Balloon head 45 LC?

[GoodOlBoy]

Does anybody still make balloon head brass for the 45 long colt? I have collected a couple or three pieces over the years, but the more I think about going back to pure black in my old 45 long colts the more I am thinking about using original balloon head brass to get a "full load" of black powder in the case.

Just curious.

GoodOlBoy

[StrawHat]

Which "full load" are you trying to duplicate? The military load and the one that really earned the 45 long Colt it's reputation was supposedly less than the civilian load.

Either way, I am not aware of anyone currently making the brass you want. I reload the 45 long Colt with modern brass and black powder. With a 7 1/2" barrel I approach 950 fps with a 260 grain boolit, using GOEX. Going with Olde Eynsford or Swiss should get you more velocity. I am happy with GOEX in my revolvers.

Kevin

[smokeywolf]

Because of the potential for liability, I doubt that you will find modern made balloon head cases.

Got to agree with StrawHat that with Swiss or OE you could probably come close enough to producing a duplicate 19th century factory load that any differences would be immeasurable.

[cajun shooter]

You may load the 40 grain original 45 Colt BP load with todays brass. It just requires a compression die and a powder like the Goex OE or Swiss powders. Loading the 45 Colt case with these powders in 3F will give the shooter a very good load at 950-1000 fps with no compression other than the bullet seating stage.

[elk hunter]

PM sent.

[Char-Gar]

I have a lot of about 100 old balloon head 45 Colt cases, that I still use. They can be a PITA to reload as theyh don't have the extractor cut above the rim as do recent cases. This means every shell holder made in the last 50 years won't fit them.

I used an old Lyman Shell Resizer with my arbor press to full length resize them and a Lyman 310 tool for the other operations. They also vary quite a bit in rim thickness and can give issues in some cylinders.

[smkummer]

Char Gar above said it right, I have to be very careful with modern shell holders to make it work. And as stated, if you somewhat compress, you will get close in modern cases. I sold some balloon cases here about 2 years ago and they were snapped up quick. I now have about 6, that I do load with black at 40 grains FFFg. I have not chronograghed but they sure appear as powerful as 9 grains Unique and a Lyman 250 bullet.

[John Boy]

Does anybody still make balloon head brass for the 45 long colt?
Nobody makes them today

[GoodOlBoy]

ok those without the cut above the rim are folded cases I was told, and balloon head cases were like a few old WW-Super cases I have. Inside the primer pocket actually forms kind of a pedestal in the center of the case with space all around it. After I typed this I did a search and sure enough most "semi-balloon head" don't have the cut above the rim. When I first read that I was thinking about the old "folded" copper cases. I don't know why I never noticed that before, but they have worked in the past in my Lee whack-a-mole's.

PM incoming Elk Hunter.

GoodOlBoy

[robinsroost]

As much as I dislike black powder substitutes, 777 has more energy per volume than black. Keep yer powder dry........Robin ;-)

[.22-10-45]

GoodOLBoy has it right..the old cases with the primer pockets protruding inside are really semi-balloon head. The earlier thin copper or brass folded head...like a .22 rimfire case with protruding primer pockets are refered to as "full-balloon" head.

[StrawHat]

The cases that are commonly called balloon heads were originally referred to as solid headed to distinguish them from the folded headed ones.

Kevin

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It wouldn't be hard to make a cutting tool which would extend into the case and cut a recess around the primer pocket. Alternatively I think Magtech folded-head .410 shotgun shells could be used. But I doubt if the increased powder volume gained by either is really worth it.

[Don McDowell]

37 grs of goex 3f in modern WW cases topped with the Remington 250 gr bulk lead bullet will get you 875fps from a 5 1/2 in. barrel and about 925 from a 7 1/2. Spot on the factory blackpowder loads.

[ELFEGO BACA]

I have used Goex 4Fg in my Ruger Old Army with round balls and cast 45 ACP bullets.
maybe 4Fg would work in the 45 Colt.

It's been a few years since I have been cowboy shooting but I have used light 45/70 cast bullets for black powder loads in my Ruger old model Vaqueros!

[w30wcf]

In the mid 1880's or so, the folded head cases became obsolete, being replaced by the new Solid Head cases. At the beginning of that era, UMC marked the cases with S H to designate that they were of the solid head construction.
Here's an example of an early .44-40....
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/44-40%20UMC%20S%20H%20%20.44%20CF..jpg

The correct term was SHBP (Solid Head Button Pocket) aka Balloon Head. Interestingly they lasted into the early 1950's when they were replaced with the cases we have today.

The .45 Colt SHBP cases II have hold 3-4 grs more powder than regular brass.

I find that a shell holder for the .300 Magnum family of cartridges fits pretty well.

w30wcf

[Hardcast416taylor]

I have about 12 of the old balloon head .45 Colt cases that a friend gifted to me. His Father reloaded and these were from his supplies he left on his passing. I keep the cases sepperate and for looking at only!Robert

[toot]

be careful as most shooters know OLD BALOON HEAD CASES will separate just ahead of the rim at any given time without a warning!! not good by any means!!. through them in the scrap brass bin, that is what I do. they haven't ben made since the 40,s I be leave. that is like when kerosene lighting went out and electricity came in staying with kero.

[StrawHat]

be careful as most shooters know OLD BALOON HEAD CASES will separate just ahead of the rim at any given time without a warning!! not good by any means!!. through them in the scrap brass bin, that is what I do. they haven't ben made since the 40,s I be leave. that is like when kerosene lighting went out and electricity came in staying with kero.

Or continuing to use black powder because smokeless is available? Or boolits because jacketed bullets are being made? All brass will eventually separate or split if you reuse it enough. So I guess it is best to just use factory ammunition?

Sorry, I do not agree.

Kevin

[GoodOlBoy]

thanks StrawHat I agree with you. It saddens me that folks ARE just culling perfectly good balloon head brass. I am looking for it specifically to load black powder in. Maybe someday I will get to the recyc center right after them and pick some up if I am lucky.

GoodOlBoy

[cajun shooter]

I have about 200 of these old cases and load them with no ill effects with KIK, Swiss and Olde Eynsford.

[Char-Gar]

be careful as most shooters know OLD BALOON HEAD CASES will separate just ahead of the rim at any given time without a warning!! not good by any means!!. through them in the scrap brass bin, that is what I do. they haven't ben made since the 40,s I be leave. that is like when kerosene lighting went out and electricity came in staying with kero.

How old are you Toot? Some of us were handloading "balloon" head cases for many years without knowing what you say most shooters know. Are Balloon Head cases as strong as the newer solid head case? No. Will they fail at a greater rate? No, not as long as you stick to factory pressure loads.

Elmer Keith developed his hot 44 Special loads in such balloon head cases, without any issues. He did say with the new solid head cases his load should be reduced from 18.5 grains of 2400 to 17.5 due to the decreased powder capacity.

I still used such balloon head cases from time to time in 45 Colt, 44 Special and 45 Auto Rim without any concern for case failure. Your kerosene vs. electricity analogy is not anywhere near being accurate.

[cajun shooter]

A huge PLUS 1 on that posting Char-Gar. I also thought that the younger generation was the ones who were computer literate, my laptop with W7 has spell check on it. Later David

[MT Chambers]

I couldn't fit 40 g. into new cases, if i compressed it enough it would swell the cases to where they wouldn't chamber, you don't have to worry about shell holders and old balloon head cases with the Co-ax.

[missionary5155]

37 grs of goex 3f in modern WW cases topped with the Remington 250 gr bulk lead bullet will get you 875fps from a 5 1/2 in. barrel and about 925 from a 7 1/2. Spot on the factory blackpowder loads.

Greetings
Don McDowell has it right in my shooting book. I use 3F in many old BP calibers to get the proper FPS using solid head cases. It is reasonably easier to get enough 3F in a solid head case to duplicate the old velocities. A big plus is the reduction of fouling. Far easier to load and shoot more before having to wipe out the barrel or free the cylinder.
Yes I still shoot some good condition balloon head brass but with very mild loads to include mild BP loads. Those old BH cases do come apart but far less dramaticly with low pressure loads.
Mike in Peru

[cajun shooter]

As I posted earlier, I have about 200 of the older cases and I shoot them all the time. I should have entered another sentence to my posting. I keep my 44 wcf loads with those cases at a lower loading than my new Starline cases.
I came across 100 of them that appeared to be new and I was not going to let them sit in a box. I've yet to have a case separation or any other failures.