Hollowpoint Boolit Alloy

[zubrato]

From my limited reading, I understand a lower antimony content and higher tin will dramatically improve a hollowpoints performance.

My question is can I get away with using clip on wheelweights straight? I am not looking for hunting or premium defense ammo, but some improved performance over a TC design.

I know they will end up shattering and the shank will continue forward, and I will end up experimenting with alloy composition later to increase performance but will I get good mold fillout from straight COWW? If not I will end up using some soldering tin if I can get a good deal on it, using the LASC ratio.
I would however like to be able to get away with not changing my alloy composition for the beginning and see how it goes.

Which hollowpoint mold pins are better for a low tin content alloy, regular or penta pins?

Thank you for your time and knowledge

[Beagle333]

Give it a whirl. I believe you are going to want some tin in a HP or you are going to really have a lot of rejects. Pewter is a much cheaper source of tin than solder, if you can round any up.
For a low tin content, cup points are better than either the regular or penta. I have a hard time getting COWW to flow into sharp corners and around HP pins unless I add tin, or get it hotter than usual, which is only good for a few drops,because it starts frosting pretty fast after that.

Good luck! :grin:

[GLL]

Try (your COWW + Pb 50/50) +2% Sn.
I commonly use Pb/Sn 20/1 because I have a large supply of tin available.

Jerry

[DLCTEX]

50/50 (ww/tin) works for me. Preheat mould and keep warm.

Meant to say ww/lead.

[bhn22]

It all depends on the target, and the impact velocity. Most of my cast HPs are around 10-12 on bhn, and are air cooled. This is to prevent brittleness, although overly soft bullets are undesirable too. Hollowpoint design and depth are factors too. You have a bit of experimentation ahead of you to find the answers to your particular situation. Don't focus on the tin, as much as you should be focusing on the antimony. Antimony is what causes the crystalline structure that leads to fracturing if you use too much. To test for brittleness, take one of your cast bullets and set it on something solid, like the anvil portion of many bench vises, and hit it really hard with a heavy hammer, a 3 pound should work. If it shatters, or fractures at all, you need to soften the bullet somehow.

[Outpost75]

The old .38 Special “FBI Load” expands to .54-.60 caliber from a 4-inch revolver and penetrates 12 inches of gelatin tissue stimulant. Firing from a 2 inch revolver reduces velocity by about 50 f.p.s. Expansion is then reduced to about .45-50 cal., but reduced expansion increases penetration, which can be a good thing.

Getting reliable expansion from common 3 percent antimony lead swaging alloy (11 BHN), requires a properly designed hollowpoint cavity and a striking velocity above 850 f.p.s. Achieving this with 158-gr. bullets from a two inch snub requires a +P load unless cylinder gap tends towards the minimum assembly tolerance of 0.003-.004.” Tighter gaps than .003" will cause cylinder binding if you fire more than two cylinders full or so of +P lead rounds. Expect a Delta-V of ten f.p.s. per 0.001” of gap difference from the maximum industry assembly tolerance of .008”.

Lead bullets enable higher velocities within permissible non +P pressures as are required for safe use in light frame revolvers. Hollow-point cavity geometry must be optimized to enable reliable low velocity expansion below 850 fps. Swaging lead hollow-points with large nose cavities is difficult in production because the bullets tend to “stick” on the nose punch and get mangled in the swaging machine, unless the punch has adequate “draft” to release the slug so that the bullet readily falls off. Meplat diameter and required punch draft limits practical cavity size in production.

Larger hollow-point cavities swaged in soft alloy of 10 BHN or less are easily damaged by normal handling, loading and shipment, producing higher scrap rates, reduced marketing cosmetics, and lower profit margins. Federal’s 125-gr. Chief’s Special non+P hollow point .38 Special had a good street record, but was expensive to make, a low volume seller, low profit, so was discontinued.

To get low velocity revolver bullets which expand, it is best to cast your own. Erik Ohlen at www.hollowpointmold.com has worked with users to develop cavity geometries which work at various handgun and rifle velocities with common alloys. The purpose for casting my own lead hollow-points is for field use and to conserve my +P factory service loads for defense carry.

Best results in my tests were obtained taking a cast bullet no harder than 10 BHN, having a meplat not less than 0.6 of bullet diameter, having a shallow cup point 30 degree draft and approximating 0.6 of meplat diameter using soft alloy in the .38 Special, .44 Special, .44-40 and .45 Colt revolvers, such a 1:30 tin/lead from Roto Metals.

Above 1000 fps and up to about 1500 fps straight wheelweights works fine.
Erik’s designs bullets agree with mmy hunting experience. Traditional Lyman style, small diameter, deep core pins producing a cylindrical avity shape or tiny tapered point frequently collapse in oblique impacts. They expand in soft alloy if they hit almost exactly point-on, but expansion at oblique angles is unreliable. Larger, angular hollow-point cavities such as used in the Speer Gold Dot law enforcement bullets, when applied to cast designs, facilitate filling cavities with grease or wax to prevent plugging with debris. Wax or grease behaves as a fluid to vector impact forces outward against the cavity walls which enhances low velocity expansion. Sharp-edged meplats "dig in" on oblique impacts and are less easily deflected upon striking bone than round -nosed profiles. Erik can convert round-nosed moulds to flat-nose for use in tubular magazines and to provide larger meplat. By using a larger diameter core pin, bullet length and projectile weight are reduced by truncating the original ogival curve at its newintersect point with the hollow point core pin.Americans are brainwashed by ammunition catalogs to expect double-caliber expansion with 85 percent weight retention. Maximum expansion inhibits penetration, which can impair performance on large animals. European fragmenting hunting bullets have been used successfully for 100 years and are well proven. RWS H-Mantel and the original Nosler Partitions were designed to expand, and then slough off the expanded nose in large fragments, which cause secondary wound channels. Such bullets giveoptimum performance on heavy game. Cast rifle bullets of flatnosed, gascheck design using 1:3 linotype and wheelweight alloy and heavy for their caliber, having a meplat of 0.6 to 0.7 of bullet diameter a shallow cup point of 0.6 of meplat diameter with 60 degree draft, can be driven to full velocity in cartridges such as the .303 British and .375 H&H Magnum.

[MT Gianni]

HP alloy is dependent on velocity. 32 long will need dead soft, 2500 fps can take a harder alloy. Then you match pin width and depth to V+A.

[bangerjim]

I use 2% Sn in ALL my boolits, no matter the shape or design. I gives excellent cavity fill-out.

It is just a necessary cost for the hobby we have chosen. Find some.


But as suggested, mix some up, cast it, and find what meets YOUR needs, not someone else's.

banger

[white eagle]

sage advice from posters above for sure
alloy is not the only consideration in a good hp boolit as you have seen
you never said what your intended firearm or cartridge was but the advice still is valid
don't cut yourself short on time,if you intend to hunt with this this year (made that mistake)
test your chosen alloy in a medium that closely resembles your intended target
to really tell the alloy tale

[gwpercle]

I used to cast everything with straight air cooled clip on wheel weights. My unlimited free supply ended and I started using range scrap or pure lead mixed 50/50 with the WW's to extend it.....Works better in hollow point design, wished I had stumbled on this years ago. But back then my best friend had a tire shop and they were free!
Gary

[chucky64]

You will have to start experimenting to see what works and what doesn't work. There are established alloy mixtures that will help get you started in the right direction. When I got my first two HP molds I read up on what had been working for other folks and tried to replicate what they are doing. Here are some photos
I took of recovered slugs from my first experimentations. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?125708-Testing-My-Mihec-Molds&p=1375261#post1375261

[zubrato]

I will be casting 9mm hollow points, and using these in 38spl and 357 magnum loads.
My main concern with too soft of a bullet is the case swaging down the lead. I just recently purchased a mihec mold so it may be a little while before I cast, age the boolits, and check for base swaging in the 9mm.
I will be scavenging my local thrift stores for pewter and looking to bring the hardness down to acceptable levels without leading or swaging.
This will be for my glock 19 factory barrel, which I've shot many many many thousands of lead boolits down range using the lee molds. However, I always used coww water dropped and aged. I hope due to the different design of the mihec boolit I wouldn't have to seat as far down and can use a softer alloy without swaging the case (previously used lee 125gr TLTC)

Thank you for the excellent advice with different applications, this will be a revolver and semi auto boolit. I appreciate any tips or help in this aspect of making boolits, my previous experience with blending alloys ends at mixing range scrap or any pure lead pieces I scrounged (eyeballing for 38spl loads)

[Beagle333]

Save some gas money and talk to this fellow right here. He is the pewter expert and has great stuff!!!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?278863-5-Pounds-Modern-Food-Service-Pewter-Ingots

(I'm just a customer of his and receive no discounts or "extras" for my endorsement of his pewter.)

[fredj338]

You can cast your lhp from any alloy if you just want paper perf. If you want terminal perf, you need to get the antimony level down. I like lead/tin, 20-1 for vel over 1100fps. You can make do with clip ww/pure lead at 50/50, w/ 1% tin for a little toughness.

[Good Cheer]

Expansion testing during load development for hollow point loads (at the distance) is just the only way to go.
Just like with hunting loads with boolits without hollow points, a little ways out there the velocity falls off and surprise!