Hornady L-N-L AP vs Dillon

[omgb]

I red a post the other day about a woman who was working over time to get her Dillon 1030 to load 38-55. It got me to thinking about what it would take to change my L-N-L from 223 to 38-55. Here goes:
1. change primer shuttle and primer seater and drop tube from large to small. 5 min max.
2. Swp case feeder plate from small to large.
3. Change case drop tube to large and adjust for drop height. Total time 6 min.
4. Swap dies 2 min
5. Chnge powder measure inner drop tube and calibrate measure 8 min.
6. Change shell plate 2 min.

About 25 min total give or take. No special parts. Loade rate with lead bullets 300 to 400 rounds per hour maybe 50% fster with a helper.

I can't see where the big Dillon is worth the extra money.

[VHoward]

OMG! Not another Dillon vs Hornady thread. Use your Hornady and get on with your life. Life's too short to worry about red or blue. Good grief.

[Kilroy08]

OMG! Not another Dillon vs Hornady thread. Use your Hornady and get on with your life. Life's too short to worry about red or blue. Good grief.

Hear hear! Pick your press and get on with it. It's not the arrow, it's the Indian pulling the bow string.

[M-Tecs]

I red a post the other day about a woman who was working over time to get her Dillon 1030 to load 38-55.


The 1050 is easily converted to the 38-55. Use a 30/30 conversion kit with a 375 powder funnel. You might have to modify the 30/30 case feed adapter for 38-55. That's it.

I don't have a L-N-L but I have two 1050's and think they are worth every penny I paid for them.

[ph4570]

Think you got step 1 wrong.

[omgb]

Think you got step 1 wrong.
You are right. Change small to large

[osteodoc08]

I've got both. Both have their quirks.

[jmorris]

About 25 min total give or take. No special parts. Loade rate with lead bullets 300 to 400 rounds per hour maybe 50% fster with a helper.

I can't see where the big Dillon is worth the extra money.

I have had both pre and post EZ ject LNL's neither was close to my 1050's in ability.

One of my 1050's will load 100 rounds in 5 min while I do something else, have done 1000 in 51min 25 seconds start to finish.

You just can't set an LNL up like this for example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

[omgb]

Excellent. This is precisely the level of conversation I was hoping would emerge. What you have here is a commercial grade system. And..you are correct, the L-N-L is never going to be able to do what you have that D1050 doing, not without considerably more modification. My point was to get some serious numbers out there as to what these two different approaches to reloading in bulk can do. If I were loading for commercial sale I'd go the 1050 rout. It clearly has an advantage in that area but it is not really meant to be changed once dialed in. Yes, it can be done but it's not a simple process.

The L-N-L is designed around the garage reloader/shooter who has many calibers for which he reloads. It can do some serious volume but not nearly what the D 1050 can do. Where the L-N-L shines is in the area of versatility. Caliber changes are quick and easy. The whole system is designed around flexibility at the expense of output. I'm not too sure cost is an issue here. A fully loaded L-N-L is gonna run you over $1600 with all the bells and whistles. You can start smaller and build up if you want; an option not really part of the D1050 system, but if you set both machines up for maximum production the cost differential between the two diminishes to the point of being irrelevant.

Product warranty between both is really the same. Both are no BS deals with lots of product support. What it comes down to is really two fold: (1) What matters more to you, production or versatility and (2) How available do you need your parts supply to be. If a single source for parts and supplies doesn't phase you then really the only question remaining is that of production verses versatility.

My point here was never to bash one machine over the other or to promote one over the other. I have Dillon machines too. What I wanted to do was spark some intelligent discourse on the strengths of each system in the hope of making the selection process a tad less obtuse.

[VHoward]

I can do a complete caliber change on my XL650 including primer size change in 10 minutes. Why didn't you compare similar machines instead of the Hornady L-N-L AP vs Dillons commercial loader?

[EddieNFL]

I red a post the other day about a woman who was working over time to get her Dillon 1030 to load 38-55. It got me to thinking about what it would take to change my L-N-L from 223 to 38-55. Here goes:
1. change primer shuttle and primer seater and drop tube from large to small. 5 min max.
2. Swp case feeder plate from small to large.
3. Change case drop tube to large and adjust for drop height. Total time 6 min.
4. Swap dies 2 min
5. Chnge powder measure inner drop tube and calibrate measure 8 min.
6. Change shell plate 2 min.

About 25 min total give or take. No special parts. Loade rate with lead bullets 300 to 400 rounds per hour maybe 50% fster with a helper.

I can't see where the big Dillon is worth the extra money.

You couldn't give me a 1030.

[Garyshome]

I don't have either I have a dillon 550b and won't be looking to buy anything else.

[omgb]

I can do a complete caliber change on my XL650 including primer size change in 10 minutes. Why didn't you compare similar machines instead of the Hornady L-N-L AP vs Dillons commercial loader?

It was an earlier post that got me to thinking about it. The D650 is of course much closer to the L-N-L than the D1050, both in design and intent. The issue really was the top of the line Hornady; what does it offer and to whom and the top of the line Dillon? No question about it, if I shot hundreds of rounds a week in one primary caliber I'd go with the Dillon 1050. Likewise if I were reloading commercially but for a guy like me who loads for many different calibers and shoots a few hundred rounds a month The Hornady machine works fine. It's especially well suited to working with lead bullets in rifle calibers and the price point works for me too. FWIW, I use a Hornady 366 for loading 28 and 12 gauge. I shoot maybe 150 rounds of each per week. For the last couple of years the 12 gauge machine has sat idle as the cost of shells is so cheap it's kind of silly to reload them. Now if I were shooting trap competitively I'd need 500-600 shells a week. If that were the case I'd sell the 366 and invest in a Spolar. Much greater output, power assist available etc. For 16 gauge I use a Hornady 266. I only need 6 or 7 boxes a season so a good single stage press works fine. Likewise, 45-70 and 45-90 are loaded on my Redding T-7. I only shoot BP in them and I use all of the stations. I'll load 200 rounds at a time for a match and the Redding is just the ticket. Back in the day, when I first got started 40 years ago I had a Rockchucker....still have it and I still use it on occasion. I guess I don't have much brand loyalty. Red, green. blue, orange, it's all the same to me if it works.

[Labanaktis]

I have had both. A Dillon 650 or 1050 is a lot nicer of a machine

just my opinion

Matt

[Alvarez Kelly]

I red a post the other day about a woman who was working over time to get her Dillon 1030 to load ...

Dillon has new press? I am not familiar with the Dillon 1030. I need to go buy one!

[omgb]

Dillon has new press? I am not familiar with the Dillon 1030. I need to go buy one!

Yea yea yea, I slipped on the key stroke. But if you want to go searching for a D1030 be my guest.

[M-Tecs]

If we are going to get picky the commercial Dillon machines started with the RL 1000, next was the RL 1050 and now the Super 1050. No D1030's or D1050's in the lineup.

[omgb]

I for one, will take your word for it.

[bottomline]

I have the Hornady LNL & 2 Dillon 650's - they are all great machines and they all crank out ammo plenty fast. Caliber changes on either is no big deal and whether it takes 10 mins or 30 mins - so what? I'm not billing myself by the minute. I don't have a 1050 but have seen them in use and if thought I needed (I don't) to produce ammo at much higher volumes in less time, then I would consider the 1050.

[375supermag]

Hi...

I was recently in the market for a progressive reloader and after weighing the pros and cons of both the Dillon and Hornady machines, I went with the Hornady unit.

I think that the Hornady unit will meet my needs better. I load 11 different handgun calibers, some in batches of 1000+ at a time.
As I get this machine up and running, my hope is that the expense of shell plates, bullet and case feeding dies will be offset by a substantial time-saving as opposed to using my RockChucker.
If my son and I can run off a batch of 500-1000 rounds of any given caliber for our handguns on a Sunday afternoon, then I can devote more time to reloading rifle ammunition and perhaps shotgun reloading, as well.

I purchased a new bench(rather than build another) from Sam's Club yesterday to mount the Hornady LNL on. Bench is 6ft long and 25" deep with a maple top on a steel frame with leveling feet. It weighs 200lbs., so it should be plenty sturdy.
My plan is to put the new bench together tomorrow after a morning trip to the gun club for some much needed trigger time. It will then be anchored to the wall studs in the hobby room.
My old bench is pretty full with my RockChucker, Lil Dandy powder measure and an accessory plate for mounting my APS bench-mounted priming unit and case trimmer already on it, so no room for any other equipment on that bench.

I ordered the case feeder and bullet feeder Friday evening and they should be here before next weekend. Really looking forward to getting this machine set up and learning how it works with my son. My son is really jazzed up about this, also.

We decided we would bite the figurative bullet and buy all new die sets for this machine and keep the old sets for smaller runs on the single-stage RockChucker. Certainly a significant additional expense, but I really don't like adjusting dies once a load is settled on and since the whole idea behind a progressive is to crank out large quantities of the same caliber/load combination, I think that is the best course of action.

Once we get this unit set up, I will hopefully be able to take some photos and post them here. Exciting times here at The Estate.

[omgb]

I have the Hornady LNL & 2 Dillon 650's - they are all great machines and they all crank out ammo plenty fast. Caliber changes on either is no big deal and whether it takes 10 mins or 30 mins - so what? I'm not billing myself by the minute. I don't have a 1050 but have seen them in use and if thought I needed (I don't) to produce ammo at much higher volumes in less time, then I would consider the 1050. That was my original point. They are all good at what they do. One has to ask what one wants to do and then buy accordingly.

[omgb]

375, when you set your machine up take your time. Two areas in the basic machine are critical; the timing of the shell plate and the timing and travel of the primer slide. If you already know what I'm saying please forgive me. If not, then what I am going to tell you will save you tones of frustration. First, lets deal with the primer slide. After assembling it as directed the next step is fine tuning it. Forget all of the online mods to the system to make it work. Most don't help and all run the risk of screwing things up. At the top of the press frame the primer cam wire hooks into a black plastic receiver which in turn, is screwed to the press frame with an allen bolt. Notice that the slot through which the allen bolt passes is elongated. Here is your adjustment for slide travel. With the slide installed and the primer tube base but not the tube installed, run the ram to the top of its stroke. loosen the allen bold and look down through the tube base and note the position of the opening in the slide. It should be centered in the tube base. If not, move the came wire in and out by sliding the black plastic receiver toward or away from the press. Once it's all centered, tighten things down. That's it. Your primer pick up is all set. Now drop the ram down and mount a shell plate, any shell plate will do. Work the ram a few times and then while at rest at the bottom of the stroke, note the position of the primer insertion stud in relation to the open jaws of the shell plate. It should be centered. If not, run the ram up and with a small allen wrench, adjust the LEFT pawl adjuster 1/8 of a turn either in or out depending on where your plate was indexing. Now cycle the press several times and check for centered indexing. Repeat until the primer punch is centered in the shell plate opening. Now mount a sizing die. Lube a case and run the ram up. If the case enters on center you are jake. If not, make adjustments to the RIGHT side pawl as you did with the left until every thing is centered. You are now timed and set. These two steps will eliminate 99% of the headaches people have in getting their press dialed in.

Setting up the case feeder is simple enough. The key here is to make sure that your base plate, the plate that holds the cam wire and the finished shell catcher box is pressed in flush and parallel with the left side of the press base. If not, the case feeder shuttle with drag and scrape on the cam wire. If you run into problems, PM me and I'll help or google the Hornady videos on Youtube.

Now, some spare parts you should order STAT. Get two or three of the case retainer springs. They do get mangled from time to time. You will also need a spare case feeder cam wire. These rarely fail but when they do, you case feeder is inoperable. Likewise the primer shuttle cam wire. I would also get two or three primer shuttle springs. These never break but they do get launched into who knows where if you loose your grip when mounting them. Keep your press clean and greased. If you spill powder, blow it away with a can of keyboard cleaning air before you do anything else. Nothing knocks out a primer feed faster than loose powder getting in the shuttle path.

[VHoward]

You can't assume anything. If he already was aware of those items, then hearing someone restate it isn't going to be any big deal. If he didn't know about it, then you save him some frustration that might have given him a bad impression of the machine. If I had opted for the Hornady L-N-L AP instead of the Dillon XL650, I probably would have been just as happy with it as I am with the XL650.

[omgb]

Another tip. The Dillon low primer warning device is less than $20 and works. A couple of wraps of black tape on the primer tube cap/centering device, an inch or two off the Dillon primer follower rod and you have a low primer warning device and a primer follower that helps feed primers.

[mongoose33]

On my Hornady LnL it takes me 10 minutes to swap calibers if I have to switch to a different sized primer.

I have that press figured out for the most part. Good throughput, good ammo. I wouldn't switch given the investment I have in shellplates, die bushings, other accoutrements of the press. It all works well for me.

I hear people with Dillons can also produce good ammo. :)

IMO, people should use what others around them tend to have so they can find someone to rely upon for help if they need it.

[rodsvet]

The 1050 does not have a no BS warranty. One year and you are on your own.

[375supermag]

Hi...

I appreciate the input and the information. Any help I can get is going to be helpful.
The heads-up on the spare parts is a good idea.

I assume you are running one of these machines??? If so, my question is does the machine require constant adjustment to the primer feed and shell plate indexing or once set is it pretty much locked in? Same questions on the case and bullet feed systems as well. Just curious as to how well the various components hold their settings in actual use.

I have watched a lot of youtube videos, but any further information or experience is always appreciated.

Thank you for your input...any further help or advice you can provide will be cheerfully accepted.

[omgb]

I have two machines. One is an early one with the problematic primer system, the other is a newer machine with case feed. I do not have the bullet feeder. For the most part, if you keep them clean they run without adjustment. It pays to check them over before beginning a run. If you feel the press dragging or binding, STOP and find the problem. The mechanical advantage of the ram is something like 4 to 1 so you can mangle something without much effort.

The machine will stay in time without much trouble. Eventually it will wear on the pawls and you will need to readjust it but in what, 12 years I've adjusted mine twice. The primer feed is another issue. Things do hang up there every few hundred rounds so keep it clean. The slide is the issue, if powder gets in there it will fail to feed. Still, last week I loaded over 500 rounds of 30-06 without so much as a burp. The machines like Federal and CCI primers best. Winchester are slightly thicker/taller and may not feed as smoothly as the others.

The case feeder will hold its setting once dialed in. You have two weak points. First the slider cam. Fit it with the right V block and make sure the wire has been properly adjusted according to the directions. It should never bind or drag if adjusted properly and it should never be lubricated.

The case pivot that receives the dropped case and then swings it down into the shuttle is another weak point. Keep it tight and clean. No lubrication is needed. You may have to occasionally grab the whole case pivot assembly and pull it into alignment from time to time depending on how rough it gets handled but honestly, I set mine years ago and it is still dropping cases as designed. The case feeder almost never fails. You my get a large rifle case jammed in the collator from time to time but clearing it takes seconds.

I purchased a three ring binder and a gross of clear document sleeves. I then photo copied each page of the instruction booklets and slipped them into the sleeves. I also downloaded a few shell plate and die guides and put them in there too. I also added a service and production log so I keep track of adjustments, repairs and what and how much I load and when. I can tell you, I don't have many adjustment and repair entries. I keep this next to the bench and refer to it from time to time if I'm doing something I haven't done in a long time such as changing the powder drop tubes or setting up the feeder for a different caliber. I also have Hornady's service number listed in there too.

I enjoy my machines. They both are being converted to EZ-Ject over the next few weeks. I have 8 shell plates with Hornady now and have 6 more to send them. They tell me turn around is about 4 weeks so... we'll have to see about that.

Oh, I'm sure you know this but just in case, I'll say it anyway, you never know who's reading. When dialing in your dies, always begin with the sizing die. Loosen the spindle so that the decapper slides freely. Back it off so that the pin is not protruding pas the die body. Run the ram up and screw in the die until it makes contact with the shell plate. Now lock it in. Then drop the ram and insert a deprimed case. now run the ram up and the case into the die. Now tap the spindle down until it bottoms in the case. Raise it about 1/16" and lock it in. Now the decapper is centered and properly adjusted for height. Next is either your expander die for cast bullets or your powder drop. Set those according to directions. Then the powder cop and then the bullet feeder and finally a seater crimper. I'm sure you get the picture. The whole idea is to begin with the sizing die and work around the clock from there.

[jmorris]

Excellent. This is precisely the level of conversation I was hoping would emerge. What you have here is a commercial grade system. And..you are correct, the L-N-L is never going to be able to do what you have that D1050 doing,


This is is one of my 650's manually loading 100+ rounds faster than my auto 1050. Faster but obviously more work than pressing a button.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl63cR9Y_Y0

[Iowa Fox]

Another tip. The Dillon low primer warning device is less than $20 and works. A couple of wraps of black tape on the primer tube cap/centering device, an inch or two off the Dillon primer follower rod and you have a low primer warning device and a primer follower that helps feed primers.


Who has them for less than $20 ? My son needs one.

[VHoward]

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23628/catid/6/Dillon_Primer_System_Early_Warning_Kit Well they are up to $26 now, but still inexpensive.
http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/press-accessories/products/low-primer-alarm-system-for-the-hornady-lock-n-load The Inline system comes with a bushing to make it fit the Hornady press and it is red for $55.