Lyman's Standing Among Other Reloading Manufacturers

[lightload]

Over the years I've accumulated a few older Lyman presses and like them. I started out with a Lyman Spartan and continue to use a couple of their pistol die sets. I notice that Lyman dies seem to have less than favored status. Has their QC gone by the wayside?

[MT Chambers]

I don't think it has, Lyman is an old company that does not market gimmicky products, just tried and proven equipment, maybe they're to old fashioned. I like their products esp. bullet sizers, M-dies, their molds, esp. the 4 cavity ones. Yup, an old company that wrote the book on much of this stuff , that's why I like 'em.

[Rory McCanuck]

I think I only have the one set of Lyman dies, but they are as nice as most of the others.
The 'M' die is the cat's meow.

[dromia]

I like Lyman dies and buy them through choice.

[Ken in Iowa]

I'm hot and cold on current Lyman products.

The last carbide die set that I bought is as good as any. I chose it to get the M die. I would buy it again under the same circumstances. Now that NOE offers custom M expanders in a great variety of sizes, the Lyman sets are less compelling.

The last new Lyman mould was very disappointing. It cast beautiful boolits that were .001-.0015 undersized with the alloy I wanted to use. I sent it back and replaced it with an RCBS which cast .001- to .0015 over- just where you want it, with the same alloy.

I have not experienced Lyman customer service personally. My return was through Midway where I bought the mould. I have dealt with RCBS and was extremely pleased.

[Green Frog]

Just like any large company, it seems like Lyman gets its share of abuse. They used to be a corporate sponsor of this forum IIRC, but were the subject of more than a little abuse by a few of our members and have long since withdrawn. As a personal note, I was contacted by one of the Lyman PR folks to ask what was up, but as a then-new member, had no way to influence what was happening (as though I would today. :? ) Like everyone else in any business, they have their strengths and weaknesses, and some of us tend to jump on their weaknesses. As somebody said though, they [in their Ideal™ iteration] "wrote the book" on reloading and as a result, more than any other single company brought reloading into the home arena.

Anyway, I started my reloading career with a Lyman Tru-Line Junior press and Lyman casting equipment and moulds. Unless I have some compelling reason to do otherwise, most of my current reloading begins (and frequently ends) with Lyman products. Some people like green, some red, some blue reloading equipment. I favor orange ~ JMHO, YMMV.

the Green Frog

[bedbugbilly]

I own a variety of different makes of reloading equipment and I would imagine, each has their "drawbacks" or "problems" but much of that is also "personal" - what one person likes the next will not - human nature.

I started out with Lee dies - and they work fine. A bad Lee bullet mold and the response I got out of Lee sort of #@$$# me off - especially when it was a $20 mold and obviously their "bad" - alignment pins not pressed in and cavities misaligned by about .004 - I just couldn't see spending "my" money to send it back to them so "ate it" - but it sort of soured me on Lee for a while.

At the time of the mold problem, I picked up several sets of Lyman dies for new cartridges I was adding. I was impressed and like them very much - and have since added a number of other Lyman products - but most are on the "vintage" side. I also use their 310 sets - some vintage and some "new" and I like those as well.

Lyman molds? I probably have more of them than any other brand - most are, again, "vintage" Ideal or Lymans and I like them and have cast with several of them for the past 50+ years. The new made Lyman molds? I purchased one that was "used" - but fairly new - probably a year or two old - and I ran in to what one of the others here said - is was dropping undersize and that's probably why the guy I bought it from sold it. But, other than some postings on the same problem, I don't think it's a good thing for me to judge their current production by my one experience - it might just have been "one of those things".

Lyman also produces "Pachmyer" grips (sp?). A while back, I decided to switch my vintage S & W revolvers to those grips as I like them. I both a half dozen for my different models - all fit well but one. The grip for the Combat Masterpiece / Model 15 was a real disappointment. When the grips were slid on to the frame - the grip screw hole fell smack dab on center of the mainspring - no way it would work. I called Lyman CS - talked with a lady who told me that their grips "might not" fit all the revolvers and that the CM/15 was one of them. Huh? I then pointed out that the labeling on the package said otherwise and if they knew it, why wasn't it corrected - it evidently has been that way a long time and they've known it. The answer I got was that it wasn't guaranteed that they would fit. Rather than argue, I just put the old grips back on but to me . . a K frame is a K frame, a J frame a J frame, etc. and while the arc of a mainspring could vary a little, there is ample room on the grip to move the screw location so it would fit "all" CM/15s. My guess is that it would require all new tooling/molds and the cost recovery isn't worth it - but it is easy enough to change the printing on the packaging to alert potential buyers that they "may not fit".

Over all though . . I think Lyman is a good company . . . as good as any other and they have been providing shooters with great products for many generations. I'm finding that I am looking more and more at their products - vintage and new - when I need something . . . and the M die? I love them and am surprised at how much I utilize them.

[kenyerian]

I have a tru line jr, an orange crusher, a trimmer and many molds . Also use the 310 tool. Never had any issues, with Lyman. Alsoo 45, and 450 sizers.

[catgunguy]

When I decided to get back in to hand loading a couple years ago, it was a used Lyman Spartan that I bought because it was cheaper than an RCBS Junior. I really like it. I think Lyman made very good products for the money. I still buy their case prep tools.

[lightman]

Lyman was very popular back in the 60's, but for some reason the big stores dropped them in favor of Lee and/or RCBS. They made a good product back then and still do. They pretty much wrote the book on reloading. I hear that their customer service is way behind the others, but I have no experience with that, personally. I don't have much Lyman gear but would not shy away if I needed something and found it in Orange. As far as I know their QC is fine.

[bhn22]

The vast majority of Lymans tools are as good as anything made by anyone. However, if you need service after the sale forget it. They will find a way to seriously piss you off. They are also slow to develop new products themselves, notice that they do not offer a progressive reloading press for example. I still buy older Lyman products, and Ideal moulds because I feel nostalgic about the company that Lyman used to be.

[dragon813gt]

Made in China is all I need to know. Then there is no warranty service. I have my fair share of their products but they are always the last choice.

[MT Chambers]

I am not aware of any of the Lyman products that I use, being made in Japan.......dies, molds, etc???

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Their dies have always been good. Their molds were a lot better in the sixties than they are now. Mold offerings were a lot more plentiful then and then they dropped a lot of good ones for no reason. Press quality is ok. No one has ever explained to me why the #55 measure is still made with threads that fit the Tru-line press which has been out of production for decades. LLS

[bhn22]

Lymans owners are slow to make improvements. I have a landlord like that...
The Mag25 was a step in the right direction, but I have concerns about them buying some of their lead furnaces from the same people LEE buys theirs from.

[salpal48]

I have been a Lyman man since the 1960's. I have a lot of there products. i still use my first AA turret purchased in the 60's. They are a tried and true company. Yes, over the years they had some problems . buy-out , family sold out . but overall. there equipment is top notch. . No gimmicks just basic old line equipment. always reliable always working
Easy to talk with and generally a good company

[EDG]

Most handloaders talk more than they really load so many of the subtle issues with tools are never discovered or talked about much.
At one time I had about half Lyman dies. At the time that was 5 or 6 sets mostly to get the PA alignment dies or the M die.
I have since gotten rid of most of my Lyman die sets. Everything they made worked ok. Most RCBS dies seemed to work better to me.
Lyman FL sizers set the headspace clost to the minimum when sizing a bottle neck case. The FL dies also squeeze the neck down about .004 smaller than an RCBS FL die. Don't be surprised if you pull the rims off of a few cases when using Lyman FL rifle dies.

Mostly Lyman is just an old company with old New England style management and time is passing them by.
The orange 450 lubesizers have a terrribly sloppy ram and I don't think it would matter the slightest amount to talk to Lyman about it.

[GoodOlBoy]

I like lyman products, but then again I like lee products too. The fact that they work for me is what makes me like 'em.

GoodOlBoy

[David2011]

My experiences with Lyman are all positive. About 10 years ago they helped me with replacement small parts on an old Ideal mold that used a different size screw than the newer molds- just dropped them in an envelope and mailed them; said it wasn't worth making a bill for them. Several years ago the delightful lady that takes care of many customer service calls told me that a rebuild kit was available for most of the Lyman 450 parts I wanted and saved me several dollars. I had a chance to talk to her again last week when I needed some parts for a #55 powder measure. She has always been so pleasant when I've called.

I don't have many Lyman dies but have several molds, mostly older ones. They are all nice to use. It's been 8-10 years since I bought a Lyman mold so no opinion on the newer ones.

I really like using old high quality tools so I'm a big fan of the older Lyman items and am fully satisfied with their customer service.

David

[ohland]

At the time that was 5 or 6 sets mostly to get the PA alignment dies or the M die.
Mostly Lyman is just an old company with old New England style management and time is passing them by.

My latest attempt to buy Lyman went down in flames. Lyman re-introduced the 439186, it still makes the .439 H&I die, a Top Punch (251), but it has NO M-die expander plug for it... They used to, the "43R" but no more. What a way to really make the customer use Lyman, make a mould, a sizer, a Top Punch, but no M-die. I suppose they figure that people want to use the Lee "universal" expander or the RCBS expander...

FWIW, I see that NOE makes a "Lee-Lyman" expander plug. It fits in the Lee expander and it has the two-step expander that the Lyman M-die uses.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/25LR-EXP%20001.JPG

Personally, I dislike the Lee expander (style-wise), but for the .43 Spanish, I doubt that I'll notice any lessening of accuracy.

Old style management. Ding-ding-ding! Why not LIST Lyman parts so mere customers can ORDER them? If you SEE a product listed, you might WANT to buy it. Ever get the feeling that the customer service rep is not totally clear on what part you want? I bought an extra expander stem exactly because of miscommunication... If it would have been a part I could never use, it would have wired me up a bit....

I have bought Lyman shell holders, moulds, H&I dies, Top Punches, and expander stems (with plugs). Dies? I don't even look at them (just not sure I want to drop money on them, nothing really new). RCBS (very good stuff, have a comp die plus sleeves and stems), Hornady (like the New Dimension dies, like the P-A but can use Micro-Stem!), Lee (for odd or low use cartridges). If I want to splurge, I'd buy Redding, but I don't need that level of precision... I have some Wilson dies, about half mic-top.

RCBS - A little rule-bound in the catalog side, but their customer service rocks... If I want to buy a very good die or tool, and want it to last, I buy RCBS. Hornady? Not bad stuff, customer service is responsive (but takes a back seat compared to RCBS). Lee? If it breaks, I save the earth by recycling. Some good products. Never warmed up (pun intended!) to their moulds.

[retread]

I started reloading in 1960 or 61. I started out with all RCBS gear. Over the years I have added CH, Lyman, Lee, Dillon, Hornady, and probably a few others that escape me now. If I need something to do a particular job I am not too picky as long as they are a reputable company. I've had excellent, good, OK, and poor from them all.

[smoked turkey]

I just happened to need Lyman customer service on a 45-120 FL sizer die I just purchased from Midsouth. The new die was not finished properly and caused my new brass to be scored for about an inch at the top. I basically like and buy RCBS products. In this case I went with Lyman. I called customer service and was treated exceptionally good. The nice lady offered me a couple of options in resolving the problem. After I suggested a new sizer die be sent to me and I return the defective one in a mailer they would provide. After a brief consultation with her boss she said the boss suggested that they send me the replacement die and I dispose of the defective one. Case solved. Yes it would have been nice if the die had not been defective in the first place, but reality is that those things happen from time to time. I just happened to get the defective one. I believe Lyman did the right thing and I was very pleased with the way they resolved the problem and I will be a repeat customer in all probability. I just wanted to report what recently happened to me. I can't speak for any one else that has had issues with Lyman. I know my issue was resolved.

[RogerDat]

Lee has made their name for having the acceptable products at a budget price, some innovation thrown in. Between Lyman and RCBS what would be the distinguishing market appeal? The M dies are popular but really between the presses, powder measures and dies which of these two is "better"? Some minor differences, The RCBS kits are very well thought out but both Lyman & RCBS sell about the same level of quality at about the same price point. Both have pretty good customer service reputations. Not everyone is thrilled but overall people like the products and services of either one.

I would not turn my nose up at equipment from either one, or Lee equipment either for that matter. They all make tools that allow one to get the job done. They all have one thing or another that is "better than the rest" for some use or another.

[williamwaco]

In 1956 my mentor told me that Lyman makes good serviceable equipment. Not quite top notch but not top price either. I think that is still a good description. I still use their dies but not their presses.

I would rank them in the 90 percent category. I have never been disappointed with them but when i want top quality regardless of price, i use other brands.

[ironmonger]

I have mostly all Lyman moulds, a few Lyman dies and a lubricator sizer... started in the mid 70's.
Seaco furnace and Rockchucker press.

I recently purchased a Lyman Accumeasure with two cylinders. I did finally find a complete set, but I had resigned my self to making my own.

I sent an email to Lyman, and they provided me with the engineering data that would allow me to make replacement cylinders. Great service for a product that has not been in production for years.

paul

[ohland]

Lyman Accumeasure with two cylinders.

I have an Accupress sitting in a chest. Havent quite figured out why the shell holder's won't fit into the ram, the retaining half moon spring won't allow it.

Instructions?

[lightload]

Lube the shell holder and give it a good rap with a screw driver handle.

[r1kk1]

I've been a fan of A2s, A4s, Summit, Reddings, COAXs, and Champion. Never was a fan of Lyman, Lee, Hornadys single stage or the RC. I have quite of few M die plugs that will stay. I have a few die sets from Lyman for obsolete or black powder cartridges that will stay. I sold both Lyman and Hornadys powder scale and case trimmer years ago. Didn't like them. I do like my Lyman moulds. If my Lyman lubrisizer ever gives up the ghost (I doubt it will) I will add the RCBS version.

I wish Lyman would bring back some stuff.

Take care

r1kk1

[Legion489]

i have some new Lyman dies, can't say they are bad, can't say they are any better than RCBS either and are not as good as Dillon/Redding, but then they don't cost it either. The older Lyman molds are good/excellent. Got a used lube/sizer that seems fine, no problems anyway, but then what can you say about a luber/sizer? The new turret press a guy I know bought hasn't been a problem in any way except he doesn't use it enough.

Lee presses are generally (I was going to say "always") junk, but some Lee stuff is top notch, and I have used/owned nearly everything Lee makes. Love Lee dies for the money, but RCBS is "better", and Redding/Forster/Dillon are MUCH better, but cost it. If I was forced to use nothing but Lee dies I could live with that, as long as it wasn't in a Lee press! Lee CS sucks for anything except small stuff. Problem with anything over $50 and the headaches are not worth dealing with, admit you bought low quality junk, eat it and get on with life. The Lee moulds are so-so, I've got as many obviously junk/trashed Lee moulds straight from the factory as good ones, but they finally replaced the junk molds (eventually!) if I griped and sent them back enough times. For the price it was worth it to try a different style of bullet. If Lyman would make four or six cav moulds in most sizes/styles...

My 40+ year old RCBS ROCKCHUCKER is fine, show me ANY working Lee press over five years old... Dillon has great CS and presses, and dies.

Everyone has a place, you just have to know which is which.

[Maximumbob54]

Oh wow. Really.

[j4570]

Lyman makes some good stuff, just as they all do. I use their lubrisizer. I also have a T-Mag II press (that my father currently has borrowed...) that I loved. And despite that pesky thread on the #55 powder measure, it can throw a small charge for those 32 S&W wadcutters (oh, I sold that...), but yes, update the thread, or did you case enough bases in 1974 to last till now???? I do agree they are old school so to speak.

I think the Orange Crusher was a better press for the money 20 years ago that the RCBS offerings, not so today, based on prices I am seeing. My T-Mag II did everything I asked of it, with ease.

The die sets, I don't have many of, and that's their fault, as I bought a 38 S&W set (which member here bought) that I simply could not get to load good ammo. It came with a SWC seating stem which I called and they were nice enough to send me a RN stem (ever seen a factory 38 S&W in SWC?-I haven't) for about $12 delivered. That die set didn't turn out to be such a bargain. This was pre internet days when info was harder to come by. turns out the member pointed out that the expander was a 38 special one and was not expanding the case enough for the 38 S&W boolit. He knew that and still bought the set (I was fortunate to find a great deal on an RCBS set used which worked great for me) when I decided to get rid of it (at a nice price I add). That was some 15 years after I bought it!!

Oddly, all my LEE dies (and Hornady) reside in Lyman boxes because I can't stand LEE's cheap (nor Hornadys large) boxes. And Lyman boxes empty are cheaper than RCBS.........but still good.

And oddly, the Acculine trimmer, though how ridiculously slow, worked for any odd case you had a shellholder for, and a pilot that fit. That's why it's still around, for that odd trimming operation here or there.

[Maven]

Never a problem with their presses (Orange Crusher & T-Mag), dies, or powder measures. The #450 lube sizer is easier to work with than the RCBS LAM I & II (LAM I has virtually the same body casting as the 450, but the II has a solid base and the same footprint" as the 450), but its Achilles Heel is the fine threads on the body and die retaining nut. In short, I've been quite happy with their products, including many of their moulds.

[flashhole]

I especially like their FL sizing dies.

[Elkins45]

I really like their M dies, and I have a couple of their die sets that seem very well made to me.

When I bought my 4500 lubrisizer (new) the ram was misaligned with the sizing die opening. I sent it back and they replaced the casting. I had to pay the shipping to them, but they did fix it at no additional cost.

I have only purchased one new Lyman mold and it wasn't undersized. I bought three new old stock from an oddball gun shop a couple of years ago that were produced in the mid-90's and they all make great bullets. My tumbler is a Lyman 1200 and I have been using it since 1988. Overall I would call myself a satisfied Lyman customer, but I own more Lee and RCBS equipment than Lyman simply because those brands have been more readily available when I wanted that particular item.

[clownbear69]

Its been awhile buy any reloading equipment but I will say this from a Big Box chain to a mom and pop Lyman consists of maybe 1%. Ive seen more Redding equipment than I have seen Lyman (in the lines of dies and presses and many molds).

Ive always been curious why I don't see the brand much

[Cmm_3940]

I have a Lyman digital powder dispenser that has loaded a lot of rounds with absolutely no issues.

I bought the Lyman hand tools for reaming and uniforming primer pockets, but ended up replacing them with Hornady, RCBS, and Redding tools, all of which have worked better for me.

I've never used an older Lyman mold, so cannot speak to that. The first two brand-new Lyman moulds I bought recently, 311291 and 311299 both drop undersize boolits. The 311299 in particular drops too small to compensate for by adjusting alloy or temp. As this is a bore rider, the small noses make them shoot like bananas, so it's pretty worthless to me. I won't be buying another Lyman mould. I much prefer the NOE moulds I've bought which can be counted on to drop perfect bullets.

I find my Lyman manuals to be indispensable as an unbiased source. Other manuals seem to be biased either towards greatest accuracy with a particular manufacturer's bullet, or towards greatest velocity with a particular powder.

[Char-Gar]

Lyman Gunsight Company was one of the big boys and industry leaders in the reloading business for a very long time. The family sold the company to Leisure Group in 1970 or so who continued to make most of the products. The signature Lyman orange color was turned to dark grey. After a time somebody bought Lyman and made it a free standing company again and went back to orange, albeit a different shade of orange.

With all the changes in ownership and management over the years, Lyman has never regained it's place in the reloading market. I doubt they ever will. They have not learned the art of customer service. If they would adopt the RCBS model, they might stand a chance of doing better. The RCBS model is; You got a problem with something made by us, tell us what it is and we will fix it or send you a new one.

I have many sets of Lyman dies of various vintages and they have all been good dies. I would not hesitate to buy Lyman dies again.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Their Lyman #49 manual is the Bible of reloading.

[John Guedry]

I don't believe anyone makes a better reloading manual than Lyman.

[Dframe]

I bought my Lyman Spar-T turret press used in 1968. Many thousands of rounds later I'm still using it. So far I've replaced the primer assembly twice(in over 40 years). Both times supplied at no charge by the company. I know these companies have their ups and downs but I've always had excellent service from Lyman.

[bhn22]

If only their Customer Service policies were as well researched and thought out as their reloading manuals are.