40 ???

[bigted]

I purchased a barrel from a feller awhile ago as it was advertised as a 40-65 chamber. this barrel came to me and my 40-65 brass would not fit the chamber so ... I lubed up a 45-70 case and with a brass hammer I tapped it till I had it chambered ... then with a long piece of brass I "ejected" it from the chamber.

this poor mans chamber examination tells me that it may just be the early Shiloh round that was called the "40 government" round and copies none of the historic rounds whatsoever.

does this ring a bell with anyone ... and if so ... what is this round really called and ... where could I get a die set to load some?

I am hankerin to build a Gemmer trapdoor with this barrel but want to either get a handle on this current chamber or try to get another chamber that will clean up this one and still maintain the 40 cal.

thanks for the help.

[country gent]

There is a description and loading dates in the SPG manual pf the 40-goverment Dan Phariss desighned while working at SHiloh. Its supposedly easily made by sizing down 45-70 to a bottlenecked case form. You might want to do an actual chamber cast to make sure of the shape and dimensions.

[mazo kid]

Ted, I have no idea what you might have. Is the cartridge a straight case, tapered straight? 40-70 Sharps comes to mind, or 40-50 Sharps Straight. You might have to fire form a couple of cases and try to figure it out that way. If you still can't figure it out, you could send those formed cases to CH4D (or just a chamber cast, including a short bore section). I sent a couple of fired cartridges I got with a Rolling Block that had been re-chambered, along with a chamber cast and got back a custom made die set. Not cheap, but it got me reloading for that rifle.

[kootne]

bigted, is it bottlenecked? if so, there are at least 3 possibilities.
1. The .40/70 "Govt." is a .45 cal. head, 2.1" case formed with a neck the same length as a .40/70 2-1/4" Sharps/Rem. bottleneck. AKA The "long neck" .40/70 2.1 BN

2. The .40/70 2.1 is very similar but instead of the neck being the same length as a .40/70 2-1/4, the shoulder is in the same location as the 2-1/4, giving a shorter neck. AKA the "short" neck .40/70 2.1 BN

3. It could also be a .40/70 2-1/4 BN. you wouldn't know just by driving a 2.1 case in.

If it's tapered instead of BN it could still be a .40/65 but with a tighter chamber than your brass. A chamber cast, as mentioned, is the best way to get accurate information you seek. Lots of reamers have been made to somebody's idea of what is needed, I don't think there are any "standard" specs.

[Nobade]

Sounds like some Cerrosafe is in order, but likely it's something made with normal dies that was shorter than a 45-70, and using a full length 45-70 case. I have something similar here, a 40-50 bottleneck government. Just a 45-70 case run into a 40-50 SBN die and not trimmed. It's half body and half neck, and I am sure looking forward to building a rifle to use it. Just compare the shoulder location on your chamber to drawings of normal cartridges and I bet you'll see what it is.

-Nobade

[Lead pot]

Ted.

If you don't have cerrosafe you can make a good cast using paraffin canning wax. It will make you a good cast to see what your chamber looks like. Wax will shrink in the center and it is easy to push out of the chamber. Very little shrinkage on the outside of the cast.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/IMG_2288_zpsvgnfzqr0.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_2288_zpsvgnfzqr0.jpg.html)

[bigted]

yes it is a bottle neck chamber. and that wax idea is a dandy to be sure. I will give it a try before long. I have an idea it is the pharsis design but will know more when I do a chamber wax cast and then I think I will place a block of wood on the floor and do a hammer cast of the chamber and rifling beginning.

thanks for all the ideas and questions. the chamber proper according to my caliper stem measures 2.150 inch from the rim beginning on the base of the case to the end of the case section of the chamber so this is an overall length ... with around .120 inch of "throat" till the rifling. but these are shots in the dark and just approx. the real measurements.