Be careful of FAKE SSR's not UL rated and they don't hold up

[benellinut]

There are fake SSR's out there that are not UL rated, here's an ebay listing for a PDI package that includes a thermocouple and a fake SSR, be careful of what your buying.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261286976034?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Here's a link with details and good photos showing what to look for.
http://canada.ul.com/safetyalerts/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/

[Beagle333]

So the "Taiwan made" one is the real deal. I woulda fell for it. $52 for a complete package is hard to resist. Thanks for the heads up!!! :grin:

[ohland]

ebay listing... fake SSR, be careful of what your buying.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261286976034?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
/ (http://canada.ul.com/safetyalerts/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/)

I love all caps. Shows me the seller really cares... snif! holding back the tears...

"Note that the Model SSR-25 DA relay with the counterfeit UL Mark is similar to Model SSR-25 DA that is authorized to bear the UL Mark.

The relay that is authorized to bear the UL Mark is marked “Rated: 25A max.” and “Taiwan Made” on the label, these markings do not appear on the counterfeit product.

In addition, the lower right corner of the label recess area is beveled on the relay that is authorized to bear the UL Mark and all corners of the label recess are squared on the counterfeit product."

Just because this one example was caught, does not mean that some smart scammer can't come up with a better sticker... Looking forward to the TPP with asia so all these fake products will be taken off the market...

Let's be careful out there...

[benellinut]

Well to be fair, the seller may not know he's selling fakes, I'm going to send him a message with a heads up.

[texassako]

When I was researching PID parts a while back I came across this tear down of a fake Fotek SSR: http://www.instructables.com/id/The-inner-workings-of-Counterfeit-FOTEK-SSRs/ . There is another tear down in the comments now and quite a few others if you search with all sorts of issues.

[ohland]

When I was researching PID parts a while back I came across this tear down of a fake Fotek SSR: http://www.instructables.com/id/The-inner-workings-of-Counterfeit-FOTEK-SSRs/ . There is another tear down in the comments now and quite a few others if you search with all sorts of issues.

Real Fotek site in English:
http://www.photosensor.com.tw/ ?

Unfortunately, all links are in Taiwanese, and I cannot find anything...

[bangerjim]

UL approval is only necessary if you are using it in a regulated area that requires registered products for insurance & liability purposes. It means the manufacturer just paid 10's of thousands of dollars and waited possibly years for the "lab" to pass "their" tests and approve their product. Same with FM (factory mutual) and CSA (Canadian standards association) approvals. Having those approvals does NOT mean the stuff does NOT work. Far from it! It just means the manufacturer will sell it for a whole lot less because he has not spend copious amounts of time and money getting a certification from the "lab".

Why do you think so many products now run on "wall Wart" transformers? Because they only need approvals on the TRANSFORMER that outside the box. That allows them to change anything and everything IN the box without going thru the gauntlet of re-approval. Years ago, EVERYTHING has internal transformers and power supplies. Not any more!

I doubt if any of our casting shacks stack up to those needed qualifications! Especially when everybody is buying all this cheeeeep PID carp from Asia,

If it works...............IT WORKS. UL means nothing to the normal person.

banger

[benellinut]

IF it works LoL

[benellinut]

I love all caps. Shows me the seller really cares... snif! holding back the tears...

"Note that the Model SSR-25 DA relay with the counterfeit UL Mark is similar to Model SSR-25 DA that is authorized to bear the UL Mark.

The relay that is authorized to bear the UL Mark is marked “Rated: 25A max.” and “Taiwan Made” on the label, these markings do not appear on the counterfeit product.

In addition, the lower right corner of the label recess area is beveled on the relay that is authorized to bear the UL Mark and all corners of the label recess are squared on the counterfeit product."

Just because this one example was caught, does not mean that some smart scammer can't come up with a better sticker... Looking forward to the TPP with asia so all these fake products will be taken off the market...

Let's be careful out there...

I sent the seller a message with a heads up with the link on how to spot the fakes. He replied, he wasn't appreciative of my heads up, said he's sold over 5K of those. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/facepalm.gif

[GSM]

From the listing: "THESE ARE STILL WARM WHEN THEY GO IN THE BOX OFF THE TEST BENCH"

Hmmmmm. Might be a clue.

[benellinut]

When I was researching PID parts a while back I came across this tear down of a fake Fotek SSR: http://www.instructables.com/id/The-inner-workings-of-Counterfeit-FOTEK-SSRs/ . There is another tear down in the comments now and quite a few others if you search with all sorts of issues.

Interesting read;
The 25 Amp SSR was manufactured with a BTA12-400C TRIAC. I did a quick online search and discovered that the part is rated at a continuous load of 12 Amps and a non-repetitive load of 126 Amps. In other words, the TRIAC used in the 25 Amp SSR is only rated for 12 Amps! Here's my BTA12-400C Google search (https://www.google.com/#q=BTA12-400C)
The 40 Amp SSR was manufactured with a BTA20-600C TRIAC. I did a quick online search and discovered that the part is rated at a continuous load of 20 Amps and a non-repetitive load of 200 Amps. In other words, the TRIAC used in the 40 Amp SSR is only rated for 20 Amps! Here's my BTA20-600C Google search (https://www.google.com/#q=BTA20-600C)
I did a third search on FOTEK SSR counterfeit (https://www.google.com/#q=fotek+ssr+counterfeit) and discovered This Article (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52-242919311.html)as well as hundreds of forum conversations claiming counterfeit. And even though some of the counterfeit claims are likely failures caused by improper installation, apparently counterfeit SSRs are quite a problem! My next question was - are there even legitimate FOTEK SSRs out there? Yes there are and here is their Web Site (http://www.fotek.com.tw/Ecenter1.asp?class1_sn=4&class2_sn=16). And BTW, I'm not just picking on FOTEK or Amazon.com. If you decide to buy any brand SSR from any online supplier including Amazon, eBay or "Joe's SSR Shop" not licensed to sell the product you are basically making a "shot in the dark" purchase.

[dikman]

As we use 230v here, my pots are only drawing about 4-5 amps, so even if I had an "under-rated" SSR it should still work fine. You'll only run into a possible problem if you max out the current draw. It's a pretty safe bet that many of us could have these without knowing it, but as bj said, as long as they're working what does it matter.

[benellinut]

Having one fail isn't a big deal either, having one cause a fire is another story.

[bhn22]

I feel bad. All I can summon up is a big lazy yawn. So the Chinese are knocking each other off? Nobody cares when they do it to us. I don't see anything that leads me to believe that my PID would go up in a ball of flame if I had one of these SSRs, which I don't.

[benellinut]

Sigh, read the links. Some of these are failing and staying ON. What would an oven do it you have a relay stick ON while baking your coated bullets? How many people turn on the PDI and oven and walk away from it? No big deal? OK LoL.

[blikseme300]

Luckily SSR's fail open circuit or we would have lawyers all over this due to fires etc. I prefer to buy my SSR's and any other electronic parts from US distributors as I have a better chance to get a warranty replacement or tech support. Both of these services cost and it is reflected in the price. There is a fine line between cheap and economical so makes your choices.

[NavyVet1959]

So, someone is basically buying the lower amperage models, changing the labels, and selling them as higher amperage models. I'm glad I went with the 40A model then. I guess I now need to go check to see if I lucked out and got a real one or a relabeled one... :(

[Springfield]

My first 2 25 amp SSR's failed within a years use, so I went with a 40 amp even though I was told here it was overkill. 4 years later it still works. Sometimes overkill is good. I'm gong to check the labels on mine just for fun, though.

[Beagle333]

Mine's the real McCoy.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PID/pid005_zpsf09a5461.jpg

[Beagle333]

And this is a fake one, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/For-PID-Temperature-Controller-Output-24V-380V-25A-SSR-25-DA-Solid-State-Relay-/371332769913?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item5675286879

[Elkins45]

So the "Taiwan made" one is the real deal. I woulda fell for it. $52 for a complete package is hard to resist. Thanks for the heads up!!! :grin:

I DID fall for it. That's the guy I bought mine from.

[benellinut]

Luckily SSR's fail open circuit or we would have lawyers all over this due to fires etc. I prefer to buy my SSR's and any other electronic parts from US distributors as I have a better chance to get a warranty replacement or tech support. Both of these services cost and it is reflected in the price. There is a fine line between cheap and economical so makes your choices.

It appears some are failing closed, well most likely shorted which is closing the circuit which is not good and there lies the danger.

[benellinut]

So, someone is basically buying the lower amperage models, changing the labels, and selling them as higher amperage models. I'm glad I went with the 40A model then. I guess I now need to go check to see if I lucked out and got a real one or a relabeled one... :(

Some are not relabeled, if you look at the pics of the real and fake on this link you'll see there the lower right corner of the label is not square where as the fake has four square corners. You can also see the fonts of the letters are not a match.
http://canada.ul.com/safetyalerts/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/

[benellinut]

And this is a fake one, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/For-PID-Temperature-Controller-Output-24V-380V-25A-SSR-25-DA-Solid-State-Relay-/371332769913?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item5675286879

Going by the photos of the fake in this link that guy is selling a fake.
http://canada.ul.com/safetyalerts/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/

[retread]

Me too! Like you said, "overkill can be good".

[benellinut]

Last month I bought mine off amazon at this listing http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A161UCK You'll see the photos show the fake SSR but I guess I got lucky because the one they sent me is the real deal and has the correct fonts and the notched corner in the lower right. That doesn't mean if I ordered another that I wouldn't get a fake the next time, or it could be, all the sell is the real deal and they are unknowingly using stock photos that happen to be of a fake. But for $5 shipped, if I got ripped it wouldn't be breaking the bank, it did take almost two weeks to get here.

Also notice the locations of the CE and RUus on the labels of the fakes and the real relays
here --> http://canada.ul.com/safetyalerts/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/

[bangerjim]

This is precisely why I sell and use only KNOWN industrial brands in my company! They cost 5-7x more than that junk, but last almost forever. Most things I sell carry a 1, 2, 5, or 10 year warranty.

I totally ignore ebay and all the scammers on there!

Ebay = buyer beware.

bangerjim

[kalison]

This sucks. I will have to open up my enclosure and check.

[NavyVet1959]

Just looked at my 40A one and it appears to be a fake since it looks a lot more like the fake one than the real one in the previous external link.

[Handloader109]

I've bought and using one off ebay also. It works, I'm not opening up my box to determine if label is "fake" or not. Label is a label. Even a high dollar electronic part can fail. They do it all the time. Guys get a grip, go cast some lead..... And for safety, unplug your pot when you are done. I Never leave this gear plugged up when I might not use for a week or three. I don't trust some of the switches and they are not where I or family passes by often. Same goes for my toaster........ Oh, most of these guys are reusing someone else's pictures,so you really can't depend on pics.

[benellinut]

"Get a grip" now there's something I haven't heard since the 60's LoL

[ohland]

not opening up my box to determine if label is "fake" or not. And for safety, unplug your pot when you are done. Never leave this gear plugged up .... Oh, most of these guys are reusing someone else's pictures,so you really can't depend on pics.

Well, looking at a label vs cutting open the SSR is two different things. How long is it going to be before the scammers start making controllers with severely under rated parts? Heck, the Red Chinese scammers have been churning out fake hologram stickers on software for years... Possible same factory that OEMs for the manufacturer is moonlighting and making cheap knock-offs... Like this has never happened... Or a factory makes samples from specs and chooses to oopsie, crank out a few hundred thousand knock offs... Got to love that Red Chinese business law...

Totally agree on unplugging the pot.

Yes, reuse happens, which makes detecting scammers harder.


FWIW, I might do a concept build for myself with odd parts, but if I was selling out the door to customers, I'd like some assurance the parts are real. Even if the TPP passes, do you think that the Red Chinese government will eliminate all counterfiting? So one of the happy customers down the road gets that $52 PID... made by scammers. It burns up.

Who will they sue? The (unknown) Red Chinese scammers? Or the schlub on fleabay with unknown parts...

[AggieEE]

From a repair aspect I've had a lot of trouble with chinese made transistors. And yes SSR's can and do fail "closed". The output , contacts, of the relay is just a TRIAC and they do short out. If you are worried about the SSR buy a replacement from a US supplier. Newark, Digikey are two that comes to mind right now. Get a little tube of heatsink compound goop the metal plate on the back and firmly tighten the mounting screw connect the wires and you're good to go.

[Elkins45]

It's a counterfeit part, not a fake one...after all, it really is an SSR. It just may not be a very good one, or it may be exatctly the same part made on the same machines but sold without the manufacturer who contracted for it getting their cut. For all we know it might have come from the same Taiwanese factory as the 'real' one.

If mine fails then I will buy a better one from Grainger. Or, honestly, I may just go back to using the built in control. To be frank I haven't found my PID to have made all that much of a difference in the quality of my bullets.

[NavyVet1959]

For all we know it might have come from the same Taiwanese factory as the 'real' one.

These days, it's more a case of the same *Chinese* factory as the one with the "Made in Taiwan" label. Even Taiwan manufacturers are opening up factories in China to take advantage of the cheaper labor. It's not a question of *where* it's made, but what sort of quality control the company that subcontracts it out to a foreign country has.