Best Lube For 308 at 2500 to 2700 FPS

[Avenger442]

I have been coating for some time now and was wondering what soft lube would let me run my 308 rifle 24 in barrel at 2500 to 2700 FPS with no leading. 45-45-10? Red? White?

Since I have never used soft lubes what is the learning curve?

[waksupi]

Felix Lube has always worked for me.

[Yodogsandman]

Check out these lube tests...

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,554.0.html

[Avenger442]

These comments bring one more question to mind. I see that most are using the stick lubes you apply with a lube sizer. Forgive the newbie question but can you apply these with your finger then run through a lee sizer die? Would like, for the time being, to avoid buying a lube sizer.

[big bore 99]

These comments bring one more question to mind. I see that most are using the stick lubes you apply with a lube sizer. Forgive the newbie question but can you apply these with your finger then run through a lee sizer die? Would like, for the time being, to avoid buying a lube sizer.
I do it that way most of the time except with a popcicle stick

[2wheelDuke]

These comments bring one more question to mind. I see that most are using the stick lubes you apply with a lube sizer. Forgive the newbie question but can you apply these with your finger then run through a lee sizer die? Would like, for the time being, to avoid buying a lube sizer.

You could always pan lube, where you melt the lube in a pan, let it cool/harden, then size in a Lee sizer. I did it before I had a lube/sizer. I still use that technique sometimes to test a new lube before I bother emptying the lube/sizer to put a different type in.

[Yodogsandman]

I've been using my finger to lube a lot lately, trying different lubes and not wanting to change the lube in the lubrisizer. You could also dip the lube grooves into a shallow dish of the melted stick lube or even pan lube to apply the lube.

[Avenger442]

Thanks guys. I think that answers my questions for now. Was thinking of what I would do if no power and couldn't coat bullets. Not a prepper but prepare for worst and hope for best.

[Avenger442]

Thanks guys. I think that answers my questions for now. Was thinking of what I would do if no power and couldn't coat bullets. Not a prepper but prepare for worst and hope for best.

Woops. Double posted....

[popper]

I did that with Mozzola brand veggie oil a couple years ago. Accuracy was good too. A bit messy (better than peanut butter), dipped a 31-165A into oil, wiped the base and seated. No leading. Be sure to clean the barrel for long term storage - it gets a bit gummy.

[MarkP]

You can also dip lube; just dip into melted lube, the longer you hold it in the lube less will stick as the boolit heats up. (or you can preheat them with a hairdryer. Just size with a push thru sizer and the excess lube forms a small ring at the base of the die that can be peeled off every 10 boolits of so and re-melted.
This does not work too well with tiny 22's or short boolits.

[MT Chambers]

Fingers and dipping is for chicken wings, buy the right equip. and some Carnauba Red and have at 'er.

[Avenger442]

If I can run my .308 with soft lube using my fingers at 2700+fps with no leading, like the coating I've been using, I'll be satisfied. Need that fall back position for no power situation. Now if someone were to give me a lube sizer with the right accessories I probably would use it.:D

[35 shooter]

Avenger442 out of curiousity, what kind of accuracy are you getting @ 2700 fps. with the pc in your 308?
I've used Ben's Red lube up to 25-2600fps. in the whelen...no leading.

[Avenger442]

Avenger442 out of curiousity, what kind of accuracy are you getting @ 2700 fps. with the pc in your 308?
I've used Ben's Red lube up to 25-2600fps. in the whelen...no leading.

First of all I'm new to casting and just started reloading a little over two years ago so just looking for info on using soft lubes. I have never used any before.

I've never tried PC either. But that too is open.

I'm just getting started so everything is a work in progress. Been changing loads and powders to get one that I was happy with both the group and bullet drop at 100 yards.

My only experience with coatings is with the product out of Australia Hi-Tek. Best five shot group so far has been 1 3/4" at 100 yards (without one flyer). Don't have powder and charge in front of me. Like I said don't like to spend money on equipment. So don't have a way to measure my fps exactly so I have to guess based on load data. That one was running estimated between 2300 and 2400 fps. I have loaded .5 g short of max with H4895 at around 2700 fps with no leading but groups were not that good. That 2700 fps was the original reason for the question I started with. That and the idea that if no power you can't use the coating. So, I also need to test and learn soft lube and casting with a ladle.

[Lead Fred]

We used some White Lube's Carduba Red (2700+) and 2500+ mixed together.
We fired a hand full of round threw two 30 cal rifles (30-06 & 30WM)
Happy to report no leading at 2500fps

[35 shooter]

First of all I'm new to casting and just started reloading a little over two years ago so just looking for info on using soft lubes. I have never used any before.

I've never tried PC either. But that too is open.

I'm just getting started so everything is a work in progress. Been changing loads and powders to get one that I was happy with both the group and bullet drop at 100 yards.

My only experience with coatings is with the product out of Australia Hi-Tek. Best five shot group so far has been 1 3/4" at 100 yards (without one flyer). Don't have powder and charge in front of me. Like I said don't like to spend money on equipment. So don't have a way to measure my fps exactly so I have to guess based on load data. That one was running estimated between 2300 and 2400 fps. I have loaded .5 g short of max with H4895 at around 2700 fps with no leading but groups were not that good. That 2700 fps was the original reason for the question I started with. That and the idea that if no power you can't use the coating. So, I also need to test and learn soft lube and casting with a ladle.

Another option to try would be the new BLL tumble lube. I used it with 3 coats and shot to 2200 fps. with no leading and great accuracy the other day. Haven't run it any faster yet, but have seen one test that ran it over 2400 fps. with 3 coats. in a 30 cal. It doesn't dry completely on the boolits ,but almost. It definitly has my attention right now.
Just mix 60% alox and 40% johnson's liquid wax in a bottle and shake it up and done!
Just a few drops in a bowl will lube a lot of boolits.
Check out Ben's tl lube thread for more info on it. It also works great as an overcoat
on top of regular lube to lock the lube in the grooves well.

[Larry Gibson]

These comments bring one more question to mind. I see that most are using the stick lubes you apply with a lube sizer. Forgive the newbie question but can you apply these with your finger then run through a lee sizer die? Would like, for the time being, to avoid buying a lube sizer.

If you note in the lube test mentioned in post #3 I did in fact finger lube and with most of the lubes used and then ran the bullets through a sizer. Slow, tedious but it works just fine.

I suggest 2500+ or 2700+ since Javelina is no longer available.

Larry Gibson

[Avenger442]

Larry
Already looking at White Label 2500 but have not been able to find 2700. You have good web address for it?

35Shooter
I'm finding out, at least in my guns, that near max loads just don't group well. I'm not sure if changing to soft lube will change that. So 2700 fps would probably be not the best benchmark for what I'm looking for. I want a load that moves the bullet fast enough to flatten when it hits a deer and can match the performance of what I can go down to the store and buy. So far I have met that goal with 16 BHN lead and the coating. Don't think I can shoot the BHN 20s and have it flatten on a deer. Not sure. Maybe hollow point?

I have Johson's wax and Alox. In fact before I started coating it was where I was headed for lube. Don't you mix a little mineral spirits with that mix?

[35 shooter]

The tl lube i'm speaking of is new and uses johnsons liquid wax, not paste wax. Much easier and faster to make with no cooking time...just mix and shake lol. It's in a thread just under this one. It requires no mineral oil. The solvents are already in the liquid wax.
You've found in your guns what a lot have found with cast and max loads.
For one thing i had to heat treat my boolits to get accuracy past about 18 to 1900 fps. I have a bhn of 27 which shoots pretty well up to about 2400, but my best loads are around 1800 to 2200 fps.
There are some strides being made in shooting cast fast though. Do a search here on high velocity threads. There's one going on now in special projects on the new xcb boolits.
My boolits don't expand on deer for sure, but a 35 cal. hole in and out doesn't seem to need much expansion.
One thing you might try is to make an alloy such as #2, then start loading around 1800 fps see how fast you can go with accuracy, then try water dropping or ht for more speed with accuracy while testing for expansion along the way....a deep hollowpoint at 20 bhn will probably shed the nose at hunting speeds.Probably best to go with a wide flat point for best of both worlds.

[sparky45]

I did that with Mozzola brand veggie oil a couple years ago. Accuracy was good too. A bit messy (better than peanut butter), dipped a 31-165A into oil, wiped the base and seated. No leading. Be sure to clean the barrel for long term storage - it gets a bit gummy.

Did it smell like french fries when you finished shooting?:kidding:

[Larry Gibson]

2700+ is Carnauba Red.

Larry Gibson

[skeettx]

OK, OK, I have been following this posting.

Now I wish to call y'all to task please.

I would like to see some 100 yard groups posted
for your 30 cal boolits starting out a 2500 fps+
Please, I would really like to learn.

I really like Larry G.s article

AND I have hoarded many tubes of the old Javelina and really like it.

Respectfully
Thank you
Mike

[Larry Gibson]

Go to "Special Projects" and the "Testing the 30 XCB" thread. Ignore the BS and you'll find lots of groups posted with all pertinent data. Those posting the groups/data keep no secrets.

Larry Gibson

[Tenbender]

Another option to try would be the new BLL tumble lube. I used it with 3 coats and shot to 2200 fps. with no leading and great accuracy the other day. Haven't run it any faster yet, but have seen one test that ran it over 2400 fps. with 3 coats. in a 30 cal. It doesn't dry completely on the boolits ,but almost. It definitly has my attention right now.
Just mix 60% alox and 40% johnson's liquid wax in a bottle and shake it up and done!
Just a few drops in a bowl will lube a lot of boolits.
Check out Ben's tl lube thread for more info on it. It also works great as an overcoat
on top of regular lube to lock the lube in the grooves well.
I thought I was the only one doing that. I'm using 45 45 10 over 2500+ in my 7X30 Waters. Plan on doing that with my 308.

[MT Chambers]

My best .30 cal. groups are usually around 2000fps give or take and using Carnauba Red, if I try to crank up velocity, may groups fail, and leading is not the issue.

[popper]

141050
RD 170 lubed with veggy oil @ about 40 yds, 30/30 resting elbow on a cooler. Just smells like gunpowder. ~2k fps. Not much smoke, more of a mist. I used it with the 308W load in an AR also, ~ 2500 fps.
141056 @ 50 yds

[Avenger442]

Thanks guys for helping the newbie.


skeettx
If you will keep in mind I'm just starting out, I'll see if I can pull some of my old targets and do some photos with estimated speed data. This will be with the Hi-Tek coating since I have used nothing else to this point. I don't have a chronograph so I have to use load data speeds. I'm not where I want to be with my loads yet. But I think I can show you some 2-3" groups (and maybe smaller) at 100 yards between 2000 fps and 2700 fps. I also shoot factory ammo at each test to compare against my loads because one of the beginning goals was to match performance of ammo I could go down to the store and buy. It is shot first so if I have any leading it is not scrubbed out. If you want I'll post these for comparison.

That brings up another question. Is there a place to go to find out how fast the factory loads are moving?

[popper]

Some of the ammo makers (Win) have lists but I think they fudge a bit. IMHO, forget the comparison. You should be able to get better performance just working up your loads. Unless you can shoot @ >200 you won't be able to tell fps. I got the cheap $100 Chrony just so I'd know for sure. Load for accuracy then just check it so I know. Do post in the coating accuracy thread so we can see results. IIRC Larry G did some tests with lube over coating and got a decent speed increase.

[Avenger442]

I have already posted some there. But as you know that thread has become a large cord with almost 300 pages and 6000 post so they are hard to find. Partly due to too much bull shooting (of which I am a participant) and thread hijacking (also guilty again).

What if I do up a set of photos and post in both.

[Avenger442]

Your going to have click on to enlarge and read target. If my calculations are correct based on load data fps these were moving at about 2600 fps. That's a Lee C309-160R bullet three coats of Hi-Tek with 41 gr H4895 out of my Granddaughters scoped Remington 700 bull barrel deer rifle from lead sled. I've actually had better luck with it than the Weatherby Vanguard 308. It's my new gun and have just started with it.

I told someone on the other thread that my best group with this gun was 1 3/4" and posted a photo of a previous test with another quicker powder that had a 4 " drop from aim point. But actually my best group was with this powder at 100 yards and almost no drop from aim point. Scope was sighted with factory ammo.

White Label 2500 and 2700 on order.

[popper]

Weatherby Vanguard in 243 has a pencil barrel so you get more whip. Were those heat treated?

[Avenger442]

Weatherby Vanguard in 243 has a pencil barrel so you get more whip. Were those heat treated?

By whip do you mean powder charge?

No, has lino in it to raise BHN.

[popper]

Barrel harmonics. GS's have a couple, very accurate - I dialed in the scope at 50 for them in 3 shots each. I use 3% Sb with Cu added (up to 1% tested), Cooked @ 400F for an hour then dumped in cold water. Chrony'd 308W this morning - 42 gr. H4895 170gr. ESPC, 1:10 24" AR. Avg. 2634, ES 42. Did get one reading of 2789 - last shot of that string. Hmm. Carbine does ~ 2450 with 40.5 gr. Think I need to try some slower powder, may try LeverE.