Comparison Case Pro v Case Master Sizers

[RoGrrr]

Comparison Case Pro v Case Master Sizers

Just wondering if anyone has BOTH sizers to make that direct, side-by-side comparison ?

I've had more than my share of cases that would not chamber in my 1911s, both 45 and 9mm (especially my Springfield EMP) so I bought a Case Master JR and now I don't have that problem. The Master has pretty much solved that problem. It is EXTREMELY labor intensive and I hadn't built an autodrive for it.

Someone (I believe it was W.R.Buchanan) suggested I get a Case Pro so I researched that machine and decided to buy one. It just came in and I find a BIG difference in the operation. (Note to WRB, Thank you Randy) Just talking with people is like asking which is better - a Blonde or a FORD (Blue vs Red)?
What I find is that the Case Pro sizes the base of the 9mm case to .388-390. A case run thru the Pro is still tight when pushed thru the Master, which sizes the base to down .385. No wonder the force necessary for the Pro is far less tham the Master (size and rolling vs smaller size and stuffing thru hole).

I also find that the Case Pro is WAY faster due to its shorter stroke and rolling method.

The Lyman book shows the base of the 9mm to be .391 so the Pro does take the case to the correct dimensions to chamber. I'm wondering if the .385 which Magma takes the case to is necessary ? I've got about 5000 cases to size and load so if they all chamber, maybe I should find the Magma a new home. I haven't yet loaded any that have gone thru the Pro so the jury is still out on that one.

And I haven't yet done any 45ACPs.


* - I've also found with the CM that sometimes the case jams in my Dillon 650 bcuz the rim is so big that the die rolls the rim upward and it will not go into the shell plate. Doesn't happen often but the CPro won't cause that anomaly.

[jmorris]

I have a few casepro machines (one of the I automated) I have played with a case master.

Years ago I started on a pneumatic push through sizer similar to the case master JR and went with the case pro instead.

The case master runs faster than my auto case pro does but is only good for rimless rounds and only the very base of tapered cases. They also do nothing for the extractor grove.

[RoGrrr]

I just did over a thousand 9s with the Pro (operated manually) and I really don't understand how people think the CM is faster than the CP if they are both run manually.
I have the same case feed system for both machines (Dillon funnel from case feeder, 650) and when you have them next to each other, there is no comparison - the PRO is far better/faster.
If automated, it might be a different story but I reserve judgement on that one, depending on the method of drive.
I need to find a gearmotor so I can automate the CP so I can sip my "BIG GULP" while I watch things crash.

[jmorris]

The case master does almost 6000/hr.

http://www.magmaengineering.com/case-master-rimless-case-sizer/

[RoGrrr]

Of course, you're comparing apples and....

[jmorris]

Just comparing the two, are you thinking about the case master jr that uses the arbor press?

[RoGrrr]

You mentioned 6000 per hour which is the claim for the Automated Case Master, which is totally different from the arbor press unit I have. Yes, the auto will run that fast. I kinda wish I had that instead of these 2 machines I bought. The Auto CM is SIX THOUSAND BUCKS and I really don't think it's worth anywhere near that much, even with their collator. I look at the owner as being overly optimistic in his pricing.
No way will the arbor press come anywhere close to that, no matter what you do with it/to it.
I have both the manual CP and manual CM sitting side by side and while the CM sizes them smaller so they fit in anything/everything, the manually operated CP100 is faster than the CMJr, and it's way easier to operate.
I do plan to automate the CP and let the CM sit there until I decide what to do with it. It's about 5 months old and should bring good money when it says it wants a new home. I have 9mm and 45ACP dies for it.

[ReloaderFred]

Roger,

Are you lubing your cases prior to running them through the Case Master Jr.? If not, you'll wear your arm and shoulder out trying to push them through dry.

I put a bunch of them in a gallon ZipLoc bag and give them a couple of squirts of spray case lube. After rolling them around inside the bag, I dump them in a wide, flat box and let them dry for a few minutes and then I load them into tubes and run them through the Case Master Jr. It cuts the labor by at least half.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[jmorris]

There is also cheap ways to automate push through sizers as well.

The MA systems collator they use costs over $1000 by itself. Something like this could be fed with a less expensive collator (just not at 6000/hr).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zbImsdkbg

This is a link to an album with photos and videos of my auto casepro.
http://s121.photobucket.com/user/jmorrismetal/library/reloading/casepro?sort=3&page=1

[RoGrrr]

Fred
Yes, I recently discovered case lube and it DOES make a difference. I sprung for a bottle of Dillon spray and while it's relatively expensive, it is worthwhile. But with the CP100 the lube is going to sit until I start loading 223s.

JMorris
I've seen several iterations of this type of case/bullet sizer and while I could build a clone I've opted to go the other route. I'm also looking at a bullet feeder for my 650 but I don't see where it will save me that much time, if any. When loading, I like to look at several things and feel for things happening as I work the handle.
What I'm looking for presently is a gearmotor around 100 RPM. I have my eye on one that should be relatively cheap at the end of the week.
I'm also thinking about automating my STAR boolit sizer, which I'd like to make turn-key, walk away from and let run, like the Bullet Master I'm rebuilding.

[jmorris]

I'm also looking at a bullet feeder for my 650 but I don't see where it will save me that much time, if any. When loading, I like to look at several things and feel

I use them not really to save time as much as less work. Manually operated you don't loose any feel and have one less thing to worry about doing so you can pay better attention to other things.

in any case 100 rounds in under 4 minutes without one would be a lot more work than this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl63cR9Y_Y0

[RoGrrr]

JMorris
I'm not disputing that yours is fast. I can run nearly as fast with manual boolit insertion, having the boolit tray next to station 4. You have to fill tubes and/or change/swap them out while I simply dump more boolits into my tray.
However, as mentioned, my preference is to go a bit slower and survey/look/feel what's happening during forward and rearward stroke. In fact, I purposely don't fill my powder hopper more than halfway just so I can take breaks and inspect things. What I do want to do fast is the case sorting and sizing procedures.
In a perfect world I could run flat out and break speed records. If I were in comercial production, that would be my goal. However,
1) - being retired,
and
2) - doing this as my HOBBY, well, I take things at a relaxed pace.
However, I do want ALL my ammo to function in ALL my guns.

I just put some empty CP-sized cases into my Springfield EMP (9mm) just now and find that quite a few of them simply don't lock into battery. Not sure why and I haven't tried them in my Rock Island 1911 to see what happens there. Also, I haven't put them thru the Magma CM yet to see if that makes any difference. I'll report on that tmw when I'm more awake and "chipper". I just got back from a 500 mile car trip and thought I'd do a quicky chamber check.
My suspicion is that if the cases were about .001 or 2 smaller I might not have this problem. I'll do some experimenting and maybe some machining to gather more data. I also plan to talk with Mike and compare notes. I find that my EMP seems to have a very small chamber and it might be a freak in my arsenal, needing special care. I might even talk with the engineers at Springfield, too.

[jmorris]

I can run nearly as fast with manual boolit insertion, having the boolit tray next to station 4. You have to fill tubes and/or change/swap them out while I simply dump more boolits into my tray.

I would need a ladder to fill a tube tall enough to hold more than a hundred bullets, you can't see it in that video but there are both case and bullet collators pretty much the same as this machine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3hVi6PuduM