.45LC load shooting low

[cpaspr]

Ruger Blackhawk convertible, 5.5" barrel, cylinders properly throated by DougGuy.

My bullets are 262gr, Keith 454424 semi-wadcutters sized down to .452". Loaded over 17gr of 2400.

They're hitting 3-4" low, with the rear sight adjusted all the way up.

I was shooting at 10 yards to get them on paper, from a bench, with a two hand hold. I was so frustrated at that range that I didn't bother trying them at 25 yards.

Suggestions? More powder? Less powder? Different powder? Longer distance because the bullet was still rising? Get better glasses to see the sights with?

[Cornbread]

I have that same setup and mine loves 20grn IMR-4227 with that mold using water dropped COWW. I prefer PB RNFP in 255grn with that same load for it but it shoots great using 454424 as well. I don't know enough about 2400 to say what you should do using that as your propellant though.

[DougGuy]

17.0gr 2400 is what I use with the 310gr boolits in the .44 Magnum and iirc 18.0gr 2400 with the 300gr boolit in the .45 Colt.

Have you ran those 262gr loads over a chrony? Normally, a heavier boolit will raise POI because they have more "dwell time" in the barrel, which gives the action of recoil longer to roll the muzzle upward, so the boolit actually leaves the muzzle when it is pointed farther upward than if it was a lighter/faster boolit which would exit the muzzle before it rolled upward as far.

What other powders have you used with that same boolit?

I have the same issue with lighter boolits in my Vaquero. I tried some of the 260gr "Deer Grenade" LSWC-GC made by Rimrock Bullets (the same boolit loaded in Buffalo Bore "Deer Grenade" ammo) and I could barely get it on paper at 25yds. The Buffalo Bore loading of this same boolit is violent, and shoots also to 6" below the sights at 25yds.

Edit: Not sure just how much difference it would make, but my 2400 is older Hercules 2400 and not newer Alliant 2400. I have heard it over and over that the A2400 burns faster than older H2400 but never tested the two side by side.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am going to ask this and probably get flamed for it, I usually do. I own two forty five long colts. Neither one of them will shoot .452 sized bullets at point of aim. BOTH of them like .454 sized bullets. I know of half a dozen other people shooting 45 long colts. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them shoots .454s better than .452s with the SOLE exception of a S&W Mountain Gun in 45LC that for some reason seems to prefer .453s. I will grant you all of our guns are at LEAST 20 years old. Is there a particular reason you are shooting a .452 in a 45 long colt, other than that every Tom, Dick, and Harry seems to want to shoot them that way?

Just curious

GoodOlBoy

[DougGuy]

Well.. If your cylinder throats are smaller than .454" you certainly aren't shooting .454" once they clear the cylinder, they come out the front of it the size of whatever the throats are. However, maybe it is making enough extra pressure to cause POI to be higher, kinda makes me think of that red in the face look from trying to water the lawn with a mouth full of water pushed through a soda straw? :kidding:

[GoodOlBoy]

lol DougGuy I actually spewed coke when I read the soda straw comparison. When I first got my blackhawk we couldn't figure out why every third shot was a little off and every fourth shot was WAY off target and kicked like a mule. When we finally meassured the cylinder throats the throats we had marked as being the culprits measured .450 and .448! Luckily a buddy had a throat reamer and we fixed them. I still think about that one .448 throat when guys talk about suped up hot loads and rock hard alloys.... wonder what woulda happened to me back then if I hadn't been shooting dead soft cowboy loads?

GoodOlBoy

[Silver Jack Hammer]

You can raise the point of impact by increasing velocity and or increase boolit weight. Don't rule out the option that you may have to file down the front sight to get to point of aim.

[gtgeorge]

It is probably since your 45 Colt came as a 45 LC (low colt) :kidding: sorry I had to.

Others have given good suggestions for altering dwell time and a change of powder, charge or bullet weight all can do this. If it was the load I wanted to shoot mostly the front sight would get filed or learn to shoot bring the front sight up between the goal posts a little. I would also wonder if grip might affect it as well as if you are flinching. My wife shoots low with everything.

[Char-Gar]

Ruger makes a higher rear sight blade that should cure your problem. It cured mine. Here is the link..

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/sights/rear-sights/sight-blade-rear-high-white-outline-prod12246.aspx

[DougGuy]

I still think about that one .448 throat when guys talk about suped up hot loads and rock hard alloys.... wonder what woulda happened to me back then if I hadn't been shooting dead soft cowboy loads?

GoodOlBoy

Nothing! I was shooting some 340gr SSK TC boolits that had a lot of lino in them, they were SO hard I could drive them through 3' of seasoned oak firewood and dang near reload them again. All this over 22.0gr 296 with CCI 350 primers and .450" throats and a REALLY BAD thread choke..

After reaming the cylinder throats and Taylor throating the choke out of the barrel, POI dropped over 4" at 25yds for the same loads. It went from shooting 6" above the sights to a 6 O'clock position sitting right on the front sight blade. Gotta love that.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I had the opposite problem as I think many have had , a 44mag SBH will shoot high with the factory sight post and 240gr bullets but be perfect on with 180gr Federal ammo
one fo the options is to order the 45 SBH front sight and install it to lower the POI

you could do the inverse and order the 44mag sight post or file down the one you have

now I just need to find the time to get mine installed , then again I bought a 200 gr mold I want to try before replacing the sight to see if I even need to or if I just save lead and shoot lighter bullets.

not sure why it seems no one sells an undercut SBH front sight made of brass with a blackening liquid to paint on to blacken the brass once you have fine tuned the sight to the load with a file like we do with muzzle loaders , for all the posts I see about SBH and the sights not being right

[cpaspr]

17.0gr 2400 is what I use with the 310gr boolits in the .44 Magnum and iirc 18.0gr 2400 with the 300gr boolit in the .45 Colt.

Have you ran those 262gr loads over a chrony?

Nope.

Normally, a heavier boolit will raise POI because they have more "dwell time" in the barrel, which gives the action of recoil longer to roll the muzzle upward, so the boolit actually leaves the muzzle when it is pointed farther upward than if it was a lighter/faster boolit which would exit the muzzle before it rolled upward as far.

What other powders have you used with that same boolit?

None. Yet. I have a pound of H110, and a couple of pounds of Unique, and some HS-6. Dribs and drabs of a few others.

I have the same issue with lighter boolits in my Vaquero. I tried some of the 260gr "Deer Grenade" LSWC-GC made by Rimrock Bullets (the same boolit loaded in Buffalo Bore "Deer Grenade" ammo) and I could barely get it on paper at 25yds. The Buffalo Bore loading of this same boolit is violent, and shoots also to 6" below the sights at 25yds.

Edit: Not sure just how much difference it would make, but my 2400 is older Hercules 2400 and not newer Alliant 2400. I have heard it over and over that the A2400 burns faster than older H2400 but never tested the two side by side.

I have some of each, H2400 and A2400, but don't recall which I used when I loaded up the rounds I've shot so far. The H2400 is quite old, but still good. It's in a square cube can. The 17gr rounds were quite stout, so I may try dropping that down a grain or so, and see if the POI comes up as the recoil goes down.
_________________

I'm pretty set on this particular bullet, having had Doug cut the cylinder a little deeper specially to accommodate it.

[.22-10-45]

"I was shooting from 10yds...off bench with a two hand hold". I have a Colt 2nd. gen. S.A.A. .38 Spec. 7 1/2" that is very sensitive to how it's held. I have always shot with wrists supported from bench when sighting in or determining accuracy with S&W revolvers..but not this one..p.o.i. was low left hand corner of 3'X4' cardboard backer at 15yds! Nearly reached for file..but then the o'l light bulb flickered on & I shot 1 handed on my hind legs..p.o.i. right on top of front sight with perfect windage! This was with std. 158gr. cast. This one doesn't even like a two handed offhand hold. I went thru alot of experimental handloads..including some heavy 190gr. loads trying to bring impact higher before I found this out.

[Djones]

Try shooting free hand. Shooting from a bench can cause you to shoot low.

Edit: shooting your revolver from a bench could remove the barrel rise that shooting off hand offers. Which in turn could be why you are shooting low.

Also moving to 25 yards may help some too.

[DougGuy]

I have a pound of H110, and a couple of pounds of Unique, and some HS-6. Dribs and drabs of a few others.

Make SURE you don't download H110/296 below published starting weights. This powder should be used for pretty much all out magnum loads where there is a high load density in the case. The heavier the boolit, the more H110 will shine.

Unique.. Really good powder for large straight walled pistol cases, but.. Spiky and unpredictable above 10.0gr in the .45 Colt case. I will not go there myself, 9.5gr is where I stop and I do NOT use it for heavy boolits. Unique is good powder but it's better suited for cowboy loads.

You would DIE if I posted a video of my SBH when I went to zero in the C430-310-RF boolit over 17.0gr 2400. The rear sight would not go down low enough, so I took it to a belt sander, stood the gun upside down on the rear sight blade and hit the switch. I stopped when it got even with the sight body and filed a new notch in the middle of it. Touched it up with a sharpie marker and just went out and shot the thing. To hell with being PC this is MY GUN! :shocked:

Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do! :bigsmyl2:

[Petrol & Powder]

From the OP : "Suggestions? More powder? Less powder? Different powder? Longer distance because the bullet was still rising? Get better glasses to see the sights with?"

If possible I would start with a heavier bullet.
The next solution, for me, would be to take a file to the front sight.

[WALLNUTT]

10 yds? With my 45ACP and 44SPL I'm on at 17yds and they shoot about 3"-4" high at 40yds W/O sight adjustment. Maybe you're too close.

[str8wal]

I was shooting at 10 yards to get them on paper, from a bench, with a two hand hold. I was so frustrated at that range that I didn't bother trying them at 25 yards.

How are you resting the gun? Did you try off-hand?