Whitney 2nd model Rolling block

[velocette]

The rifle has arrived back from the gunsmith that relined the barrel. It looks very nice and shiny inside and almost impossible to
tell that it has been re-lined from the outside. So far, the barrel is re-lined and the wood stock and foregrip both have been re-finished nicely.
It is ready to be test fired and enjoyed for a while as I save up for a reproduction 30" Malcolm scope.
My next mechanical objective is to improve the appearance of some of the parts, namely the action screws which have been assaulted and buggered by
Bubba and a few of his descendants. Several of them have been essentially destroyed and while functional, they insult my sense of esthetics. they are also
of a strange thread. Roughly 1/4 x 27 or something near that, but NOT 1/4 28, (that would be too easy) I do not have a lathe nor access to one so I cannot make 'em myself.
Any suggestions or advice?

[Bent Ramrod]

You need to find a machinist or gunsmith and pay him to make replacements. Unless, of course, you are incredibly lucky and find some viable spares at Dixie Gun Works or Gun Parts, Inc.

Arms factories used bastard threads and sizes because their engineers thought these were perfect for the application they were designing for. Also, in order to maintain control of the spare parts situation, both for revenue and as a relief from lawsuits from those who replace gun parts with nails and stove bolts.

Your machinist will measure the holes, screws and threads and should be able to make better-fitting parts out of stronger alloys than the originals were. These will be less likely to be mangled by careless screwdriver technique.

If you are not heir to a fortune, and seriously contemplate getting into the an-teek shootin' arn hobby, the purchase of a small lathe with screw cutting capability is really not an option. A check on Craig's List for prices of used small lathes after you get the bill for your new screws will enable you to calculate how many of such jobs it will take to amortize your investment.

By the way, do you own a Velocette? Venom, Thruxton or KTT?

[pworley1]

You can sometimes improve the appearance of screw heads by lightly sanding the tops and filing the slots, then re-bluing them.

[velocette]

Bent Ramrod;
A long time ago in a far away place, (New Jersey) I purchased a '56 Velocette Venom which was what was charitably called a "Pile" which is one or more orders of magnitude
worse than a "Basket Case" It had been disassembled and stored for over 10 years near a bag of rocksalt, with predictable results.
A year and a bit more later, I rode the bike in to New York City for the opening of the "Art of the Motorcycle" at the Guggenheim Museum of Art.
The Velo was trailered to New Hampshire's Bike week, Mid Ohio's vintage bike events, Daytona Beach bike week and a few other events. Ultimately, I sold
it to help finance my retirement home in the Gunshine state of Florida. It was a beautiful old Brit Bike that would just about do the ton and handled extremely well but didn't stop as well as it went. On twisty back roads, it humiliated many a modern rice rocket with light weight and good torque.
I keep my driveway oiled down today with a '54 Jaguar XK 120 M Drop Head Coupe. Between that and my firearms they keep me broke.

[Bent Ramrod]

Velocette,

That's a great story! You obviously are no stranger to the trials and tribulations of restoration. And the level of art that used to be a fairly routine part of technology. There are artifacts today that have the design nuances that are there "just for nice," but they don't occur often enough to be taken for granted like in the good old days.

I never saw a Velocette in real life until long after they were out of print, alas.

[enfield]

Try mig welding the head of the screw and then turn, file or sand into shape and put a new slot in it.

[BCRider]

Try a thread gauge to see if it's 26 TPI. If so then it's British Standard Fine or BSF. And if that's the case you can get screws even if it's a bit of a pain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Fine

[kootne]

The thing I would suggest to try first is to peen the head until you get enough metal back to refile the slot. Easy to do, fixes most of them and if it is too far buggered to clean up you are not out anything but 5 or 10 minutes time.

[.22-10-45]

1++ on peening buggered up metal back with small ball peen hammer..probably wont be 100%..if metal is gone, it's gone..but will look alot better, especially after bluing. Brownells sells screw slot files in various thickness. You can experiment to match original finish by either polishing head in lathe or polishing parallel to slot.

[ascast]

Try a thread gauge to see if it's 26 TPI. If so then it's British Standard Fine or BSF. And if that's the case you can get screws even if it's a bit of a pain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Fine


I would guess it is not a MODERN standard

[BCRider]

I would guess it is not a MODERN standard

You're right, it's not. But then neither is the rifle. For the time the rifle was made the British Standard and British Standard Fine threads were one of the few stable and regulated threading systems out there. It's possible that whoever was operating the Whitney plant picked picked the BSF thread size standard as a system that was relatively set and popular for the time.

Looking at the history of thread standards in America shows that at the time period that this rifle would have been made there really wasn't a consistent set of US standards. The National specifications for NC and NF was being hammered out but there would still have been lots of non standard sizes in use. So while I suggested checking for the BSF 26TPI it could also be one of the odd sizes that was swept aside during that time as the US moved to a national standard in the 1860's and 70's. But apparently many of the odd sizes hung on in various industries right to the end of the 19th century and even into the first decade of the 20th century. Even then there was a couple of different domestic thread size standards being used. It wasn't until the arrival of WWI and the need for tighter standardizing of the thread sizes and fits that we got the Unified National standard that gave us the inch sizes that dominated up until the metric system began to take over a good portion of the world's industry.

If it turns out that the screws are actually 1/4-27 then I suspect that one of the home shop guys here could turn up a screw or two on their lathe to get velocette's rifle back up to snuff. But according to the history on thread sizes the early standard systems from Britain did find a receptive home in the US from those looking for some sense to the screw thread confusion that was present at that time. So that's why I suggested that velocette check again to see if it's 26 or 27 TPI.

[velocette]

Gentlemen;
Two things, actually three. First, many thanks for the excellent advice and suggestions. I peened the heads of the offending screws, then re-shaped them with a file and electric drill, then cleaned up the screw slot. Still waiting for the Brownell's Plum Brown to arrive to finish the heads. They look almost original with some scars, but nowhere near what Bubba (and his descendants) left me.
Second, I took it out to my club & put 56 rounds of my handloads (all the brass I had) Front sight is WAY too short, shooting 18" high at 50 yards. Some Devcon will build up the front sight temporarily until I get the $ for a Malcolm scope reproduction.(Original front sight was missing) Groups were about 2" or less with Missouri Bullet Company's 120 gr LFN & an assortment of propellants, FFFg, 777, Unique & Trail Boss, 14 each. The 777 was easily the most energetic, the Trail boss the least, but seemed to yield the best groups.
An enjoyable morning with the fruits of my labors.
Third. A small history of the rifle. My maternal grandfather was a gun collector & had a magnificent collection of flintlock, caplock & early cartridge weapons. Perhaps two dozen various models of cap & ball Colt revolvers & a large group of single shot cartridge rifles, High walls, Low walls, .22 Favorites etc. He spent his vacations traveling around the south buying outdated old "Junk" weapons and his days off at local auction sales looking for old useless firearms ( ! )
Upon his death in the early 50's, his collection was split up among his 6 children. Some of which promptly liquidated the weapons, others displayed them, while yet others just put them in storage, the remaining weapons ultimately divided them up among their children. This rifle was owned by my cousin in NJ. I traded a caplock muzzleloader (one of my rifles from Grandads collection) in fair to poor condition for this rifle, also in fair to poor condition. It now hangs on the wall above my computer, waiting for its next improvement / trip to the range and a scope so I can actually see the targets.

[BCRider]

It's a great feeling to bring something butchered back into looking right, isn't it? Glad you made out OK with the stock screws.

And just when are we going to see pictures of this new family member? Chop chop buddy! :D

[Hooker53]

The feeling you get when you finnaly say, IV done all I can do to it and happy at that point is a great feeling, aint it? Post some photos of this work in progress. Im sure most here would like to see it. I would rather buy a promising project gun and bring back to life and thumb my nose at bubba then spend a wad on a new gun even though, I have I few of that type on my list. Lol. Keep up the good work.

Roy
Hooker53