SAECO mould on Lee Handles (some drilling required)

[ohland]

Folks, when the days are nice, REAL manly-men's thoughts turn to... casting!

With a song in my heart, I grabbed my new SAECO #415 41 calibre 220gr TCGC mould and I strode off into history! And soon found out that the SAECO mould pins are 3/16"... and RCBS pins are 1/8".... So while the modified Lee mould handles (jaws milled to .300" thick) fit the SAECO, the pins... didn't fit the jaws. Erk. Here comes MATH.

RCBS mould pins are .125, the RCBS mould handle mounting hole is @ .166, so we got about .040 bigger hole than pin. The wall thickness (distance from the side of the jaw to the inside of the screw hole) is .040".

Looking at the modified Lee handles, the wall was .050, hole was @ .170-ish. For reasons which the human race is incapable of understanding, I chose to use a 13/64 drill bit, roughly .203-ish in size.

Using the exclusive, patented Lūb Monkey centering technique, I used a #3 center drill to position the jaw on-centre.
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And then I swapped out the center drill, chucked up the 13/64, and drilled my way into history! Well, opened the holes up. NOTE: Whatever Lee used, it's harder than woodpecker lips. I went slow, and added cutting fluid. When I set up the second jaw, I added another clamp, the original set-up would have less resistance to rotation in case the bit grabbed.
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Right now, the SAECO mould is working smoothly on the modified Lee handles. Yet to finish adjusting the screw tension so the plate swings better... the SAECO looks good enough to eat... yum...

[MT Chambers]

Saeco are great molds for sure but, you have to be careful because every time I've enlarged the pin holes on that handle metal, they break shortly afterwards.

[ohland]

you have to be careful because every time I've enlarged the pin holes on that handle metal, they break shortly afterwards.

UPDATE: What size did you drill to? Did you use a 118, 135, or mill? Reminds me when I drilled plexiglass with 118 (135 wouldn't work either) and the plexi would crack (need a brad point!). Perhaps a centre cutting mill could reduce or eliminate stresses from cutting... Glad the Lee handles are as cheap as I am... (but I ain't easy!)

I was looking at the RCBS wall thickness, and the wall looks paper thin! I had thought of off-setting the drill towards the outside of the jaws, but to me that entails lots of indicating and MATH. When I diddled my way through choosing my drill, the difference was widening the original Lee holes @ .008 on a side (or so my faulty MATH suggests). When I got done drilling, there was no bulge from drilling that I noticed.

If the odd copper-toned metal that Lee uses is prone to fracture, is that stuff PIM or sintered or whatever? I will find out the new wall thickness and strength after I cast. Just hope there isn't a "snap" and we get to find out what the sound of one mould block half closing sounds like....

While the SAECO and RCBS use the same size allen set screw size to hold the sprue plate screw in place, RCBS uses a hex-head bolt as a sprue plate screw, and the SAECO uses a larger allen screw as a sprue plate screw... More tools. The SAECO uses a standard screwdriver to remove the pivot pins like Lyman, and the RCBS uses an allen screw... Different...

[dkf]

I drilled a pair of my Lee handles out. New holes measure .188", wall left is .050". I was too lazy to clamp in the mill and find the hole centers and just drilled them thru at the existing holes. I indicate enough stuff in a days time, I just wanted to cast.

[ohland]

just wanted to cast.

Just got done with casting some boolits with the modified Lee handles, no problems with the handles at all. Just gotta loosen the sprue plate screw a skosh... base fill-out is hit r miss. One boolit is sharp, the other rounded. Sometimes both sharp. Others part fill and sharp.... Still, first session with the 415. Now I gotta do a hardness test on the WW boolit, and the other on the 15lb 20:1 and 5 lb WW. Expecting around 12 BHN for the air cooled WW, a bit less for the 20:1 leaning alloy...

[kiwi]

Why not buy a set of SAECO handles far superior to the LEE rubbish, I bought 2 SAECO handles in 1990 along with several moulds never had a problem just pick them up and go, bought a LEE 6 six cavity handle 3 years ago the wood split with in a year I have glued them up twice they stay on the only mould
I have that needs them and no it's not a LEE, I don't get why people bother with cheap gear when the good stuff will last a live time.

[ohland]

Why not buy a set of SAECO handles

Well, the Lee handles are still holding together... If these fall apart, I'll do what I have to do. Until then, I'll hold onto my wallet. I bought three Lee handles for $27, IIRC.

In the words of a machine shop owner, "buy the accuracy you need"

[dkf]

I got one Saeco mold (and won't likely ever buy another) so I'm not buying a set of oddball Saeco handles for one mold.

[ohland]

I got one Saeco mold (and won't likely ever buy another) so I'm not buying a set of oddball Saeco handles for one mold.

Is that because this one SAECO mould has so filled your every whim, so you sit there and hug yourself when you think of it? The one I just bought seems well finished, the set screw and the sprue plate screw leave me wondering, it seems a little wishy-washy when I set the sprue plate screw. The RCBS, there's little doubt. I migh replace the socket button head on the SAECO with a hex head. I'll give er a few more casting sessions.

Fit n finish seem superb. I think I'll boil the blocks before I use them again, denatured alcohol seemed to leave some preservative still in the cavities, when I smoked 'em, I saw moist spots in the grooves.

[texassako]

I have a couple I use on a set of Lee handles I drilled out on the drill press just letting the bit follow the old hole. The handles have held up for a couple of years now interchanging all different brands of molds. The only problem is I keep forgetting which set has the bigger holes, and then forget I forgot and don't mark them when I am done.

[dkf]

Is that because this one SAECO mould has so filled your every whim, so you sit there and hug yourself when you think of it? The one I just bought seems well finished, the set screw and the sprue plate screw leave me wondering, it seems a little wishy-washy when I set the sprue plate screw. The RCBS, there's little doubt. I migh replace the socket button head on the SAECO with a hex head. I'll give er a few more casting sessions.

Fit n finish seem superb. I think I'll boil the blocks before I use them again, denatured alcohol seemed to leave some preservative still in the cavities, when I smoked 'em, I saw moist spots in the grooves.

They are nice molds and the iron is of good quality. My issue is the mold drops .356"-.3565" bullets which is entirely too small. So I have to lap the darn thing to get it to a useable size, which is much more of a pain on an iron mold. The one handle pin goes in and out hard and a standard tap don't fit in the lower hole so I can't tap out mold block. Luckily I have a split adjustable die to shave a little off the pin threads. Plus the alignment pins stick like crazy, even after chamfering the holes. I got MP, Lee, Lyman, Accurate, ACE and NOE molds and I never had such binding alignment pins.

I'd rather just spend the money on an MP, NOE, Accurate, LBT and etc that will drop the size I want and take my Lee or MP handles.

[MT Chambers]

I agree with Kiwi, Saeco molds (and handles) are as good as it gets, I'm sorry for the one thats undersized, I realize that the Lees are always bang-on.

[dkf]

No Lees have issues but Lees are a fraction of the cost of a Saeco. For what Saeco charges there is no excuse.

[Dragonheart]

Glad you had success with the Lee Handles. I personally tried it once and even though the drilled Lee handles fit my Saeco they were awkward and fought lining up properly. Since my Saeco molds are a lifetime investment, I decided to abandon the pursuit and just buy the more expensive Saeco Handles that work as intended. As for sprue plate problems I have found every mold I have has benefited by sanding out the mill marks and burrs, then polishing off the top of the plate and pour holes to a mirror finish. The sprue once cut, just drops off with no effort.

[RKJ]

I've got 2 Saeco molds (bought here from members) and one has Saeco handles the other doesn't. I read that Lee handles would work if the holes were drilled out a little so for the price I decided to try it. A 3/64 drill bit (IIRC) and a very short time later I've got a working mold (which works great BTW). I haven't had any problems but if I do I'll cross that bridge then.

[SteveS]

I just want to point out that RCBS handles work well on Saeco molds too, just in case anyone is interested.

I agree that for what a Saeco mold costs, ($100+) you should be getting the best. I have four, 2 cavity Saecos and they are the best iron molds I've seen.

dkf, which mold is giving you the problem?

[dkf]

Its a #377 122gr TCBB.

[SteveS]

I think the #377 is designed to cast a .356 diameter. Lapping might work to increase it but a change of alloy and casting temp might work and be easier.

I'm really not sure about the alignment pins and handle screw but customer service at Redding is top notch, you could try giving them a call. I bet they will help you out.

Yesterday, I was reading this thread while still on my first cup of morning coffee and was concentrating on the Lee handles to the exclusion of the fact that ohland had already worked with the RCBS handles. I'm not sure why mine work other than to say both the molds and handles were bought 25+ years ago and could be manufactured to different dimensions.

[ohland]

had already worked with the RCBS handles. ... handles were bought 25+ years ago and could be manufactured to different dimensions.

My RCBS handles are @ 4 years old. I didn't want to take them off my 32-170-FN, so I whipped out a Lee. Only after I discovered the size mismatch did I start to measure.

[ohland]

Plus the alignment pins stick like crazy

Mmm, you can adjust the pins so they "shuck" nicely. RCBS does a nice job of explaining pin adjustment. When I got my RCBS 243-095-FN, I thought it was dorked due to the effort to pull the jaws apart on the handles. After asking RCBS tech spt, I used a vise to squeeze the pins back into the mould half just a skosh.

IF the area around the pin is high, then you could pop the pin out and CAREFULLY use fine grit sandpaper and a flat surface behind it to level around the pins. Personally, I'd send it back to SAECO. If there is a build-up of lead around the pins, use a non-scoring material to scrape it off (brass).

And now, for a word on the matter by RCBS:

And now, a look at The RCBS Cast Bullet Manual (Book of Armaments), “RCBS Cast Bullet Manual, Number 1”, RCBS, CCI, and Speer Research Staffs, Omark Industries, Lewiston, ID, 83501 Dec 1986. ISBN# 0-935632-07-7 ( hard Bound ) or ISBN# 0-935632-08-5 ( soft bound ) ASIN: B000V2O62U? ASIN: B000Y8AYYK

MOULD ABUSE Page 40 -
"As a final check, the blocks should feel "sticky" when carefully opening them with the handles"

FITTING THE BLOCKS Page 41 -
"Loose fitting mould blocks can be tightened up, one pin at a time, independently. It is best to remove the sprue plate. Measure and record the distance from the back of the mould to the end of the pin with a micrometer or good caliper. With a close fitting punch, drive the pin several thousandths of an inch further out. Tap lightly at first and measure intil you get the "feel" for how much it takes to move the pin. Don't worry about driving it too far out, it can be tapped back just as easily.

Rotate the mould block halves so that only the one alignment pin engages. It is then a simple matter of trial and error tapping the pin back and forth until it engages properly. The functional test for the single pin is that you should just barely be able to close it on a single pin with your fingers. Check against a light source. Fit the other pin in the same manner.

Moulds with enlarged, out of round holes can be salvaged with the judicious use of a countersink. The operation is best left to a machinist or gunsmith. RCBS blocks may be returned to the factory for repairs."

[dkf]

The alignment pins stick out too far which is causing the sticking. I have a 20ton press but I did not want to risk the press fit being too tight and damaging the pins. Chamfering the holes reduced sticking enough. It looks to me like the one handle pin hole is drilled crooked and that is why it binds some. As for the .356" size it is pretty worthless for most cast boolit shooters. My .380/9mm Lyman mold even drops at .358" or a hair over.

[ohland]

It looks.. like the one handle pin hole is drilled crooked and that is why it binds some

Ring, ring? Hello SAECO, we have a problem here...