Providence/Lyman #21 receiver sight?

[Irascible]

I see an ad in THE BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE NEWS for a Lyman #21 receiver sight for the 1895 and other Winchester lever guns. It is made by Providence Tool Co. (www.peabodyrifles.com). Has anybody used one or at least examined one? I think it would be a nice adition to my 1895, but don't want to buy junk. Original and other reproductions are many hundreds of dollars.

[bigbear]

Just put one on my 1895. I'll see how it works this weekend. Doesn't look as nice as an original, but they go for $300-400 the few times I've come across one as opposed to $125.So I guess I'll see.

[Irascible]

Bi Bear,
I went back to the web sight to look at the windage adjustment. It looks a little strange and not too strong. What do you think?

[bigbear]

Tried out the sight at the range today. Works great. Easy to adjust,just needs a small screwdriver for windage. Shot 30rds 30'06 in my Browning 1895, 2" groups at 100meters till the snow started to fall and the light started to go. I think it will be just fine for my needs, practical adjustable sight for hunting out to 200 and more often just fooling around with loads, maybe try cast bullets. Had to have sight all the down to bring point of impact down to bull with 6 o'clock hold. I seem to have to do this with many of my receiver sights too, so may be my body habitus and holding style?

[Nueces]

Thanks for the report, bigbear. Would you mind posting your experience with mounting the sight? I'm jonesin' for one for the '86 SRC.

Mark

[bigbear]

I had my gunsmith do it. You have to replace the screw on the receiver with a slightly larger one, so rifle has to hace original screw hole drilled and tapped to replace existing screw with a slightly larger diameter screw, that's it.I am told same thing has to be done with the more costly Hngarian replica, I don't know about the original.

[Irascible]

Thanks guys, I think I'll have to get one before the Caribou hunt in September.
Big Bear, I suspect, especially since the same sight fits the 1886, that the makers had heavy bullet, low velocity loads in mind and that the '06 was an imaginative dream when these sights came out. At least we can interchange front sight heights for point of impact. I've got an old 94 with the front sight as part of the barrel so that your lowest adjustment is just that!

[bigbear]

Where are you hunting caribou? I love their racks but the meat doesn't do much for me. U've hunted them in Kujuuak,Quebec (Ungava Bay) and mountain caribou here in B.C. Good luck!

[Irascible]

Northern Quecec with Club Chambeux. This will be my third trip up in 20 years. Went to Alaska 2 years ago and hunted the Mulchatna (sp?) herd. We couldn't find any big bulls, so I came home without. Too much money to ship back the meat without a good rack to go with it. Meat isn't bad from Quebec Caribou. Did have some really bad meat from a Wyoming Antelope last week. Even hidden in Chili it had a too strong taste of sage. The wife took a spoonful and almost gagged.

[bigbear]

Take good rain gear,good wet condition footwear, fishing tackle if you have the space, range finder, also reading materials (possible weather delays) enjoy:drinks:

[scrapcan]

Irascible,

Soak the goat in milk and them dump the milk out. That will help with the strong flavor of the speed goat. Then on the other hand somepeople just do not like the sweet smell of sage, thats ok more for those of us that do. Maybe you have to grow up on it.

On the sight, which hole needs to be opened up? I sthis only for new rifles or do the old rifles also have to have hole tapped?

[bigbear]

On the left side of the receiver toward the front there is a large screw, that it the one that needs enlarging.

[Irascible]

According to their web sight, the Browning 1895s use a metric thread. Providence supplies a tap to run into the hole to change it to the original Winchester threads which they supply. Take a look at their web sight, it will explain it.

[Irascible]

Good tip on the Antelope and milk. Kind of rough with the ground meat, but I will try it on the other cuts.

[scrapcan]

Irascible,

It will work with ground meat also. just let it marinade and then squeeze the milk out of the meat before you use it. Make sure you throw the milk out though as it takes up alot of the gamey taste. Do not make gravy out of the soaking milk unless you really like the antelope gamey taste.


On the issue of the Model 21 sight,
As to the hole that needs enlarged. I have a good friend that has a n original win95 in 30-40 and he would like to try this sight. Am I correct in that the parts supplied witht hte sight are for the original? Do you ahve to drill and tap a second hole for the pivot or is it already in place?

[muskeg13]

The Providence Model 21 was not available when I needed a receiver sight. In keeping with nostalgia, I didn't want to go with one of the more modern receiver sights, as I did on my M1886, so I put one of the Ukrainian Model 38 sights from Buffalo Arms on my Japanese (.405) M1895. http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,236.html

After waiting over a year and spending so much, I was not pleased with with the sight, but decided to keep it. I have an original M38 on a real Winchester 1895 carbine to make a close comparison to. The Ukrainian sight was not designed properly. This may have changed, maybe due in part to my complaint, but I don't know if Buffalo did anything at all to correct the problems I noted. They should, for the amount of money they charge for these sights..$250 each!

In addition to the differences in the thread sizes of the mounting screws between metric and original screws, there were two additional problems with the Ukrainian sight.

First, there is a long set screw that runs down from the bridge of the sight to make contact with the top of the left side of the receiver. I suppose this is to relieve stress on the mounting and elevation adjustment screws, and it makes the sight less likely to move down inadvertently. Anyway, the set screw on the Ukrainian sight was positioned incorrectly so that it came down right over the bolt! I had to drill/tap and move this screw so it wouldn't interfere with bolt movement.

The second problem is that the sight bridge/wing that supports the aperature and the windage mechanism was too short. It did not extend far enough across the right of the receiver for the windage knob to clear the right side of the receiver (as the real/original M38 does). I'm lucky in that with my body positioning and the loads I shoot, I need quite a bit of elevation, so the windage knob is high enough not to come into contact with the receiver.

In short, the Ukrainian M38 wasn't right, but I was able to get it to work. There is probably a better option available now.

[Dale53]

Irascible;
Many years ago, the University of Wyoming (as I remember) did a serious study on Antelope meat. They discovered that the most important thing to do to maximize meat quality was to IMMEDIATELY skin the animal. The heavy sage taste was mostly caused by failure to skin promptly that allowed "sage transfer" to the meat (after the animal is dead). That may be counter to some folks beliefs. I believe it. A couple of friends went antelope hunting, followed the advice and had the meat processed near where they shot the animals. The meat was "blister packed" (vacuum) with statements to the effect that it would be good in a zero degree freezer for as much as five years.

The friend gave me several packages of the meat. The meat was fine with NO sage or other disagreeable taste or smell. Then, almost five years later, I discovered a package of the meat that I had "lost" in the freezer. I thought, "What the hay" time to check out the claims. The meat was NOT freezer burned and was palatable. Vacuum packaging really DOES work!

Just some food for thought...

[scrapcan]

Dale you are correct in the statements about proper and quick dressing of the speed goat. It is also interesting to note that antelope have an adrenal gland and once that bad dude is in gear and producing adrenalin, the meat can get pretty tasty. It also helps if you can get the meat cooled out quickly. I ate antelope and deer during six years of college and my first year of marriage. I could only get one deer license but multiple antelope licenses (one year I had 1 buck and 5 doe/fawn tags), needless to say I ate more speedgoat than deer. After eating nothing but speedgoat our first winter that we were married, I am not sure I could get my wife to eat it on a regular basis any longer. When I was young my uncles would always say that the out of state hunters should have to take a pickup load of speed goats if they come to hunt, they ate enough of them that they did not like them and felt that that would also stop or help prevent return trips by those hunters. As you can tell they were not real keen on lots of out of state hunters.

Another bit of trivia for some who may want to hunt and then do a head or shoulder mount, do not shoot the animal in the neck. The hair will slip and you will be looking for a cape to use for the mount, this is a good reason to also get an additional doe tag if you come very far for a hunt. I tend to like the european mount with not hide or hair so it is not a big problem for me.

They are a pretty unique animal and if I remember correctly about 80-90 percent of the population of pronghorn antelope reside in Wyoming (actually in a radius of 150 miles center on Casper, WY which is coverss much the state anyway).

Just a bit of trivia and please correct anything that I may have wrongly expressed.

[scrapcan]

A follow up on the providence tool model 21 sight. My good friend and coworker showed me the one he bought to put on his rifle this morning. It looks to be well built. He is in a quandry as to if he wants to intall the new sight on the old weathered rifle. He feels that it will harm the value. I am of the opinion that in another 30 - 100 years nobody will know the difference and if it makes it more desireable to him as a shooter then he should install it. These old girls were built to be used and taken care of not to be worried if their new dress made them look out of place.

Once he decides to install or not I will post a followup. The follow up may be that he wants to sell it, just don't know at this time.

[scrapcan]

here is a link to the Cooperative Extension Service Bulletin on proper care and dressign of antelope carcass

http://ces.uwyo.edu/PUBS/B565R.pdf

there are some other pubs on wild game on the CES pubs site under
Natural & Renewable Resources Publications

Wild Game Preparation & Cooking

The following is a list of the publications matching your search criteria. All publications are in Adobe Acrobat format and require Acrobat Reader to view and print.

B-513R - Aging Big Game
B-565R - The Pronghorn Antelope Carcass
B-589R - The Mule Deer Carcass
B-594R - The Elk Carcass
B-613R - You and Your Wild Game Cookbook
B-884R - Skinning and Boning Big Game
B-920R - Nutritional Content of Game Meat
B-963 - Waterfowl: After the Hunt

[carpetman]

I killed one antelope and it was gamey. Much more so than even a caribou. My son in law that use to live in Utah killed a few and made jerky and it was good.

[bigbear]

I've used the providence sight several times at the range, works great. simple, sturdy and so far no change in zero.