirements, then go for it. If time is not a factor as far as purchase, look around and see what is out there in used custom built rifles. You never know what you'll run across. I've passed on some decent flinters that were in the $700 - $800 range that were nice rifles. No, they weren't finely carved, inlaid rifles - but good functional rifles with some use that had a lot more use left in them.

You're in Oregon or I'd suggest you make a trip to Friendship to the Nationals - it's been a few years since I was there but I always ran across good used rifles down there - and purchased a few that came home with me. If I remember correctly, just recently, thee was a nice rifle listed in the WTS section here that was a custom rifle - I believe a Jack Garner (unless my old age is affecting my memory) and it was right around $800.00. Jack built some very nice rifles and even though it was "used", it would last a person their lifetime . . . and their grandchild's as well.

As far as priming powder . . . 4F does work the best on most rifles. Over the years, when I've run out of it, I have taken 2F, put a small quantity in a glass bowl (like a custard cup) and with a spoon, carefully worked it in to finer grains - always worked fine. A pound of 4F will last for a long time though.

Good luck in your search - you'll fine something that fits what you'd like.

[OuchHot!]

Can you get to the "Gun Works" in Springfield Ore? They have a wall full of used rifles and racks of new rifles that may give you an idea what fits and speaks to you. They are good folk. That being said, I started with a GPR .50 and found it worked well (once I learned "how") and was accurate. The Lyman has gone up a lot in price and I would definitely be in a used market if I was starting out now.

[pietro]

I have a choice now which is narrowed down to either get a L&R replacement lock for my Renegade and re-plug the barrel with TOW's breech plug for flintlock ... or get a Lyman kit to put together in flintlock as a 54 cal ball gun. don't like the 48 twist of the factory TC's but I have another 54 cal Renegade barrel that is kinda trashed at the muzzle which I am leaning towards getting re-bored to a 70 twist 58 cal.

so based on this ... where do yall fall as for advice?





I'd convert the Renegade to rocklock - and use the same priming powder (FFg or FFFg) as the main charge (aka: K.I.S.S.)



.

[Good Cheer]

bigted,
I think that if a Renegade shoots good for you (your stature and shooting habits and environs), then it's a bargain that shouldn't be passed up. How can the modern day analog for a German jager rifle at dime a dozen prices be bad? Well, unless it doesn't suit you?
My "jager" is a Renegade flinter rebored to .58.
It's big sister is a flinter TC Hawken .62.
Yeehah.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/th_62Rifle600RB120grFFg1533FPS_zps96e2e091.mp4 (http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/62Rifle600RB120grFFg1533FPS_zps96e2e091.mp4)

[bigted]

so an update on this project ...

I remembered a stock I bought awhile back for another project that is for a TC renegade/hawken . it is plain maple and so this is the stock I will use.

I will purchase a new L&R replacement lock to fit the TC lock area that is already carved on the stock.

would like to get the barrel and plug at the same stop at TOW for these and the lock. 54 with a 70 twist and 36 inch long ... then I will brown em all myself.

get a gentle crescent plate to fit up to the butt.

would like to carve a silver star for the cheek piece and inlay it.

man these always go this direction for me. I begin to think thrifty and cheap and ... WALLA ... before I know it I have taken on a task n a half. ho hum ... got a little time before I actually commit to a final direction so may just dig out the wood on my Renegade for the L&R and unplug the percussion and screw on a flinter plug just to wet my feet a bit before going whole hog.

seems like the best turn to think about but who knows ... these are the lines im going towards tho.

would like to try my hand at pewter casting for the forend tip ... but don't know if I am that ambitious.

[Boogieman]

If your going to use a TC barrel check the breech plug threads . TC 1" barrels use a non standard 11/16-20 thread standard is3/4- 16 TOW lists both.