I believe we've.....

[Sharpsman]

talked and bull-schitted ourselves out!

Probably not one new subject that hasn't already been discussed and cussed over!![smilie=6::kidding:

[Don McDowell]

What we need is for folks to actually get out and shoot the things..

[kokomokid]

Yep, shot a few yesterday but its just too wet to drive to the target. Nice problem to have in Texas but sure we will get over it.

[Don McDowell]

I shot a few patched rounds during the Wyoming State Midrange match, but they were untested prior to the match, and while they did shoot ok, they didn't shoot as well as I had hoped, so went back to the greasers that had been proven in that rifle.
Eddie Hayes shot a McKinney/Fruend conversion on a Shiloh #1 sporter in 45-90, using Eynsford powder and a .446 diameter KAL bullet, and shot a rather good score. He had not fired the rifle nor the load prior to the start of the match. He keeps on with that rifle at future matches in the same way it all came together for him in Worland, and he's liable to become one of the boys to look out for at the top of the score board.

[BrentD]

What we need is for folks to actually get out and shoot the things..


that's what I did all last weekend at the St. Louis BPCR regional. Don't know why ya'll weren't there. It was the normal grand time it always is.

[dave roelle]

Just wrapped up 100 Creedmore 444's to break in the new range at the ranch this weekend---doing a little experimenting with waxy waterproofing materials-----the barber towel 90%/90 degree Gulf Coast weather likes to soak into patches, waxing helps tight fitting patched bullets load without rolling up the patch--------testing to commence next saturday

Dave

[BrentD]

Dave,
I have not tried this, perhaps you have already, but I think a good paste wax like Johnson's paste wax or maybe even a car polishing paste wax might be applied to paper bullet with some benefits.

[Lincoln Creek]

that's what I did all last weekend at the St. Louis BPCR regional. Don't know why ya'll weren't there. It was the normal grand time it always is.

So, what did you shoot and how did you do?

[BrentD]

I shot steel rams, turkeys, pigs, and chickens from 200 to 500 meters, i.e., a regulation silhouette match. I did not shoot particularly well but I finished with 5 for 10 on chickens, and that makes me happy every day of the week.

[dave roelle]

Hi Brent----------JPW helps for sure and i have used it with some success---this batch has a thin film of bullet lube rubbing in when i wrap the patch (dry)-----might be a bit too sticky and pick up trash, i'll know how it works this weekend, gonna be hot and humid down this way.

The lube is a tallow-bees wax--lanolin that i have used on GG bullets.

The trick will be getting uniformity bullet to bullet---- the amount of lube has to matter, just not sure how much it matters.

Test shots here at the house shows good patch cutting ---next is to see what happens at the range at say 300 yards---i'll get some pics.

Waiting for a range report Kid----oughta dry out up that way this week.

Dave

[kokomokid]

Brent, Are you using one dry patch behind the bore pigs for silhouette and is it on a brush or jag?
Dave, Shot a few pp yesterday but they were tight to chamber. Got to get a chamber assist tool (Rhoades) or custom size die , maybe both.

[dave roelle]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM load one in the riflegun kid and pull the case and tap the bullet out of the barrel----see what the patch looks like---------thats the same feeling i get when a patch rolls up like a bad gym sock :)-----whats the diameter over the patch ?

I size to 0.4505

Dave

[country gent]

I was told to wet wrap with lee sizing die wax cut with 2-3 parts water to help seal patches and water proof. The lee sizing die wax is water souluable. I have tried it a couple times with decent results but it makes wrapping a little weird feeling.

[dave roelle]

Hi Gent---novel approach------------for a wet patch it should slick things up but being water soluble i'm not sure it would prevent hot humid conditions from puffing up the patch ? i'll see if one of the guy's at the club might have some i could test with.


Thanks for the thought

Dave

[Gunlaker]

I didn't realize that Eddie Hays was shooting a paper patched bullet. I though you were the only one. I used my Shiloh .40-65 with the Kidwell Money bullet.

Midrange with paper patched bullets is something I've been thinking about. I think the .45-70 might be overkill for that. A patched .40 cal would probably be just the ticket.

By the way, it was nice to meet you in person rather than on the internet Don :-)

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Chris yes Eddie shot that KAL bullet with Eynsford powder all thru the match. I don't know of him to of shot grease groove bullets but only a couple of times in the last 7 or 8 years.
A 40 something or other should be a superp midrange gun.
Looking forward to seeing you at Byers.
Safe travels.

[Gunlaker]

I'll definitely be shooting PP at Byers. I'm just not sure which one yet. I might shoot the .40-65 again for the midrange match though. It just depends :-).

Either way I'm sure that someone will be happy to take away my contribution to the money match :-).

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

Don, do you know who was shooting a .38 and what kind it was? When we were in the pits Robert was talking about the holes in his target being from a .38 but I didn't ask him about it. A paper patched .38-50 Remingtom Hepburn might work well for midrange...

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Bryan was shooting his Ballard in 38-50. But yes a nice 38 with patched bullets would be a good midrange gun.
For Byers I'll load enough of patched and greasers to shoot the long range, and then see which one is shooting the best out of the Raton gun during the High Plains Challenge, and then take the best of the two on thru the Creedmoor.
Might shoot the 44-77 for midrange, and I know it'll be patched all the way, and maybe this 44-90 st if I get it settled down like I want it.

[BrentD]

Brent, Are you using one dry patch behind the bore pigs for silhouette and is it on a brush or jag?
Dave, Shot a few pp yesterday but they were tight to chamber. Got to get a chamber assist tool (Rhoades) or custom size die , maybe both.
Yes I am.

DO NOT get a chambering tool. Seriously, if you have need of that, then your probably using too big of a bullet or paper that is too thick. I sometimes have to push a bullet home with a carved stick but this is the result of poor planning and variation in barrel manufacturing from one rifle tot he next with the same ammo. It is just a gentle shove, not somethiing that requires a camming too.

Get the die before you get the tool.

[BrentD]

I was told to wet wrap with lee sizing die wax cut with 2-3 parts water to help seal patches and water proof. The lee sizing die wax is water souluable. I have tried it a couple times with decent results but it makes wrapping a little weird feeling.

Why all the concern with waterproofing? i have to admit that I used to worry about that too, but I was an idiot. You don't need it if you have properly loaded ammo. I've hunted all over the world without it.

If you insist, you can try a spray on fixative (Blair #`105, NOT Krylon) from an art supply store but it is counter productive.

[BrentD]

Brent, Are you using one dry patch behind the bore pigs for silhouette and is it on a brush or jag?
Dave, Shot a few pp yesterday but they were tight to chamber. Got to get a chamber assist tool (Rhoades) or custom size die , maybe both.

Yes I am. And I experience a new demonic intrusion event that I had never even dreamed of before, much less experienced in 2 decades of PPB work.

I use a bore pig that looks a lot like the Texas Bore Pig (google is your friend). But mine have two neoprene washers on the back of it to squeegee the water out of the bore. These are very important to for the pig to work right. I made these about 2-3 yrs ago.

Well in that time, the neoprene as started to degrade and crumble. Small pieces were fraying from the edges and in a few cases, there were slivers sort of like a finger nail clipping that were "unhinging" from the washers' perimeters. One or more of these came off in the bore and got under the patch I was puching (on a jag) so that it was left in the bore when I pulled the wiping rod out. The next bullet smeared this to the bottom of the bore like a thin layer of sticky grease. And boy was it sticky. Accuracy went from superb to totally absent in just a few shots. I killed ten pigs with a tiny group on their shoulders and then got two turkeys and suddenly I couldn't hit within 2 feet of the birds. It took a long time to figure out what has happening and I only got 3 turkeys total (the third as just random chance).

Once I got that stuff out of there, I got back on target and picked up 8 rams but it sure was a mess for a while.

Moral of the story - check those bore critters and replace parts regularly.

Brent

[BrentD]

Hi Brent----------JPW helps for sure and i have used it with some success---this batch has a thin film of bullet lube rubbing in when i wrap the patch (dry)-----might be a bit too sticky and pick up trash, i'll know how it works this weekend, gonna be hot and humid down this way.





Dave, i was thinking of the wax more for just sliding down the bore with the least friction possible. I think the stuff would dry quickly if put on thinly. When dry i don't see how it would pick up any dirt more than regular paper. Anyway, just something I want to try someday

If you are having trouble getting patched bullets in the cases then there is an other problem, or at least an easier/better solution. Just bell the cases slightly. If you run a neck expander in 1/8" or so, the bullets should slide into the case easily. You can taper crimp or run them into a full length sizing die wi/o the depriming pin. Just use the die backed off a few turns so only the neck is sized and it is effectively a taper crimp, almost perfect for paper patched bullets of bore diameter in my experience.


Time to load a few more.

Brent

[dave roelle]

Hi Brent-------------thanks for the reply-----------i have tools built, both expander and sizing die, to get the case fit thats working for me. Sizing of the case is exactly as you describe :)

The only difficulty i have had is in the really hot humid conditions that we have here in the summer----i believe its a combination of the very close fit of the patched bullet to the bore and the Strathmore tracing paper that i use sucking the moisture out of the atmosphere, perhaps a different paper is the real solution.

I'll see how the slicker lubed patch does this weekend, one things for sure, water rolls right off now :)-----

I am using a 375 H&H sizing die without the decapping pin, to taper crimp the case--- the body section of the sizing die has a very shallow taper, very easy to control the crimp.

i need to cast a few money bullets, just melted down all my GG bullets :)

Keep well and stay safe

Dave

[kokomokid]

Dave, I have pulled more than one hard to seat bullet back out and no damage to the paper. A .450- gage pin (.4497) will barely start in the chamber, very tight. Eaton 25% 9# paper is hardest to seat while my Alvin 8# is hard also but they both shoot into a group meeting my expectations at this point.
Brent, I use a pistol brush to push arsenal patches for my GG bullets. I now see where a bare brush with 3m and washer will need to be a rifle brush. Thanks

[dave roelle]

Gotcha Kid----------time for a sizing die i think-----i made mine, but it should be an easy task to lap out a lee sizing die----that way you get the fit you want every time !!!! ---mine sizes just the paper and the lube slicks things up nicely------the naked bullet shows no distortion from the sizing operation.

Keep on keepin on there sir

Dave

[BrentD]

How about $60 for the 80, including shipping (they will all fit in a $6 USPS flat rate box).

In 3 weeks I'll be driving to New Mexico. I have a number of different routes that I take but if you are east of Denver, it might be easy to pick up. Brush south to Limon and then Trinidad is as far west I would get. Various places east of that line might be doable too, depending on if I can hook it to a route to Raton efficiently.

Brent

[BrentD]

Dave, I was doing some reloading of other stuff and came across what may be the solution to your problem with humidity messing up your paper.

Cooking parchment paper is usually right about the ideal thickness. It is very tough, and impregnated with something that prevents cookies from sticking to it. Whatever it is (silicone?) it sure is slick stuff and it works quite well in a cartridge gun. What it does not do is absorb water. So wet wrapping is futile and dry wrapping is not much easier (pre curl the paper for best results). But it works darn well and it will make your ammo more waterproof that anything you can imagine.

[dave roelle]

OUTSTANDING Thanks Brent-------------Becky had a roll in the pantry---------------test reports as soon as i get a chance-----------ranch work this weekend then a trip to the bay for some redfish and trout :)-----then test time!!

Travel safe

Dave

[dave roelle]

Hi Brent:

I had some time at the ranch this weekend to test the parchment paper--------------not too shabby actually-----------i only had 10 rounds for a quick test ---it was hot 90+ and humid everything fit fine no roll-ups with either the "lubed" patched bullets or the parchment patched ones, so some success.

all the rounds shot to the same group of about 2 minutes at 300 yards---the parchment didn't cut as well as the tracing paper but it didn't seem to be a problem.

More testing later this month i hope-----things are looking pretty good !!!!!

Thanks again for the help

Dave

[Good Cheer]

talked and bull-schitted ourselves out!

Probably not one new subject that hasn't already been discussed and cussed over!![smilie=6::kidding:

I'm surprised that more posts haven't concerned caseless ammo.

[BrentD]

Indeed, it is the ultimate means of delivering a cast bullet, but not many here seem to practice it.

The world championships of long range caseless cast bullet shooting will be this September at Camp Butner. Any here going?

[Lead Fred]

What we need is for folks to actually get out and shoot the things..

Isnt there an app for that? :kidding:

[country gent]

Okay I have to ask what is caseless cast bullet amunition?

[BrentD]

Muzzleloaders of course. Particularly, of the svelte British persuasion, fast of twist and long of range. The highest form of riflery every achieved.

[country gent]

Okays thanks for that Its wat I was thinking but also thought it might have been breech seating.

[montana_charlie]

I'm surprised that more posts haven't concerned caseless ammo.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?16-Muzzleloading