Reaming a 45-70 to 45-90 Question:

[M71]

I'm thinking of purchasing a new "Long Range" Pedersoli 1874 in 45-70 and having it reamed out to 45-90. I talked with a master single shot builder this morning about the job. He said it was basically a routine operation, he'd remove the barrel and was willing to take care of it. He said if I removed the stock and for-end myself he would even charge me a bit less. As a courtesy he would also check to make sure the barrel and receiver alignment was perfect. He quoted me a very reasonable price of $75.00 and since I would be dropping off the rifle myself there is no shipping involved. He did however explain that there would be a visible "ghost ring" in the chamber due to the existing taper in my guns chamber but it would have no effect on the fire formed brass or extraction. Also that the brass fired in that gun should only be used in that gun. I mentioned that perhaps after finishing with the reamer a final polishing would diminish the visual phenomena. His reply was that no amount of polishing would remove what he called a "ghost ring". Does anyone here have any experience regarding this "visual effect" when punching out a chamber? I'm not doubting his wisdom but I'm second guessing myself. Perhaps getting a new 45-90 would be a better decision. My reasoning behind buying the 45-70 and having it rechambered is because I've got a line on a 1874 with the exact figuration I want (pistol grip, shotgun butt, 34" 1/2 round high polish blued barrel, checked and it's $400.00 less than Dixie and Cherry's plus it's in stock.

[country gent]

Polishing tends to follow the existing form thats there so if a "ghost ring" is present it going to polish in place not actually be removed. It shouldnt make any diffrence other than visual and the segregation of cases for this rifle. If a reputable builder trust him and run with it.

[Chill Wills]

If your gunsmith is up Big Thompson Creek, he is good for what he says. IMHO anyway.

[Don McDowell]

There is no shortage of rifles that have had the chamber lengthed either by a real gunsmith or someone that made the simple call to reamer rentals.com...
My question would be why not, if you're plan is to make a long range rifle that is seriously capable of going to Byers and winning all the prizes, just have one or the other rifle rebarreled with a truly match grade barrel and proven match grade chamber reamed...

[M71]

My question would be why not, if you're plan is to make a long range rifle that is seriously capable of going to Byers and winning all the prizes, just have one or the other rifle re-barreled with a truly match grade barrel and proven match grade chamber reamed...
Yup Don, that's the top shelf recommendation. The gunsmith up the road from me a bit could blueprint the entire operation. When I win the lottery I'll have a bakers dozen made up. My reality dictates attempting to add a 45-90 to my collection without going broke or having to sell any of my other guns I have a close relationship with (too many). Your recommendation is favorable because it would probably save time and money. My trial and error methodology has a high probability of having an okay gun as opposed to assembling a well planed build with the finest materials and labor available. Couldn't I just get lucky on the cheap, probably not. Thank you.

[Don McDowell]

Is the rifle you're thinking about buying and rechambering new or used? I ask because sometimes there are reasons folks sell rifles that go far beyond they just up and decided they didn't want it any more...If that's the case, then there'll be expense well beyond the 75$ chambering job.

[Doc Highwall]

Have you shot it as a 45-70 just to see how it shoots?

[M71]

Have you shot it as a 45-70 just to see how it shoots?
The proposed "Long Range" rifle is "On Hold" in Sidney Nebraska, about 2 1/2 hours from me. I have a "Super Match" roller in 45-70 that has the same heavy 34" barrel as the 1874 that I'm supposed to go see today and it shoots "Lights Out" with my T. Ballard 531gr. PP bullets. I can't justify having another 45-70 since the one I have is a gem. I'm wanting a 45-90 because I got all set up for a Farmingdale Shiloh that had to be returned to Cabela's because of a huge head space problem.
.

[Don McDowell]

Don't know if it's the same one or not, but they had a Pedersoli there in Sidney with the half round barrel, etc that was used,, the front sight slot was so slopped out you would need to enlarge it to take a C Sharps or Shiloh base.

[WALLNUTT]

You might want to check into it a little more especially if you shoot smokeless. I have a good friend who travels to all the big BPCS shoots and says 45/70 is all the capacity he wants. Anything bigger is too much. Throat it and seat the bullet out. He calls a 560gr "light".

[250kt]

If you're gonna shoot smokeless there is no point to the 45-90. If shooting black like said you can seat the bullet out of the 45-70 and have the same capacity as the 90. May or may not need to ream the throat to seat out with a heavy. Maybe you already know all this and just want a 45-90. That's all good too. 45-70 brass is way cheaper if you can find it though

[Ballistics in Scotland]

There is nothing alarming in what you have been told. He is preparing you for the worst, or preparing himself for the most pernickety, for there may be a visible ring in the chamber but it is far from certain. It would be as harmless as he says, even if you reload your cases many times.

The benefits of the conversion (besides wanting one) depend on what propellant you use. There is next to no practical improvement over .45-70 if you will always use smokeless, and some people do. But with black powder there will be. The rifling twist made for a 45-70 is better in a single shot than the slow twist used in the early Winchester 1886 repeaters.

It is indeed a pretty simple job which you could do yourself. But $75 has to be about half the cost of the reamer nowadays, and although I don't know how much Reamer Rentals charge, I doubt if they plan on many customers per reamer to get their money back. I'm not sure what he means by making sure, as a courtesy, that the barrel to receiver alignment is perfect. If he means turning it in to exactly the right position after having removed it, it sounds like a more fundamental part of the deal. If he means making sure that the barrel shoulder bears evenly, all round, on the front of the receiver, it sounds very worthwhile.

[Gunlaker]

I think the key is the quality of the gunsmith. If the gunsmith is good then you'll be fine. If it's anyone recommended by Chill Wills then you will be in good hands. :-) Be wary of sub standard gunsmithing. I have more than one rifle that has been chambered not quite right. Sometimes you pay for it with less than top notch accuracy.Chris.

[Gunlaker]

I don't know why this forum is ruining my formatting. Sorry for the bunched up text.Chris.

[M71]

Don't know if it's the same one or not, but they had a Pedersoli there in Sidney with the half round barrel, etc that was used,, the front sight slot was so slopped out you would need to enlarge it to take a C Sharps or Shiloh base.
I'm calling them before I make the drive. I was under the impression it was new. When I talked with their inventory person she said there were only three left company wide.

Strictly black for the Italian single shots. I load smokeless for a bunch of other rifles though. I experimented with smokeless in a 45-70 years ago, black powder gave me much better consistency and it is much easier to clean the bore.

[M71]

I think the key is the quality of the gunsmith. If the gunsmith is good then you'll be fine. If it's anyone recommended by Chill Wills then you will be in good hands. :-) Be wary of sub standard gunsmithing. I have more than one rifle that has been chambered not quite right. Sometimes you pay for it with less than top notch accuracy.Chris.
Chill Wills knows the gunsmith I talked with, he has confidence in him.

[Don McDowell]

The one I saw was a used rifle, so if this one is new you're likely good to go.

[oldred]

If you're gonna shoot smokeless there is no point to the 45-90.

That's a common line of thought but not entirely accurate, the reasoning usually goes that the case capacity on the 45/70 is enough that it can easily be overloaded so what's the point in having even more? Actually with the 45/70 vs the longer '90 case there is an advantage even with smokeless, with the right powders the larger case capacity can yield higher velocity at the same pressures as the 45/70 or the same velocity at a lower pressure. One of the Lyman publishings suggests about 150 to 200 FPS increase with the longer case and smokeless powder so yes there is an advantage even with smokeless.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I didn't go quite as far as to say "no point", but there isn't much. I haven't seen that Lyman manual, but my guess is that they were talking of loads held to a specific pressure for old rifles. With a modern-made Sharps the difference would probably be even less, and not much to give up cheap (well, relatively cheap) and very durable brass for.

On reflection, perhaps the mention of a ghost ring would be because he plans on extending the chamber with a neck reamer, which would lack the slight taper of the .45-70 chamber. There is still nothing wrong with that technique, and with a modern-made and presumably accurately dimensioned .45-70 chamber, I doubt if you would really need to segregate the case.

[LynC2]

I just recently reamed an Italian Sharps copy 45-70 out to 45-100 for a friend and looking at the fired cases, one can't even tell where the original chamber ended and the new one began. He was loading up some pretty stout smokeless loads and it definitely would have shown up. I believe you won't have any problems with it unless something is amiss with the original chamber.

[EDG]

There is almost no reasonable advantage and it is not because of ballistics.
It has to do with recoil. With a full case of smokeless a 45-70 produces more recoil that most are willing to tolerate.
A 45-90 approaches the capacity of a 458 Win Mag and few people enjoy endless plinking sessions with full power rounds in the .458 WM.



That's a common line of thought but not entirely accurate, the reasoning usually goes that the case capacity on the 45/70 is enough that it can easily be overloaded so what's the point in having even more? Actually with the 45/70 vs the longer '90 case there is an advantage even with smokeless, with the right powders the larger case capacity can yield higher velocity at the same pressures as the 45/70 or the same velocity at a lower pressure. One of the Lyman publishings suggests about 150 to 200 FPS increase with the longer case and smokeless powder so yes there is an advantage even with smokeless.

[oldred]

There's no doubt recoil can be a limiting factor and I can agree with that, I was just addressing a common suggestion (not saying that was even the case there) that the '90 offers no advantage over the '70 because the '70 case will easily hold enough powder for an overcharge so what's the point? I have seen that assessment of the comparison several times and I was just pointing out that, recoil aside, the larger case does indeed offer an advantage for those who want it. The same velocity at a lower pressure with that longer case may be the advantage for some or somewhat higher velocity while staying at the same pressure limits might be the advantage to others but the fact is that with either BP or smokeless there are advantages to that bigger case.

The 45-90 is an excellent round that, JMO, is a better all-around cartridge than the 45/70 with the notable exceptions of cost and availability, the availability part being a serious annoyance sometimes!

[M71]

The drive was miserable, thunder storms and heavy rain. The rifle was new with box. The gun had been in inventory for three years. They said "We don't sell many of those". There are a couple of insignificant handling marks. I pointed them out and asked what their best price was. The library salesman hit up the manager with a figure of $1529.99. The manager signed off on it so aside from being on sale for $100.00 off they discounted it another 10%. It's fairly common for them to do that, but not always. I took some early morning photos. Here is the rifle.

[Chill Wills]

Nice!
And I this this is the 45-70 that you will be having made into 45-2.4" ? If I followed to this point. Looks good!

As a side note, Colorado Rifle Club was to have a Long Range Creedmoor match today - the range location is in N.E. Colorado and was rained out by the same two week rain event that made driving to get the rifle so much fun. The creeks near the range are over the road from one direction and the other road would be an axle deep mud rally.
Well, at least you got your rifle!
Maybe by the time we dry out and you are all setup you will come out and join us for our friendly local Creedmoor matches and put that freshed out chamber through its paces.

Enjoy your rifle, Michael Rix

[montana_charlie]

My Pedersoli 45/70 was deepened to 45/90.
I am happy with the result, but I wished (at the time) that there was a way to do the job while keeping the Pedersoli throat up front.

That reamer did not exist ... except at the factory.

CM

[Chill Wills]

Just reading the friendly banter above 45-70 v 45-90 or 45-2.4"

When black powder is the fuel and having experience with both case lengths in the Creedmoor matches, the shorter 45-70 is not much of a handycap. There are few days or maybe better stated, very few conditions that the longer case will save you and your score.

My writer skills are only fair but If I may draw an analogy; you have two pickup trucks, both the same model. One with a mid-sized gas engine, one with a turbo diesel. For normal day to day getting around, or even moving a load, each will do the job with equal outcome. As an example of when the added power of the diesel makes a difference is getting over the high mountain pass like you are at sea level or motoring along the freeway towing a max load at full speed limit. You get the idea. 999 out of each one thousand miles the greater power of the diesel is not needed nor even useful and comes at an additional price.

So bringing this back to longrange shooting; the list of riflemen winning and placing well in national and international matches using the 45-70 is much higher than commonly known. I would use myself as an example but modesty... well - I have shot some of my best scores and had my best wins using the 45-70 and sometimes I wonder why I even shoot the longer case. There are trade-offs, all are small to be sure.
The single biggest thing is the need to get out there and shoot with what you have and learn to be good. Shoot, Shoot Shoot!

I hope this puts some perspective on one aspect of BP longrange shooting.

[Don McDowell]

Mr. Wills brings up a good point about the ability of the 45-70. Especially when you combine it with energetic powders such as Swiss and Olde Eynsford. Getting a 530 gr bullet to 1220 fps isn't a hard thing to do and still maintain accuracy.

[Markbo]

That is a crying shame right there M71. All these plans and you get a gun that is too pretty to shoot. :D

[country gent]

Looks like my Pedersoli Long Range I got at Cabellas 15-20 years ago. Mine dosnt have the checkering. I have refitted the sights with a widage adjustable front and soule type rear sight and hadley eye cup. If its anything like mine it will be a great shooter. One suggestion Ill make is put a 100-200 rds thru it before chambering to 45-2.4. Do this to make sure everything is right and working as rechambering is sure to void the warranty.