Lee Loader musings on time and quality...

[GoodOlBoy]

I love my lee classic loaders (whack-a-moles) I know there are those that hate anything to do with Lee, but honestly the best ammo I have ever made has been almost solely with these loaders. Particularly in 45 long colt, 38 special, and 30-30 Winchester rounds. A few years back, before I started using a press for "everything", I added a old lee hand priming tool, a lee universal depriming die, and a lee carbide sizing die to the mix for my 45s and 38s. I will be honest. I am going back to using my classic loaders with deprime, and resize being done on the press. I get more satisfaction from my lee loaders, I don't know why, but I just do. And honestly it may be psychosomatic, but I get better quality ammo out of them. And since I am not in a "race" to get rounds loaded I am happy with 15 to 20 rounds in a half hour to an hour. Before I had gotten sick with the cancer I had even gotten to the point where I would put on old country radio stations, or even old Jerry Clower CDs and just "putter" around my load bench at night.

Then again I am one of the few people who still uses "cowboy loads" in a 45 long colt to hunt with.

Anybody else NOT bothered by the lack of high volume output?

Had to sell a bunch of stuff to help pay medical bills being out of work. I thank God daily that my wife and family REFUSED to let me sell my old 20 gauge H&R, and my 45 long colts.

GoodOlBoy

[FSR]

Same here. I am going back to my roots in handloading. I don't need 500 rounds a second. There are a bunch of advantages to Lee Loaders and 310 tools. I remember going to bench rest shoots with my dad as a kid and seeing people hand load at the range with these tools.

[bedbugbilly]

GoodOlBoy . . . I don't think you are "alone" in what you say. in fact, it's refreshing to run across folks on this fine site that enjoy the "slower" pace and who appreciate the "old way" of doing things.

As they say . . . Some folks have to have a big expensive Mercedes and others are content with a very basic Ford or Chevy . . . but in the end . . it's not the "cost" of the vehicle . . . it's about "getting there" . . . and a less expensive Ford or Chevy will still do the job.

I love 38s - really like 38 Colt Short/Long and Special. I shot BP for 50+ years until I discovered "cartridges" again. Most of my revolvers are "vintage" . . I much prefer them. I'm now getting set up to load 45 Colt/Schofiedl and 32/20. All I shoot is "cast" and I've been bending over an old Ideal 10# pot with a Lyman bottom pour dipper for more than 50 years - have cast many many round balls, minies and now boolits for my reloading.

I recently picked up an older Lee whack-a-mole for 38 special and one for 32/20. Haven't used them yet but plan on it as I've never done it before. I do use Lyman 310 tongs/dies and even several old Ideal tong tools. I have a Lee 4 hole turret and an old RCBS Jr3 that I use but there is just something very satisfying about using the "hand tools" to reload.

For me, it's not about the "quantity" that I can reload . . it's about the whole process and I just prefer to do it the "old way" if I can and if I have the time. My latest project was to get an old 1905 Danzig GEW98 8mm Mauser shooting again. I knew the WWI vet well that brought it home in 1919 - it hadn't been fired since then. I'm having a lot of fun shooting cat sneeze lead rounds and while I do have dies to load not he single stage, I find myself gravitating to my 310 set of dies and tongs . . . and they work very well.

I pretty much shoot "cowboy" loads . . never "push" the limit. All I do is plink . . . I used to shoot competition with rifled musket and round ball and never really liked it . . . some are just too "competitive" and it took the fun out of it. I'd rather get together with a bunch of guys like I used to do and shoot a front stuffer at novelty targets . . . everybody giving everybody else "the berries" as they were trying to shoot and nobody taking it seriously. Some of the best times I remember were when we'd get together, everyone bringing a "trinket" to throw on the blanket for a prize and when the shoot was over, everybody got to pick a prize based on their standing that day. Everybody went home a "winner" and the whole afternoon just flew by because everyone was having so much fun.

Yea . . a lot of folks knock Lee stuff and knock the old classic loading kits . . . but they worked and let's face it, they made it possible for a lot of folks to reload without a great expense. As I said, I haven't tired mine yet but I do look forward to it. Maybe one of the things about getting and being older is that a person has the "mileage" to realize that the "simpler" things in life are what is really important.

So no . . . you are certainly "not alone" and there are a lot of us out there who are just like you . . . maybe we should form a club? :-)

[joesig]

Looking at the going price for used Lee Loaders on eBay, you are far from alone!

Haven't bought/tried one in a pistol cartridge but yes, reloading rifle is relaxing. Been trying to convert a few over to be CB friendly too. As manufactured, they are a bid snug for the slightly oversized CBs.

[EDG]

I don't load with any of those tool but I have deprimed tens of thousands of rounds with the .22 Cal base and punch since about 1969.

The Lee whack a moles are the gateway drug to our past time and for that I am greatful.

[mdi]

I still have 5 Lee Loaders and I'll take one out and pound out some reloads whenever I feel "retro". I've only had "pops" when priming my .44s and none on my other pistol calibers or rifle caliber loaders, so I often prime my .44s with an arbor press and loader. I remember reading that the 1,000 yard record for smallest group was held by a shooter that used a Lee Loader for reloading his target ammo. I'm no where near that level, but my 30-30, 303 British and 7.62x54r Lee Loaders turn out some pretty good/accurate ammo!

[GoodOlBoy]

And don't forget fellers Lee will custom sell you a flaring tool (like comes in the pistol kit) for just about ANY caliber you could ask for for a whole $8 plus S&H. If they don't list it under the "custom" flaring tool order, just call customer service, they can get it done. I bought one for my 30-30 set, and one for my 45-70 set soon as I found out about them, makes loading cast in rifle calibers alot easier!

GoodOlBoy

[gpidaho]

mdj: I like to use the Lee loaders, and have them for 308win, 30-30win, 303brit and the 7.62X54. With cases that are fired in the Brit or the Mosin they sure help save the brass. As I've posted before, sort of a poor mans Wilson hand die. With shim washers or an arbor press to control the length they do a pretty fair job of partial neck sizing also. I LIKE 'M! GP

[mdi]

mdj: I like to use the Lee loaders, and have them for 308win, 30-30win, 303brit and the 7.62X54. With cases that are fired in the Brit or the Mosin they sure help save the brass. As I've posted before, sort of a poor mans Wilson hand die. With shim washers or an arbor press to control the length they do a pretty fair job of partial neck sizing also. I LIKE 'M! GP

Yep, as an "entry level" "primitive" tool they sure have a lot going for them!

[barrabruce]

I like my poor mans wilson dies.
I can load bloody good ammo with it.
Well I reckon as good as I'm gunna get with out a custom cut barrel and matching dies and molds.

Now if I wanted to squeeze out the last little bit of accuracy then a custom made pound dies would be the ticket.
I wonder if they still make them for guns when the chamber them these days.
Sure as hell would be nice.

Makes me pay more attention to the detail of things than trying to whack'em through a press.

If I wanted to go to the next level in cast bullet shooting then it's gunna get expensive real fast.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I read an article by a guy who was researching the .400 Whelen. He actually got a hold of The Col's dies for this caliber. They were called hand dies and work just about the same as a Lee loader or more properly Wilson reloading dies.

What R. Lee did was to consolidate several functions into one die body make these kits affordable so that anyone could reload ammo. My first one cost $9.95 in 1971 I still have it.

Anyone who thinks the ammo loaded with these kits is substandard or in some way inferior to ammo loaded on a press doesn't really understand the game very well.

The only thing these dies give up is speed, and if you know how to use them well they don't even give up very much speed either. There is a video somewhere on Youtube of a guy reloading a cartridge in like 35 seconds from start to finish. It would take you longer than that just to change dies in a press.

When it comes to output for less than 50 rounds you can't beat a Lee Loader. Even up to 100 rounds you are still well within in the time window. Past that you can produce more with a press, but really the only way presses can truly shine is when you go progressive. A single stage press is just a different way of doing the same things Lee Loaders do without the Hammer.

Randy

[BullRunBear]

You are speaking for me. The pace of my shooting is slower these days but I'm enjoying it more. The Lee Loaders suit me fine, especially when working up new loads. And they are the cat's pajamas for making gallery, round ball loads for old bolt action battle rifles and a Winchester 94 I load one at a time. I use a Lee turret press for 38 specials, 44 specials, and 32 Longs. I shoot more of them than anything else and use those calibers to teach newcomers to center fire ammo. The Loaders are also a great teaching tool when introducing folks to reloading.

[cajun shooter]

In 1968, my wife and I had a new son and I was sitting on the living room floor with my 38 spl. Lee Kit. After the 3rd primer went off in the seating stage, my wife rose from the sofa with our son in her arms while screaming that I was going to blow all of us and the house to the heavens.
My new hobby and the use of it was relegated to the outside storage building.
I now use a Lee hand press for those type duties which is also a great way to deprime my 45-70 BP rounds in the field.

[michiganmike]

I will be brief and give my hearty "Yea and amen." to the posts above. I have the Lee single stage press with the "breech lock bushing." I love it. I have two sets of dies for my 7mm-08. One is for my RCBS 168 gr. and the second is for the Loverin style 145 grain. Everything is ready to go. I only have to lock the dies into the press and go. Beyond the set up, I also like to take my time.

The result is that it produces rounds that are reliably accurate. The Lee has given me no reason to put the money down for a press that costs 4-5X the cost.

MichiganMike

[castalott]

I have 2 of the Lee kits that I haven't used. But I, too ,long for a slower paced life. I have the Dillons and the LNL and Lee turret but look longingly at the Rock Chucker again. I think about going slow and enjoying the reloading process... Something to be said for a process that brings simple , calm, quiet pleasure.

I guess as you get older, one appreciates the finer things.


GoodOlBoy....Having fought cancer myself, I will say Sincere Prayers for you to have Health, Faith, Love, Mercy, Forgiveness, and may God also replenish you with the things you love.

Dale

[castalott]

As I was sitting here, I realized I have regressed. I used to shoot a lot of rimless ( 308/8mm/45auto,8mm) but now I have gone back to shoot rimmed more ( 38special, 30/30)

Some of that old stuff just works for me....

Dale

[MBTcustom]

There are no flies on a Lee Loader. The part I love best is the seater. Absolutely the most accurate way to seat a bullet ever devised by man. In fact, I made a custom seating die for the 30XCB cartridge that was made from a piece of 30 caliber barrel, reamed with the chamber reamer that rendered the chamber in the rifle. This seater works exactly like the Lee Loader seater. It has a precision diameter that guides the bullet into the neck absolutely straight. When checking ammunition made with jacketed bullets with my precision MBT run out gauge, the tips and ogive of the bullets were running out less than .0004 inches, which for all intents and purposes is perfect.
The Lee Loader can't usually catch those numbers simply because the cartridge is not as supported, but I'm here to tell you it doesn't miss it by much.
The only downside to the Lee Loader system is that it's a little bit slow, and it can't FL size the brass, so with full pressure loads, you're only going to get about 5 shots and then the bolt is getting really stiff to open and close, and you have to go to a press with a FL die to set things back and start fresh.
Other than that, it's all that and a bag of chips.

Standing in the shop looking at the racks of reloading gear, the RCBS Rockchucker, the Dillon 550, the three powder measures, the scales, the decapping dies, the flaring dies, the tumbler, the media separator, the primer seating systems, and all the rest of the junk that I would be hard pressed to fit in my pickup truck,
all while holding the small Lee Loader in my hand and knowing that it can do everything all that other junk can do nearly as well, is a very surreal feeling that helps keep me grounded with what's really important.

Give me a pound of powder, 100 primers, 10 pieces of brass and a handfull of lubed bullets, and I really don't need all that stuff to have a very good time shooting accurate bullets. Just let me slide over the bench and grab a rubber hammer before you shut the door. :wink:

Let me share an experience I had with my nephew, as an excellent example of how wonderful the Lee Loader is:
He wanted to get into reloading a few years ago for his deer rifle (a Russian Mosin Negant with a sewer pipe barrel). He had 20 pieces of Prvi Partisan brass to his name, and that had lasted him the previous 3 years and put about 5 deer in the freezer, but he could not get another box of ammunition anywhere.
I got him set up with a Lee loader, a pound of powder (had to use something other than what was in the chart because the local hardware store didn't stock it), a custom dipper made from a piece of cut down 30-06 brass and 3" of brazing rod soldered to the side, a couple hundred primers, and a box of bullets. I showed him how to use these tools and explained the safety rules of reloading to him, and he (being a fairly intelligent farm raised young fellow) was surprised and pleased to see how easy it was to reload his empty brass cases.

I went up to hunt with my brother a year later and got there about 9:00 at night the day before the hunt. I walked through the door of their country mobile home, and saw my nephew sitting on the floor making his reload. He informed me that he had used the last 5 rounds from the previous year to check zero on his rifle earlier that day, and was reloading for the next day's hunt.
He still had most of the box of bullets, and had used only about three rows of primers. What would have held me for two range sessions was probably a 30 year supply for this young man.
I confess, I was envious that reloading was such a simple matter for him in comparison with my understanding of this hobby.
As far as I know he is still working with those tools and components I gave him and he's still dragging deer out of the woods with that old Russian beater.
All thanks to the incomparable
Lee Loader.

[Texantothecore]

I am with you on all points. When you are a single shot kind of guy and each shot is its own competition quantity means a lot less. I also get a kick out of carrying a reloading outfit in my back pocket. Can't do that with a Rochchuker.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was recovering tumbled cases from my tumbler today, and having to deal with those pesky kernels of crushed walnut hulls that get stuck in the flash hole.

I have one of those large pretzel shaped paper clips with one leg bent out that I normally use for this task.

Today I had a big epiphany and I went over and got my .30 cal Lee Punch out of my decapping tool box and dropped it into the case neck and low and behold, it found the flash hole with no fuss and knocked the offending particle out.

This is my new way to do this.

I have bases and punches for all calibers I load and many overlap, so I can always find something that will work. They are dead simple fail safe tools that will always be there. In fact I could have made all of them in my shop, however I couldn't make them for $5 each!

These are the tools to use when you just need to knock out a few primers or even need to knock out some live primers. Using these tools and a little Sinclair Arbor press it is almost impossible to set off a primer. Done it a thousand times never set one off yet. You do need to be careful????? and keep your face out of the way. DUH@!!

The one complaint I hear most about the Lee Loader is setting off primers when using the base to install them. I have learned that if you start the primer in the case and then use the tool to seat it all the way, you will have less problems.

I never used that part of the tool after the first time. I bought a Lee Priming the day after I got my first Lee Loader and still have it along with another one that I found recently with a bunch of case holders.

Randy

[Maximumbob54]

I only recently bought my first Lee Loader and I love everything about it but the hammer part. It just gets old is all and I find it awkward. So of course I get the most unoriginal idea about it and start looking up what arbor press would work so much better.

Does anyone have a favored model that works just right for this application???

[GoodOlBoy]

resizing it what burns me out quickest on the lee loaders. But a carbide die from lee in a single stage press hurries that along nicely.

never used an arbor press.. dunno much about them honestly

GoodOlBoy

[Mtnfolk75]

I also started loading on Lee Loaders back in the early 70's, loaded 38/357, 12 Gauge & 300 WinMag. Those old Whack-a-Mole dies are long gone, but they did make GOOD ammo. I upgraded to a RCBS Single Stage Rockchucker, that I still use BTW, in 1975. I have had other Lee Loader sets over the years, at one time I had 7 or 8 sets ( Back-ups to what ever I was loading & shooting then ). Like W.R. Buchanan, I have used a LEE depriming rod to clear flash holes for the last 40 or so years that I have been tumbling sized brass. I have narrowed my shooting down to .38 Special & 9mm in handguns, .223 Remington & .270 Winchester in rifles now, and have been seriously considering getting Lee Loaders as back-ups again. This thread may just be the catalyst needed to start my searching ......[smilie=s:

BTW, I have already returned to the Rockchucker as my only press, just got tired of the constant tinkering required with the Blue Progressives I've had over the years ......;-)

[GhostHawk]

I started long ago reloading .243 on a Lee Loader.

I've come up in the world some, I use a Lee Hand press now, although I have 2 other larger Lee presses in operation.

Lee flare tool pretty much lives in the biggest one, and the other is mounted upside and is devoted almost exclusively to bullet sizing and gas check crimping duties. Upside down means the checks don't fall off when you take your finger away.
Was not too bad with the bigger bullets right side up but those little .224 checks are so small and fall at the drop of a hat.

[Dave Bulla]

Yup! Use them all the time.

A couple points though. Someone earlier mentioned having issues loading cast boolits due to their larger than jacketed size. I ran into that also but there is a simple fix. All you do is after sizing, lift the die body of the case to flare the mouth. (The flare tools come with handgun calibers but for rifles can be bought separately from Lee) Charge the case with powder while out of the die, then set the boolit on the case mouth and set the die back over the stack and seat normally. All you are doing is NOT trying to drop or push the boolit through the die (cast boolits are often too large and will get sized down if you force them).

Also, for flare tools, before you order anything custom made, consider the caliber and determine if it crosses to any handgun calibers. For example, 35 Remington can use a flare tool from the 357 kit, 45-70 can use one from a 45 colt kit etc. I believe the 30 carbine MAY come with a flare tool that would work for any 30 call rifle set. You get the idea. The Lee website has parts listed for all the kits and most are surprisingly cheap. I've bought quite a few over the years to fill out partial kits. I've always had the parts at my door in 2 to 3 days too.

[WRideout]

I never used a Lee loader for metallic, but I did have one for 20 ga shotshell, which I used for quite a while. Sometimes I had trouble getting a tight crimp, but then I found that I could squeeze the whole unit between two flats on the moving parts of my 12 ga press; that cured the problem. I sold the loader off to someone on this forum, when I no longer had a 20 ga shotgun.

A friend of mine, who shoots mostly semi-auto pistols, and has never reloaded asked me what model of Dillon progressive he should buy. I told him to go with a single stage press, and work up to the progressive. I am not at all sure why people love those progressives, but I have never felt a need.

Wayne

[Wayne Smith]

I only recently bought my first Lee Loader and I love everything about it but the hammer part. It just gets old is all and I find it awkward. So of course I get the most unoriginal idea about it and start looking up what arbor press would work so much better.

Does anyone have a favored model that works just right for this application???

I use my Harbor Freight 10 (5?) ton press. It is severe overkill, but it is inexpensive, and i have one because of that. I have turned wooden plugs to compress BP with it, too.

I started with the Lee Loader - two of them, actually. A 30-30 for my Dad's rifle, and a 16ga. for my single shot shotgun. I was 16. A lifetime later (now 62) I am learning to use the 310 tool.

[glockmeister]

I have never had a Lee Classic Loader. Started out with a RCBS single stage in 1972 and still have and use it. I had a RL550B for a while but quit using it and back to my RCBS. I now also have a Lee Classic Turret 4 hole press, like it because it drops the spent primers down the center of the ram and into a plastic coke bottle. I have disabled the progressive feature and use it as a single stage. Is it slower, yes, but I'm retired and no longer in a big hurry. I may get a Lee Loader or the hand held loader just to play with. I also use a Lee primer tool. I now enjoy life in the SLOW lane. Y'all take care, John.:coffee:

[condorjohn]

A friend of mine, who shoots mostly semi-auto pistols, and has never reloaded asked me what model of Dillon progressive he should buy. I told him to go with a single stage press, and work up to the progressive. I am not at all sure why people love those progressives, but I have never felt a need.

Wayne[/QUOTE]

I think it's because they were told "Every time you pull the handle. a loaded shell drops out". Not quite that easy...

[myg30]

I too started reloading with a lee loader in 30-30 back in 83 ( not long ago) and now have several that I use from time to time. I single stage load rifle and some pistol as I'm never in a hurry to reload. My SDB does get to load other pistol that I might need to do a quantity of when shooting at a friends. Other than that the lee single stage and hand loaders trump.

Nothing tickles me more than a new reloader/caster asking " What's the fastest way...", especially talking casting boolits. My reply is generally Never be in a hurry to cast or reload !
It's the fastest way to get hurt !!!

Mike

[Lefty Red]

I kept my 16 H&R feed with a Lee Loader when growing. At one time, I had the old black and red cardboard boxed loaders in 270, 30/06, 30/30, 243, 38, 44, 45LC, 303, and 45/70. Lost them in a divorced and knowing her she threw them away not knowing what they were worth.

I have one in 44 Magnum and 45/70 and 303 now.

I sold off all of my progressive presses and right now a lone LEE Classic Single Stage sits in the bench to load my single shot pistols in 300 BO and 44mag. I wish I had a Lee Loader in 300 BO to build up loads at the range. Making rounds at the range always bring folks around to ask questions.

Jerry

[Bmi48219]

I started with a 12 gauge Lee Loader and several cases of Remington hi base paper shells in the 60's. Had several since, .38/357, 9mm, 41 mag, 30-30 & 30 carbine. Still use the 9 & 30 carbine. The bullet seating stud on the 9 will loosen & drift off the setting every 5-10 rounds. Anyone have a fix?

[mdi]

I have never had a Lee Classic Loader. Started out with a RCBS single stage in 1972 and still have and use it. I had a RL550B for a while but quit using it and back to my RCBS. I now also have a Lee Classic Turret 4 hole press, like it because it drops the spent primers down the center of the ram and into a plastic coke bottle. I have disabled the progressive feature and use it as a single stage. Is it slower, yes, but I'm retired and no longer in a big hurry. I may get a Lee Loader or the hand held loader just to play with. I also use a Lee primer tool. I now enjoy life in the SLOW lane. Y'all take care, John.:coffee:
I got my first Lee Loader, 38 Special, in 1969 and used it, just like the instructions said for about 18 months before I could afford a scale, then mebbe a year after that I got my first press and dies. I think my introduction to reloading via a Lee Loader was very beneficial to my understanding of the process. I still own 4 even though I have 4 presses, 4 powder measures, and 3.2 metric tons of assorted reloading tools.

I got my Lee turret 14 years ago and disabled the auto index 13.9 years ago when trying to set up the press and it indexed when I didn't want it to. I prefer batch loading and I'll process mebbe 100-300 rounds at a time doing one or two operations (my 45 ACP and 9mm loading; size/deprime and flare. Next time mebbe prime, then, on another occasion, charge and seat bullets). I have never had any need for 500 rounds an hour even when I was working 50 hours per week, so batch loading on my hand indexing turret works best for me (I like reloading and if I reloaded all my needed ammo in an hour, then what would I do for fun?).

Wouldn't have been able to do any of this if it without the Lee Loader...

[cliff55]

First lee in 380 auto 1972 can't tell you where it went.
Still have my 22 hornet set from 1977.
Let my 38/357 go with the RBK when I sold it.
Loaded good ammo. Still at home in 72 Mom was not impresed when i set off a primer.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Actually, the idea of using an arbor press isn't a new one. It's been mentioned several times in other threads and seems to work quite well, so if the hammering bothers you it would seem that you're on the right track.

I started my reloading adventure with a Lee Loader in .38 Special in 1966. Then another, followed by another, and things just grew from there.
Now I have a whole shop full of stuff, but haven't used a Lee Loader in years. Like EDG mentioned, I do very often use the base and depriming punches to knock out old primers before putting the cases in the tumbler. I think the real turnoff was the occasional primer going off during the seating operation, powder burns on the fingers, and the priming rod launching up and smacking the ceiling. That caused me to buy an RCBS squeezer priming tool, but I usually set the new primers with the priming arm in my press. Occasionally though, depending on what and how much I'm loading I'll seat the primers with a 310 tool because I can do that at the kitchen table instead of being out in the shop.

[Screwbolts]

This is a great older thread, as I scanned threw it I didn't see reference to the I believe it was 1982, that the world record 1000 yard group at that time was hand loaded at the bench with a LEE loader that was used to load the 300 win mag case used to shot the group.

Ken

[SSGOldfart]

I carried my 308 and a 222 to Vietnam with me,as well as a 30-06 310 tool. Spent many a hour just loading because we could we made a few that shouldn't be shot just in case Charlie got a hold of them, them were some really good times even in the bad place.I wouldn't want to do it again,but I miss those brothers.:redneck: