Hobby machinist - Is it worth starting?

[cs86]

Lately I've been really interested machining as a hobby. I've always had an interest with it, but never much of a use for it. I went to school for mechanical drafting and have always been interested with precision fitting of parts. Unfortunately the area didn't have much for jobs on the mechanical side. I still draft, but nothing needs less then a 1/16 tolerance in my current field of work so I never continued education on the high tolerance mechanical side.

With the joy of casting and all the equipment that goes along with it, I've wondered if it would be justified to get some machining equipment (lathe or mill) to machine my own parts. Such as push thru dies or sizing dies, check makers, nose punches, etc. I'm wondering if I have enough of a use for the equipment to justify starting a venture down the road of equipment and tooling.

Away from the reloading side I've tried to see if there was anything else I could find a use for this type of equipment and about the only thing I could come up with was occasionally turning down disk brakes or drums on the vehicles when needed. If I was still ranching I'm sure I'd come up with many more things to machine on occasion, but probably wouldn't have time to cast, reload or shoot :(.

What do you guys find yourself using your lathes or mills for on a periodic or regular basis? Is it worth it for just the shooting, reloading, and casting side?

[GOPHER SLAYER]

cs86, to even get started in building the equipment for a machinists hobby will require more money than you will ever save in doing it yourself. I had a well equipped machine shop in my garage including two lathes, milling machine, surface grinder, drill press and I had little money in any of it. The reason for that fact is simple. I the 1970s in southern California many machine shops were going out of business because the oil and aircraft industries were in deep financial trouble. This put lots of used equipment on the market. I was forced to sell all my equipment when we moved to a senior facility. Living in a less populated area as you do I doubt if you will find many machine shops going out of business. I will admit it is neat to have your own equipment. If you need a small part and you can make it yourself and that is the only way to look at it. As for saving money, it just won't happen.

[AJB]

The amount of money saved on machining projects yourself is very unlikely to be less than the cost of machinery. Most people, me included, just enjoy doing our own machine work and like all hobbies it has a cost. Still, to me it is an enjoyable hobby that I still invest in.

The most useful machine that you can buy is a lathe. Most people I know will tell you that their lathe gets used 5 times more often than a mill. With that in mind, you may want to consider a small Asian lathe to learn on and move up to larger equipment if you find that your interest grows.

[plus1hdcp]

Great question and I look forward to the replies. I am slowly treading into the hobby machinist territory myself. Is it worth it? My answer to that question has been is reloading and casting worth it? I most likely have spent more money in equipment, primers, powder, bench space, etc. than I would without loading myself. I would not dare calculate my cost per round versus off the shelf purchases. I do know the returns I have received have been priceless. I have enjoyed being able to take my children to the range to shoot customized 38sp loaded lightly to shoot in the absence of 22lr. My father who has is fighting stage IV cancer can accompany me to the range and we shoot as much as we dare to shoot. Much of this shooting is with the AR and it is comforting to know I can swage my own and shoot as we see fit. I cannot put a price on having the ability to share my hobby with my family.

The key word is hobby. My forum name is plus1hdcp which I developed from my time as an avid golfer. Golf was my hobby but it was my hobby and not my families. I can get my son down to the reloading bench from time to time. My desire with the venture into machining is to not only teach myself a thing or two while developing more tools for my hobby but hopefully have my son with me and teach him the skills also. We plan on building a small scale engine or two and see where it goes from there.

Good luck

[cs86]

As for saving money, it just won't happen.

I don't think it is for saving lots of money that I'm necessarily looking for. I might break even eventually. I think of the term "hobby" as more of a pass time with enjoyment. I consider a lot of my shooting as more of a hobby, and getting to be quite the expensive one. Machining would add to this hobby, but would it add enough to be practical or beneficial. A 20k lathe or mill is not practical for me, but 1-3k might be, which probably only scratches the surface of the machine itself.

I'm trying to find other means to justify investing into something like this. Like maybe some of you guys might be rebuilding cars and find that you use a mill or lathe all the time make parts that are hard to find or expensive. Or, you have a relative that likes to play with model planes and you can work on parts for the engines.



The key word is hobby. My forum name is plus1hdcp which I developed from my time as an avid golfer. Golf was my hobby but it was my hobby and not my families. I can get my son down to the reloading bench from time to time. My desire with the venture into machining is to not only teach myself a thing or two while developing more tools for my hobby but hopefully have my son with me and teach him the skills also. We plan on building a small scale engine or two and see where it goes from there.

Stuff like this ^

I think part of the thrill is I get to learn something new!


The most useful machine that you can buy is a lathe. Most people I know will tell you that their lathe gets used 5 times more often than a mill. With that in mind, you may want to consider a small Asian lathe to learn on and move up to larger equipment if you find that your interest grows.
That was my same thought.

[454PB]

If you shop around (Craig's List, etc.), you can find something that will fill your needs. For the casual hobbyist, one of the Asian combo Lathe, milling machine, drill press serves well. I found mine this way, and have less than $700 invested, which includes some additional tooling I bought.

[bangerjim]

Start out with a lathe. A lathe is the only tool that can make parts for itself! I have done it many times in years past. There is a current thread on here about modern Asian lathes you should read. HIGH QUALITY Asian lathes is the key!!!!!

I have a FULL machine shop and I can make and repair just about ANYTHING I need or want. I look at it as I do casting and loading.......do I save money...heck no! Do I enjoy it...YES. Is it relaxing....YES. Is it nice to know I can make anything that floats around in my head? YES and YES.

All my friends know of my "shops" and skills and do pester me to "fix this" or "turn this part" or I lost this, can you make one for me?".

You will need a significant pile of money to establish a full working accurate (key word) shop from scratch. I have been building mine since 1973 and adding and improving on it all the time.

Model making shops can be set up on a fairly small budget using Sherline and other small precision lathes and mills. They have their place in the hobby world. Saw a video on-line of a guy that built a complete mini machine shop..........in a closet in his apartment! He made parts for small things...precision parts. Not loading dies or gun barrels.

I do not make any gun parts or press parts or swaging dies at all or mess with ANY car parts! (I lease all my cars!). Although I easily could. All my machining is for scientific instrument repairs and reproductions and antique clock repair. And anything else that pops up that needs fixed around the company or house. I have never found anything I could not make which gives me a lot of warm fuzzies. I have made custom parts for some of my industrial customers when they were in a bind.

Example of $$ involved..............I bought (a long time ago) my vertical mill for around $1.2K. Since then I have probably spend $8K on all the tooling, rotary tables, dividing heads, attachments, etc. I now have 3 mills. (All tooling & accessories are interchangeable!). Same with the 5 metal lathes I have. Many $$ involved in tooling and accessories. And that does not even include all the metrology measuring and precision gauges you need to do precision work. I have a whole closet full of those. For me, precision is a ¼ thousandth of an inch.

1/16 of an inch will not cut it in metalworking.

Metalworking is not like woodworking (which I do a lot of in my wood shop and keep tolerances down in the thousands also). If you mess up, you cannot just glue a piece in the hole and start over or slop glue in a poor-fitting joint! Or crank a clamp down tighter while the glue sets!

Lathes and mills and surface grinders and the such are really fun and a great hobby. Don't plan on making a whole lot of money from them unless you are trained machinist. It is just fun and relaxation.

"Anytime a hobby starts to not be fun.......it becomes a JOB!" Thanks, but I have one of those already!!!!!!!

Best of luck on your future endeavors in the world of metal working! [smilie=2:

bangerjim

[cs86]

If you shop around (Craig's List, etc.), you can find something that will fill your needs.

Been looking. I haven't found anything quite what I was looking for yet.

[oldred]

What you will quickly find is that home machining is a hobby that is limited only by your imagination (and of course your wallet!) as it will open up doors of opportunity you never even dreamed of! When my wife and I settled on our farm I found myself needing a torch and welder and of course general shop tools in order to keep our farm equipment going, this was the type of work I had just retired from anyway so it was a natural. Almost immediately I discovered the need for a lathe and taking everything into consideration I was sure a small lathe was all I needed so I bought a New Jet 9x20 and was happy -for a while! I was bitten by the home machining bug and there is no cure for the disease that follows, I found myself doing and building things I had never even thought about before so before long I was in the market for a much bigger lathe. I soon found myself doing little jobs for my neighbors and other farmers that for me has grown into a fairly profitable sideline that has more than paid for the equipment, however even without doing that and just absorbing 100% of the cost this is still the most rewarding hobby I have ever tried. The farm equipment work almost immediately turned to tinkering with my guns and that very soon morphed into building entire rifles from scratch. The point is if you are interested in this type of thing, and obviously you are or you wouldn't be asking, then you OWE it to yourself to at least try it out. Taking a class at a tech school would be an ideal way to get started but I realize that's not practical for a lot of folks but if you can get any "hands on" experience anywhere I am sure you will be convinced in short order. The sky is the limit with this hobby and it's just something you have to experience yourself to fully appreciate, one way or the other you need to put this curiosity to rest and turn it into experience, the longer you wait the more you are cheating yourself!

I have met and known many machinists that thoroughly enjoy the art, and that's what it is, but I have never known or heard tell of anyone who got into this hobby and regretted it!

[cs86]

it will open up doors of opportunity you never even dreamed of!

That's what I'm kind of hoping for.


Taking a class at a tech school would be an ideal way to get started but I realize that's not practical for a lot of folks but if you can get any "hands on" experience anywhere I am sure you will be convinced in short order.

Thinking about it. Not sure it will work with my full time job and don't really want to spend the money, but could see how it would be well worth it.


building entire rifles from scratch

That sounds like fun!

[sdcitizen]

As a fellow Black Hills resident, I know what you mean about not finding much used on craigslist, etc. You should go down to Industrial Secondhand, its on Dyess avenue north of the interstate. That guy has scads of used machine equipment, and is willing to deal if you find something you like. Much better prices than Shoener's Machine. I only have a small 7x12 mini lathe, and its pretty surprising how many things can be made on such a small machine. I also just do it as a hobby, most of the things I make is for reloading/guns, but even the ability to make the odd custom bushing for other projects is nice.

[Jeff Michel]

Old Red in post #9 nailed it. You will never live long enough to learn all there is to learn when it comes to machining. Start in and make some chips, get a couple reference books. Machinery handbook is the one everyone recommends, but I'm not sure why. Definitely not for a novice machinist. Check out the workshop practice series, they are available through Amazon. They are geared for people just starting out. You will hit a learning wall eventually, and you will find it difficult to climb over or go around. This is the time for classes. At some point it just won't make sense and the additional knowledge will allow you to proceed. If you can get a mentor that will be an enormous help to you on the occasions you get stuck. It is doubtful you can find a more rewarding hobby.

[oldred]

I too have to wonder about the worth of the Machinery handbook for a hobbyist, for sure it has a wealth of information for a pro or an engineer but about all I have ever used mine for was just finding simple info that is available MUCH cheaper and free on the 'net. Not saying it's not worth the cost for all that tech info because I'm sure it is but someone starting out trying to learn the basics will almost certainly find this publication rather useless.

This one however is the classic and it most certainly is useful to a beginner, it has the answers to the common questions of "How do I,,,"!

http://www.amazon.com/How-To-Run-Lathe-Beginner/dp/1603864679

Cheap too!! :mrgreen:


Another good one,

http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Lathework-Home-Machinists-Stan/dp/1565236963/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_z

[HollowPoint]

I've been tinkering with stuff since I was in elementary school. Buying a lathe and a mill was just a natural progression. I started out with a cheap little harbor freight mini-mill and mini-lathe. It was quite a step up from shaping metal with a hacksaw and metal files. These entry-level toys/tools is what I learned my basic machining skills from.

In the back of my mind; even back when I was a kid, my ultimate goal for my projects was to dream them up, draw them up and machine them up. Now days I've been longing to buy a 3D printer to add to my dreams.

If you have a similar dream, you have to start somewhere, otherwise procrastination will rob you of more and more of your time on this earth.

HollowPoint

[oldred]

I would STRONGLY recommend starting out with at least a 12" swing, preferably one of the common 12x36 models, if buying an import -or even "old iron" for that matter. The quality of the 12"+ machines is like night and day compared to the smaller mini lathes, even the extremely popular 9x20 ( the same machine is also sold as a more realistic 9x19) that is sold under a bunch of different brand names comes up severely lacking for all but basic work. These little machines normally only power feed in one direction (when you can even keep the feed working!) and normally the cross feed is only a manual setup. They have many other shortcomings but of course the physical size of the work is the biggest headache unless it is only used for very small projects, still they can be useful IF a person is willing to accept their limitations. From 12" swing on up these import lathes are normally much better built with most having a quick-change gearbox, wide selection of speeds and feeds (in both directions including the cross slide), Imperial and Metric threading capability and of course the ability to accept much larger projects. Used imports in this price range can be found at some really good prices and even new they won't break the bank but unfortunately they seem to have undergone substantial price increases in just the last couple of years. If you are fortunate enough to find one of the old American or European built industrial machines at an affordable price and not worn out then they can be a good buy, a hobbyist would likely never wear one out and they will only increase in value as time goes by, good luck finding one of these old beasts however!

[alamogunr]

I'm not a machinist but when I was working as a manufacturing engineer, I used Machinery Handbook quite often. But in all honesty, only about 5% was useful to me. Back when I started, the internet was not even a word, so the "handbook" was about the only source of data and information.

I wish I had taken up lathe operation as a hobby along with several other skills. Too many other things take up my time now and time is getting shorter every day. If you are under 70, I would encourage anyone who has a "hankerin" to dive in.

[bangerjim]

In my occupation I use both Machinery Handbook and Chemistry Handbook regularly. But as said, if not in an engineering curriculum, chances are you will not utilize to the fullest.

Watch for older copies in junk stores! Found one for a friend for $2......was only 8 years old. Things do not change THAT much.

If all you need is drill sizes and thread info, get it off the web.

bangerjim

[oldred]

If you are under 70, I would encourage anyone who has a "hankerin" to dive in.

And the sooner the better!

[alamogunr]

I'm a book junkie and several years ago I ran across a Machinery Handbook published in England in 1940. Considering it's age, it was in very good condition. I could just see it being used in the war effort over there. I'm sure that much of the content is the same as now.

[bhop]

I'm a book junkie and several years ago I ran across a Machinery Handbook published in England in 1940. Considering it's age, it was in very good condition. I could just see it being used in the war effort over there. I'm sure that much of the content is the same as now.
1 inch 75 years ago is still 1 inch today lol.

[leebuilder]

Do it!
I got my lathe about ten years ago. Have a Smithy 12-20 LTD. Beware of the cheaper stuff out there, get good gear it lasts and is accurate and true.
I never got it to turn a profit or even make money at it. Love machining and having the lathe gave me indepentence, been a Red Seal machinist for 25 years, not a week goes by that i dont make metal smaller. Once the word hit the street i have been helping many peaple, repair and parts making. I have many projects from steam engines to scope mounts.
I can say now it has payed for itself at least five times over.
As for info the internet is a great source now, and ideas for projects as well.
my only limit is my imagination.
be safe
need help ask.

[oldred]

The thing is a person doesn't have to buy everything he will eventually need all at once, just starting with the lathe as was said earlier will get a person hooked for life and from there it can only get better! Obtaining the basic machine is the first step but then comes the tooling, if looking at a used lathe consider the fact that tooling can easily cost as much as the machine eventually and if a used machine has a lot of tooling with it that can make the deal worth a heck of a lot more. Personally I think the tooling "packages" that some outfits sell are a big waste, buy only what you need as you need it and you will avoid spending a lot of money on tool box clutter!

[Jeff Michel]

If your looking for some hobby type ideas, here is group of pretty clever folks. It will give you a sense of what level of skill a "hobby" machinist can obtain. http://www.modelenginemaker.com

[KCSO]

You get started and there will be no end of uses. Your neighbors will be over can you make this all the time. I make my own tools, dies, punches, lawnmoer parts scribes and more. I have made parts to fix the dishwasher and the garbage disposal. Start slow and work up and each additional tool you add adds to what you can do for yourself.

[blaser.306]

Get your equipment and enjoy it! I have had many people tell me buying equipment is / was a waste of money! I don't believe them for a minute!!! I can go into my shop and look at my goodies, turn them on and work with them for a while and always amaze myself when a shiny new tool emerges. So do not let the nay Sayers influence your decision. But do take the advice that has been given here, Buy the best you can afford. I did just that and am happy with what I have, would I be happier with a Hardinge tool room lathe? Perhaps! Would I be happy with the divorce that would have come along with it , I think not. Bear in mind that the machinery is just that. Machinery, the tooling is where the cash is!!! One of the biggest obstacles I have encountered here is buying tooling. If you aren't a full CNC shop you are not considered a machinist. most places will not even open the door for you if you are not spending thousands of dollars a month with them. Then there comes the free " advice " given by the new trained machinists ( operators ) I was kindly informed one fine day that is was impossible to cut a thread single point with a non CNC lathe.
So, to re emphasize, buy your machinery ( best you can afford ) pick away at tooling ( again the best you can afford ) and learn at your own speed. Most of all have fun and be safe! Equipment has no remorse!

[cheese1566]

As a fellow Black Hills resident, I know what you mean about not finding much used on craigslist, etc. You should go down to Industrial Secondhand, its on Dyess avenue north of the interstate. That guy has scads of used machine equipment, and is willing to deal if you find something you like. Much better prices than Shoener's Machine. I only have a small 7x12 mini lathe, and its pretty surprising how many things can be made on such a small machine. I also just do it as a hobby, most of the things I make is for reloading/guns, but even the ability to make the odd custom bushing for other projects is nice.

Ditto from the Northern Hills as well. I like to cruise Industrial Secondhand myself. He gets some lathes from time to time and his inventory changes. I looked but settled on a bigger Grizzly after I tried ordering a mini. I bought one for your same reasoning. I like to tinker and learn on it. I have made dies for sizing, dies for 45acp shotshell, small parts, and a legal suppressor. I don't use it much during winter since I don't constantly hear my garage.

Take a look at harbor freight in Rapid City, they have a mini on the shelf.

[oldred]

I have posted these pics before but these two rifles were built with just my lathe before I acquired a mill using a homebuilt milling attachment and a few other homemade tooling items. These were built totally from scratch using raw materials for everything except for the barrels and brass butt plates, the barrels were machined from heavy raw blanks from Green Mountain barrels with even the octagon flats on the larger one being done on the lathe using another homemade attachment.

The point is you really don't "need" a shop full of high tech equipment to accomplish something meaningful, certainly all the bells and whistles make things go easier and faster but that's the beauty of doing this as a hobby -you can take the time you need! I worked, if you can call it work, on each one of those things for months but it was time I probably would have wasted sitting in front of a tv otherwise. I have since acquired my mill, well two of them actually a BP clone and a mini-mill both of which have their place, and various other bits-n-pieces to feed this fever.

[dh2]

in younger days I did get a two year degree in tool and die, but working on trucks for uncle sam and other has paid the bills, over the years some of what I learned has served me well. but making a friend that has passed, that was a gun smith help me come out with a rifle that I wanted for many years, a 98 Mauser in .338-06 and what that started me doing I have servile 98 Mausers built in what ever caliber I wanted at the time. done with an old but good belt driven South Bend lathe and a Bridge port mill both over 50 years old.
There is many shops of all kinds where these old Machines are still working to day, I am looking around to find some at auction. I am sure the work is out there for them if only for a hobby.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I am sure there are people who find it infuriating when you say things like "it all depends what you mean by worth it." But in this case it is true. I don't know any aspect of amateur machining in which you can actually save money on things you could have bought. It depends on how much you enjoy doing things for yourself, and often things that couldn't be bought.

I'd agree that the lathe is by far the most useful of machine-tools. You can even do a lot of small milling jobs with a vertical slide and vice on the cross-slide. While a large lathe is undoubtedly the counsel of perfection, a lot of very useful work can be done on sights, scope mounts, firing-pins etc. with a small one.

The biggest step up in usefulness comes with a headstock bore large enough to fit a barrel into and work on the chamber end. A pretty good second best is something like my 7in. swing extra long bed Myford, which can accommodate a barrel between centres, so that you can thread a barrel at the tailstock end. But I once threaded a P14 Enfield barrel on a 13in. between centres lathe, by temporarily soft soldering a mandrel into a short chamber, removing the tailstock altogether, and supporting the muzzle end of the barrel in the fixed steady.

While many will advise you (reasonably enough) that a used American or European lathe may be better value than a new Asian one, you should make sure that it doesn't leave you looking for unavailable parts and accessories. Worst of all, perhaps, is an elderly lathe which requires change wheels to set the screw-cutting pitches, and doesn't have the change wheels. Watch out, too, that you don't buy a machine with freak toolholding tapers (by modern standards), such as Brown and Sharpe.

A collet chuck is a very useful accessory. Mine is for 5C collets, which go up to 1.125in. in size, aren't unduly expensive, and are available in a very wide range of Imperial and metric sizes, including square and hexagonal. For a milling machine, if it isn't really small, a rotary table or spin index fitment is useful. With this and the lathe, you can make reamers.

[oldred]

I'd agree that the lathe is by far the most useful of machine-tools. You can even do a lot of small milling jobs with a vertical slide and vice on the cross-slide.


While the vise type milling attachments can be very handy I found them to be quite limited. What I did was to buy a small decent quality milling table and used parts from that mounted on a heavy angle plate, with the T-slots and the ability to move in all axises I was able to use my lathe in much the same way as a normal mill. I was even able to mount a 6" rotary table to this setup and also a small milling vise when required, setup was somewhat of a pain sometimes due to the table being vertical but once the work was clamped in place it performed quite well. Definitely not something one would want for a job shop or production environment but for a hobby situation it can be very handy indeed until a proper mill can be obtained.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You make a valid distinction here, and it also applies to the use of a compound table on a drill press. Either would be inadequate for regular work or extreme precision, and yet might be fine for a lifetime of the occasional jobs the amateur gunsmith needs.

[bob208]

as was stated get buy good machines first time buy once pay once cry once. the offshore mini lathes are to be kind toys to be honest junk. a good used south bend 9" would get you going.


one thing that no one has said is the independence you will have of being able to do your own machining. I guess I have been lucky all my machines have paid for themselves.

[Whiterabbit]

What do you guys find yourself using your lathes or mills for on a periodic or regular basis? Is it worth it for just the shooting, reloading, and casting side?

powder measure (measures top of powder to neck of case)
base for servo motor and linkage to my RCBS trickler
precision gauges for measuring case length (no-go gauge for trimming)
machining a perfect arc for a rear sight island base to match up to my barrel with no sanding needed
delrin guide block and slider for 1911-spring based subsonic AR BCG spring
ball carrier and muzzle adapter for a false muzzle caplock rifle for fast loading
Of course, 80% AR lower receivers
cutting diameters for concentric die threading
making brass range rods for muzzleloaders. Brass cleaning rods (concentric drill and tap)
Gas check seater (this is a REALLY NICE tool to have)
brass hammer for flint knapping
There are about 1000 things in your house that would nest nicely in other stuff if only you could reduce the diameter a little bit, or bore open the other part. No really.

I didn't plan on making any of this stuff. I bought the lathe because I offered a guy 200 bucks for it (Sieg C6) and he took it. I won't tell you what I paid for the Sieg X3 mill, but my wallet did not spend much time out of my pocket.

Thing is, once you have the equipment in the shop, uses and needs somehow just fabricate themselves.

--------------------

Now that I have it and have been building up tooling, next is teaching myself pistol barrel work. cut, single point crown, single point forcing cone, set back if needed, chamfer muzzle OD, etc. Maybe try cylinder chamfering if I feel up to it. will try dovetailing via mill for front sight.

[cheese1566]

as was stated get buy good machines first time buy once pay once cry once. the offshore mini lathes are to be kind toys to be honest junk. a good used south bend 9" would get you going.

.

Well, find us a nice south bend in western SD for the same money as an import...or just a nice south bend for sale at all. Good American tooling is kinda scarce in our neck of the woods.

[oldred]

Well, find us a nice south bend in western SD for the same money as an import...or just a nice south bend for sale at all. Good American tooling is kinda scarce in our neck of the woods.

You're right and there has been quite a bit of discussion about this on another thread, old iron is nice but it's in short supply for decent machines and has gotten quite expensive when you do find them. These machines are obviously old and have seen a lot of use, we hear about the gem that was found barely used from time to time and I'm sure it's true but a person can wait a loooooong time on such a deal and still never find one! If the Asian machines had a bad reputation or weren't up to the job it might be different but that's simply not the case, the 12"+ machines have a good following and most are decent machines that are accurate, reliable and with a lot of desirable features not usually found on "old iron" plus they are NEW! Buying one of those old beasts can be like buying a classic car, you had better like working on them as much as working with them! The fact is there are many more folks looking to buy a lathe (just check the back-order situation at Grizzly!) than there are examples of good industrial machines available, sure some folks can point to their own lucky find or tell about others but that's no help to someone waiting on the right machine to come along at the right price and most of the old ones are simply worn out.

[country gent]

Tool and die maker here for 35 years. Two things to remeber in setting up a home shop. You never know it all, and You never have enough tooling for the machines. A good lathe can do alot, maybe not save money but allows you to make just what you want how you want it. Imagine custom scope rails with 10-20mins elevation built into them. Scope rails with the redfield mount on side for appeture sight when scope isnt being used. Your powder easure leaks small ball powders turn up and fit a nes drum to tighter tolerences. Or make the new powder measure from scratch. Need a special thred for a project lathe will do it. Mills are also quite handy in what can be accomplished. First tooling to puchase are a set of 3" long dowel pins to fit tee slots. Use these when setting up on table with long parts to get close starting out. A sine bar is extremely usefull for precise angles. Makes setting up shallow angles much easier and more precise. An older machinists handbook can be helpfull for the specialty threads shown. Sine bar settings and hole patterns charts alone. Once you et started your ambition and imagination are the ony limits. A small bech mounted tool grinder for sharpening end mills and tooling can be helpfull. The old tool post and HSS hand ground toolbits will accomplish alot. Aloris type tooling is nice but sometimes is more in the way than not. there are several magazines you can subscribe to that give how too and actual projects.

[cheese1566]

Yep, I wanted a mini and had no harbor freight around. I looked at Grizzlies and tried to order one but it was back ordered for months. My dad talked me into bigger and better and I doubled my initial cost and got the G0906 that has a 1" bore. I am glad I listened as I can run 1" and 7/8" stock in it. It easily cuts 7/8-14 threads for dies. I am sure it isn't precise as a good American or gun smithing lathe, but it is functioning quite well for me and my small projects and learning. I don't and won't plan using it for a living or production.
Heck, I was going to thread my 22LR barrel but decided it was above me at the moment in concentric issues. So I outsourced it to Volquartsen.

my two cents:
- get a copy of How to Run A Lathe
- get some HSS blank bits and learn how to grind your own (before using carbide! I am glad I did at first as I made custom bits for my suppressor baffles)
- get friendly with a local machinist and ask him questions ( I am grateful to have a father-son owned machine shop across the street from office. Homemade baked goods goes a long way when they take coffee breaks at 10am!!)
- Enco.com and Shars for cheap tooling ( gasp, Asian stuff again!)
- have fun and stay safe!

[rondog]

I was a machinist for a lotta years and loved it. I really miss it. But doing it as a hobby? Bring cash. Lots and lots and LOTS o' cash! The machines and getting them set up to run is bad enough, but the tooling for them is brutally expensive. And you WILL break tools!

Not something I'd recommend, especially if you've never done it before.

[JSnover]

I'm sure that much of the content is the same as now.
Geometry works as well now as it did then. Later editions include new materials but the home shop machinist would probably get along well enough with pre-war copies.

[smokeywolf]

I've been machining parts for 35 years. Did a formal apprenticeship in the old Metro Goldwyn Mayer Machine Shop. Took at least ten years before I felt that I could call myself a "machinist". Dad did some machining, so I inherited a small Kennedy box with some basic measuring tools.

I have a very substantial engine lathe and a comparatively low hour Bridgeport mill. Both machines came out of the MGM shop and both are of mid '80s vintage. Although the machinery is the heart of any shop, it is largely useless without the tooling. Where my machinery might be worth $14,000, my tooling is worth well over double that. And there is the fly in the ointment. You can get away with spending as little as a $1,000 on a used lathe, but you'll spend that again in the first year on tooling. That's just the start of this joyous madness; looking for that next piece of tooling that will enhance the accuracy and capabilities of your lathe.

There's..... face drivers, tailstock chucks, tool posts, that tool holder that didn't come with the post, follow rest, steady rest, taper attachment, live center, spring loaded live center, button die holder, indicator holder, solid carbide boring bars, inserts for the boring bars and other turning & facing tools. Oh, and don't forget the square hole drills... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjckF0-VeGI Do I have these square hole drills? Yep!!! No such thing as having all the tooling you need.

Seriously, you are not going to save any money by machining your own parts. But, I can't describe the sense of satisfaction felt from doing it yourself. Plus, if you want it done to your standards, don't trust anyone else to machine it for you. The more stuff you can do on your own, the better off you will be when the libs have finished giving the Country away to the muslims and criminal aliens.

[Buckshot]

"Hobby machinist - Is it worth starting?"

.............Yes it is, if that's what you REALLY want to do. That is, if you REALLY know that's what you want to do, and would enjoy it. If you're not sure, or if you have an affliction of sitting in front of the boob toob, then don't bother. You'll regret the money you spent finding out, and you'll never get it back. A pittance of what you spent is what you'll get back.

I'd suggest that if you're asking then you probably do not have the burn. There are people who were machinist's, or worked in a machine shop simply as a means to get a paycheck. It was a job and nothing else. Of course there was the odd few who possibly used their knowledge at home as a hobby making what they wanted to make, for their own enjoyment.

If you think you'd make the occasional size die, or would be able to make the odd "do-dad" for a gun or accessory, or a part for the washing machine, then forget it. Save your money and pay someone else who already has the equipment to make it. I don't want to be negative about it because for myself I'd rather be out in the shop making something then doing almost anything else. The only time you'd find me in the house during the day is if I was on my deathbed. I get all fidgety if I'm away from my stuff for too long.

Quite often I've spent more money making something then I'd have spent buying it someplace! Must be genetic because my 2 younger brothers are about the same. Not as bad as me, but similar. I constantly marvel at the people I see at Lowes or Home Depot looking at some blow molded 4'x4' outdoor closet to store their shovel and hoe, that costs $400. Or a 8' x 12' shed made out of 1x2's and plywood, 2 squares of shingles and it's priced at $2600! Doesn't matter what it is. I'd rather be making or building something then anything else I can think of.

The thing is, without the 'Burn' (for lack of a better term) you may end up resenting every penny you have to spend for a piece of tooling. Heck, I had spent over $3000 in tooling for my vertical knee mill before I'd ever even bought the mill. I simply KNEW that I was eventually going to get a milling machine, and I eventually did.

I'm so bad I own tools I don't even know I have.

http://www.fototime.com/119B19CF0A73893/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9923BCC171F1192/standard.jpg

Swage dies, and core moulds for the swage dies .............

http://www.fototime.com/FF71C54128C408C/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/EA6CBE1EF182084/standard.jpg

Bullet moulds, this one for a 12 ga shotgun slug

http://www.fototime.com/AF0D350ED258A8E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/D3D2A1AD24E3CCD/standard.jpg

Rear sight for a an AMT semi auto 30 Mi carbine pistol, or a action nut to remove Krag actions

http://www.fototime.com/850688703938AEA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E6D55144DEF0585/standard.jpg

New bolt knob for an old Winchester 22RF semi auto rifle, die holder to use in the lathe's tailstock

http://www.fototime.com/D66C40169E05C42/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E353D1C4CCDB2D9/standard.jpg

Bore out a wallered out water pump pully from an old Waukesha diesel, make a new sleeve, for it and press it in, then bore to fit the shaft. Make a dealie bob to drill HP's in loaded 45 ACP's.

You really need to figure out if buying a lathe and then spending the time and money in tooling it up for what you're wanting to do is what you REALLY want to do. If you enjoy making things then it might work out. Just don't show your wife what you've just spent 10 hours slaving over as it can be deflating. She'll probably glance at it and say, "That's nice, did you carry out the trash like I asked you to?"

............Buckshot

[smokeywolf]

Really great post Buckshot, and sage advice. Always look forward to your posts.

[bob208]

I did not say all the import lathes are junk. I said the import mini lathes are junk. I used the 9" south bend as example of size most importantly the smallest that would be use full. I have run a few of the import lathes the large ones they both were good machines. I even bought a new enco vertical mill new it is a great mill way better then a Bridgeport.

things I have made
brass cases for a smith carbine
rifling machine and a deep hole drilling machine
a fixture to put screw in studs in heads a fixture to angle mill heads
repaired dies for a local company
put barrels on a few rifles cut a lot of sight notches
modified corvare cranks so they could be used in aircraft.

[JSnover]

If you have the time to learn and the money to spend, sure. It is some serious fun and very satisfying.
I'd start with a smaller machine, find out if you're willing and able to really get into it. Get a pile of scrap together to practice. Hook up with somebody who knows the ropes. Good luck.

[oldred]

Fellas I agree with your views on costs but rather than scare someone off with the expense we must remember this is for hobby use and everything is not necessary to start because many corners can be cut if the person is willing to spend the extra time, sure if you just go to someplace like MSC or Enco for your tooling you better have a healthy checkbook! I went for several years with just very basic tooling most of which I got from Ebay for pennies on the dollar buying only what I just HAD to have and only as I determined it's need vs cost, end mills and other cutters that are a necessity were something I was constantly on the lookout for and I "won" very few auctions but when I did I got a real bargain! I am talking about name brand tooling only, Niagara, OSG, Accupro, etc because I leaned really quick that while some Chinese machines were ok the end mills, drill bits and other cutters were a COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY and are more aggravation and frustration than they are worth even if they were free!

Those two rifles were built using just the lathe and basic tooling, HSS and Carbide lathe bits, a few end mills and drills plus a couple of other cutters I bought along the way such as some keyway cutters plus a few homemade tools, the most expensive accessory I bought was a new 6" Phase II rotary table for $259 (I later saw one on Craigslist for $75). I was not operating on a shoestring here and I could have spent a lot more at first than I did but time was of little concern and I enjoy doing what I can with what I have while waiting for the right "deal" to come along for some of the things I do want but can't justify the new prices for. I built that milling attachment for the lathe intending to use it for maybe a few weeks until I could find a Bridgeport or decent clone of same at a good price, I wound up using the attachment for the better part of two years but except for the extra time involved with setup and the fact it tied up my lathe while it was in use I doubt it made a lot of difference in the finished part vs using the mill if had I spent the money on one to start with. The whole point is that if buying the lathe new with the accessories that come with it then the very basic tooling to start making chips with is not going to be a terribly expensive out-lay, outside of a few lathe bits I think the biggest item I had to buy right off was a drill chuck for the tailstock. Sure I now have quite a bit of money tied up in my shop, just as I have even more than that tied up in my boat, but that's what it's for and I spend a heck of a lot more time in the shop than in the boat! Unlike the boat the shop expenses were spread out over time and it was not at all like I had write a single check for the whole mess, just start out with the lathe and add what's needed as it can be afforded (and keep a close check on Craigslist and Ebay!).

Just a note about buying tooling from Ebay/Craigslist, if you watch and wait you can get some killer deals BUT don't buy no-name cutters from China/India because they are worse than worthless and never buy used cutters that are not easily sharpened, lathe bits being an exception. End mills and other cutters are usually just someones junk they are trying to unload and will be worthless to someone without a very expensive tool and cutter grinder.

[cwheel]

I'm going to side with Buckshot here, you sure need the burn. This is something not to be done half heartedly unless you have money to burn. This is a expensive hobby if you enter into it at a hobby. Some of us older folks do have the money and time retired though and would encourage someone that is interested in machining, I still enjoy it after being paid to do it for 40 years and still enjoy making my own projects well into my retirement. I guess I cheated by accumulating machine tools along the way in the trade as well as a full set of machinist hand tools. I say the first thing to consider is taking a course in basic machine work at a community college. Not only would it help you get your feet wet, it would teach basic safety that you could take home with you. So many new hobby machinists get hurt without the safety taught in these classes, loose a eye, finger, hand or worse. Even after some training you need to pay attention and keep your wits about you accidents still happen. These classes would get you through your first couple of projects and teach machine operation basics as well. What you could take home from this is safety, basic machine operation, all the while keeping a eye on what machines and tooling are necessary to do what you are interested in. In these times, you are somewhat lucky starting this as a hobby. Many of us older machinists are passing on, while I have over $30,000 invested in hand tools, my wife will get less than 10% of this for my hand tools when I pass, because the demand for them in these times is low. Most tool buyers can't tell the difference between Starrett, Brown and Sharp tools from some import junk on the same table. There is another thread running here now on Grizzly lathes, now is a good time for these as well. The fine quality American lathes are by far the best, finding one that's usable, that you have the power for at home, is tough, and when you do, it will cost twice what a quality import will. This is a expensive hobby, and you will find you never stop buying tooling or replacement tools, just part of it. This hobby might end up being cheaper than buying a airplane, but cost will end up close depending on how deep you go into the rabbit hole. I've enjoyed doing this for a lifetime, paid machinist at 18 years old. If you don't have this " burn " don't do it, find something else that you do have the burn for.
Chris

[plainsman456]

I have been tinkering with cars and guns for as long as i remember.

I have made parts with a drill and files.
A few years ago i started a fund to get me a lathe and every time i made headway something would come uo and the funds were used for whatever.
last year i came on a deal for a small Atlas 10" lathe and have had a ball using it.
After watching some videos of folks using a quick change bit holder,i started asking questions about them.
I had a PM from a fellow up in the northeast who happened to have a set of 14 holders.
I showed the wife and she said what was i waiting on,because a starter set of 4 was about half of what was asked for this set.

As for the cost involved one can put in what you can when you can,i did a lot of cutting with that rocker post bit holder.
I don't pretend to know it all but it sure has been a hoot learning how to make something you need and can't find.

I look at this like i look at casting reloading,it's a relaxing time for me,i don't get in a hurry and what i end up with is like medicine for the soul.
Helps take everyday pressure off.
I learned on another 10" lathe and when i got this one i had to learn the ways of it but i still want to get a 13-14",well just because.:D

[oldred]

I look at this like i look at casting reloading,it's a relaxing time for me,i don't get in a hurry and what i end up with is like medicine for the soul.
Helps take everyday pressure off.



Just can't say it any better than that!

I would like to point out that this too is an example of what can be done without spending a fortune on it, buy the basic lathe and it might be surprising what a person can accomplish with just a few dollars worth of tooling and a bit of imagination! While those thousands of dollars worth of add-ons are nice and an absolute necessity in a job shop it's a whole different story in the hobby environment. Heck even those expensive measuring tools can be left to later, Harbor Freight type calipers and mics are not what anyone could realistically call good quality but they will work until those Starretts or B&S come along. Just basic measuring tools, a handful of HSS lathe bits that can sharpened to fit the need and a lathe is all a person needs to accomplish a lot.

[454PB]

The original poster wanted to make push through dies, nose punches, and maybe a gas check maker. Some seem to think you need high quality, expensive equipment in order to find out if this is your thing (or burn a Buckshot says). I think not......Lee moulds are an example of an inexpensive foray into the world of casting before you buy $200 custom moulds and a Star sizer.

I say get your foot in the door and try it with entry level equipment....then if it isn't your thing, or you go hog wild and want brand new CNC gear, sell the cheap stuff on Craig's List. I promise you won't have any trouble finding a buyer:grin:

[Buckshot]

..............Sometimes you 'Luck Out'. I both "Lucked Out", and was also in a position to spend considerable time on E-Bay (I worked a 12 hour shift at night, all by myself and we had a T-1 internet connection :-)). A friend of mine offered me a spare Logan 11x36" lathe. He had another 11" Logan he used, but an older model. Mine was actually made by Powermatic after they'd bought the Logan Lathe Co in the late 60's IIRC. In any event my lathe was made in 1981. For American iron that's recent history.

It was variable speed, 40 to 2000 rpm, backgeared, QC box and on it's factory stand. It has an LOO spindle nose, 2 hp Leeson 220 3 ~ motor. Along with the lathe I got a lever operated 5C collet closer and spindle nose adaptor, a 6 jaw Adjust -Tru Buck chuck, 2 jaw Buck adjust-Tru chuck, and 2 faceplates. One was a regular faceplate and the other has 'T' slots. A couple dog drivers, some live and dead centers and a drill chuck on a Morse taper for the tailstock. Plus it had a Stelling replacement crossfeed direct reading dial. All for the sum of $1500 and he helped me load it on HIS trailer, and cart it to my house.

http://www.fototime.com/B42999491991D09/standard.jpg

I rapidly learned how E-Bay operated, and began a systematic program for acquiring stuff. Some folks view it as if they were in some sort of competition to 'WIN' the auction. Wrong! I can no longer spend that amount of time on E-Bay, and honestly haven't visited the site in I don't know how long. In my situation now, I don't know of anything I need badly enough to spend the time looking for it there. I'm sure we all have stories of lucking out to such a degree it felt like theft 8-) I still think about a few with warm gratitude, HA!

I will admit to one and all that I had (it's under control now) this extreme mental sickness for tools that were shiny and sharp. Like endmills, and I didn't HAVE a milling machine! I knew I'd get one, didn't know WHEN or HOW, but I'd get one. So I was constantly mesmerized by auctions for endmills and drill bits, especially drill bits with parabolic flutes. Ah well, enough of that.

...............Buckshot

[oldred]

The trick to Ebay is to buy tooling only through auction and don't get fixated on any one item with a determination to get it! By far most of the end mills, for instance since that's what I bought the most of, I lost in the last seconds but occasionally I would get lucky and get it for a song. NEVER bid until the last few seconds because bidding early only serves to drive up the price since you can't get it until the auction ends anyway why bid early? It's called "snipping" and believe it or not Ebay even encourages this practice, make up your mind FIRMLY what is to be your highest bid and don't go over that -no matter how badly you wanted that brand new TiN coated Niagara end mill there will be another before long! A couple of more tips is to look for auctions ending on holidays and when it's late at night across most of the country, the best deals happen during those times. I suppose I may be increasing my competition but hey it works, try it!

An example of one of the best deals I got, TWO 9/16" coated extra long Accupro carbide 4F end mills that were listed for $158 EA at MSC, I got both of them for less than $20 including shipping! Of course not many deals even close to that come along but still I have managed a wide selection on mills and a really good stock for a fraction of what they would have cost otherwise.

[Jeff Michel]

Do let the tooling cost discourage you. An appliance to accurately measure, micrometer or vernier caliper is fine. A handful of HSS lathe bits, 6 inch flexible rule, and a 6" grinder, some raw material and you would be amazed what kinds of tooling and accessories you will be able make with the most basic of tooling. Sure carbide is wonderful stuff and many of the things that are sold are masterpieces of convenience to assist the machinist. But I tend to look at some tooling like I do fishing lures. Get the basic stuff, learn HOW to use it then add slowly to your tooling. Thinking creatively is where the fun comes in, e.g. setting up a job to machine, designing a jig or fixture or making a tool instead of ordering through MSC or Enco. Find a copy of The Workshop Manual (Tee Publishing) by George Thomas will give you plenty of incentive to build and use a huge amount of accessories for your lathe.

[cs86]

I haven't been able to get on in the last few days. I'm grateful and amazed at the number of responses to the thread. Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions. I hope anyone out there interested in this type of endeavor can read through this and get a an idea of what they might be getting into if they have a desire of getting into the machining world.


Machinery handbook
I think I still have this in my little library of books from when I was in school. We had an older engineer as a professor and he swore by the book. I remembered we used it a little here and there, but it always seemed like greek to me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

[QUOTE=cs86;3265161]Thinking about it. Not sure it will work with my full time job and don't really want to spend the money, but could see how it would be well worth it. QUOTE]

I hate to throw a bucket of water onto this fun fest, but if you are not able to go to a class and learn something about the discipline, it is pointless to invest money in buying tools you won't know how to use, with the hopes that Osmosis will impart the knowledge you need to justify the purchase.

None of this stuff is cheap.

My first machine was a Sherline Lathe. I bought it thinking I would be able to make all sorts of little parts. I didn't have any small parts to make, but I wanted the machine. I got all the tooling as well but didn't really have a clue how to use any of it. It was very frustrating simply because since I didn't know how to use the machine I couldn't get it to do anything right.

After 30+ years in business as a machinist and shop owner I could make it perform now. But back then It was a complete waste of time and money. The machine was basically useless for anything that I wanted to do, but the problem was that I didn't know that before I bought it. Luckily I found some tuna to buy it off me for what I had into it so it wasn't a complete loss. What I learned from the incident was to learn about what you need before you buy it.

I had a similar experience a few years later but failed to apply my previous experience to the new scenario. I bought an Airplane to learn how to fly. This cost me a lot of money with no return at all. I would have been much better off renting planes to learn in and that way you are tearing up someone else's machinery.

This is also the best way to learn machining,,, by using someone else's machinery!

Just buying a machine is not going to get you anything but a virtually useless machine.

Go to a class and learn about what you are trying to do first. Then you can make an intelligent decision whether or not you want to invest in your own machines and tooling. I also recommend having projects lined up well in advance so that you actually have a reason to buy the machinery other than just owning machinery.

MY.02

Randy

[oldred]

Been there also! I too bought an airplane with nothing more than a couple of hours as a newly licensed pilot on my brand new private ticket and quickly learned just how much of a money incinerator something like that can be, as the old story goes the two happiest days of my life was the day I bought that thing and the day I sold it! My machine tool experience has been just the opposite however, I started out with a determination to learn and even more important a need for the thing. After a while I went from making simple pins, etc for farm equipment to more complex gadgets and while I broke/ruined my fair share of tooling in the process of learning what things such as backlash and climb milling meant I did learn and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything else I have ever done. Home machining has got to be the most rewarding hobby I can think of and if someone is interested in doing it then IMO they should jump in and get started BUT be aware of the costs and be realistic, just like airplanes it's a fun and rewarding hobby/sport but can be fairly expensive so be truthful with yourself as to whether or not it is affordable.

[plainsman456]

Now days with youtube there are many videos that will show you how to do most any job.

When working in the oilfield and taking tools to the machine shop to get fixed,i did a lot of watching and asked a lot of questions.

When i got this little 10 in.i could already turn out side threads but have never tried to turn inside threads.

Well i did teach myself how to do it .I did a bad job on the first test piece and broke one of the threading tools.
But i will say that with everything i have tried to do with the lathe i have learned something new.

It does get addictive.

[cs86]

My first machine was a Sherline Lathe. I bought it thinking I would be able to make all sorts of little parts. I didn't have any small parts to make, but I wanted the machine. I got all the tooling as well but didn't really have a clue how to use any of it. It was very frustrating simply because since I didn't know how to use the machine I couldn't get it to do anything right.
Sounds like you had the "burn" as Buckshot stated to keep learning and pursuing to finally do what you wanted to do with the machine. :)

I've bought some of the books you guys have recommended, and have been watching some youtube videos. If the books entice me to keep learning I might look into investing more. Maybe see if I can take some classes when they come up next fall. If my drive depletes I'll only have books I've started with. I plan on reading through them to start getting a basic understanding, with hopes that I'll come across different tooling that will plant a seed of learning and growing to understand how different tooling works. If I have no clue what the tooling does there is probably no need to buy it until I find a need for it.


I also recommend having projects lined up well in advance so that you actually have a reason to buy the machinery other than just owning machinery.


I already have a list started and hope to add more and more. I figured knowing what I wanted out of the machine first would better determine if it was worth it. I try and justify what I'm going to buy before buying it. There are very few things that I have regretted buying. One thing was a set of golf clubs. I just don't make it out enough to justify the buy. For some reason I keep them and think; I've put money into them, I do use them a few times a summer, and maybe someday I'll get more interested.

You guys have given me more ideas to brainstorm with and that was the reason for this thread. Right now I don't know how all the tooling works and what can be done with the machine so I needed some more ideas to spark my imagination. If I can get my imagination going with what the machine can do It'll be more justified why I want or need it. Right now it's using it as a hobbyist, but maybe someday I can make it profitable.

[cwheel]

I think like buckshot stated, having the burn to do it is the biggest thing. Think taking a class at a community college will go along way to keep you safe and start off in the right direction. The first machine tool I focused on for home was a lathe. There is another thread running on the Grizzly G0776 lathe for gunsmithing ( 13 X 40 ) and it would be a fine choice to start out with, you shouldn't outgrow it. American mills like a Bridgeport, are still common enough to find in good condition at a good price used, lathes, not so much. Hand tools and tooling can be found cheap at pawn shops as us old guys pass and the family sells off our stuff. Just remember you don't need to do it all at once or buy something like a smaller lathe that won't thread, or that is to small and needs replacing at some point. Only buy stuff good enough to only have to buy once. Good luck and have fun,
Chris

[country gent]

Another thing to remeber is once the lathe and mill are aquired alot of tooling can be made in house fairly easily. For our smaller lathes we made a aloris style tool holder in house. 2 simple dovetails on the block lock was a sliding dovetail with a thumb screw on the back side of the toolholders dovetail. Worked great was accurate and repeatable. Boring bar holders die holders tap holders floats can all be made once the basic tooling is there. A lot of tooling dosnt need to be "hard" just accurate and tough.

[plainsman456]

And as far as tooling goes don't trash those broke drill bits or end mills.
They can be used for cutting tools because the end with flutes are hard the end that goes in the drill is not.

[fast ronnie]

South Bend had a small booklet called "How to run a lathe."There are reprints available, and I think brownells or midway has them. (I don't remember which) I've been a toool and die maker for 45 years, and I learned a few good tricks in that little book, even after being in the trade for years. Some of our so called cnc machinists would do good to find some of those old ways of doing things. My current race engine was built on a ww2 surplus lathe and a chinese copy of a bridgeport. It was all done "on the dials." I don't even have dro's on my machines. It can be very rewarding, but can be frustrating at times, too. I've done some real strange setups over the years, but to me, the challenge is somtimes figuring out how to do the job, and that to me is very rewarding. As said by others, it can be expensive for the tooling, but much can be done with just a few simple tools. The farther you go, and the more challenging the job, the more rewarding when finished.

[Preacher Jim]

as with any hobby it is the satisfaction of making it yourself. you load your own ammo. and when you score a bullseye you did it. when i build something it is there for ever and my wife says, Jim made that for me. my lathe and mill welding equipment and wood shop are my greatest relaxation. and a lot of money i did not spend on doctors because i could work off my frustration in the shop. also someday hopefully my family will use the tools.

[wonderwolf]

There are worse things a man could do than start a machining hobby......I'm lucky I got started as young as I did....can't afford drugs or hookers now so I guess I'm safe.

[borg]

Can anyone recommend a good forum for learning?
I will be taking the next class at a trade school in Oct, and would like to learn a little first.
I've already downloaded the two South Bend books and several others on Amazon for free.
Have read through them twice now, and picking up more each time.
Thanks

[oldred]

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum.php

[Suo Gan]

I have occasionally bought estates and many people have machining as a hobby. Usually the story goes from the seller or their family is that it sounded like a good idea at the time to them. An entire garage was built around the machines and they just sit there idle. People get bored. People go on chasing rainbows thinking that the next thing they find might actually make them happy for longer than a short time. I would start small and cheap and see if it is for you. Take baby steps. There is practically no resale on these things or it is a hard sale to say the least unless you are giving it away. Just buy a little old lathe and work your way up. If you are still using it after three or four years upgrade a little at a time. Make sure your wife has a place to park in the garage instead of the lathe.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

A hard sale on good used machine tools sounds like they ought to be an easy buy, but I haven't found them so. I agree that for many people it is a good idea to start at the shallow end. A cheap old lathe might set you off on a long hunt for expensive old accessories, and it can't be used for much besides gunsmithing. You might be on sounder ground with a good bench drill and a powerful bench-mounted belt sander, which do a lot of useful jobs, metal included, and are far more versatile for other kinds of work.

[oldred]

Actually this goes right back to the import vs "old iron" debate and it's a good argument for the imports! Cheap "old iron" American/European machines are almost guaranteed to be worn and parts/accessories specific to those machines are usually nearly impossible to find and the frustration sets in when the machine itself becomes the main project. The Chinese imports are NOT the junk that some would have people believe, they may not be industrial quality and durable enough to run three eight hour shifts five days a week but they are perfectly capable of doing 99.9% of the requirements of the hobbyist! The smaller entry level import lathes of less than 12" swing, quality increases greatly on anything bigger than that, are usually somewhat limited but are still a much better learning tool than an old worn out lathe with accuracy problems. These imports can usually be bought for nearly the same cost as the "old iron" of comparable size but they are "turn key" machines that require only setup and an initial fine tune to get them up and running, there are no problems with having to compensate for worn spots on the ways, slop in headstock bearings, etc. Often these entry level imports can be found used as owners are prone to up-grade as their needs increase so they can often be found for a real bargain, an experienced machinist can usually work around wear on an old lathe and still turn out decent work but it is almost always nothing more than an exercise in frustration for a beginner! My point is that success or failure at this hobby is very much dependent on the equipment on hand and trying to learn on a piece of equipment that requires special "tricks of the trade" due to excessive wear can lead to frustration and abandonment instead of enjoying an extremely fun hobby!

[Suo Gan]

start small. Buy the cheapest you can right now and work your way up. Most people that start machining realize they aren't getting a superior product, have invested much more than they are getting, and have several boat anchors no one wants.

To each his own.

[oldred]

Starting small may, or may not, be good advice but whatever don't start TOO small! The extremely popular 9x20 lathe (they are ALL the same lathe from the same factory regardless of brand including the Jet!) is about as small as I would recommend and even that's cutting it close. Even bigger for a few dollars more is probably a safe bet because this goes right back to the same problem as the old industrial lathes vs the new imports, frustration from being unable to do what is wanted. 12x36 import lathes were not expensive at all even just a couple of years ago but have increased quite a bit recently, still there was a really nice 12x36 with some basic tooling on Craigslist here recently for $1500 and it had been hardly used at all. The little 9x20s can often be found for $300 to $400 with some extras if a person looks around, again I am basing that on what I have seen for sale locally. One must remember that a really small lathe is for really small work, if the job won't fit the machine it can't be done and most folks here are going to be looking at doing gun work which precludes the smaller machines.


The little bench-top mill (the common Sieg type) I have in addition to my BP clone was $400 on Craigslist and it had well over $600 worth of extras included with it including a USA made 4" milling vise, various measuring tools, two dial indicators with magnetic bases, a dial test indicator with mag base, a BUNCH of new end mills (mostly Niagara and OSG) along with numerous other odds&ends and I have seen deals like this again since then.

[borg]

At what point would the ways be considered worn too much.
Is it the ways, or the tailstock?

ETA Also, this morning I picked up an 8" Craftsman grinder that someone had dropped on one end. The shaft is bent a tad. I don't want to beat on it, but though I might be able to use a cheater pipe to straighten. No big loss if I can't, paid $5 for it.
Thanks

[oldred]

At what point would the ways be considered worn too much.
Is it the ways, or the tailstock?

ETA Also, this morning I picked up an 8" Craftsman grinder that someone had dropped on one end. The shaft is bent a tad. I don't want to beat on it, but though I might be able to use a cheater pipe to straighten. No big loss if I can't, paid $5 for it.
Thanks



Normally the ways will wear most in the area nearest the chuck but can wear along most of their length. How much wear is too much depends on what you are willing to put up with, any easily detectable wear is a PITA and if accuracy is important it will have to be compensated for. Also the main bed ways are not the only thing to consider for wear, worn cross slide ways and headstock bearings are common on these older machines and those bearings are usually expensive plus rebuilding the headstock can fairly difficult to deal with -however not nearly as difficult as repairing worn out ways!


If you are talking about a bench grinder you can fix that shaft but be careful and take your time with it. You are on the right track with your proposed method and certainly right about not beating on it with a hammer! I repaired a Harbor Freight clone of a Baldor tool grinder using the method you described, I attached a 4' pipe (it's what I had at the time) and fastened the grinder down solidly then carefully applied pressure turning the armature after each try to check for straightness. The pipe/bar MUST be attached solidly to the shaft or you will probably never get it very close, that pipe/bar sticking out 3-4 feet not only supplies leverage but is also an excellent reference to the axial line running through the armature. If however it is loosely attached or just something stuck onto the shaft it will be useless for that and the armature stub itself is simply too short unless you also use a dial indicator to indicate it in, the dial indicator is a really good idea regardless but if you just use a loose pipe/bar then you will likely just be chasing the center and will be lucky to get it close. Having a 3-4 foot reference makes this task easy and even negates the need for the indicator. On a regular grinder (the tool grinder I did had a plate to bolt to) just use a bar with a centered hole that fits the shaft snugly and you will be right in business, making this bar is very simple and takes only a couple of minutes on a lathe and it's well worth the effort.

[borg]

Thanks for a good method on straightening the grinder.
I looked at a 10" SB last week, the indicated wear was .013 near the chuck, didn't check the cross slide.
The man wanted $2200 with few accessories and a 3 jaw, and that's the cheapest around here.
I may have to take a road trip out of state to find a good one.

[oldred]

.013 is more than enough wear to cause some real headaches!


This is a prime example of the on-going dispute (just a kind of universal dispute that occurs almost everywhere this gets discussed) of the old iron vs new import. While a 10" SB was of much better quality than a similar size import BEFORE IT WAS WORN the new imports will have none of these problems and the SB is only going to get worse unless it goes through a complete rebuild, unfortunately that sort of condition is more the norm than the exception for these old machines simply because of the fact they have been used for so long. For just a bit more than that price you can get a 12" swing import most likely with a longer bed, much larger spindle though hole, quick change gear box and NO WEAR! Those old SBs are classics but even if a person is willing to work around the wear the fact remains that the 12" import will take a lot bigger work that simply won't fit the smaller machine, if a job won't fit in the lathe it doesn't matter how well it was built. While there are many "nay-sayers" when it comes to the imports the facts say differently, these import machine are quite capable outside of a full time round-the-clock work environment and not only do they do more than just decent work from an accuracy standpoint they do indeed hold up quite well!


The little bench top "toy" type imports are another story however but it's a mistake to equate them to the larger machines, from 12" swing on up quality increases dramatically and outfits like Grizzly have some good machines in the 10" range at a very economical price.

[onefunzr2]

I bought a 7x14 mini-lathe from MicroMart in Berkeley, NJ because I'm fairly local and they allowed me to pick it up thus saving shipping charges. They cater to the model train folks. I am not, but somehow got on their catalog mailing list. They also sell mini-mills and drill presses. Another company that sells these small sized machine tools is
Littlemachineshop.com located in California. And finally, probably the premier purveyor of asian machine tools is Grizzly.com which has warehouses in Washington, Missouri and here in Pennsylvania. They sell from strictly hobby style to commercial quality.

You need to ask yourself what will fit your needs. I use my lathe primarily to convert spent 357SIG brass into 8mm Nambu brass for my Type 14 GI WWII bringback pistol. Both are bottlenecked cases. I can resize the necks on my reloading press. But the body is too thick. Since the 357SIG has a working pressure of 40K psi, the brass just ahead of the extractor groove is quite thick. The Nambu has a working pressure about the same as the 380ACP so milling a few thousands in that area is no problem. Of course I load them with cast boolits so there's not much wear and tear on the Jap relic. The brass lasts a long time too...I lose more cases than wear them out.

But a problem came along where I was happy to have that mini-lathe. I was rebuilding the final drive of my ASV Positrack rubber track loader. I was pressing all the sun gear parts together using a 20 ton hydraulic press. But I needed special tooling to get an internal selective fit 'C' clip to snap into place and hold everything together. Oh sure, I could have taken it to some machine shop and paid to have the work done for me. But as always the case, I have more time than $$$. So I found a 3/4" piece of scrap steel and drilled a hole in it big enough for the internal jaws of the lathe to fit. I set the speed to low and MIG welded the circumference to slightly bigger than needed. Then machined it to the final diameter. A little crude by industrial standards, but it worked perfectly for the job. And it was at hand when I rebuilt the opposite side final drive a year later.

I've got tube headers on that Chevy in my avatar. Changing spark plugs was always a chore as the spark plug socket was too long. So I cut it in half on my bandsaw, then chucked it into my mini-lathe to cut out the middle. I chamferred the 2 ends enough to MIG weld together. Then back in the lathe to smooth. Another homemade and handy project you cannot buy anywhere else.

144980

144981

144979

I recently purchased a Grizzly G0704 mini-mill. I have not had much time on it yet but it did mill off pedestals on an aluminum intake manifold and the choke horn from a carburetor.

144983

144984

I have no room for full size Bridgeports or Clausings. Nor do I have 3 phase power to run such behemoths. I'm only a wanna-be hobbyist. These tools serve my needs and I have fun using them.

Don't let some of the members crush your dreams by thinking you MUST HAVE a fully equipped commercial quality machine shop to fulfill hobby needs.

[oldred]

Don't let some of the members crush your dreams by thinking you MUST HAVE a fully equipped commercial quality machine shop to fulfill hobby needs.


Couldn't agree more! I now have a BP clone (Taiwanese) but I also have one of those mini-mills that I find to be extremely useful, sure it has drawbacks and limitations but it's really good for lots of things too! Before that I had only my lathe, a welder and hand tools but using just that lathe with a home made milling attachment I scratch built my two highwall type rifles so while a shop full of machinery is handy it's not an absolute necessity.

[borg]

I'm still learning the lingo, so please excuse.
What is a gear head, as opposed to not,, belt driven?

[marvelshooter]

I'm still learning the lingo, so please excuse.
What is a gear head, as opposed to not,, belt driven?
It is how the power is transmitted between the motor and the spindle. A gear head has a transmission and you move levers to change speeds. With a belt drive you move a belt, usually flat, to different diameter pulleys.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

A practice you sometimes see castigated by professional machinists is lapping flat bedways with abrasive paper glued to a piece of plate glass. I don't suppose it is perfect, and you must take care to bear equally on the two rails. It would also take time and labour. But if you do it until you can no longer get a feeler gauge between the left-hand part of the rails and the unpapered side of the glass, I can't see how you could fail to be better off than you would be in the rather extreme example of .013in. I'd consider a slightly low tailstock centre, all the way along its travel, better than angles and bumps. But some tailstocks can be shimmed between the clamped and laterally adjustable parts.

The smallest of lathes can be a godsend for things like screws and firing-pins,which form a considerable portion of gun fixing-up work. Even if it isn't screw-cutting, that kind of threading can be done better with a die holder which plugs into the tailstock, and ensures correct alignment. If there is adie, of course, but some rare special threads are available on eBay these days. Similarly, nobody can make trigger parts better than you can with the smallestof mini-mills.

A geared head for power to headstock is better than belts and a lathe with allor many of its longitudinal feed rates set by a gearbox is farbetter than messing around substituting greasy gearwheels. But a geared head on a mini-mill is a mixed blessing, if indeed it is a blessing. Mine is marketed in the UK as Chester, but is just the usual one you find in the US. The gears are nylon, and there is always a temptation to work a small machine too hard.There have been reports of the gears failing, and replacements, although the importers seem always to stock replacements (they would, wouldn't they?), they aren't cheap. But it hasn't happened to me.

Someone who makes a small lathe with a spindle bore big enough to accommodate the thick end of a barrel blank could clean up. I used to have a 13in. between centres Myford, and I did thread barrels, by temporarily soft soldering a cartridge-shaped mandrel into a short-cut chamber, supporting the barrel in the fixed steady, and cutting the thread leftward from the shoulder. But it is a lot of extra trouble.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MYFORD-ML1-FIXED-STEADY-3-1-4-CENTRE-HEIGHT-/351415486234?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51d1fec71a

Still on the benefits of a good bench drill, this picture is the trigger guard I made, along with a hammer, for a Belgian Spirlet revolver. I just copied and enlarged a drawing from AB Zhuk's book and one sent me by a friend, found no contradiction, drilled out the outline and used a Dremel tool, files and paper. Another good way of spending less money than on a good machine tool would be a heavier duty electric or air tool to do the Dremel's work.

[El Bango]

I've been machining professionally for over 40 years and can't get along without a full machine shop at my disposal. That being said, it can be a very pricey hobby. Perhaps a local community college has a program you could enter and just have access to their machinery. Or maybe a friend has machines you could borrow. Question, do you wish to cast boolits, load and shoot them or be tied to a machine re-inventing the wheel? Of course I know folks that have a lot more money than sense and have nicer equipment than mine that just sits unused and depreciates. To answer your question my answer would be 'No it is not worth it for just shooting, reloading and casting'. Michael

[wonderwolf]

Some days I am thankful I have a shop....others I seriously consider just selling it all which would cut my projects down by 2/3 as I'm always adding projects and hardly getting any done but then I wouldn't learn as much as I'm learning now. I've taken classes on machining and welding, kind of teaching myself how to draw "line sheets" or whatever you want to call them to help me visualize how to make something. I got a few books on "technical drawling" and used to draw during down times at work.

Now a friend and I are buying a rifling machine off another friend who started building it and has lost interest in it. We talked about it on and off for 2 days ( the longest time in recorded history we've ever discussed a purchase) The machine is the size of a medium sized lathe. Do we NEED it? NO however we can use it to learn about the process of making barrels and what makes them tick. We ache to learn about this kind of stuff and to possess ability to produce something from almost nothing. We can buy barrel blanks of all sorts from everywhere all day long for cheap but knowing how to rifle is something else in our books. The machine has a lot of work yet to do on it so its not a plug and play deal.

[popper]

Got a mild 'sunburn' for machinist work in HS shop class. Worked the lathe to make a few mini cannons & smooth bore for 'pirate' pistols. Got to welding and running boring machine - this was NOT a body shop class. Most of this was 'sans drawings'. Yes, I've had mechanical draftng in school but this is where the problem arises. Easy to dim. a drawing with holes 1/1,000" accuracy 5 ' apart? Spec surface finish to a couple wavelengths? Then try to do it! Yes, you can turn a rod, thread it, etc. on a lathe but tooling and measuring devices are NOT cheap. So I just use my elec. hand drill, saw, etc - if I can't get there that way, just buy or pay for it. I hate woodworking, really like metal machining but other than a few tasks around the house it has little 'purpose/goal'. I think Buckshot is meaning to say - you really must want to be a machinist as a driving force. Otherwise you just have some fancy tools you use once in a while.

[jrap]

I've always wanted a metal lathe but that's the extent of my needs. I have a full woodshop though

[cs86]

I've enjoyed reading through the posts and seeing everyone's thoughts. Here are some questions I've picked up on that others are essentially asking in order to understand if you truly want to take on machining:

-In your own words what does machining as a hobby mean to you?
-Do you realize machining is a wealth of knowledge that takes a lot of time to learn?
-Do you have time or can you make time?
-Do you realize machining is very expensive? Don't just think of the expense of the main machine, but tooling is more then half of it.
-Do you realize it can be very dangerous, and safety is the utmost importance?
-Do you know what you want from it?
-Can you come up with a big enough list of projects that will keep that equipment from sitting in the corner collecting dust.
-Will you have a passion to keep learning and keep using the equipment?
-It would be smart to take some local classes to get a basic understanding and safety. They would be a wealth of knowledge and you wouldn't be out much if it wasn't your thing.
-Reading books, finding a mentor, or researching on the internet would be beneficial/essential for learning.
-As a hobby don't expect to make your money back. It is for pure enjoyment and satisfaction.

If a person can answer these and understand what they might embark then a person can get a little better idea whether it's worth diving into or not.

Thanks for all the input!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Some days I am thankful I have a shop....others I seriously consider just selling it all which would cut my projects down by 2/3 as I'm always adding projects and hardly getting any done but then I wouldn't learn as much as I'm learning now. I've taken classes on machining and welding, kind of teaching myself how to draw "line sheets" or whatever you want to call them to help me visualize how to make something. I got a few books on "technical drawling" and used to draw during down times at work.

Now a friend and I are buying a rifling machine off another friend who started building it and has lost interest in it. We talked about it on and off for 2 days ( the longest time in recorded history we've ever discussed a purchase) The machine is the size of a medium sized lathe. Do we NEED it? NO however we can use it to learn about the process of making barrels and what makes them tick. We ache to learn about this kind of stuff and to possess ability to produce something from almost nothing. We can buy barrel blanks of all sorts from everywhere all day long for cheap but knowing how to rifle is something else in our books. The machine has a lot of work yet to do on it so its not a plug and play deal.

Strictly speaking nobody really needs anything except food, water, shelter, and clothing if the climate is cold or the neighbours are fussy. Most of us want reproductive opportunities (or whatever you call it) in at least some point in our lives, and it is just as well that most do. But most of us pay money, sometimes a lot of money, for things we enjoy. It is all a matter of how much we enjoy it compared with the alternatives, and whether we will go on enjoying it once the capital investment is made and the routine outlay is cheap.

Barrel rifling is a fascinating project, though I have never done it. It is also one in which the careful and thoughtful amateur can do just as well as anybody. HM Pope's work has more often been equaled than it was in his lifetime, but probably never excelled, and he did it on an ordinary lathe, smaller than most people on this thread seem happy with. About as small as mine, in fact. If you are talking rifle-length barrels, I believe obtaining a smooth, consistently dimensioned bore without work-hardened spots would be just as important as the rifling.

I spoke too soon on an earlier post. I said the drive gears in my mini-mill had never failed. Well, one did the other day. The longitudinal table developed a juddering end-float which, in combination with a heavy cut, broke the nylon gear which meshes with the one in micarta or some such on the motor itself. I think it is meant to fail before something more expensive and less accessible does, for changing it is simplicity itself. As soon as I had done it, I found two Allan setscrews in the endplate of the table, entirely unmentioned in the manual.

I found the distributors very helpful, downloaded a manual and parts list when I couldn't find mine, and bought a replacement on the phone for £9.03. I had a second line of attack if it ever becomes unavailable, though, and the technique for finding a substitute gear is worth describing. I claim no expertise, as I found it all on Wikipedia.

The spur gear has 30 teeth, and diameters of 41.4mm. root to root and 48mm. crest to crest. Gears are specified by the module number, which derives from the pitch diameter, a figure difficult to measure but bigger than root and smaller than crest. So I took it as mid-way between those two, or 44.7mm. They you divide it by the number of teeth, giving module 1.49.

Since there is unlikely to be any such thing, I searched eBay for module 1.5, and got the following in glass-filled nylon. The published diameters and the bore are right. It would have to be turned thinner, but I could easily make a keyway broach good enough to cut a keyway in nylon.

That machine has its limits. But the day I got it set up, I made a solder-on base for a base to fit a pre-war Zeiss 7/8in. scope with an obsolete Leupold external-adjustment mount, to a sporting Martini carbine in .40-65 (or some vanished European round indistinguishable from it), which I acquired as near-scrap with a perfect bore. Can you put a price on something like that? I bet a machinist you employ to do it could put a hefty one. That machine earned a considerable chunk of its keep in one very long evening.

[Doc1]

I think a lot of acquiring a hobbyist's machine shop comes down to the old time-versus-money equation and being settled down in the right location. I was in my thirties before I became a long-term property owner who had suitable workshop space for these things. Think about it, gents; how and where does a twenty-something living in a series of apartments or having a shared house with room mates keep a room full of machines? It can be done to greater or lesser degrees, but having workshop space should be the priority before you buy your first machine.

Then it's time to get a lathe. Throughout most of my life, I've been "progressively frugal." That's a term I just made up which is synonymous with "penny-pinching cheapskate." I remember pouring through the Harbor Freight and Grizzly catalgues years ago, longing for some of their Asian machines to get started. The aforementioned lack of work space and a sometimes chronic shortage of cash always seemed to put my first lathe just out of reach. Then there were always these trivial, unimportant expenses that seemed to arise just when I was ready to get my first machine. You all know what I mean: birth of a child, unexpected surgery, food, electric bills, transmission for the wife's car... etc. Men, let me give you a hint, here. Saying, "Honey, pioneer women were made of sterner stuff! Why, they wouldn't think twice about walking fifteen miles to work each day," is probably not the best way to save up lathe money and maintain domestic tranquillity. Just sayin'...

Eventually I found my first machine in a little shoppers paper ad. It was a really nice 6" Craftsman/Atlas lathe for the unbelievable price of a hundred bucks. Since then I've found several new-to-me machines in the shoppers papers and on the net. I now have a 10"x36" Atlas lathe, a 8"x12 Chinese mini lathe, an old Rockwell drill press and a couple of large Chinese drill presses. All of them have been purchased used and cheap and some needed attention/restoration on my part, but I got them all working and they saved me a ton of money over buying new.

A rich man could open the checkbook, have a shop built and buy whatever he wanted. My path has been much slower and frugal, but I have acquired most of the machines I wanted and rebuilding/restoring them taught me more about the machines than I ever would've learned buying new.

Best regards
Doc

[oldred]

Doc you bring up a very good point about having an established location for the long term, moving heavy bulky shop machinery is no easy (nor inexpensive) task. How many times have we seen ads and actual machinery sitting outside rusting under a tarp or plastic covering with a for sale sign, a long term place to put this stuff is the first order of the day!


OTOH, if it's practical to do it now then don't wait too long, my ONLY regret with buying my machinery and getting into this hobby was putting it off until I was too danged old! I had only dabbled a little with a lathe, probably only 8 or 10 hours and that without any instruction, prior to buying my first lathe so it was an unknown for me. At the spry young age of 62 I acquired my first real new lathe and actually had to read the manual to find out how to turn the dang thing on, I wasn't all that green around machinery but I was not at all familiar with that one. This was bought as a work tool to repair tractor parts, machine shops around here are not exactly "farmer friendly" and can not afford to work at rates most of us small farmers could afford, not a slap at them they are just trying to make a living the same as me but a fact all the same. Thus I bought my lathe as simply a tool to repair tractors and equipment at an affordable cost with little else in mind, after several hours, many discussions with a machinist friend of mine and a few broken tools later I not only discovered this was indeed going to be what I had hoped it would it also was a LOT of fun! I got seriously hooked after turning out the first few pieces and took a lot of pride in what I had made with my own machinery and my own two hands, then the hobby part of it set in on me! Starting out making a few parts for an old shotgun got me to thinking, if I could make these parts then if I made all the parts they should assemble into a whole gun right? Well it wasn't that simple but it did work and has now become a full time hobby for me, what was meant to be a working tool turned out to be the most interesting and productive endeavor of my entire life. My point is if you think you want to do this then you probably really do and anyone interested owes it to themselves to find out, it may take a while to get good at it but half the fun is getting there so it starts with day one! It also takes time to acquire machinery and tooling and this is not just cost concerns but learning what you need for what your interests are, you could easily spend many thousands of dollars on tools you would never have a use for and still need tools you don't have if you just buy what you THINK you might need all at once at the start. Start out slow with just the very basics and only buy what you need as you need it, you will save a lot of money and won't waste space storing un-needed items that way.


The bottom line is this is an extremely rewarding hobby that unlike most hobbies will yield something useful and something that can last a lifetime but it's something that needs to develop over time as you learn and the sooner you get started the better!

[GT1]

For the casual hobbyist, one of the Asian combo Lathe, milling machine, drill press serves well. I found mine this way, and have less than $700 invested, which includes some additional tooling I bought.

This is what I would look for. These are large enough to do what we want, accurate enough if you do your part, and take up little room(most can find room for these small combo machines in their reloading area).

[bangerjim]

And another ancient thread RISES FROM THE GRAVE!!!!!!!

HA.....ha!

[redneck1]

I will never figure why people get snide when an old thread gets dug up .
I'd think a better reaction would be the opposite one , people reading threw old threads and learning is a good thing .

[GT1]

We could just start new ones on old topics that have been covered before and remove the search feature?

[oldred]

I will never figure why people get snide when an old thread gets dug up .
I'd think a better reaction would be the opposite one , people reading threw old threads and learning is a good thing .

That one's easy, it often leads to someone unknowingly taking the time to try and offer advice to someone who has long since solved their problem and occasionally even reply to someone who hasn't been logged on for years. There's nothing at all wrong with digging up and old thread if someone has something to add but when doing that they need to acknowledge they know the thread is old so others can reply accordingly if they want to reply. Before someone starts in on me about the dates being clearly shown I know that but few just automatically go back and check the OP date before replying to what very well might look like a new thread, it's very easy to get caught up in an old thread and spend wasted time and effort on what is often now an irrelevant answer to a question.

See an old thread and want to reply? Like I said nothing wrong with that just give a heads up so that others will be sure to know before wasting time on what is all too often a useless reply to someone who may not even be a member anymore. We have all seen it, someone asks a question about a problem they might have, for example, and 5 years or so later someone else unknowingly tries to help by picking up and answering as if the OP was just yesterday because someone dug up and old post.

[bangerjim]

Teeee.....heeee......heeeee.

I like poking a wasp’s nest (from afar) to see what happens!!!!!!! HA.....ha!

[oldred]

Teeee.....heeee......heeeee.

I like poking a wasp’s nest (from afar) to see what happens!!!!!!! HA.....ha!

Especially when you have a darn good point!

[woodbutcher]

:grin: Might be old and risen from the dead,but sure is interesting and to the point.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[oldred]

Yep, there's still lots of good info that can be added to this but now at least anyone who posts will know the subject is a bit dated and can reply accordingly.

[Wolfer]

Even though the thread may be old I suspect there are people who would like to ask this or a similar question. Being a hobby machinest wannabe I enjoy threads like this.

[GT1]

It is interesting to me. It came up in a search, silly me for not reading the date(I don't care) but almost any kid that liked shop class in school always held a fascination in the lathe and mill, at least I did. I have heard the saying many times, if you have a lathe and mill, you can pretty much replicate another lathe or mill with them.
The mini mill/drill/lathe combo looks like a great way to explore basic machining without going whole hog machine shop, or buying those not very good almost toy grade contraptions.

[oldred]

It is interesting to me. It came up in a search, silly me for not reading the date(I don't care) but almost any kid that liked shop class in school always held a fascination in the lathe and mill, at least I did. I have heard the saying many times, if you have a lathe and mill, you can pretty much replicate another lathe or mill with them.
The mini mill/drill/lathe combo looks like a great way to explore basic machining without going whole hog machine shop, or buying those not very good almost toy grade contraptions.

Starting a new topic is most times much better than digging up an ancient 5 or 6 page topic because very few folks are going to go back and read 6 pages on most subjects that are old topics, heck very few folks will even bother go back and read that much on a new topic they have just come across!. A new topic still has current followers (or an old one did back at the time) who are keeping it going but an ancient thread may not even be remembered by some who posted in it! So yeah you can post a reply to an old one like that but 99 times out of a hundred it does not renew the old discussion and it simply fades back into cyber-limbo in a day or so thus few folks even see any added info so why bother, unlike a new topic that is being read from the start. Besides no one told you or anyone else NOT to post to an old thread we simply asked that you acknowledge that it's old so others will notice before wasting time posting what may very well be an irrelevant reply, this DOES happen and happens quite often when old threads reappear.

And yes sometimes a reply does sound "silly" when someone unknowingly replies to a 5 or 6 year old question as if it had been asked that day, it happens a lot when old threads are dug up.

I think the funniest one I have see happened on a machine shop forum some time back (coincidence with that considering this thread topic!) when a newbie dug up an old thread and another member posted a rather detailed answer to the OP's question not even realizing that HE WAS the guy who asked the question, LOL! He had long since solved his problem and was by now very familiar with it but because someone dug up an ancient thread he spent time telling himself how to fix something!

So go ahead and post to old threads if you like, no is telling you not to nor has anyone told you not to, but very likely few folks will see your reply since the thread will in all likelihood get buried immediately by new postings of other subjects, unlike starting a new topic.

[MrWolf]

Any thread that has a recent posting to it shows up as unread for me. If I like the topic I will go and read the prior posts. Good luck.

[john.k]

If someone asks a question thats been asked before.....its "why dont you check the archive before bothering us"........when they do this its"resurrecting an ancient thread." Is three years really forever,is 2015 really ancient?

[oldred]

If someone asks a question thats been asked before.....its "why dont you check the archive before bothering us"........when they do this its"resurrecting an ancient thread." Is three years really forever,is 2015 really ancient?

Telling someone who has asked a (common) question to "do a search" has nothing to do with digging up old threads, they are telling them the question is common and has already been answered many times so he does not have to post the question.

The problem with old threads is, for example, (and there are MANY other examples!) someone asks, I want to buy a xxxxx and then after someone else digs up the old thread someone else says I found one for you on Craigslist -THREE years later.

That's the type of thing that happens, and it happens often, when old threads are dug up without pointing out the fact, such as the example of the guy on the machine shop forum posting a detailed reply to HIMSELF because he missed the fact the thread was ancient, that really did happen! And for what? Sure you can sometimes add info to an old post but few will see it because old posts that have been dug up almost always die quickly for the same reason it went away in the first place, the subject had by been covered from about every angle at the time!

This one is still here because it got sidetracked onto a different subject but once again, NO ONE is telling anyone not to dig up old posts, sometimes something of special interest can be added and rarely an old post can even revive discussion, but please, just acknowledge it is old so we aren't, for example, telling the OP who may not even still be here where he can find that widget he was hunting for 5 or 6 years ago!:roll:

[alamogunr]

I'm sure I have missed something about the "Search" function. Whenever I use it, the answers returned may start out with threads that are 5+ years old. If I am looking for a recent thread, it may be 4-5 pages into the search results. I can't blame anyone for not checking that far down.

[oldred]

I'm sure I have missed something about the "Search" function. Whenever I use it, the answers returned may start out with threads that are 5+ years old. If I am looking for a recent thread, it may be 4-5 pages into the search results. I can't blame anyone for not checking that far down.


Just because a person finds an old thread doesn't mean replying to it as if it was recent is a good idea, it very well may be but it depends entirely on the circumstance and even then just point out that it is old! If someone tries to help someone else solve a problem they were confronted with 5 years ago then I suppose it won't cause anyone any harm but what good does it do?

For the umpteenth time NO ONE is telling anyone NOT to reply to old threads, just don't dig them up and post as if they had just been started without acknowledging they are old! This most times just results in irrelevant (and sometimes even silly cases such as the guy replying to himself) replies to what by then is a dead subject by someone else who inadvertently takes the time to reply because they didn't realize the thread was from long ago.

[john.k]

The first thing a hobby machinist needs to learn is how to keep swarf well away from the domestic situation.

[EDG]

Start out by taking a vocational machine shop program at a comunity college. After learning to run the equipment a little you will know much more about what you can do with it.
Machining for me is not something I would call a hobby.
It is more like driving. It is a way to get where you want to go.
When you have an idea you can make it real.

[Clark]

Since this thread started, youtube has exploded with machinist videos.
It really helps me fall asleep to watch some giant transmission shaft get cut to within 0.001" at the bearing journal.