40-65 loads, PLEASE!

[badgeredd]

I've looked through the posts to find any loads for a PB 260 grain RNFP bullet for my Pedersoli Sharps in 40-65 and so far haven't been able to gleen much. Kinda hoping someone can give me their final load so I can work up to it. Also I'm a newbie to cast and I am getting the impression that some where around 1500 fps is about optimun for a plain bullet (no GC). Is this right? I haven't got out the chrono to check velocities but I seem to be getting decent accuracy for minute of deer. I've only tried IMR4198 and I'm getting about 1 1/2", five shot group at 75 yds. If anyone has had some experience with this bullet/cartridge combination I'd appeciate any info they care to give. Also any other bullet that one has found to be a good hunting bullet for the cartridge would also be welcome. Thanks.

[Buckshot]

................For 'just shooting' I like the RCBS 300 gr C Sharps boolit in my Pedersoli:

http://www.fototime.com/02838B89D2984DB/standard.jpg

14 grs Unique = 1340 fps
15 grs SR7625 = 1320 fps
24 grs XMR5744 = 1506 fps
20 grs SR4759 = 1445 fps
24 grs IMR4227 = 1600 fps
26 grs H4198 = 1585 fps
35 grs AA2495 = 1450 fps
38 grs *surp 4895 = 1595 fps

* a bit slower then canister 4895.

The 300gr slug is a PB and I use a cardwad under it.

...............Buckshot

[badgeredd]

Buckshot,
Thanks a bunch. I'll be getting a mold for a 300 grainer as soon as the lady says it's ok. Hey don't laugh...I am the boss, she says so!
Serious I appreciate your resonse. Am I correct in assuming you haven't worked with a 260 gr. pill? The cardwad is something I've heard about but wasn't really sure if it would help accuracy/velocity.
I purchased a 100 precast 'cause I had no idea where to start so now I know. Thanks again.

[e15cap]

Much info on the Shiloh forum. You need to quit using that new fangled smokeless stuf and shoot what that cartridge was made for - The Holy Black.
Best Roger

[DonH]

I have not tried the 260 gr bullet (yet) in my .40-65 nor have I used 4198 in it. I HAVE tried 4759 with 210 gr hollowpoint revolver bullets. That load shot about 2' @ 100 yd with barrel sights from a Shiloh 16" twist barrel
I don't see why 4198 won't work with the 260 gr lead bullet, at least at original velovity for the cartridge. If it were me, I would try a charge of 4198 equal to 40% of thde original BP charge. A bit of filler will probably help; dacron, cotton, TP, etc. 65 gr x 40% = 26 gr for the math challenged. That's what the dog says anyway!

BTW, I want to try this, I just need a mould for a correct dia 260.

[bullshot]

I have a Cimerron High Wall in 40-65 that I have been having poor luck developing an accurate load. I am also using the RCBS 300 csa bullet. My rifle doesn't like any of the faster burning powders however it loves the slow burners. I got really good results with accurate 8700, that must have been the reason they discontinued it. I now use WC-872. It will shoot 1--1 1/2' at 100 yds ok for my old eyes and iron sights.

[badgeredd]

I have not tried the 260 gr bullet (yet) in my .40-65 nor have I used 4198 in it. I HAVE tried 4759 with 210 gr hollowpoint revolver bullets. That load shot about 2' @ 100 yd with barrel sights from a Shiloh 16" twist barrel
I don't see why 4198 won't work with the 260 gr lead bullet, at least at original velovity for the cartridge. If it were me, I would try a charge of 4198 equal to 40% of thde original BP charge. A bit of filler will probably help; dacron, cotton, TP, etc. 65 gr x 40% = 26 gr for the math challenged. That's what the dog says anyway!

BTW, I want to try this, I just need a mould for a correct dia 260.

I purchased some commercial casts from "Bullet Meister Bullets" in .408 diameter. Like I said originally, I didn't really know where to start so I just got some! I have used the BP and also used some Hodgdon Triple Seven. Both shot well but I hate the cleanup (read as lazy at times) so decided to try the 4198. Gonna try H4198 next and I did get permission to get a mold for the 300s. It is ordered before she changes her mind :-D !!!!! I started to make a punch and die today for the card wads to try them out too. Sure is fun to play with the replica.

BTW I started with 25 grains and finallized at 30. Again, I need to chrono it to see what speed I'm getting.

[badgeredd]

I have a Cimerron High Wall in 40-65 that I have been having poor luck developing an accurate load. I am also using the RCBS 300 csa bullet. My rifle doesn't like any of the faster burning powders however it loves the slow burners. I got really good results with accurate 8700, that must have been the reason they discontinued it. I now use WC-872. It will shoot 1--1 1/2' at 100 yds ok for my old eyes and iron sights.

Oh crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW, I HAVE to go get more powder too!!!!!!!!!!!:roll::-D

[DonH]

I purchased some commercial casts from "Bullet Meister Bullets" in .408 diameter. Like I said originally, I didn't really know where to start so I just got some! I have used the BP and also used some Hodgdon Triple Seven. Both shot well but I hate the cleanup (read as lazy at times) so decided to try the 4198. Gonna try H4198 next and I did get permission to get a mold for the 300s. It is ordered before she changes her mind :-D !!!!! I started to make a punch and die today for the card wads to try them out too. Sure is fun to play with the replica.

BTW I started with 25 grains and finallized at 30. Again, I need to chrono it to see what speed I'm getting.

Probably 98% of my .40-65 shooting has been done with Black powder and 400 gr bullets. Yes, there is clean-up involved. Cleaning the rifle itself is a snap. The brass must be cleaned and that takes some time but not so much. Overall the clean-up time isn't much more than cleaning the bore of a highpower rifle after a day's session with j-bullets. AND, BPC shooting is just about as much fun as one can have with clothes on! The mood has to be right or it is no contest. (I anm not as young as I once was and, you know, that Shiloh hasn't had a single headache!)

Out of curiousity, have you slugged the bore of your rifle? An acquaintance has Pedersoli John Bodine rolling block in .45-70 which has a groove dia. of .461+. It shoots great with the proper size bullet. Point is, just make sure what you are dealing with.

[badgeredd]

Out of curiousity, have you slugged the bore of your rifle? An acquaintance has Pedersoli John Bodine rolling block in .45-70 which has a groove dia. of .461+. It shoots great with the proper size bullet. Point is, just make sure what you are dealing with.

Yep, sure did slug it and I did get .407 therefore the reason I got .408 bullets. I made a bullet sizer to reduce the jacketed 41 Mag bullets to .407 and they come out .408, I suspect a bit of "spring back" but it really doesn't matter cause I just wanted to see if I could resize the bullets as an experiment. IMO the bullets are too short anyway to stabilize correctly and of little real use in this firearm. I certainly appreciate your input and it has given me some things to think about. I love the nostagia and the general atmosphere of BP but like I said I can be a bit lazy about the clean up so I'll likely stick to the smokeless. Thanks again.

[NickSS]

I have heard of usng card wads and I do use them in loads where there is no airspace in the case but I know of three rifles that were rouined with smokeless powder and card wads in the case. The chambers were ringed by the card wad separating a bit from the bullet. This resulted in a pressure spike and a ringed chamber. Be careful using card wads. Most of my 40-65 shooting has been with black powder but I have tried a 300 gr RCBS bullet with 25 gr of AA 5744 that worked real well in my Sharps. Black powder cleanup of brass has become a snap using ceramic tumbling meadia. All I do is drop the cases in the tumbler add a little soultion and tumble away. Brass comes out looking brand new everytime.

[Boz330]

If your barrel is 16 twist, you might have a little trouble with the 300gr boolits, but try it and see. The smokeless load that shot best for me in my C-Sharps Hi-wall was 14gr of Unique with the RCBS 350gr boolit. I did have leading issues with it though. Now days I only shoot black in it. By far easier and quicker to clean up than smokeless. Cases now that is a little more hassel.

Bob

[DonH]

While the vast majority of my .40-65 shooting has been with long heavy bullets, when I have tried short light ones they have shot well. Therefore I don't put much (if any) stock in the over stabilizing theory. At least not at BP cartridge velocities. My 16" twist barrel has handled both ends of the spectrum about equally well. If you will go back through HANDLOADER mag articles from the early 90s and read articles by Steve Garbe on .40-65 Win and .40-60 Maynard you will find the same thing. Original Winchesters were given a slow twist in line with the express or light bullet/higher velocity concept and light bullets is about all they will shoot. Generally speaking, the 16" and 18" twists in use now broaden the usable bullet selection.

[Pathfinder1cav]

Badgeredd,
FWIW: my wife shoots a Pedersoli .40-65 & if you want long range accuracy, try an "Old West Bullet Moulds" 410 gr. NASA bullet over 67 grs. of 3f Goex express- she hit the 1538 yard "Billy Dixon" Indian 3 of 5 shots on the last outing- her girl friend hit it 4 of 5 with the same load. It's all about keeping the ES down- and wind reading of course......

[badgeredd]

Badgeredd,
FWIW: my wife shoots a Pedersoli .40-65 & if you want long range accuracy, try an "Old West Bullet Moulds" 410 gr. NASA bullet over 67 grs. of 3f Goex express- she hit the 1538 yard "Billy Dixon" Indian 3 of 5 shots on the last outing- her girl friend hit it 4 of 5 with the same load. It's all about keeping the ES down- and wind reading of course......

Have you or anyone you know used this load or a similar load for hunting? Specifically whitetails. I'm trying out the Holy Black again and I must admit it isn't all that bad to clean up. So far have tried 250 and 300 grain boolits so now I'm thinking about the 350 or the 385 grain boolits. A 400 or 410 is a reasonable alternative if I can glean some experience as a hunting load from the forum members. I have received a lot of help from several and I appreciate every bit of it. SUre is a hoot to shoot!!!!!!!

[Pathfinder1cav]

Badgeredd,
I Don't hunt myself anymore, though I know a couple of guys that sucessfully use their Sharps rifles with BP hunting- but, they are all .45-70 using around 30:1 alloy- typically 525-550 gr. boolits.
I would think that the .40-65 in 400+ gr. bullet going about 100 fps (about 1350 fps) faster than the .45-70 would be more than adequet for ANY north american game. Big chunks of lead- even when moving slow- have good knock down & penetration. I would be confident in the LR load that I gave you for the .40-65 to take on a 2,000 lb. Buf. at 3-500 yds. Good luck..
PS. here is where you can get that .40 NASA mould (they used to be $95, but may be more now with the cost of brass up 300%), http://www.oldwestbulletmoulds.com/

[Boz330]

Have you or anyone you know used this load or a similar load for hunting? Specifically whitetails. I'm trying out the Holy Black again and I must admit it isn't all that bad to clean up. So far have tried 250 and 300 grain boolits so now I'm thinking about the 350 or the 385 grain boolits. A 400 or 410 is a reasonable alternative if I can glean some experience as a hunting load from the forum members. I have received a lot of help from several and I appreciate every bit of it. SUre is a hoot to shoot!!!!!!!

I've taken 2 with my 40-65 with the RCBS 350gr CSA boolit. The first a very nice 8PT buck at 90 yds DRT. The second a doe at 70yds and she went about 50 yds. Personally I would go for a larger meplat than that boolit has but in the early 90s 40cal molds were scarce. NEI has a nice 370gr mold with what looks to be a 80% meplat that should work well.
Both shots were pass throughs, the buck lengthwise.

Bob

[badgeredd]

Bob,
Thanks. That's what I have been looking for. Going to NEI's site to see when I can afford a mold. I had pretty much decided to try the RCBS 350 but you have convinced me to go a bit heavier. Thanks to everyone else for their imput.

Edd

[Boz330]

Heavier isn't a must, that big meplat should promote better expansion though. There isn't a deer made that the 40 won't shoot through at that kind of weight.



Bob

[timcornish]

I have a recently acquired 1886 in this caliber. I have the 250 gr NEI pb. I hit paydirt right off the bat with 14.5 grs of Trail Boss - very mild and I get 2in groups at 100yds not matter how many I shoot. I tumble lube abd do not size

[NickSS]

I have not used the 40-65 for hunting but have used the smaller 38-56 for deer hunting and that cartridge loaded with black powder and a 250 gr flat point bullet takes deer nicely. I have no doubt that the larger 40 cal round would do any less. I also read an article in single shot exchange magazine several years ago that was written by an old market hunter who was active in the 1860 through 1990s making his living killing deer and other game. One rifle he used was a Sharps in 40-50 Sharps. He used pure lead bullets and black powder. His comment on the caliber was one shot though the lungs and you had a dead deer out to 110 yards (10 rods).

[bushka]

yes , no need for cards or wads with smokeless loads.
imr4759 is supposed to be position insensitive also.


"an old market hunter who was active in the 1860 through 1990s making his living killing deer and other game"

wasnt he the old guy in "little big man"?