Foot Pounds of Energy???

[BCB]

I just got done using an online ballistics program to calculate the foot pounds of energy that will be produced from a 44 Magnum reload I am planning on using for hunting.
I would like to use the 44-250-K bullet pushed along at 1050 fps. The program indicated 641 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle and 575 foot pounds of energy remaining at 50 yards. Most of my shots will be much less than 50 yards, with the majority of chances of shooting probably at the 30 yard mark. Does the amount of energy shown from the program seem to be enough to humanely kill a white-tailed deer? I have used full power loads in the 44 Magnum years ago with good results but they were jacketed bullets. I have also taken a good many deer with Contenders, but again, jacketed bullets. All of these loads produce much greater energy output. I feel the 262 grain cast slug at 1050 fps should be sufficient for deer at prudent ranges. Any other thoughts? Thanks…BCB

[The Nyack Kid]

BCB you just opened up a whole can of worms .
Foot pounds of energy does not kill animals .bollits that destroy vital tissue kills animals .you did not say what the brinell hardness of your boolits happen to be ,and what the memplat(flat on the nose of the boolit) is .but if they are harder than air cooled wheelwheights that you have a very fine boolit load combo for deer out to 100 yards (provided you can hit them .this will be the deciding factor ) .FPofE realy does its best with "inferor" small bore rounds .even then it does not tell all there is to know about a round . boolits especily heavy , hard cast wide memplat boolits render the "Foot Pounds Needed to Kill soandso Animal " even more worthless that it already is. FPofE is IMO a marketing plot to sell rifles and gunmags .
your load is more than pleny for deer out to 50 yards ,an expert would have no trouble killing an elk at 100 yards with this load .

[Bass Ackward]

I would like to use the 44-250-K bullet pushed along at 1050 fps. The program indicated 641 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle and 575 foot pounds of energy remaining at 50 yards. Most of my shots will be much less than 50 yards, with the majority of chances of shooting probably at the 30 yard mark. Thanks…BCB

BCB,

Ah ha! So you got it working. Did you get the leading stopped?

You will be OK for deer. I would keep it soft as you could. But the ol 45 Colt load was only @ 900 fps with that weight. No Texas heart shots. My personal preference would be for a little more, but you will poke a hole.

[waksupi]

BCB, I've killed some deer and antelope over the years with the 240 gr. SWC. Some of the antelope at ranges I won't mention, as you would think me a damned liar.
They have plenty of killing power for your game. They whiz right through the biggest whitetail or muley you would ever shoot. I know of one individual who has taken two elk with the same bullet from a pistol.
Also consider, I've killed deer with the 6.5 at 1700fps or less, and they died just fine. Much smaller meplate and tissue disruption. And they also shot completely through.
Put the bullet where it's supposed to be. It will do the job.
Hunt, and be happy.

[Shuz]

Brad--You gonna stuff that RCBS 250K with a soft nose?
--Shuz

[BCB]

I figured the 262 grainer would have enough oomph to be acceptable for white-tailed deer. I just thought I might like to hear it from some of the more knowledgeable cast bullet shooters.

Shuz,
Yep, I will certainly be using the soft nose bullets. I still have some of the tips, so I will make up a few composites to save and use during our deer season. It will be an interesting project. I don’t hunt with the enthusiasm of earlier days, but I might “luck” into a deer at close range…

Bass,
I sort of got the leading problem resolved. I put all of my reloading information into a spreadsheet and I am able to sort and filter and then compare results. I noticed that my leading seemed to occur at velocities >1100 fps but <1300 fps. This was not a real scientific study, but casual observations as I got more involved with the leading situation. So here are a few facts: I had been using 7.0 grains of Green Dot or WW-230 for velocities of 923 fps and 955 fps respectively—Very minimal leading. I then stepped up to 8.0 grains of Green Dot or WW-230 for velocities of 1045 fps and 1075 fps respectively—Very little leading again. (8.0 grains of WW-230 will most likely be my hunting load with the 44-250-K bullet). I then went to WC-820 and H-110 and was recording velocities of 1200+ fps but <1300 fps. Leading became atrocious. There was the ½” strip of lead deposited at the 5 o’clock area of the rifling just in front of the forcing cone. Now here is where things get a bit interesting, but probably believable due to greater pressures and maybe a better seal with the bullet and the bore. I cranked the velocity to 1350+ fps using the H-110. Leading was minimal to nonexistent! Accuracy was the same!!! So there are the facts. I did thoroughly clean the barrel using Sweet’s, J&B, and rubbing compound. I think this may have helped smooth things a bit, although this barrel had been thoroughly cleaned many times over the past years using the J&B, but never the rubbing compound.
Just another day in the life…BCB

[Junior1942]

In the last week I've shot probably 200 rounds of the Lee 310 RF gascheck through my SBH. The alloy was pure lead. It don't get no softer. The velocities were ~1100 fps. Lube was 2 coats of Lee Liquid Alox. Leading was zero. 200 pure lead bullets. 1100 fps. 0 lead in barrel. Hello?

[BCB]

Junior 1942,
I am assuming you are hinting to the 2 coats of Alox and the gascheck. Yep, I can shoot bunches of Lyman 429650's (315-320 grains) gaschecked slugs at 1177 fps (H-110) and 1300+ fps (WC-820) and get very little leading also. I just wanted to shoot the Keith style bullet and save a bit of work with not having to install a gascheck as is required on the 429650's...BCB

[Scrounger]

Junior 1942,
I am assuming you are hinting to the 2 coats of Alox and the gascheck. Yep, I can shoot bunches of Lyman 429650's (315-320 grains) gaschecked slugs at 1177 fps (H-110) and 1300+ fps (WC-820) and get very little leading also. I just wanted to shoot the Keith style bullet and save a bit of work with not having to install a gascheck as is required on the 429650's...BCB

How do you know? Have you ever tried them without the gas checks? :) Some people here have reported success shooting gas-check type bullets without the check. Easy enough to try...

[Bass Ackward]

II cranked the velocity to 1350+ fps using the H-110. Leading was minimal to nonexistent! Accuracy was the same!!! So there are the facts. BCB


BCB,

Leading is never a sought after thing. And this is why so many people do things so differently. Sometimes it doesn't have a thing to do with bore finish. One guy will swear by liquid Alox, and another curse it. One thing is for sure, There is no one way that guarantees success under every circumstance. Some methods have .... better statistical chances than other methods, but in the end, proof of the taste is still in the puddin.

That's why there are so many things involved. And you were worried about alignment. When I told my dad about the 5 o'clock leading his comment was the forcing cone was cut high of center with the bore causing you to break seal. So there you go. Now you have heard every excuse.

[fiberoptik]

BCB,

.... And this is why so many people do things so differently. Sometimes it doesn't have a thing to do with bore finish. One guy will swear by liquid Alox, and another curse it. One thing is for sure, There is no one way that guarantees success under every circumstance. Some methods have .... better statistical chances than other methods, but in the end, proof of the taste is still in the puddin.

That's why there are so many things involved. And you were worried about alignment. When I told my dad about the 5 o'clock leading his comment was the forcing cone was cut high of center with the bore causing you to break seal. So there you go. Now you have heard every excuse.
Alignment issues, yeah, that's what my problem was with my wife... Took me THREE DAYS to get the right alignment... :mad:

[BCB]

Yea, there are many factors for sure. I will try some of the gascheck designed bullets without checks just out of curiosity—when I get the time. That always seems to be a factor also!

A forcing cone cut off center? Hmmmm…Darn Ruger! I purchased it used a bunch of years ago for literally a couple hundred bucks. It has well earned that purchase price. I really don’t expect it to be as great as a $1000 handgun, but I’ll bet that one that costs a grand won’t shoot 5 times better than my Ruger!!!

I guess what I am saying is that since I have done a bit of closer looking at the leading and staying within certain velocity parameters, maybe things ain’t as bad as previously thought. One other poster on a different forum basically said, “If you’re shooting lead out of your barrel, you are going to get lead in your barrel”. Maybe it is sort of that simple.

I also think that using the rubbing compound and “brutally” cleaning the bore the other day may have helped a bit. I may do this regiment again after a few hundred more rounds go down range.

So, thanks to all who replied. As Gomez Addams of the Addams family always said, “I’m feeling much better now!” And so it goes…BCB

[JohnH]

BCB, I didn't follow the thread through once it turned to leading, so youmay already have an answer to your question youare satisfied with. I did own an NEF Handi Rifle in 44 Mag. The barrel was oversize, .432 and at the time i had not slugged teh bore and was shooting the plain standard .429. I couldn't get decent velocity above 1400 fps. I finally took a Lee 310 mold, machined off the gas check shank (twist was too slow for the long 310) and ended up with a plain base 265 grainer. I was driving the bullet at 1275 fps adn it made nice 1`" groups at 50 yards and brought home two does with all the aplomb of them high fallutten J bullets. I know cause I plunked two other deer with Speer 270 Gold Dot at 1570 fps. I culdn't tell one whit of difference between the two loads. I too was concerned at the start of that season if the load was up to the task.

One Mr. Scovill answered a letter I wrote on this subject and I quote "A 265 grain bullet from a 44 Mag at 1275 fps will shoot completely through any deer in Alabama. I have never recovered such a bullet from a deer." I can testify that there were two deer in Alabama the on which the first statement proved correct. We will have to trust Mr. Scovill for the veracity of the second.