Martini 577/450 shooters ?

[FrankG]

In the process of getting a Martini 577/450 MKIV and am looking for info of what most of you are feeding these rifles . I see dies are obtainable and 24 gauge brass is used for reforming for cases .
Just curious as to loading preferences for them . Ive never paper patched so that will be new for me if I have to up size .458 to a larger size .

Thanks in advance :D

[Von Gruff]

There are 577-450 specific moulds available to set the need for PP aside if desired Frank.

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/577-450-martini-henry

[FrankG]

Now that sounds like a plan .

[Hooker53]

Frank. That remains to be seen on your part if you have not abtained a Henry and slugged the barrel. That's the first thing you want to do. I have two of them and both are diff land and groove sizes. My MkIV shoots a PP at 472. The other is smaller. PP is not that hrd to do and some of these old barrels like that better then a casted Boolit that's not PP because of a little roughness that might be in there.

Roy
Hooker53

[Buckshot]

...............I too have a Martini-Henry MkIV 577-450. It wants patched slugs @ .472". My favorite 'plinking' load is the Lee 405gr slug as cast and then patched with 16 lb bond. I use 38.0 grs IMR3031 with a dacron wad. Velocity runs right at 1250 fps.

http://www.fototime.com/0FDEA25C2215222/standard.jpg

This is 60 of'em loaded up. I used to shoot it in our club's silhuette matches just for fun. No problem fetching the 200 meter ram with a hit.

The British & Militaria board ran a few group buys several years ago through Lee for slugs for the various Martini marks.

http://www.fototime.com/FC2767F928DB332/standard.jpg

This slug was supposed to be for the MkIV but drops from my copy of the mould at .470". I hear you can also use the Lee moulds for the 480 Ruger. They're supposed to drop at .476" and reports are that they shoot well. I've never cast any up yet to try myself.

http://www.fototime.com/9DC03C642E41F6B/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/B160E910F6E0995/standard.jpg

I have this Martini sporter, also in 577-450.

http://www.fototime.com/23A942A3998B584/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9109FBD2EB448DC/standard.jpg
It has a fairly heavy walled barrel with ratchet type rifling having 7 lands. I do have a "V" anvil micrometer but I've never gotten around to trying to slug it. I simply shot the above cast lead GG boolits (.470"). The heavier the load, the better they shot. I was using H4895.

http://www.fototime.com/B1B7E53F8AE2ECF/standard.jpg

I did slug the barrel but at the time I did NOT have the 'V' anvil mic and I could never get a consistent reading. Slug on the left is the group buy .470" and on the right is the 500gr Lee, sans GC.

http://www.fototime.com/878978C4327FE50/standard.jpg

This was the first and only time I'd shot the sporter. I'd loaded 4 loads of 5 rounds each. Unweighed slugs and thrown charges. This was the heaviest @ 47grs.

http://www.fototime.com/84C2840C23E9FD2/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/B36421DF639D5DF/standard.jpg
I also have a chamber converter for the 577-450 that allows you to shoot 45 Colt cartridges in the rifle. It's a statement to the versatility of the Henry rifling that you can shoot a grossly undersized (.454") lead slug through the barrel and get 3" groups at 50 yards with it! I call it "The Big Burp", as that's what it sounds like when you fire it.

I have 80 rounds of Bertram brass, and have not lost a single case to date. A couple batches of 20 have over 30 firings apiece. I used to anneal every 2nd firing. Then I tried firing one case 5 times without issue, so now I anneal after the 5th firing.

................Buckshot

[rollmyown]

Buckshot, I think your group is pretty much "F" class size for one of these old girls. How severe is the leading using the chamber adapter with the undersized boolits?

[acmech]

I cut my own mold using the CBE design as my model. I cast a .472 bullet I size down to .470 which weighs 480 grains and the accuracy is great from the MKIV and MKII I've shot them in. Its also just wheel weight lead. I've used 2F KIK powder and 1F kik. With 85 grains of 1F the average velocity is 1150, with 85 grains of 2F my velocity is a bit higher at 1208 fps. With the 1F powder the max velocity deviation between 4 shots was 50 fps and the max deviation with 2F was 37 fps. I also get excellent accuracy from 75 grains of Pyrodex RS. If you consider pyrodex, remember it is as corrosive as blackpowder and Hodgdon recommends soaking the cases in a solution of vinegar and water to neutralize the residue. Another thing I did recently is open up the neck of my sizing die on the lathe so its not so hard on the cases. There is no need to size them down to fit a .458 bullet when I'm shooting .470's. I think lee needs to look at that. If you get a second sizing die and have it opened up so you can form your cases in two steps, it'll make life a LOT easier. As already suggested, I highly recommend slugging your barrel. I have 2 MKIV's and 1 MKII and they all slug the same but yours may be different. Just remember, that due to the Henry rifling, you need to rotate the the slug between the jaws of a normal caliper to get the proper dimension. If you don't rotate the slug, it'll read quite a bit smaller.

Here is a video where I put a 1910 Ross rifle sight on my MKII. If you skip to the 17 minute portion of the video you will see the accuracy I can get with the bullets and 75 grains of Pyrodex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtx8g2co5-k


This is a video showing why Hodgdon wants you to use vinegar when using Pyrodex. Pyrodex is really nasty stuff if you don't do a good job cleaning it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rdlI_Qct-M

[curator]

FrankG,

I have a couple of Martini-Henry models which I shoot using 24 gauge CBC brass converted to 577-450. For nearly full power loads I paper patch 450 grain slugs that were made for my .45-70, ending up with .472 diameter. These shoot great but at 1350 fps, the recoil gets to be a bit much. For lighter target loads I use the Lee 475/400RF flat nose slug and 22 to 25 grains of SR4759 plus dacron filler. These shoot great with about half the recoil. I did a chamber & throat cast using Cerosafe alloy some time back and found that all my Martini Henrys have a very long tapered throat that begins right at the end of the cartridge case mouth. This "throat" slowly transitions to bore diameter in about 6 inches. I believe this was designed to accommodate fouling from black powder. Because of this I have found that bullets as large as .485" will usually shoot more accurately than those of bore diameter. The Lee .475 mould I have drops slugs right around .482" diameter using a 40 to 1 lead tin alloy. I lube with LLA and simply thumb seat these into unsized brass. Cases last nearly forever since I am not resizing them. I get zero leading and good target accuracy without getting beat up by recoil.

[FrankG]

Great info fellas ! Hoping to have a Martini here by first part of next week .

Any Black I shoot will be Goex Ctg most likely as I had good luck with it in my 45-110 and 45-70 with Fed 215 primer. I gave up on Pyrodex a long time ago when it wouldnt light off in flintlocks .

[Ballistics in Scotland]

In the process of getting a Martini 577/450 MKIV and am looking for info of what most of you are feeding these rifles . I see dies are obtainable and 24 gauge brass is used for reforming for cases .
Just curious as to loading preferences for them . Ive never paper patched so that will be new for me if I have to up size .458 to a larger size .

Thanks in advance :D

They are right that there is no substitute for slugging the bore, as there is quite a bit of variation. I think success (and for a pistol adapter in a rifle that is success) depends on soft bullets and a high initial pressure to expand them.

If you are planning on full power long range loads, even with black powder, it would be worth shelling out for Bertram solid .577/.450 cases. People do report that Magtech shotgun cases tend to split at the rim under high pressure. They may be fine with lighter loads (experience, anyone?), and in the nineteenth century greater accuracy was reported with the lighter carbine load anyway. You can use any space you save with a moderately light black powder charge, with a wax or grease cookie between card discs behind the bullet. Make sure the disc between wax and lead is a good fit, or the stuff may adhere irregularly to the bullet.

We see a lot of queries about the feasibility of patching cast bullets up to a certain diameter. Yours isn't going to give you a lead-cored paper bullet like some. It could be done. But .012in. total of paper is going to impose quite a risk of placing the bullet's centre of mass off the bore centre, which will make for inaccuracy. Remember, too, that if the bullet under its overcoat is grooved, that increases the chances of its ending up crooked going down the bore. I think you would find the mould you need from http://www.neihandtools.com/ . They are expensive now, but will be providing good bullets when money with the same numbers on will buy you a new pair of socks. My preference would be for a base pour mould, since it can have a true round nose. But that is just me, for the long taper and small flat illustrated here will be as good or better aerodynamically.

[bigbore52]

Welcome (pending at least) to the Martini Henry experience....it's addictive :)

Just a suggestion on slugging your bore which you might find easier. The shape the slug comes out does make it difficult to measure accurately so here's one method of how I do it at least.

You will need a decent micrometer for a start and an aluminium can - preferably a decent ale :) slug your bore as you normally would and here I would also recommend doing a chamber cast while you are at it.

Make two slug measurements, one from the throat end and the other from the muzzle end - by that I mean in doing the muzzle end push the slug about halfway down the bore from the muzzle and then drive it back out from the other - equally drive another slug in from the throat passed the leed so you cover the rifle from two ends then push it back out the throat from the muzzle end thus getting two separate measurements at each end of the bore. In my opinion if you only take the one slug and drive it all the way through will give you the minimum bore size you are after but not where it occurs...taking the two helps you understand the rifle a bit better in my view.....it's just a suggestion but the one slug pushed right through will get the measurement you are after

When you have the slugs out cut a strip of the aluminium can about the width of the cast slug and wrap it around each slug once. Pinch the sides of the aluminium strip with some lock clamp to squeeze it real tight but not tight enough to deform them or squash the slugs - you should not see any air gaps under the strip and using lock clamps allows you to maintain the hold while you get to measuring

Measure the overall diameter of each slug while wrapped in the aluminium while the clamp holds it tight in place. Take the aluminium strip off the slug and measure the thickness of the aluminium which you then subtract twice from the overall measurement taken before.

Gives a pretty accurate method of the slug diameter as it smooths out the peaks and troughs cut by the rifling which can be difficult to accurately measure otherwise - that will give you a starting reference

At the same time your chamber cast will let you know what's going on before the rifling starts and that second slug measurement at the throat end lets you know how the pill will sit before it enters the leed. That is needed when you are going for accuracy.

You will find much information on loads for it but having a starting reference for a bore diameter is mandatory....in my experience I have found they generally tend to shoot better when the pill is cast some 2-3 thou over bore size on a 20:1 mix - that's not paper patching as I don't paper patch at all but that's not to deter others, merely the way I load mine - good shooting

Hope that helps.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, I think your group is pretty much "F" class size for one of these old girls. How severe is the leading using the chamber adapter with the undersized boolits?

...............No leading. I first shot some loads (45 Colt) that I had already loaded for my Ruger BH. The slugs were sized .452". Accuracy wasn't exactly wonderful, but I sure wouldn't have wanted to be standing out there at 50 yards with a catchers mitt. The 45 Colt chamber in the 577-450 adaptor proved to be a bit generous as a fired case would accept a .455" boolit. Not having a .455" size die at the time I sized to .454". The Colt cases had the top 1/4" sized and were then expanded to accept and hold a .454" boolit.

http://www.fototime.com/68E891AD4F08210/standard.jpg

I never did try either of the above 45 cal rifle slugs in the adaptor. However they did shoot exceedingly well in my Vaquero, which is a different story. I stick to mid-range Colt loads as the steel neck of the adapter isn't real thick and I didn't want to risk ruining it.

I got my MkIV in the mid-later 90's and it's a long story. The original barrel wasn't much good. After I 'd had it a couple weeks my gunsmith (the guy I bought it from) asked me if I'd like a new barrel? Seems he'd also acquired a case of 12 brand new barrels complete with sights. They were dated 1892. The price was $125 installed on my action (which is what I'd paid for the rifle in the first place). I took advantage of it :-) Later on after buying a Greener action I'd called him about buying another barrel. He told me he'd sold them all to Victoria Trading or some such outfit.

When I got the rifle I'd called RCBS and they wanted $300+ for a set of dies. I ended up buying my dies from CH-4D for $150 something. Upon trying them they sized the neck down sufficiently to hold a .458" slug. By then I'd read enough to know that that was way to small for what the rifle wanted. I called CH-4D about it. They said to send the dies back with 2 fired cases and they'd take care of it for $25 which would also cover return shipping. The 45 Colt adapter came from "The Old Western Scrounger" when they were still here in California. The reason the 45-70 case is in the photo's is because I'd asked abot an adapter to use that. They said if I could figure out a way to do it they'd make them up. Alas and alack the neck of the adapter would almost have to be thin enough so as to be transparent :-)

I also actually did load up 20 rounds with BP. I did most everything wrong, except I knew I didn't want to leave any space between the charge and the boolit. The Bertram cases would hold about 110grs of Goex 2Fg to the bottom of the neck when settled in the case. I stacked some card wads in there and set a Lee 457-450-F slug on top. At the time that was the closest I had to the correct weight. At the range after 2 rounds the whole left side of the rifle was covered in slobber and I was looking for some sucker to fire off the rest of'em. The Martini is NOT a very heavy rifle!. I think I ended up firing 2 more rounds but the other 16 were fired by idiots who didn't know what was up!

There was another guy involved in this Martini deal. His name was Kenny Benson. We was a WW2 vet and had been a bombardier/navigator in B-24's flying out of N. Africa, and later on Italy. He'd somehow hooked up with the guy who'd all all these Martini's, and the guy was trading the stuff to the gunsmith as payment for doing work on some SA Colt's. Seems his uncle had passed away and all this old 'Gun Stuff'. That included a cardboard barrel full of 577-450 Martini's, along with a bunch of 22RF Martini's, complete and boxes of parts. The sporter Martini I have came from him.

In any event, Kenny ended up with a full unopened wooden case of Kynoch 577-450 rifle ammo, that was Berdan primed and loaded with cordite, under the issue type lead RN PP'd slugs. Also a partial case of the 577-450 Carbine ammo. Both type were paper patched with purple paper :-) By then I was pals with Kenny. He had a reloading room built off the back of his garage. It had air conditioning, an linoleum floor, a couch, a refrigerator and a microwave! All his reloading gear was old Hollywood stuff and his press must have weighed as much as my little Ford Fiesta. He'd broken down some of the Kynoch ammo and had a quantity of the cordite powder in a baby food jar. It was pale yellow and if lit it's burn like a fuse. The ammo all had 2 cannelures rolled into the case necks.

Kenny gave me 8 rounds to fire at the range on the condition I'd return the empty cases. He made quite a bit of money selling the ammo in single rounds and also complete boxes. He ended up getting $50 for the empty wooden case the rifle ammo had come in. The ammo he'd given me to fire was carbine ammo with the 420 gr patched slugs. It was all accurate once you got used to the fact that after the firing pin had whacked the primer you had to wait while it sizzled like frying bacon, and then it'd go boom! 8-) All the cases split at the neck, but they were nice and clean looking to begin with. Since the cases had split, he said I could keep them if I wanted to. Kenny also gave me 2 brand new spark plugs for the B-24 Pratt & Whitney engines, and they were still in their cardboard tubes.

Luckily I did keep the cases, as a couple years later I got a 3 band 577 Snider! Short story but one of my shooting pals said he'd convert one of'em into a Snider case, so I gave him a couple. He'd been a front end mechanic for Winston Tire, and then Sears. When I'd given it to him I'd converted them to use a 209 shotshell primer. The next Tuesday at the range he produced the case. He said he used quite a different bunch of tools, including some front end tools, and here it is. Naturally I had no dies, but I'd brought some 58 cal Minie' bullets, primers, lube and a pound of 2Fg BP. I simply filled the case with BP, lubed a slug and set it on top of the powder. You had to hold the rifle pointing straight up because the Minie' would fall out of the case if you tipped it any. I perched my left butt cheek on a bench top, aimed at the 100 yard berm and pulled the trigger. Nothing happened, so I cocked the hammer and squeezed the trigger again. This time it went off and just about rolled me over backwards off the bench!

I couldn't see where it'd hit through the smoke and neither could he, HA! Smart guys that we were, we figured there was too much powder involved, so we improvised. We fired off the balance of the 20 Minie' bullets I had by filling the case about 3/4 full (by Mk1 Mod 1 eyeball detector) and then mashed a wad of newspaper on top and then set the Minie' in place. We couldn't hit the 100 meter berm if we deliberately aimed at it, but we sure had a hilarious good time!

.................Buckshot

[Bigslug]

Anyone know if the .45 Colt chamber converters are still available from anyone? Initial web searches last night seem to indicate otherwise.

I'm thinking the hollow base .455 Webley bullet would be just the thing.

[Buckshot]

.............The "Old WesternScrounger" who had the chamber adaptors sold out to an outfit on the East coast a couple years back. Don't recall if it was Navy Arms or who. Might want to do a search for "Old Western Scrounger" or "Chamber adaptors". Possibly contact Navy Arms? They might know, even if it wasn't them.

................Buckshot

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The Old Western Scrounger certainly does exist, even though they no longer feature that catalogue drawing of a rather worried looking mule in a GI steel helmet. I think it might have been inspired by the experiment of a Lieutenant Chamberlain with a sick mule, in which he found that a solid copper .220 Swift bullet, at a velocity you can't buy any more, caused secondary missiles to pierce the helmet on their way out. Being sick doesn't sound all that bad.

I know because only last week they professed themselves unable to export one of their Parker-Hale Mauser action forgings to me in the UK, although for us, being unthreaded and unfinished, it has the legal status of a paperweight. A gun part being something you can fit into a gun has a superficial air of logic about it. Oh well, terrorists may be finishing off Mauser action castings hand over fist for all I know, but I would have thought not.

http://ows-ammo.com/store/

[BrentD]

FWIW, I had a 577-450 Martini sporting rifle. It was an interesting but frustrating rifle. The biggest issue it had was a hugely tapered bore. I never found a bullet that was big enough to properly fill the throat. When you slug the bore do it from both ends. However, fit your bullet to the breech end.

I would not use that 24 gauge brass. It is too thin in the head and it can come apart. I researched this a bit and decided I wanted no part of that stuff.

[Tom Herman]

[QUOTE=Bigslug;

I'm thinking the hollow base .455 Webley bullet would be just the thing.[/QUOTE]

I think you're on the right track! I have the .455 RCBS mould, and used the .455", 265 grain bullets as a field expedient for my 11.7 x 51mm Danish Remington. Loading the bullets into a .45-70 case over 35 grains 4198, and then dropping the bullets into the case Russian Nagant revolver style worked well for me!
The bullets are essentially smokeless Minie balls... They filled up the Remington's bore fine. From what I understand, the Danish likes to see about a .462/.463 bullet, plus or minus depending on manufacturing tolerances. It should work well for you.
The only detractor is that the bullet has two small (and I mean small!) grease grooves.
Best of Luck! -Tom

[Bigslug]

Tom, If you're of such a mind, you might get in touch with MP Molds. I was a relative newbie to the forum when the group buy for his 4-cavity clone of the RCBS mold ended, but he had some left over. He made them in both .455 and .457. Might have 'em still for all I know. I went .455 as my MKVI throats are .452.

Lack of lube could indeed be an issue. Sounds like a job for cookies - - if I find a chamber adapter, that is. One thing at a time! Pop and I still have to work up a legit fullbore load.:veryconfu

[FrankG]

I got this little giant on the way . Its a Braendlin carbine .

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/martini/carbine_zpsxh99gbjz.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/martini/carbine_zpsxh99gbjz.jpg.html)

[Von Gruff]

anticipation can be hard on the "wait a bit" part of our nature

[Hooker53]

Nice looking Martini Frank. I to would love to find a 45 Long Colt insert for mine as well. My search turned out no better then Bigslugs.

Roy
Hooker53

[FrankG]

The Little Beast got here today , 14 LOP and 21-1/4" barrel . Bore is cleaning up good with Kroil . Didnt find any 'farsi' or what ever its called on it any where. Just number stamping and a couple crossed flag stamps .
Its a light little devil , bet its going to bark like a big dog though !

I have it all torn down cleaning it up and its not in bad shape at all .

[Tackleberry41]

I use one of the McAce 45-70 inserts in mine. Easy enough to load em light, and the 458 bullet fits better, way less free bore like you get with a 45 colt. Bought 2, so you can have a follow up shot.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Been told I know absolutely nothing about how to get a 577/450 Martini to shoot at 50yds, so I'll just leave it at that! :kidding:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/577_450_50m.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/577_450_50m.jpg.html)

[Boz330]

I had one for awhile, recoil with BP is brutal.

Bob



I got this little giant on the way . Its a Braendlin carbine .

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/martini/carbine_zpsxh99gbjz.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/martini/carbine_zpsxh99gbjz.jpg.html)

[Boz330]

This isn't quite as good as BA's but was at 100yds. All I wanted was minute of deer.

Bob

[Bigslug]

I use one of the McAce 45-70 inserts in mine. . .

I got a reply to my e-mail today that confirmed that they are still making them in both .45-70 (for black powder levels only) and .45 Colt. $38 either way. http://www.mcace.com/index.htm Going to get one of each. I figure the HB Webley bullet concept is worth trying, as is the HB Lee copy of the .45-70 Gov. slug. . .

[Hooker53]

Thanks for posting that Big.

Roy
Hooker53

[FrankG]

Paper patched up some bullets with two wraps of cotton bond tracing paper bringing the .458 up to .468 then gave a light coat of lube. Bullets are 405 and 500 grain .Still waiting for brass and dies . I made a neck size only die to give me same OD of the .480 Ruger that I have seen many using although my die turned out with a .501" ID after polishing . If too big Ill make another ! I went by dimensions of the loading manual .

[Von Gruff]

With the magtech brass I have a .499 fired dia and the 480 Ruger die neck sizes to .495 and a loaded round is .496 with a .468 dia bullet.
Not much brass working so my cases should last through a great number of firings

[zuke]

I'm also using the 480 Ruger to neck size my Magtech brass, and so far 14 loading's!
On a whim I bought the LEE mold's for the 480 Ruger, both the 325 and 400gr and cast about 60 of each out of WW.
Accuracy of the 325's were super terrible at 300 yds.The 400's were about what I'm used to with 500gr PP'ed boolit's.
Both were tumble lubed with 45/45/10 lube and used as cast. I used 15gr of 700X held in with 2 square's of toilet paper

[BrentD]

I have been down this road. It is the head, not the case mouth that you have to worry about.
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/single-shot-rifles/warning-about-using-magtech-cbc-shotgun-cases-in-rifles/

I've seen a lot more like it too. Be careful, or better yet, pay the money and get real .577-450 brass. Just my two cents...

[Von Gruff]

Have read through that Brent and fortunately my MH wont take the smallest feeler guage (.006) behind a case so I will happily continue to use the magtech brass. I am not and will not load them to the levels that are noted in that GBO post.

[BrentD]

There is more stuff out there. But I've said my piece. I had to make this decision and decided it wasn't worth the risk and I got real brass from Jamison or someone. Anyway, I wouldn't do it, but you ain't me. Good luck.

[Von Gruff]

This is what Bertram brass costs here in NZ http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/reloading/cases/auction-899938978.htm

[FrankG]

This is what Bertram brass costs here in NZ http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/reloading/cases/auction-899938978.htm

Ouch!! $8 each !!!!!

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/single-...ses-in-rifles/

From the link I found something interesting ............................using FFg for filler material . That may have upped pressure a tad even when mixed 50/50 with inert .
"Ruptured cases. 70 gr of GOEX Fg topped with a 50/50 mix of CoW and FFg made using Lee 20 gr dipper, a fiber card wad, a grease cookie, fiber card wad, and CBE .462 500gr bullet."

[BrentD]

I got mine for much less. I think they were Jamison. Rocky Mt. Cartridge is another. My eyeballs are worth a few extra bucks.

[zuke]

For what I use in powder to charge each case, I'm more then happy using Magtech brass.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

This is what Bertram brass costs here in NZ http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/reloading/cases/auction-899938978.htm

Must be some mistake; that's 577 Snider Brass (which I make from 24ga Magtec at $AU35/25) :kidding:

[Von Gruff]

It is a generic picture they use for both the 577-450 and the 577 Snider (I think that they think no one will notice except those who may not want to pay the price anyway)
The magtech brass is still NZ$75/25 but $3 a case is way better than $8.

[FrankG]

After a bit of block adjustment to get striker to lite off the primers as it was hitting to low it was ready to shoot .

I shot 4 at 25 yds off hand and it shows promise with the patched up Lee 457405 and smokeless load .

3 big holes clustered in center and one high was 1st round .

The paper patch is slicking bore up nice !

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/martini/DSCN1714_zpsnt23nur7.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/martini/DSCN1714_zpsnt23nur7.jpg.html)

[FrankG]

I loaded 4 500 gr 457125LY paper patched up to .469 over Blue dot .
Braendlin / MH 577/450 .
Theres 10 shots in the group from 25yds standing .
Six Lee 457405 and four 457125LY 500 grain . Same powder charge !



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