Cast boolit bear hunt.

[Muskyhunter1]

I am cranked. I have got two baits out and I checked one yesterday and it is being hit.

My 375 Win (Marlin 375S) is shooting tacks (again thanks to the folks on this forum). On 30th May my hunting buddy is coming up for a week of bear hunting, fishing, eating Italian food and of course homemade wine. I have 2 weeks off unless the Boss (or Wife) changes things on me..........? Got to let my Buddy shoot first but after that, I hope to let the 250 Ranchdog cast boolite do its thing.

Anybody else out there doing a spring bear hunt this year? If so good luck and I will keep you posted.

Cheers,

[smoked turkey]

Muskyhunter1 sounds like things are heating up for your upcoming spring bear hunt. I wish you good hunting with your buddy and your 375 Win. Sounds like you are going to have a blast. Your buddy is lucky to have you as a friend. I just returned from New Brunswick where I shot a nice 260 pound black bear with my 35 Whelen. I am planning to sit down and do a write up in a few days with a few details and pictures for any 35 Whelen fans. Keep us posted.

[Djones]

I am jealous you guys are hunting!

good luck and keep us posted on your adventure.

David

[RugerFan]

I saw this rascal last week, but obviously wouldn't be sporting (or legal) to shoot. I hope to get out in my boat in Prince William Sound this weekend in search for a bear.

Good luck Muskyhunter1

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l449/wolf913/442cfc8e-323b-414f-8018-66df995e2cc4_zps1y2f0tvc.jpg (http://s331.photobucket.com/user/wolf913/media/442cfc8e-323b-414f-8018-66df995e2cc4_zps1y2f0tvc.jpg.html)

[Muskyhunter1]

Thanks Lads. My friend has always been good to me. This year he put me onto two big spring gobblers. It is nice to return the favor. Smoked Turkey saw your post about your bear. Awesome and good work. That is a nice Bruin. They make amazing sausage for the BBQ.

I will report back.

Cheers,

[sixshot]

Spring bear hunting is about as fun as it gets. Two of my grandson's just got spring bears here in Idaho, I got to watch the whole show. It was spot & stalk so I could see everything, right up to the shot. Saw 12 bears in 4 days.

Dick

[utahtrapper]

Spring bear hunting is about as fun as it gets. Two of my grandson's just got spring bears here in Idaho, I got to watch the whole show. It was spot & stalk so I could see everything, right up to the shot. Saw 12 bears in 4 days.

Dick
That is so awesome congrats sir.

[Muskyhunter1]

Well folks my week is over and had a great time. My buddy got his little bear the first night with a jacket load out of his 30 06 and was real happy. We did some fishing and got some nice fish. Will post the pics as soon as I get them.

My luck on the other hand was a real bummer. I shot a huge bear right in the center of the chest with my 250 grain Ranchdog (very flat meplat) at 30 yards. I saw the wound on his chest after the boolite hit. The boolite hit right in the boiler room as the bear walked past a big tree. The bear spun and ran into the bush about a 100 yards and was chewing branches and then all went quiet. No death ball, not good.............:cry::cry::cry:

It was getting dark in the thick brush so I figured I would return first thing in the morning. The next day I found my bullet did not exit, I tracked up into the bush and found blood but it was only on the entrance side. We tracked the bear for two and half hours till the trail dried up. I felt bad as I hate wounding an animal.

Is it possible that the bullet blew up on entry and never entered the chest cavity? The boolites were cast from wheel weights and were leaving the 375 Winchester allegedly at 1922 fps. I heard the bullet thump hard. Last year I used the identical bullet in the 38 55 at about 1400 fps and had a complete pass thru on a much smaller bear at 10 yards. It dropped the bear in its tracks.

The season is over on the 15th June so if I get out again I think I will dig out my trusty 270 as I don't want to wound anything more.

I need to test those bullets and how they perform at that speed better before taking them hunting again.

Has anybody ever had a similar situation like this?

[smoked turkey]

That is a real bummer alright. I am surprised that you got the results you reported. I know a 250 grain boolit with a big meplat will do the job. I think your velocity is good too at approximately 1900'/s. I did a little expansion/penetration testing on my load prior to my bear hunt with my 35 Whelen. I was using ww as well and I did find premature break-up of the boolit and lack of adequate penetration into wet paper I had arranged for approximately 24" of the wet media. I ended up testing a 50/50 mix of ww/lead and added about 1.5% tin to the mix. I got excellent penetration and expansion with much better boolit weight retention on my Lyman 3589 293 grain boolit. I believe if you check into it that it has been proven time and time again that the 50/50 mix is the way to go for a hunting boolit. I made a double lung shot at about 60 yards broad side. It was a pass through shot that left a 1.5" hole on the off side for what I call perfect boolit performance. The bear went about 30 yards after the shot. I would encourage you to give the 375 Win another try with the 50/50 mix. Do your own testing and I think you will determine that it will be a winner.

[waksupi]

I figure you shot through part of the tree, then hit the bear. That bullet would have done the job if properly placed. Admit you blew the shot, and don't blame the bullet. Just the hard sad facts of life. I've shot too much game with a similar bullet in a .358 Win to buy the story as stated. No, it did NOT blow up on entry.

[Wayne Smith]

When the bear is on all 4's a center chest shot can miss the heart and go between the lungs, non fatal shot. Unusual but possible. Sorry you lost the bear.

[Muskyhunter1]

That is a real bummer alright. I am surprised that you got the results you reported. I know a 250 grain boolit with a big meplat will do the job. I think your velocity is good too at approximately 1900'/s. I did a little expansion/penetration testing on my load prior to my bear hunt with my 35 Whelen. I was using ww as well and I did find premature break-up of the boolit and lack of adequate penetration into wet paper I had arranged for approximately 24" of the wet media. I ended up testing a 50/50 mix of ww/lead and added about 1.5% tin to the mix. I got excellent penetration and expansion with much better boolit weight retention on my Lyman 3589 293 grain boolit. I believe if you check into it that it has been proven time and time again that the 50/50 mix is the way to go for a hunting boolit. I made a double lung shot at about 60 yards broad side. It was a pass through shot that left a 1.5" hole on the off side for what I call perfect boolit performance. The bear went about 30 yards after the shot. I would encourage you to give the 375 Win another try with the 50/50 mix. Do your own testing and I think you will determine that it will be a winner.

Smoked Turkey and Wayne Smith - Thanks for the great advice. I will not stop using cast boolites out of my 375 Win but i believe you are correct and i need to work on my alloy. As God was my Witness, it was truly a perfect hit and I just can't explained what happened. It all comes down to terminal ballistics. What did the bullet do after it hit as Wayne pointed out. I have been hunting and guiding bears for more years than I care to say and that bear should have went down.

There were no trees in front of the bear just a huge dead Poplar behind that would have shown spatter from the exit wound. The only blood trail was on the entry side. This was evident on the ground and on newly grown leaves to support the height of the wound. The boolite DID not exit.

I have another smaller bear (150 lb) coming into the bait too but I only had my one rifle at camp this trip. Ethically I did not hunt another bear with that bullet now because I dont want that to happen again. I was hoping if there was a problem with my load/alloy others and I could learn to prevent it from happening again.

waksupi - I guess you are right I simply must have blown the shot. End of discussion.

[outdoorfan]

Well folks my week is over and had a great time. My buddy got his little bear the first night with a jacket load out of his 30 06 and was real happy. We did some fishing and got some nice fish. Will post the pics as soon as I get them.

My luck on the other hand was a real bummer. I shot a huge bear right in the center of the chest with my 250 grain Ranchdog (very flat meplat) at 30 yards. I saw the wound on his chest after the boolite hit. The boolite hit right in the boiler room as the bear walked past a big tree. The bear spun and ran into the bush about a 100 yards and was chewing branches and then all went quiet. No death ball, not good.............:cry::cry::cry:

It was getting dark in the thick brush so I figured I would return first thing in the morning. The next day I found my bullet did not exit, I tracked up into the bush and found blood but it was only on the entrance side. We tracked the bear for two and half hours till the trail dried up. I felt bad as I hate wounding an animal.

Is it possible that the bullet blew up on entry and never entered the chest cavity? The boolites were cast from wheel weights and were leaving the 375 Winchester allegedly at 1922 fps. I heard the bullet thump hard. Last year I used the identical bullet in the 38 55 at about 1400 fps and had a complete pass thru on a much smaller bear at 10 yards. It dropped the bear in its tracks.

The season is over on the 15th June so if I get out again I think I will dig out my trusty 270 as I don't want to wound anything more.

I need to test those bullets and how they perform at that speed better before taking them hunting again.

Has anybody ever had a similar situation like this?


I'm sorry to hear about the lost bear. I know how that feels. Question, was the wheel weight alloy you were using air cooled or waterdropped? Also, do you know what bhn they were/are?

[MT Chambers]

It is possible for that alloy to shatter due to it being brittle, if shooting at lower vel. I would add pure lead and tin to your mix. If shooting at 1900 fps, I would add Lino. and tin.

[waksupi]

It is possible for that alloy to shatter due to it being brittle, if shooting at lower vel. I would add pure lead and tin to your mix. If shooting at 1900 fps, I would add Lino. and tin.

Something else happened here, though. Over the years, I have shot a lot of game of all sizes with all hardness ranges from dead soft (bad idea) to hardened projectiles up to 28 Bn. All have fully penetrated, no surface blow ups, which I consider impossible with a cast bullet.

[Muskyhunter1]

Thanks Outdoor fan. I air cooled my WW boolites but I am not sure what bhn they were. A fellow caster in my town has one of those Lee Hardness Testers. I will see if I can borrow it from him and see where it is at as far as bhn.

Mt Chambers I agree I need to do some penetration tests and see if they are breaking up. I am shooting a microgroove barrel that slugs at .3775. The boolites are sized to .381 dia with a GC. It is an Accurate Mold Ranchdog boolite design (very large meplat) that drops out of the mold at .382 with WW. I do get amazing accuracy with it.

I was wondering if that swagging effect on the boolite as it squeezes down the bore may do something to the integrity of the metal composition. Just a thought............? I shoot a metal gong with them and they turn to powder at 100 yards. Your are lucky to find the GC. I worked my load up and the chamber pressures are all good.

waksupi - I got to agree with you my friend - something happened. It was a big bear (not big enough to stop a bullet) but I find it hard if not impossible to believe that a 250 grain slug at 1900+ fps fired from 30 feet did not exit. It could have been the worse shot possible, paunch, ham, neck whatever but it should have exited. If I hit bone the bear would have went down or responded accordingly. I saw were it hit the chest - can't figure it.

Went out last night around home. Saw a little fellow (about 100 lbs) three times but just could not get a good shot off as I wanted it to be a perfect broadside shot. The bugs were incredible and then it began to rain heavy so I headed for the truck. Maybe tonight as it will be my last kick at the cat as I got to go back to work and a long list of domestic chores await me.

[outdoorfan]

Actually, I'm not overly surprised that you seemed to have bullet failure of some sort. Here's why. As Bass Ackwards would say, "Everything can work, and everything can fail.". It depends how you use it that determines that window of success. People who like soft bullets because they work so well still have to be careful about maximum strike velocity. Same for the guys who like hard bullets, as they have a range to work within, as well.

I think your "potential" problem is that your bullet has a big meplat (don't all RD designs have big meplats?), you were using a softish alloy, the bullet was a tad low in sectional density, strike velocity was high, and the the bear was "large".

How big would you say this bear was? They can be quite dense in structure.

Did you have any tin in your alloy? If not, and if you are using common ww's of today, then I doubt those boolits are over 11-12 bhn. Tin also helps with the malleability of the alloy.

I agree with Smoked Turkey in that you need to do some penetration testing to assimilate minimum and maximum ranges that this bullet needs to work within, or you probably need to make it a little harder (but not brittle) for the big stuff. Btw, your bullet and alloy at 1400-1600 fps will penetrate wonderfully. I think you've simply asked too much of the components that you're using on a bigger bear at close strike range (higher velocity).

Btw, I don't think the swaging down of your bullet has any effect on that outcome.

[outdoorfan]

Just a quick add-on to my previous post.

I have a booklet guide for using cast bullets, written by Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets. In it he gives an example of too soft an alloy for strike velocity. He was using a 30-30 with 173 gr cast at (I think) 2100-2200 fps. Bullets were 12 bhn. He hit a smallish muley spike buck at 40 yards. The bullet flattened out against the deer's spine. A quick second shot settled the matter, but that first shot failed. He then upped the bhn to 16 and got wonderful results at that speed and weight density.

So, yes, a lack of penetration with softish wheel weight alloy can happen if the other variables in play are also pushing the limits.

[white eagle]

375 is by no means a small bore
your boolit should have done the job famously
I suspect that you had interference such as Waksupi said
it my not have been a tree it could have been a small branch just enough to deflect
the projectiles path and give it new direction
I have shot at animals close and missed because of unseen obsticles
loosing an animal is never a good outcome in a hunt however their will to live is phenominal
so your bear may not be dead in the woods but recovering and wiser

[mattd]

It was a big bear (not big enough to stop a bullet) but I find it hard if not impossible to believe that a 250 grain slug at 1900+ fps fired from 30 feet did not exit. It could have been the worse shot possible, paunch, ham, neck whatever but it should have exited. If I hit bone the bear would have went down or responded accordingly. I saw were it hit the chest - can't figure it.


I shot a big doe this past year at 25y w the NOE 311299 HP out of my 3006 at ~1950fps. cast w 75ww/25pure. she was barely quartering to. I recovered her but hit the shoulder blade, clearly dumped a bunch of energy, and found a perfectly expanded bullet in the rear ham. Sometimes they don't always fly straight after impact. Coulda deflected upwards and out high, which might not bleed.

[TXGunNut]

Does sound like a boolit failure but until you recover the critter it's anybody's guess, sorry you lost a nice bear. Expansion testing sounds like a good idea. I like a heat treated boolit with a bit of antimony for toughness but the closest thing to a bear around here is a big hog so I can't say what it takes to kill a bear. I don't know if HT'ing is necessary at your 375's velocity but my 375449's wear GC's. I have RD moulds for many other calibers and love the "smackdown" effect of his designs.
I load and cast for the 38-55 and the 375 Win. One conclusion I came to early on was that I needed to treat them as two totally different cartridges. It doesn't hurt that mine have different bore sizes but my 38-55 and 375 Win loads use different boolits, powders and cases. Sometimes I even load the 38-55 with BP.
OTOH, some critters just take more killing than others and a bear has a reputation for tenacity. I hope you'll regain confidence in that rifle and boolit soon, I can think of few better for your hunting situation.

[sharpsguy]

Too much impact velocity caused the bullet failure. Hitting them faster usually means less penetration, not more. Slow it down to 1500 fps and try again. You'll be surprised.

[sw282]

Sorry.. Bad spelling.

[sw282]

Sorry for your loss Musky...Might l suggest locating a trail dog with a good nose to help cover such losses..l saw one save a trophy some years back near Coudersport in Potter County PA..

[Muskyhunter1]

Thanks again Lads for all the great feedback. As I mentioned in my last post I was going to go out and hunt one more night before I had to go back to work.

Because of my concern about my bullet performance I hated to, but (didn't want to wound another animals) I took my old reliable 270 with those J-slugs - sorry. I am not finished hunting with my 375 Win but until I am satisfied with some expansion tests, I will not use that bullet to hunt right now. I went out that night and only saw one bear so I nailed it thru the chest from about 30 yards. It only ran about 60 yards down a ravine to a creek bottom and died. It was a dry sow with a white patch and an amazing coat. It will be a nice meat bear and now I've done my part to help cut down on the bear population. Sorry the picture is no hell as I was by myself. It was getting dark, the bugs were bad and there was nobody with me to take my picture anyway.

142022

It was likely about 150 lbs on the paw so not too big to handle by oneself. As I said it had a really nice white patch on the chest - something not too common around here.

142023

Here is the small boar my buddy got. He was pretty happy and that is what it is all about. Both the bears will be made in sausages for the BBQ.

142024

Here is a pic of me with one of the many Trout, Walleye, Northern Pike, etc we caught during the week.

142025

With both the Spring Bear and Turkey season over, I guess it is now time to concentrate of refining my cast load in my 375 Win and I will hopefully give it a test during the fall hunt on bear again.

This is a trail camera pic of the bear just behind my camp from about 4 years ago. This is the bear I believe I hit with the cast boolite. He was a nice bear then as compared to a the barrel. If it is the same bear he was a good sized one for sure. Hope he survives in not too much pain.

142027

These are the Accurate Mold 250 Ranchdog GC sized at .381 boolite I was using in my 375 Win this year.

142028

Here is the entrance wound I got with my 38-55 on a bear last year that was travelling about 1543 fps. It was being pushed down a .380 bore and sized to .381 too. I hit the bear at 10 yards and it went clean thru and dropped the bear in it's tracks.

142030

Thanks for all the valuable feedback on my bullet issues. I have taken it all to heart. I will keep you posted on my bullet testing - hardness and expansion testing.

Cheers,

Musky

[helice]

This was a really fine write-up. It is rare (for me) to hear of hunting failures. Most folks don't much want to talk about failures. By sharing this with us we all learn. I'm grateful for your posts. Congratulations on filling your tag - nice bear. Thanks for the pictures too.

[pls1911]

Sorry for the lost critter.
That bullet at that velocity should not have shattered. In 30 years I've never had a bullet blow up... I've had all sorts configuration upon recovery though, even mushrooming and shedding petals almost clear down to the gas check.
How can I say this gently?
Shoulder shot at the spine junction "T"... it will anchor anything, punching through both shoulders
and nicking the spine.... DRT. and you should get full pass through as well.
It's the only shot I take or I pass.

[TXGunNut]

We learn from failures, moreso than from successes. Thanks for sharing, this way we all learn.

[outdoorfan]

I'm pretty sure it didn't shatter. Flatten out too much so that it didn't penetrate. Yes, that is entirely possible.

[Muskyhunter1]

Sorry Folks summer is really busy for me as I have switched jobs for a couple of months. I did find a lead hardness tester, a chronograph and got a plan to test the bullet expansion. Once things quiet down this fall I will get the testing done and get the results posted.

Have a great summer.

[Pinsnscrews]

It may seem odd, but is it possible your bullet didn't fail at all and someone else recovered the bear before you could make it back out?

[Prodigal Son]

Thanks for sharing as I am about to embark on my own black bear hunt to Newfoundland with a 38/55! Seeing the latter pictures of a carcass shot by a 38/55 at 1549 fps is just about what I'm shooting! Wish me luck! Congrats on your bear!