Best Powder Measure for Unique, Red Dot?

[7x57]

I need to get another measure for my garage loading area. I have a Hornady, but it doesn't work well with small charges of Red Dot or Unique, my most used powders. There is just too much variation with either chamber using charges in the 3 to 6gr range.
What do y'all recommend?

[Petrol & Powder]

Unique is a tough powder to run through a measure. I use a Redding but frankly the design is similar to many other powder measures. I've used different powder measures in the past and you can get decent results but I'm not convinced that one is better than another.
The key differences are the diameter of the powder chamber vs. the length of the chamber for the given load. When throwing small charges of Unique I'm not sure which is better; large diameter with small length or narrow chamber and longer length. My instinct is that with a flake type powder you may be better off with a large/shallow chamber.

In the FWIW category, I can generally get charge weights of Unique from a powder measure close enough in the 7-8 grain range that I don't need to weigh the charges.

[Ben]

7 X 57

I think you'll find that most measures won't throw large flake powders like the two you have mentioned very well.

However, even with minor variations , those powders still shoot well out of my revolvers.

Ben

[bedbugbilly]

Good question

I've been using both Unique and Red Dot to work up loads for 38 Spl. as well as cat sneeze loads for my 8mm Mauser - so the total grain weight is not huge. Right now, I'm at 8.5 gr. of Red Dot under a 130is grain lead boolit in the 8mm. I have a Lee Perfect Powder Measure that I really like for throwing Bulls Eye but I haven't had great luck yet in throwing consistent charges of the Unique or Red Dot out of it. Bear in mind, it may be "me" and not the measure and I still want to play with it more. So, I've been weighing each charge out and since I'm just batch loading sample loadings to try - it's not bad.

I have played quite a bit though with using "dippers" and seem to be able to get fairly consistent grain weight loads for the Unique & Red Dot with practice. Since I'm loading lighter "under max" loads, the + or _ .1 grain wt. I'm getting with the dippers works O.K. for the plinking rounds I'm making. But - the dipper method certainly doesn't speed the process up.

So . . . i'll be interested in the replies as well as I certainly would add another measure to the bench if there is one that works well with the Unique and Red Dot.

[texassako]

You don't mention which Hornady measure, but guessing the current LNL. Are you using the pistol drum or the standard drum? The pistol drums usually work better with small amounts of powder. I have used the fixed rotor type measures mostly(old Pacific and the Lyman Accumeasure), but now have a Saeco with the pistol drum that works great. I bought it after getting to mess around with an RCBS uniflow with the small drum.

[Petrol & Powder]

This is one of those things in which you have to define "adequate". I can throw 10 charges of Unique with a powder measure and 9 of them will weigh the same and 1 will be off by a 1/10 grain. For pistol cartridges that is squarely in the "good enough" range.
Ball powders meter much better than flake type powders and I can get very consistent charge weights with powders like ww231, CFE Pistol, WSF, etc. Partially because of the superior metering qualities of ball powders, I prefer ball powders when loading on a progressive press. Speed of reloading is a big part of the process and by picking a powder that meters well I can help to increase the consistency of the rounds while maintaining a high rate of production.
Even when using a stand alone powder measure and a single stage press, I can still obtain very good results with a powder measure.
Unique is a very useful powder and if I can get fairly consistent charge weights from a powder measure I'm happy with the occasional 1/10 grain deviation. When you're operating far from the maximum pressures and loading handgun cartridges, I don't think there's a safety concern with 1/10 grain deviation from the standard. Add to that the lack practical differences in accuracy of a hand gun round fired at less than 50 yards from a short barreled, hand held gun and I doubt you will be able to tell the difference on the target at 25 yards or less between 6 grains and 5.9 grains.

Perfection is the Enemy of Adequate

[Litl Red 3991]

Not many adjustable measures are going to do well with flake powder when setup for light pistol loads. Flakes settle flat and interlaced on top of each other in the reservoir. When the measure's cavity slides under the reservoir to be filled, the flow of grains around the edge of the opening is anything but clean and unrestricted. The cavity doesn't fill uniformly around the edges. Small charges have more variance than larger ones, which is why flakes work ok for shotgun loads where the weights are significantly more than average pistol loads, and hugely more than mouse fart pistol charges.

Lee came out with their disc measures that have fixed round holes for the cavities. It benefits from the best shape (round) cavities for measuring powders. They also came out with an adjustable powder bar for use in the measure that is based on those discs. The flake powders don't work reliably with either the disc setup or Lee's or Dillon's adjustables when setup for very light weights. You simply can't design adjustable cavities that will uniformly measure any possible charge anyone might think up, so the industry designs for the majority.

We're left with measures that aren't reliable for some things. Throwing some powders in small amounts really should be backed up with some kind of checking of each charge.

They're not going to change the flakes as they're very popular shotgun powders the way they are. It's doubtful there will be some different design in measures that can uniformly drop flakes in small amounts quickly and cheaply. What other options are there?

[Litl Red 3991]

I need to get another measure for my garage loading area. I have a Hornady, but it doesn't work well with small charges of Red Dot or Unique, my most used powders. There is just too much variation with either chamber using charges in the 3 to 6gr range.
What do y'all recommend?

Interesting that no one has offered a light load for Red Dot that is actually inside your 3-6gr range. You might say they're not suggesting any solution for your range.

I've recently tried to work up (more exactly: work down) a target load using a few flake powders. They included the two you mentioned. They were nowhere reliable enough to use on a progressive. Two different auto measures were used, one with 3 different design powder bars. SMALL CHARGES of flake powders are going to be a problem unless they really aren't small or each one is weighed. Looking down into a case on a progressive to check uniformity isn't good enough.

Recommendation? A number of people have suggested mounting a vibrator on the measure. Might be worth trying if you've got to use a powder that doesn't measure safely in the charge amount you require.

[7x57]

My hornady is an older one that has one drum with 2 adjustable inserts. One for pistol is too narrow, the flakes must bridge inside, and charges can vary by several grains. The large insert uses the entire width of the machined out drum, but it is too big for small charges. It works better than the small one, but trying for say a 4.5gr charge I will still end up with some light throws. I was just wondering if there was a better measure out there for the powders I was using.

[7x57]

This is one of those things in which you have to define "adequate". I can throw 10 charges of Unique with a powder measure and 9 of them will weigh the same and 1 will be off by a 1/10 grain. For pistol cartridges that is squarely in the "good enough" range.
Ball powders meter much better than flake type powders and I can get very consistent charge weights with powders like ww231, CFE Pistol, WSF, etc. Partially because of the superior metering qualities of ball powders, I prefer ball powders when loading on a progressive press. Speed of reloading is a big part of the process and by picking a powder that meters well I can help to increase the consistency of the rounds while maintaining a high rate of production.
Even when using a stand alone powder measure and a single stage press, I can still obtain very good results with a powder measure.
Unique is a very useful powder and if I can get fairly consistent charge weights from a powder measure I'm happy with the occasional 1/10 grain deviation. When you're operating far from the maximum pressures and loading handgun cartridges, I don't think there's a safety concern with 1/10 grain deviation from the standard. Add to that the lack practical differences in accuracy of a hand gun round fired at less than 50 yards from a short barreled, hand held gun and I doubt you will be able to tell the difference on the target at 25 yards or less between 6 grains and 5.9 grains.

Perfection is the Enemy of Adequate

I would be happy with 1/10 gr variation! I'm not loading top end, just mid rangd 9mm, 38 special, and 45acp loads.

[Kevin Rohrer]

I have a Hollywood that is extremely accurate with Unique (+-.1gr), and I am willing to bet that a Saeco is, also.

Both can be bought on Ebay for around $75.

Hollywood
139649

[kens]

I have dippers and the Lee AutoDisc that throws powder into the casemouth expander die.
I get good results with both.
With dippers you get very consistant charges by using your very same technique each dip. You have to stroke the dipper through the powder that same each time, if you tap or bump the dipper to settle the flakes, you have to be consistant. I do get good charges with a dipper, with some practice on holding consistancy in your dipping manner. +/- .1 grain is easy to do. and +/- 0.0 is attainable with practice. Besides, if you are expecting +/- 0.0 you are weighting each charge anyway, and thats when you realize how good you can get with a dipper. Most of my dippers are empty cases that I soldered a coat hanger wire handle onto. I trim to length to throw the charge I want.
The Lee AutoDisc I like a lot, fast and easy to use. I found a rythem to get quite accurate for me. I keep the powder hopper approx 1/2 full at all times, I think the weight of the hopper contents somewhat can compress the load going into the measure chamber. I know that if the hopper is close to empty, the last few charges are a tad light.
I also do a 'false stroke' with the press, that is I fake a stroke and this settles powder in the charge chamber, then I take a full cycle stroke. Im getting very consistant charges.
For the guys having trouble with their measure consistant, try to tap or bump the measure to settle powder, to get a more consistant powder throw.

[fatnhappy]

For charges that light I rely exclusively on the fixed rotor little dandy. I'm quite happy with it, however I must admit the lightest charge I personally use is 4 grains of red dot. YMMV.

[Litl Red 3991]

My hornady is an older one that has one drum with 2 adjustable inserts. One for pistol is too narrow, the flakes must bridge inside, and charges can vary by several grains. The large insert uses the entire width of the machined out drum, but it is too big for small charges. It works better than the small one, but trying for say a 4.5gr charge I will still end up with some light throws. I was just wondering if there was a better measure out there for the powders I was using.

There really aren't any measures that can do flake powders in small amounts.

And almost every measure can do from medium amounts and up of flake quite reliably. Been reloading since the 50s and had every type there is, and it's the powder and the amount that is the key.

I recently discovered that the AutoDisc wouldn't come close to dropping Red Dot in the amount I wanted for a target load. I wondered what hole it would start dropping reliably so spent some time trying out each hole, next largest etc. Thank the lord for digital scales. It turned out the 4th hole up worked reliably. The Lee chart shows amounts for all the holes of course.

I wound up loading 20 from that reliable hole, and shot them over a chrono. And discovered the only problem with small loads isn't just uniform weight being thrown.

[JesterGrin_1]

For hard to throw powders I use the RCBS Chargemaster 1500.

[littlejack]

+ 1 for the Little Dandy.
IMO it is better than most measures for this purpose, as it can be fine tuned for "specific" drop weights per rotor. I made a baffle to fit in the powder reservoir tube, which does regulate the weight on the powder ready to drop into the rotor cavity. This has helped the powder charge weight consistency very much.
Jack

[country gent]

I would look at the RCBS little dandy style of measure or similar fixed rotor measures. I have loaded alot of uniuque in pistol castridges with little issues. One thing to also try is unique and red dot ( most light fluffy powders) are really affected by static electricity. Occasionally wipe measure down with a dryer sheet or dish soap and let dry. This helps alot in dry conditions when static is high. Lees disk measure , RCBS lil dandy, or smaller measures shopuld be looked at. One thing Ive noticed is that a measure working on lower end or upper end of range isnt as consistant as one working at a mid range of its charge capacity. Another is the consistency of the measures operation. Same speed same force same "bump: at top and bottom of stroke.

[bhn22]

My Pacific measure does really well with Unique, but not as well with Red Dot. I've never understood that one...

[OuchHot!]

I use the pro-autodisk and the older autodisk for Red Dot in 3.5-6 grain range on my LnL, Ammomaster and Pro 1000. I have not been real confident at charges below about 3.2g, however. I can't say about other measures as I use the auto disk for the powder through expander feature and find it very convenient. Some of these presses demand a riser for the autodisk.

[SteveS]

I have an RCBS Quick Change powder measure and the Dillon measure that comes with the Square Deal B. I load a lot of 5.0-5.5 grain charges of Red Dot.

The Dillon is more accurate and consistent.

With the various powders I use the slide type measure is more accurate and repeatable than the drum style like the RCBS.

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree that light charges of flake powders and a powder measure is a difficult combination. As others have pointed out, you can try to compensate for the flake powder problems by keeping the hopper full, tapping the handle and reservoir consistently and other tricks.

The comments in the first paragraph of post #7 by Litl Red 3991 pretty much nailed the issue on the head. I like Unique but I keep it out of my Dillon 550B because of those issues. I can get pretty good results in a stand alone measure but I'm dropping 8 grains or more.

[dale2242]

One of the electronic measure/dispensers are the best but costly.
I have found the RCBS Little Dandy to throw the most consistent charges of fluffy powders of any the conventional measures.
I use one on my PW200. 700X seems to be one of the hardest to measure with any consistency.
I fill the measure and throw SEVERAL charges before I start to load to get it to settle down......dale

[donkee]

I have a newer LnL Bench Rest measure. The pistol rotor fits in it perfectly (Hornady says it doesn't). It throws charges from 4.0g to about 8.0g - 9.0g of Unique very consistently. When I try to go under 4.0g or above 8.0g - 9.0g (somewhere around there anyway) it gets pretty inconsistent. I figured if anything larger charges would be more consistent, but alas.....

.

[bob208]

I use lyman 55 powder measures have used them ever since I started loading. in fact the very first cartage loaded was a .38 spl. with a 358429 and 3.5 gr red dot.

[daboone]

I recently got the new Lee Classic PM. It works very well with Unique. These weights are from published Lee data not the actual VMD of this lot#

Measure adjusted for 3.5gr of Unique with approximately 2 second fill time. Individual weights as listed for each dispensing.
1- 3.5gr
2- 3.6gr
3- 3.6gr
4- 3.6gr
5- 3.6gr
6- 3.5gr
7- 3.6gr
8- 3.6gr
9- 3.6gr
10-3.5gr


Then 10 drops of 3.5gr of Unique were performed with approximately 2 second fill times and measure in bulk for a total of 36.8gr or 3.68gr average.




Measure set for 10gr of Unique. Individual weights as listed for each dispensing.
1- 10gr
2- 10.1gr
3- 10gr
4- 10.1gr
5- 10.1gr
6- 10.1gr
7- 10.1gr
8- 10gr
9- 10gr
10- 10gr


Then 10 drops of the 10gr of Unique were performed with approximately 2 second fill times and measure in bulk for a total of 100.5gr or 10.05 average.

I've also had excellent results with Unique and the 55.

[Mauser48]

Redding bench rest, rcbs chargemaster, or harrel schuetzen.

[John Boy]

What do y'all recommend?
The Lyman #55 ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/703838/lyman-55-powder-measure
I use it's 'father', the Lyman #5 to charger BP 22LR cases with 4.5gr of Swiss Null B ... every crank of the handle is 4.5grs!
And the Lee perfect Powder Measure is no slouch either. Loading my 25 Stevens with less than 3 grs of Unique - Trail Boss and Blue Dot ... I get accurate drops to x.xx grs

[BNE]

I have a couple of pet loads that are in the 3-6 grain range with Red Dot. (Sorry, I have only had 1 pound of Unique in my life.)

I use and am very happy with the RCBS Little Dandy Pistol Powder Measure. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/545386/rcbs-little-dandy-handgun-powder-measure?cm_vc=ProductFinding

I have found that to get REALLY consistent loads, (+/- .1 grains) I double tap the rotor on the up stroke. If I do not "Double Tap" I tend to get lighter loads once in a while. It is not cheap to get all the rotors, but I bought a few close to the range I wanted and I add a new one to my cart when shopping.

[kryogen]

the lee autodisk works well with the disk, and poorly with the adjustable bar.
So choose a charge that fits in a disk...

[dudel]

I throw a lot of Unique (along with BullsEye, Herco and Power Pistol) in the load range you mentioned with a Dillon powder measure. No issues using the small charge bar.

I use Red Dot; but mostly for shotgun. That gets thrown on a Lee LoadAll2. No problems there either; but the charges are higher than your range.

[Litl Red 3991]

Actually, the adjustable bars work like gangbusters with ball/spherical powders.

And flake powders don't depending on the size of the flakes, the shape of the adjustable cavity, how far closed it is, the amount of powder in the reservoir, and whether or not you shake the measure and how that's done.

Powder measure reliability is not a simple matter.

Both my Dillon and Lee charge bars measure ball powder perfectly right down to the smallest volume. They are great tools depending on how YOU use them and with what.

[kryogen]

what does w231 look like? how does it meter?
It,s true that unique is a pain to measure, probably never ordering more once I'm done with it.

[Frank V]

I use lyman 55 powder measures have used them ever since I started loading. in fact the very first cartage loaded was a .38 spl. with a 358429 and 3.5 gr red dot.


I am going to second Bob's vote for the Lyman 55. It's an old measure & there is a reason it's still on the market.
With small charges I am sure to use the knocker feature on the measure & work the throw handle consistantly. I get uniform powder charges with as little as 3.1grs of Red Dot. The Lyman 55 is not as easy to adjust as some like the Redding, but it sure throws consistant charges & I REALLY like it.

The little Dandy has been mentioned too, I have the rotor that throws 3.1grs of Red Dot & the trick here is I work the rotor with a forceful, but not violent motion.
Good luck on your selection let us know which you choose.
You will probably end up with a couple.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

kryogen

If you have used HP38 you have used WW231 acccording to Hodgdon's ballistion they are one & the same. There was an article in the Oct/Nov '09 handloader that lists several powders that are the same. I called Hodgdon's to confirm & he said they were the same.
They are a small flake size powder that meters well through powder measures. I think their burn rate it just a little faster than Unique.

[beemer]

I have two old Herter's measures, one has a chamber close to .25 of an inch the other is about .375. The small one does not do well at all with Unique the larger one works fine. The small one does very well with Bullseye down to almost one grain. The trick is finding one that matches the power you are using.

It seem the chambers are to large for small charges in some I have tried. I like these old measures, they aren't fancy but they work fine.

Dave

[Frank V]

7x57

Have you decided on a measure?
Please let us know what you decide & how well it works.

[kryogen]

what about the lee classic cast ? looks well built.

[7x57]

7x57

Have you decided on a measure?
Please let us know what you decide & how well it works.

I haven't decided on another measure, but I'm leaning towards a Lyman 55.

I do have another powder measure and it's stationed inside the house. It is a Redding BR3 I use it mostly for rifle loading or small batches. I tried it out last weekend loading up some .45's with Red Dot and it did much better than the Hornady. As I read some of the responses it looks like good results can be had with several measures if one takes the time to settle the powder.

I do need a dedicated measure out in my garage, I don't want to use the Redding. We have a lot of moisture here in SE Texas and the micrometer adjustments could rust overnight if I forget and leave it out there. I don't want to get another Redding, they are a bit too much $$ than I want to spend right now.

[Frank V]

I haven't decided on another measure, but I'm leaning towards a Lyman 55.

I do have another powder measure and it's stationed inside the house. It is a Redding BR3 I use it mostly for rifle loading or small batches. I tried it out last weekend loading up some .45's with Red Dot and it did much better than the Hornady. As I read some of the responses it looks like good results can be had with several measures if one takes the time to settle the powder.

I do need a dedicated measure out in my garage, I don't want to use the Redding. We have a lot of moisture here in SE Texas and the micrometer adjustments could rust overnight if I forget and leave it out there. I don't want to get another Redding, they are a bit too much $$ than I want to spend right now.


With most any powder measure we need to be consistant in the operation of the drum, rotor, or what ever dispensing system it has. I really like the Lyman, it has a built in "knocker" that helps consistant settling of the powder. Flake powders & extruded powders are particular offenders. I really use the knocker with the Lyman 55 with flake or stick powders. I do think you will like it. If you load any black powder they make a black powder measure too specially set up to eliminate static electricity. This measure works great with smokeless too.
Good shooting.:wink:

[kryogen]

static in the measure and the funnel is the major annoyance in my loading of 308.

[MacFan]

static in the measure and the funnel is the major annoyance in my loading of 308.

Old trick mentioned many times here...
I rub powdered graphite into the surfaces of my funnels, aluminum pans for scales and anything on my powder measures that touch powder.
Pretty much gets rid of static and pesky sticking grains of any type of powder I use.

[jazzman251]

I have used Belding & Mull powder measures for years now. They are great in they can handle flake,stick or ball powder with extreme accuracy. They are slower than a Uniflow or Lyman 55 but if accuracy is important, it's the way to go. It's nice because you don't have to measure every load, just set it once and go.

[Frank V]

I have used Belding & Mull powder measures for years now. They are great in they can handle flake,stick or ball powder with extreme accuracy. They are slower than a Uniflow or Lyman 55 but if accuracy is important, it's the way to go. It's nice because you don't have to measure every load, just set it once and go.


The Belding & Mull is a great measure. That's what Dad had when he started me reloading back in the late 50s. It still works very well!