reloading die not up to specs 1st time

[kungfustyle]

I'm not going to say the name of the maker of the reloading die, but I got a bad one. Sized and deprimed about 500+ cases with my new reloading die for my new rifle. I had three stuck cases that I had to remove and not one would chamber in the new rifle. No, I didn't try them all. Almost sent the new TC Venture back but then I tried a factory round and it chambered no problem. The bolt closed hard on the other brass. I didn't realize this could be a problem till I read some reviews on Midwayusa and other people had a hit or miss. Wow. has anyone else had this happen?

[lightman]

Most of the companies now are so good that this is very unusual, but I've had at least two bad sets of dies over the years. I'll name the company, since neither are in business anymore. The first was a Herter's 45 ACP set that would not size the case enough to hold a .452 bullet. A replacement set was no better, so that set was replaced with an RCBS set. Wow, what a difference! The other was a 22 Hornet set from Minnesota Shooters Supply. The die was not threaded enough for the expander ball to clear the webb of the case. Again, RCBS to the rescue!

Sorry to hear you are having trouble, and that you did so much work before you discovered it. I would give that company a call. I bet they will take care of you.






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[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

What cartridge were you reloading?

[mdi]

Any time there is a fit issue, measure! Measure the sized case to see where it is oversize before the die is condemned. There are many reasons a sized case won't chamber other than a "bad" die. Lightman is correct, a "bad" die from a manufacturer is very rare, especially with today's advanced machining equipment/techniques...

[kungfustyle]

The brass is 308 and this is a first for me. I was reading a post that someone put on Midway's web site about a Hornady die set (I wasn't using Hornady's) but it described my situation to a T. He changed out his die and bought another set and his problem was solved. I would believe that Thompson Center has better quality control. I have tried to contact this company before and have not gotten very good responses even "it was my fault" that the equipment wasn't working correctly. This will probably be the last thing I get from them.
The Brass is LC. But I have several rifles and even convert 8mm Mauser from 30-06 so I've seen rifle brass before. Even military stuff. I have never run into this before.
I did measure the processed cases
what Factory processed brass
Neck .388 .341
shoulder .449 .454
base .466 .469
one case was trimmed to 2.005
I don't have or know a way to measure the angle of the shoulder.
Use RCBS case lube by hand and 91% alcohol w/ lanolin both got stuck.
I did load a dummy round with a 150g fmj Hornady but had a hard time closing the bolt so I just tried the sized brass and still had a difficult time. What else could be going on?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

If you purchased once fired LC it could have been machine gun fired. You may need to bump the shoulder back a bit more. Try resizing it again and make sure the shellholder makes firm contact with the bottom of the die. Lube the inside of the case neck a bit too. If that doesn't work it sounds like you may be experiencing too much spring back. A small base sizer may be in order to size the case a bit more than the standard sizing dies. I have run into this issue and the small base sizer fixed the problem, and then the standard sizer die worked fine when sizing after subsequent firings.

[GRUMPA]

Almost ALL of the dies I get in regardless of who made them require me to remove material from the base of the sizer die. I generally need to remove .010-.015 from the base of the die, and in 1 instance .035 in order for them to correctly size the case. There has been only 1 instance where I used a brand new die set the sizer die didn't require any modification. Most sizer dies out there do a great job of rounding up the neck, basically making it a neck forming only die.

I use gauges and indicators when I size or form cases, that's the best way to find out if the brass is within specs or not after running them through a sizer die.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128219&d=1421886430

[bhn22]

IllinoisCoyoteHunter (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?8392-IllinoisCoyoteHunter) & GRUMPA (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?16276-GRUMPA) Nailed this one down. MG fired 7.62X51 brass almost always requires extra effort to size to fit commercial chambers. A friend of mine is fighting a batch of 500 as we speak, and the first thing he had to do was shorten his sizing die. There must be a boatload of MG brass on the market right now, complaints are everywhere.

[kungfustyle]

Nice to know I'm not the lone wolf. I did make sure that the die touched the shell holder. I ran them through a few times and still didn't size right. I ordered an RCBS set and I'll try it again once they get here. To bad a 45acp bulge buster wouldn't work.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Like Grumpa said, taking a little off the bottom of the die will bump the shoulder back a bit and allow for proper chambering. This allows the case to go a bit deeper into the die and bumps the shoulder back more.

[engineer401]

I've had issues reloading with LC brass before. I did not shoot the LC rounds. I don't know what they were shot from. Loaded rounds using LC brass wouldn't chamber. Reloading with civilian brass reloaded nicely and would chamber. The dies are older RCBS. I wrote off the LC brass and continued to reload with civilian brass. My problem was solved.

[GRUMPA]

Like Grumpa said, taking a little off the bottom of the die will bump the shoulder back a bit and allow for proper chambering. This allows the case to go a bit deeper into the die and bumps the shoulder back more.

Their's a bit more that it does when a person removes material from the base of the sizing die. Keep in mind your allowing the case to travel just a bit further in the die. Since the body of the die is tapered not only will the shoulder be formed a little more, but the base of the body will be sized a little small as well.

Typically when sizing military brass I size twice. No doubt that MG brass really gets expanded, but it can be worked around and since the brass is thicker it's a little tougher than commercial brass.

I do all kinds of conversions with MG fired brass, and so far so good since I get all kinds of atta boys from folks that use them.

[EDG]

You should be careful shortening dies because they tend to vary by brand and sometimes from brand to brand.

I have measured many different dies of different brands.

RCBS tends to aim at about halfway between the length of a go and no go headspace gauges with a tendency to be closer to the no go length.

Lyman and some other brands tend to be near the go gauge length.

The gauges I am talking about are the gauges for the chamber and not cartridge case gauges.

If you are making ammo for your own use you can make it fit the chamber of your personal rifle.

If you are making cases for someone else ( I don't) your cases may need to be shorter because you are trying to make it match the SAAMI commerical standard ammo dimensions so it will fit all rifles that conform to the SAAMI standard. Reloading dies are not always designed to resize brass back to the SAAMI cartridge dimensions. The loading die companies have enough experience to avoid that.

Because of these different approaches there are 2 ways to make brass.
1. To fit your own gun - set the die to fit your rifle
Your brass will last longer but it will not fit all rifles
2. Size the brass to the SAAMI dimensions - you may have to cut off the die to do that.
Your brass may not last as long if you size to this dimension repeatedly but it will fit all rifles.

When you read advice about sizing brass you should consider the best sizing dimensions your own use and proceed according to your own need.

[wallenba]

Have you tried a small base sizing die? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/597261/rcbs-small-base-sizer-die-308-winchester?cm_vc=ProductFinding
When I use LC brass for 308 or converting to 300 Savage, I always have to do this.

[ohland]

what Factory processed brass
Neck .388 .341
shoulder .449 .454
base .466 .469


Looking at the 308 Win SAAMI spec,
Neck .3435
Shoulder .454
Base .4703

"one case was trimmed to 2.005"
SAAMI case length is 2.015 -.020

OK, but that doesn't tell me the headspace of the factory vs the used brass. There are different explanations of headspace, but I am too dumb. Go to SAAMI, get the 308 Win print, and see the datum line on the shoulder. Please note the dimensions are for sporting ammo as MG chambers use a more generous chamber.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/308%20Winchester.pdf

The ".400 (10.16) B" dimension on the neck (callout is above cartridge schematic) is the datum circle. The 1.634 -.007 is the headspace, the distance from the base of the shell to a .400 diameter circle around the shell shoulder.

If you can't close the bolt, my first check would be OAL, then headspace.

Please send all flame mail to dev.null@circular-file.com

Hornady makes a frugal headspace gage (formerly Stoney Point). The base clamps on your calipers, the proper datum bushing goes into the base, then you can measure the case very quickly. It agrees within a thousandth with the much more expensive (but oh so manly!) RCBS Precision Mic...

http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/

Nice picture showing the LnL gauge and bushing in use.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Bushings/

Table of five different bushing diameters and the related cases.

[EDG]

The functional edges of the datum bushings are chamfered on the Hornady/Stoney Point tool. As a result they work ok for comparing different cases and chambers to each other but they do not provide an exact measurement compared to the SAAMI drawing. REASON - The SAAMI datums are set up for an exact .400 diameter- not a .400 diameter that has some unknown chamfer that alters the exact contact diameter. When you alter the contact diameter on the cone of the shoulder you alter the dimension the gauge will read.

However if you have a real chamber headspace gauge for say a .308 then you can measure the headspace gage and you will see your Hornady tool will have a few thousandths error. Just set your Hornady caliper mounted tool to read the same dimension marked on the headspace gauge. This will give you a nearly exact measurement of your cases that you can compare to the SAAMI numbers.
Setting of the gauge should be done with the correct shoulder angle gauge as your cartridge since variations in shoulder angles will also cause measurement variations. That is do not try to set the gauge for a 6mm Remington with a 7X57 gauge because the shoulder angles are different.

If you are loading for your rifle you probably should ignore the SAAMI cartridge drawing dimensions.
Instead focus your attention on the SAAMI chamber drawing. The chamber drawing is larger than the cartridge drawing.

Make your ammo fit the chamber especially the headspace gauge length for longest case life and best accuracy.

If you are producing brass or ammo that may be used in rifles not in your possession then you are stuck with using the cartridge drawing.

[kungfustyle]

OK. I just got my RCBS 308 die set in and did up about 300 or so after checking 5. Guess what, chambered. No problem. I did make sure that the sizing die came in contact with an RCBS shell holder and viola, usable brass. The 2.005 was the trim to legnth on both the Lyman handbook and Hodgdon's web site. Thanks for the help.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Glad you got it figured out. Was the brass once-fired military brass? Just curious. If that is the case the original die may not have been "bad". As stated above it could have been cut just a touch deeper.

[kungfustyle]

They were fired cases but none of the primer pockets were crimped, so I don't know if they were military fired or not. Weird situation but now taken care of. I have had my gun for a three weeks now and tomorrow I'm going to go shoot it for the first time. Thanks again.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Cool! Enjoy it!