Lee c309-113 seat depth for 30-06

[Mauser48]

I have some of the lee c309-113 bullets that a kind user here sent me to try in 30-30. Well I ended up deciding I didn't really have a use for 30-30 so I sold the rifle. I would still like to use these bullets in my 1903-A3 for fun. I want to use 700x powder. From what I have seen about 10 grains is a good load. The thing I cannot seem to fund is a seating depth. I have been told just seat it to the top crimp groove but I would like an exact measurement to go off of. People have also told me to seat the bullet in a fired case and put it in the rifle. I tried that several times with no luck, the bullet was just getting stuck in the lands. Also, do I need to expand the case mouths? I don't have a die to do that. Anyone who has a measurement of the seating depth would be greatly appreciated. Im also not going for velocity over about 1450 fps. Thanks guys!

[Lever-man]

Seated to the top crimp grove on the 06 will be short of over length for that cartridge so it should not be hanging up on the lands the flat nose may be hanging up where it inters the barrel.

[Mauser48]

Bump for some advice

[Yodogsandman]

Your seating depth will be different from other members. Every rifle will be a little bit different from each other. That was good advise to seat the boolit in an empty, fired case. You already know that the boolit hits the lands hard at a certain seating depth. Just keep seating the boolit deeper and deeper into the case until it doesn't get jammed so tightly into the lands. If you have a good amount of the boolit body in the case neck, you might be good to go. Try a few shots with that setting with starting loads and if you like it, you're done.

I have no experience with 700X powder in a 30-06. Cross reference the load in multiple published sources prior to loading it up for your safety. Start at the STARTING loads until you're comfortable to increase the powder safely. You can use any 115gr boolit load listed with the STARTING load.

An expander die is preferred to slightly bell the mouth of your case to just over the boolit diameter. I normally try to seat the boolit by hand in the case up to 3/4 to all the way up the gas check, so maybe 1/32" to 1/16" into the case mouth. Any expander is better than none but, I like the Lyman "M" dies because they leave a step to set the boolit on. I would use a 30 cal, long "M" die. Each caster will have their own preferences, though. NOE has custom sized expander studs that fit onto a Lee universal expander body that I would use if I didn't already have the Lymans'. In a pinch, a set of needle nosed pliers spun in the case mouth with just enough pressure to flair the mouth is useful. I've also used a prick punch for this before, too.

[rockrat]

I would take a boolit and drop it into the chamber, followed by a sized/unprimed case and start to close the bolt , holding pressure on the bolt so the case is against the boolit. Take a cleaning rod, run it down the muzzle, and where it stops, make a mark. Then take out the case and boolit and close the bolt. run the cleaning rod down against the bolt, and make a mark. Measure the distance between the marks. that is your max. overall length with that boolit

[Mauser48]

I would take a boolit and drop it into the chamber, followed by a sized/unprimed case and start to close the bolt , holding pressure on the bolt so the case is against the boolit. Take a cleaning rod, run it down the muzzle, and where it stops, make a mark. Then take out the case and boolit and close the bolt. run the cleaning rod down against the bolt, and make a mark. Measure the distance between the marks. that is your max. overall length with that boolit


Thanks a lot! This should work great! I have other calibers this would be great for too. This is what I was looking for!

[rsrocket1]

I've found that the Lee 309 molds that I have (C309-113-F, C309-170-F and C309-200-R) all have the same base from 0 to 0.3"
140498

So I seat all bullets at that depth and make my Quickload estimations off that SD.
This puts the front of the wide portion of the bullet right into the throat of my Remington 788 .308 and the bullets are all lined up perfectly. If the throat of your rifle is right at 0.309" or 0.308" you can get proper alignment of the bullet in the barrel even without needing a true bore riding bullet or worrying about excessive jump to the lands.

[Mauser48]

Once I determine my max OAL how far should I seat them off the lands?

[Yodogsandman]

That will be determined by your own testing at different O.A.L.'s for the best accuracy in your rifle. Try backing it off .010" at a time and watch for your groups to tighten up. I like to keep at least a full boolit diameter length (.309") of the boolit shank in the case neck. I also don't like to seat the GC below the junction of the case neck and shoulder, if I can help it.

[Mauser48]

I seated them to 2.870 on top of 10.0 grains of 700x. Thanks for the help guys! If anyone has done this before would this load be position sensitive?

[lotech]

Experiment with this as OALs from one rifle to another may vary considerably. You will probably find best accuracy with the bullet seated to where it slightly engraves, though obviously you need enough bullet in the neck to hold it in place. Short, light bullets often lack the accuracy of long, heavy bullets. Regardless, good luck with your project.

[Mauser48]

Experiment with this as OALs from one rifle to another may vary considerably. You will probably find best accuracy with the bullet seated to where it slightly engraves, though obviously you need enough bullet in the neck to hold it in place. Short, light bullets often lack the accuracy of long, heavy bullets. Regardless, good luck with your project.

Thanks. I will post pics of targets next time I go to the range.

[Gunnut 45/454]

When I had my Savage Bolt gun in '06 it would shoot the 113gr very well 10 gr of reddot . Excellent load for target and small critters up too yotes. Now my Rem 7400 will not cycle them so they are reserved for my 30-30.

[Mauser48]

146542

Thanks for everyones help and the user that sent these bullets to me! Here is my 5 shot group at about 35 yards today. They will definitely group I just need to work on doing my part!

[MT Gianni]

I would suspect the 113 fp will never reach the lands in a common 06 throat.

[Mauser48]

I would suspect the 113 fp will never reach the lands in a common 06 throat.

I got it to touch the lands then seated it back about 30 thousands. Its a good little round!

[Mauser48]

147050

Well I loaded up 50 rounds yesterday with the same load and this was my best group so far. I shot 5 5 shot groups at 35 yards. This was the fourth group. The accuracy got better as the barrel started to foul out. It is a 0.472 inch group from my 1903-A3 with iron sights in standard military form. The muzzle gauges 0. All group were pretty darn good. Nothing over 1.5 inches. They were all about an inch or under except for the first group which was about 1.5 inches. I want to thank Bzcraig for sending me these boolits to try. I think im going to start casting myself now.

[UBER7MM]

Looks like a winner there!

[35remington]

9 grains 700x got 1550 with my Savage 06 and excellent average accuracy of near 0.6" at fifty yards. Excellent load with the C113F. My rifle allows the front band out of the case approximating crimp groove location.

This load or with another powder giving same velocities rode in my pocket when hunting. Did a lot of small game and critter hunting with it. Very useful power level. Hard bullets less damaging on small game at this speed. Velocity increases see unacceptable damage on small game even if bullet is hard.

[Mauser48]

9 grains 700x got 1550 with my Savage 06 and excellent average accuracy of near 0.6" at fifty yards. Excellent load with the C113F. My rifle allows the front band out of the case approximating crimp groove location.

This load or with another powder giving same velocities rode in my pocket when hunting. Did a lot of small game and critter hunting with it. Very useful power level. Hard bullets less damaging on small game at this speed. Velocity increases see unacceptable damage on small game even if bullet is hard.

Thanks for the info. I need to grt some jackrabbits with it now. Do you water drop your bullets?

[35remington]

Don't have to. For awhile I used straight Lino because I had a lot of it and at that speed it worked well on small game. Water drop if you don't want the bullet to upset a little on impact at the closer ranges.

[Mauser48]

I noticed when I was looking at the brass today that the primers backed out about 5-10 thousands. The brass was previously fired about 3 times to m2 ball spec. Was it worn out brass or is my powder charge a little high? Im using winchester primers so I think that is why. I was other people using all the way up to 13 grains and they didn't have any high pressure signs.

[Thumbcocker]

You might try just decapping and flaring the case with no sizing or shoulder set back. I run plinker boolits at .311 over 7 grains of any fast powder, usually red dot, in .06.

[rsrocket1]

I noticed when I was looking at the brass today that the primers backed out about 5-10 thousands. The brass was previously fired about 3 times to m2 ball spec. Was it worn out brass or is my powder charge a little high? Im using winchester primers so I think that is why. I was other people using all the way up to 13 grains and they didn't have any high pressure signs.
Nah, the charge is way below what the cartridge expects. When the primer goes off, it drives itself out of the pocket a little bit. Then when the main charge goes off, there is usually enough pressure to drive the case back against the bolt and that drives the primer back into the pocket. If you want to convince yourself, shoot a couple of empty primed cases. You'll really see the effects in a revolver. In fact, the primer could back out far enough to impede the cylinder rotation.

[Mauser48]

Nah, the charge is way below what the cartridge expects. When the primer goes off, it drives itself out of the pocket a little bit. Then when the main charge goes off, there is usually enough pressure to drive the case back against the bolt and that drives the primer back into the pocket. If you want to convince yourself, shoot a couple of empty primed cases. You'll really see the effects in a revolver. In fact, the primer could back out far enough to impede the cylinder rotation.

How come they don't back out with my m2 ball ammo that is at a higher pressure?

[rsrocket1]

The high pressure swells up the brass casing to occupy the entire chamber. Usually it is beyond the elastic limit of the brass. That's why you have to resize the brass after you shoot it to bring it back to factory specs. If the brass is to be used in the same gun, you only need to neck size the case unless the body length has grown too much in which case you need to bump the shoulder back a bit.