38 SP Brass Problem?

[JesterGrin_1]

I purchased a good supply of Fed brass awhile back that looked great. But I have loaded a few hundred of them with HP-38. I went to shoot some of them and I had a few that the case split length wise. The primers were fine as in not showing any pressure signs as I did not load them to max.

I am pretty sure I know the answer to my question but thought I would ask anyway lol. So should I take down the other rounds I loaded and toss all of the brass or just use them up and toss the brass that splits?

I am shooting them from a Ruger Security Six Stainless .357 Magnum just as an FYI.

Thank You.

[dubber123]

Back in the day I would shoot anything in my old M10 S&W that would chamber, real junk brass. I got a lot of splits, some full length. I have never noticed it doing any damage to that gun at all. I would just toss them as they expire.

[revolvergeek]

I have had a number of Federal .38 spl split on me like that with moderate loads.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok Thank You. I thought it was very odd for 38 SP.

Especially since I have not had these problems with Win or Rem brass even with High end loads in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum.

[revolvergeek]

Almost unheard of; .38 spl brass normally lasts forever.

[ReloaderFred]

I shot over 500 rounds of .38 Special through revolvers and rifles this weekend at a large match, and had about 20 to 30 of them give up the ghost. My wife fired another 500+ rounds through her guns, too.

I have no idea how many times they've been loaded, since the two of us go through about 8,000+ rounds of it per year, and there's no way I'm going to try to keep track of how many times a particular case has been reloaded. The brass gets brittle from work hardening, plain and simple. It causes no harm to the firearm, either. If it did, the chambers would be toast at the mouth of the case after just a few firings..........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Scharfschuetze]

I've always had good results when using Federal brass, particularly 38 Special brass. Back in the 70s I bought a thousand Federal 38 cases for my PPC addiction during my LE days. I'm still using most of those cases some 40 years later. I do admit to annealing them from time to time, but I can honestly say I got my money's worth out of them.

I can only guess that the particular lot of brass that you have was not annealed properly before leaving the factory. The 38 Special cases that I generally see with lengthwise splits have generally been nickel plated cases.

[StrawHat]

When I shot PPC, I bought several 5 gallon pails of nickel plated brass. Been reloading those for about 3 decades. As they split, I toss them. Standard recipe, 2.7 and 148 grains.

Kevin

[Petrol & Powder]

Just shoot them and discard the ones that fail. 38 Special cases do last a long time but eventually the case mouth gets work hardened from the repeated belling/crimping/firing cycle and they split.

[44man]

Usually age, not how many times loaded. Brass is funny and does better when used then just sitting around.

[bangerjim]

Were they "once fired" brass from the peddler you bought them from? Doubt it. :D

I use Fed, Rem, Win, even Aguilla brass almost forever and I have never had even one split or crack. That is with NORMAL loads. Thru several brands of 38/357 arms. No splits.

If they were used, the reloader that used them could have belled the heck out of them and stressed the brass to the point of cracking. Or shot them in a non-standard chambered gun that stretched the brass so many times that it work hardened.

Nickel-plated will do what your are describing over time.

Those are my guesstimates. Scrap the ones that split. 38 brass is dirt cheap.

[bedbugbilly]

All I buy is "range brass" and hopefully it's 1 X fired but who really knows? All mixed headstamps. Usually, while I have a good "stash" of it, I find myself just recycling around 300 casings and I really don't keep track of how often they have been loaded. I think in total, I've probably culled out maybe a dozen or so over a period of time - I'm talking brass.

I came by some nickel 38 casings - they do look "pretty". I had no splits with smokeless - I usually use milder BE or RD for plinking. I decided to keep the nickel to load with BP so I would know what was what even though I label containers of loaded cartridges well. When I was loading smokeless in the nickel - I maybe had one or two that I had to cull out after numerous reloading - primarily a short neck split. I purchased some mixed 1 X fired nickel casings - mixed headstamps - and I had to cull a number of them after only several BP reloads due to split necks. I always de-prime well and wash in soapy water and rinse as soon as I get home from shooting. I know a lot don't like nickel casings - I used to really like it but have found myself only using brass now - and I seem to have very few splits in either smokeless or BP. Go figure . . .

[JesterGrin_1]

These are all Brass. And of course they were range pick up. And I purchased them from someone here that sold probably thousands of them.

I will not bring up his handle on the forum as I personally do not feel that he sold bad brass knowingly. For myself Knowingly is the key word or to say I choose to believe this. As he took way too much time it appears to make them look pretty. :). Plus many others have been happy with there purchase.

But I did learn a lesson and that is next time I will probably just purchase new brass from Starline. :) And I may still do the same by not loading anymore of this brass and just going with new.

[bangerjim]

I use a lot of Starline in my 45LC's....excellent product. That way I REALLY know my once fired are once fired....by me!

I would presume their 38's are of similar quality.

Take your splits to a scrap yard and get a good price for your brass. Depends on your area as to what you will get. Around here, they SELL brass casings for $3/#.

banger

[OuchHot!]

It is possible that someone wanted to make the used brass look really nice and used Brasso or one of the other ammonia containing polishes in their tumble media.

[bangerjim]

Oh......................Brasso and pistol brass.....................don't ya just luuuuuuuuuuuuv it!

[RogerDat]

One buys "used" and one takes ones chances. Seems to me that range p/u brass has this unknown quality/age factored into the price. If some cases split I guess you can't load those anymore, if the rest are OK you figure your cost based on what you have left and how many total rounds one gets to fire for the cost of the used brass. One can buy new and if one is easy on brass, maybe anneals once in awhile the cost per round might be better, or new might still be much more expensive for the number of rounds you get per dollar paid.


The used price vs. new all depends on what kind of deal you got on used brass vs. the cost of new.

[bangerjim]

Starline has in-stock right now 38SPL brass for around 15¢ a piece INCLUDING shipping.

[RogerDat]

Starline has in-stock right now 38SPL brass for around 15¢ a piece INCLUDING shipping.
And S&S forum has 2000 @ 10 cents each shipped. Mixed head stamp claimed once fired. I picked up 200 for $13 not too long ago, that is down around 6 cents each. I know if I get a bunch of case splits in that 200 I purchased it would feel like less of a good deal. Even though realistically if 10 split and I got good use from the other 190 I would be doing pretty good on cost. If none split then I did really well.

No universal right answer between $150 for 1000 new or $200 for 2000 used.
Good deal is all about what or where you personally place the value of new vs used. Known good vs some variations or losses due to scrap.

[Eddie17]

Go to my clubs every other day. Non reloaders will leave used straight wall brass and the original box on the shooting table for you to pick up.
Just need to be early!
38 all the time, next 45 colt, 357 and 44 not so much.
Ed

[bangerjim]

I rarely EVER find 38's or 357's at the range. Even rarer are 45LC!!!!! That is why I buy Starline new brass. I do NOT leave a single one of my cases behind!

Tons of 9mm, 40S&W, 223/5.56....for the picking. Don't need any more of any of those!!!!!!

[Petrol & Powder]

I always lose a few casings from a semi-auto but I can usually recover most of my revolver brass.
One of the reasons I love revolvers!

Funny thing is that although I lose a few more semi-auto casings from time to time, I also tend to find more that other people leave. It's sort of a gun range Karma thing!

[JesterGrin_1]

None of the Ranges that I know of here in San Antonio allow you to pick up any brass unless it belongs to you. And you are not even allowed to ask someone else if they are going to keep there brass. If you are caught you can no longer go to that range as it is taking what was it again oh yes food out of there mouth lol.

One range even has grates that one stands on and what brass falls through the grates is theirs. That is why some bring drop cloths to put over the grates while they shoot to keep there brass or at least as much as they can.

Yes it is a bunch of BS.

[RogerDat]

None of the Ranges that I know of here in San Antonio allow you to pick up any brass unless it belongs to you. And you are not even allowed to ask someone else if they are going to keep there brass. If you are caught you can no longer go to that range as it is taking what was it again oh yes food out of there mouth lol.

One range even has grates that one stands on and what brass falls through the grates is theirs. That is why some bring drop cloths to put over the grates while they shoot to keep there brass or at least as much as they can.

Yes it is a bunch of BS.

That thing with the grates is just wrong. Need to charge more if they are going to starve without my brass.

[fivegunner]

I have a few .32H&R mag handguns, one of my gun shops went out of business, had 10 or so box`s of fed 32H&R on sale I bought them all , every one of the case`s split the first time I fired them. so I bought a thousand from starLine and have not had any split. [smilie=2::grin:

[rintinglen]

I've always had good results when using Federal brass, particularly 38 Special brass. Back in the 70s I bought a thousand Federal 38 cases for my PPC addiction during my LE days. I'm still using most of those cases some 40 years later. I do admit to annealing them from time to time, but I can honestly say I got my money's worth out of them.

I can only guess that the particular lot of brass that you have was not annealed properly before leaving the factory. The 38 Special cases that I generally see with lengthwise splits have generally been nickel plated cases.

That, my friends, is an excellent guess!

Twice I have bought new brass that had this flaw. The first was Speer 38 Special casings. Brand spanking new, never loaded, over 50% split on first firing. I bought a box of 500 Starline 9mm Largo that was nearly as bad. Yet I have some 38 brass from the 60's that has been reloaded lord only knows how many times that I still use.

[Virginia John]

If you are going to buy brass, buy Starline or Speer. Steer away from Federal and Winchester. The individual brass they sell is not the same brass they load and even that brass isn't that good.

[JesterGrin_1]

What prompted me to ask these questions will be funny to many. But I have never had this problem in the past and thus I was worried about hurting my firearms and or myself or others. But I am glad to hear that everything will be fine except for loss of brass. But at this point I could care less and just bite the bullet so they say and order some Starline .38SP brass when I can.

Thanks to all once again. :)

[ReloaderFred]

When a manufacturer makes brass, it all comes off the same line, whether they're going to load it themselves or sell the surplus off as components. It's not economical to have two manufacturing lines for the same product, especially at the cost of additional manufacturing equipment and labor. And that doesn't take into account how uneconomical it would be to have to order and stock two different alloys of brass.......

Major manufacturers make their brass for one loading, the one they put in their box and ship off to the distributors, who then ship it to the retailers. They're not concerned for the most part about that brass being reloadable, with a few exceptions. When you buy once fired brass, you're buying recycled material, plain and simple, since it's served it's primary function successfully, which was to be fired the first time.

As reloaders, we get all hung up on how many loads we can get out of brass that was only intended to be fired one time by the maker. Anything after that is gravy, unless you're buying virgin brass from a manufacturer who specializes in that part of the trade. I've purchased brass that was intended for reloaders and wasn't able to get even one loading out of some of it, and the remainder failed on the first firing (Bertram .45 Basic 3.25" brass). For that product, at nearly $3.00 per case, I was upset. On the other hand, when I get additional reloadings from factory brass that has been fired once, then I'm a happy camper.

Hope this helps.

Fred