Opinions needed on barrel length (Marlin 45/70)

[Edward]

It seems there are a lot of 45/70 users here and I am not one of them,so I am ignorant as to barrel requirements for target use .
I will be casting and plan on medium loads only,as recoil is a consideration .I hunt with older Marlins in 30-30/and 35 Rem so the 45/70 cal is for target/ bench and possibly 400 to 600 yds (I like to play )at our range .I am inclined to think 24/26" barrel would be helpful
with recoil and cast shooting but have no experience with this cal so this is just speculation on my part .I will be shopping for a pre safety Marlin ,mold and brass,dies, ect , and could use all the help /advice I can get (Thanks in advance Ed

[plainsman456]

I have a 22 in.barrel on my Marlin and it does a yoemans job out to 200 so far.
Have not shot it past that but did get to sight in one with a 30 in barrel and it did not seem to make much difference.
But this is with a sample of 2,i do like the shorter barrel,makes it easier to get around with it.

[Lead Fred]

My 22 inch 1895 dings the 550 yard gong.
Only thing I added was a ladder sight, and Lime Saver

[GooseGestapo]

I had a circa 1980s 22" mg bbl, and now have a 2002 or so Guide gun with Ballard rifling.
If you're going to carry little and shoot much, 22".
Carry much, shoot little; 18.5" GuideGun!

[Wind]

Hey there Edward -- Whilst shopping is half the fun, a couple of points may help with the direction you take. I'm a big fan of Marlins. To get a pre-safety model you will either be looking at an original 1895 which fall into the "pricey" category, or most likely a '70s vintage. These were drilled and tapped on the side of the receiver for sights and will get you to 400 yards easy enough, depending on your load. A caution with these rifles - the serial numbers were frequently on top of the tangs and make a tang sight difficult, if not impossible, to mount without adulterating the numbers. Here is a 1970, 22" barrel model...

139152

A little linger barrel will aid in longer reach. Especially with a tang sight. Most of the "Limited" series, with the exception of the Limited III have 24" barrels. These also have safeties. They fall in various configurations and can provide straight or pistol gripped stocks and well as a couple barrel variations. Here's my Limited II with an MVA tang sight. This rifle will easily do 1,000 yards....

139153



The Marlin 1895 Cowboy comes with a 26" barrel. It provides even more sight radius. Around 2000/2001 Marlin quit drilling and tapping the receivers for receiver sights, but it is an easy project to accomplish on your own. The 26" barrel stands a little taller than the 24's...

139156

Mine wears both a receiver sight and an MVA tang sight. It's spent some time in the winners circle...

139159 139160

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[Scharfschuetze]

I enjoy the barrel length on my Limited Marlin more for the extra sight radius than for any ballistic gain. The Lyman aperture sight is a big help for older eyes along with that extra sight radius.

[northmn]

I had a CB with the 26 inch barrel and will point out that the receiver sights for Marlins now screw into the last two holes of the top scope mounting holes. Had one, and it worked. Williams makes them in both the FP and 5D. Mine was a bit light weight for the heavier loads as far as recoil for sustained shooting but was fine with BP equivalent loads.

DP

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have been very happy with my 22" barrel straight-stock 1895 Marlin since 1980. Short enough for a saddle scabbard, no problems in the dog hair timber. Shorter than 20" creates unpleasant muzzle blast, handling not quite as good. Longer than 24" starts to get awkward and heavy. 300 grain bullets reach 2200 fps out of the 22", so more barrel is not needed for velocity. I expect 1.25" to 1.5" groups at 100 yds with this rifle (Leupold 1.5-5) most days.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I enjoy the barrel length on my Limited Marlin more for the extra sight radius than for any ballistic gain. The Lyman aperture sight is a big help for older eyes along with that extra sight radius.

Scharf: Does that gun have a 24 or 26" bbl.? I like the look of the long bbl. with curved lever and pistol grip.

I personally would recommend a newer gun simply because you want the Ballard style rifling over the Microgroove style for Cast Boolits.

My gun is a 2005 with Safety (that has never been used.) I have a Williams Receiver Sight mounted to the top rear scope mount holes but will D&T it for a Lyman as soon as I get around to it.

The Lyman Receiver Sights are more repeatable than the Williams ones for long range shooting. After you figure out a mechanical zero with your goto load, and set the scale and stop to zero, you can run the sight up to compensate for elevation changes while noting the offsets and only have to do it once. Then when you shoot the longer ranges you simply crank the sight up to your recorded numbers and let fly. Then when done YOU drop the sight back down to your mechanical zero and stop, which puts you right back to where you started. The sight will continue to do this for as long as you can stand it.

Buy a good used Lyman 66LA off Ebay and be done with it. Nobody else,, even Lyman, makes a better Receiver Sight than the original Lyman Model 66. The new ones aren't nearly as good a product.

For a low recoil load I would suggest a RCBS .45-300 FNGC 300gr boolit with 25 gr of 5744 .

Randy

[NavyVet1959]

There's also the 32" barrel on the H&R "Buffalo Classic". For the most part, all things else being equal, longer sight radius equals greater accuracy and more velocity potential.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.asp

http://www.hr1871.com/images/zoom_ultra_buffalo.jpg

Of course, it is *possible* for a barrel to get too long for the load that you're using and the result is a lower muzzle velocity.

[Scharfschuetze]

Scharf: Does that gun have a 24 or 26" bbl.? I like the look of the long bbl. with curved lever and pistol grip.

W.R.,

It's a 24" barrel, which for me is about ideal for carry or shooting. I've always preferred a longer barrel to a short barrel and this one is about right. With the Lyman 17A front sight (like on the Buffalo Hunter above), I can also vary the width of the square post front sight for hunting or target shooting, light or any other situation. I also use a Merit variable aperture rear disk which is almost infinitely adjustable for light conditions, positions, et cetera.

[smkummer]

I lucked out on the configuration I wanted at an auction. JM Marlin 1895 SS. Blued, 22 barrel, 1/2 tube, ballard rifling, safety, pistol grip and rubber pad that I will add a slip on leather pad. Enjoying trapdoor loads right now at targets 200 yards downrange. Unique and a cast bullet. Simply love shooting this gun. Once you shoot with a pistol grip, its hard to go back to a straight grip unless its a pistol caliber. My buddy is looking to trade his stainless guide gun 45-70 for something longer.

[BrentD]

Generally, longer is better for target work. I would not even consider a .45-70 with less than a 26" barrel (and so mine is being rebarreled with exactly that (from Green Mt).

Longer will hold better offhand for most people. There really is no downside unless you are packing on a horse or hoofing 3000 vertical feet with it on a daily basis, and I would do the 26" even then.

I also contend that most shooters will look better on the firing line with a longer barrel - and we all need to look good to shoot our best :) :)

[6pt-sika]

Lets see in all the Marlin 45-70's I've owned over the years I had the following ;

26" - 2"
24" - 1
22" - 3
18 3/4" - 2

The 26 inchers were 1895CB's and I shot some silhouette with one of them as well as a couple cast bullet deer .
The 22 inchers were a circa 1972 and 1978 with the straight grip curved buttplate , killed deer with both of them and the third was a standard 1895 of about 2002 or 2003 vintage that I never hunted .
The 24 incher was an 1895XLR that shot the Barnes Original 300 grainer very nicely so that I potted a medium sized buck at about 140 yards .
The 18 3/4 inchers were both 1895G's one ported and one not . The ported one liked the Barnes Original 300 grainer as well and potted a couple deer . The unported one liked the Ranch Dog 460-425GC and I slammed a deer with that one as well .

I would have to say of those I owned I liked the circa 1972 New Model 1895 with the non Micro Groove barrel the best . This one had the 22" barrel straight grip semi curved buttplate and a half magazine . Scoped with say a Leupold Vari XII 1-4 it was a very handy woods rifle .

Now with all that being said I would have liked to have owned an original square bolt Model 1895 in 45-70 . I played with all the 45-70 derivatives ( 33 WIN , 38-56 and 40-65) in the old square bolt gun as well as the 40-82 but never managed to find one in 45-70 that I liked and could afford . And if I had an original square bolt I think a 26" half round half octagon barrel would be the ticket !

[Blackwater]

You've gotten some good info above. Only thing I can add is that if you want performance, as in "high performance" (meaning good velocity with heavy bullets), then recoil IS going to be a part of your future. A good Pachmyr Decelerator helps a good bit with that, though. IMO, the main thing for any good levergun is NOT how far it'll shoot. The .45/70 killed an awful lot of buffalo out at distances where the velocity had dropped way off, so it's clear it doesn't get its killing power from velocity. Velocity DOES, though, help with trajectory, but learning the drops at range isn't difficult with it, either, so it's just a matter of personal preference, really.

The main thing about your gun is that leverguns are designed mostly to be fast handling guns for hunting, or if pressed into it, for self defense. Target shooting with them CAN be fun, though, and if you do it with a very nicely handling gun, I think it'll probably grow on you. I have the GG, and it's pleasingly short, which helps in some situations where I'd use it, but in all honesty, a bit longer barrel would help its overall weight distribution, swing and overall handling. I think if it were me, I'd go with no shorter than 20" for general use, and probably no longer than 24" for sake of ease of carrying where one normally carries a lever gun. I'd likely settle on 22" if it were me, which I believe is the original length of the 1895 when originally introduced, but CRS disease might be cropping up there, so you'll need to check on that. Marlin used to be pretty good about paying attention to how a gun balances and handles, or at least their guns always seemed to do pretty well in that respect, and I have a notion that they may well have put that 22" average wt. barrel on the original model at least partly for that reason. Balance and handling aren't things one sees in many of the glossy mags today, and has usually been mentioned only as an afterthought in most writings/evaluations, but put a well balanced and nicely handling gun in a shooter's hands, and they ALWAYS notice it. It just makes the gun much more of a joy to shoot when it feels virtually "alive" in our hands, and points like a finger. Just MHO.

[BrentD]

Original 95's probably came in many lengths like the 93. But also like the 93, the "standard" length was 26". To me, they feel mighty butt heavy in shot lengths.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I have 2 1895's, and like them both.

The first one I will recommend is the standard factory length 1895SS in 22". This gun puts the boolits exactly where I point when I am shooting. Deer hunting is pure joy with it, at least for me.

The second one, which is more of in the "toy" department, is another 1895SS, but it has been shortened to 16" barrel length. This little blow torch is more fun than accurate. Wrong sights and off center barrel bore is what hampers my accuracy attempts with this one. And possibly needing much faster powder than 4198 to make things work better.

The shorty DOES get way more attention on the range line though......

A friend has another 1895SS, but with a custom octagon looooonnnngggg barrel, and it is nothing for carrying whilst hunting. .......unless that is what you like and are in SEAL type shape. It shoots great at targets, but isn't very fun when humping over hill and dale.

*edit to add*
Taking longer range shots while hunting isn't going to matter much due to a few inches difference in barrel length. Being intimately familiar with the gun, cartridge, and its' capabilities will get you much farther than worrying about -2" of barrel. I made a heart/lung shot with factory sights on the standard barrel version out at a ridiculous distance.....due mainly to knowing my combination of gun/load/personal abilities at the time.

[NavyVet1959]

With respect to just the barrel lengths of old rifles...

I suspect that many of the old rifles had longer barrels since they needed it for blackpowder to get the velocity up or because of the longer sight radius that gave them more accuracy. For example, the Sharps had a 30" barrel, the Hawkens were 36", the 1853 Enfield a 39", and the Kentucky rifles varied from 32" to over 48".

And then there was the Whitworth rifle with it's hexagonal bore which makes for some interesting reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_rifle

[BrentD]

I've typed out three posts on this thread that died before before they arrived. One more time...

Why all the love for "shorty" barrels? Lever guns are not AR15s and .45-70s are not .223s.

26" is NOT a long barrel. It is a well proportioned barrel that is necessary to balance that massive hunk of iron that is the receiver. It will be much easier to aim (which is sorta important), it carries just fine (even for slow old guys like me) and it is less noisy - at least enough be noticable to me!

I'll be carrying a 26" .45-70 Marlin square bolt in AK this fall for a week of moose hunting on my feet. If I can do it, anyone can. I'd use a longer barrel if only I could afford it.

[6pt-sika]

I've typed out three posts on this thread that died before before they arrived. One more time...

Why all the love for "shorty" barrels? Lever guns are not AR15s and .45-70s are not .223s.

26" is NOT a long barrel. It is a well proportioned barrel that is necessary to balance that massive hunk of iron that is the receiver. It will be much easier to aim (which is sorta important), it carries just fine (even for slow old guys like me) and it is less noisy - at least enough be noticable to me!

I'll be carrying a 26" .45-70 Marlin square bolt in AK this fall for a week of moose hunting on my feet. If I can do it, anyone can. I'd use a longer barrel if only I could afford it.

Once again as an educator you should have a more open mind to OTHER peoples likes an dislikes . Just because you don't like the short barreled guns doesn't make it wrong . Just because others don't care for the 24" or longer barrels doesn't make them wrong .

Now I'd like another square bolt 1895 in 45-90 or 40-82 with a 26" pipe . But if all I had was an 1895G ported 18 3/4" gun I'd be okay with that .

[BrentD]

6pt, just because YOU don't like longer barreled guns doesn't make them wrong. Why can someone advocate for 22" without being criticized for it but not 26" ?

Did not the OP ask for opinions on barrel length?

You seem to have a hell of a double standard going.

[6pt-sika]

6pt, just because YOU don't like longer barreled guns doesn't make them wrong. Why can someone advocate for 22" without being criticized for it but not 26" ?

Did not the OP ask for opinions on barrel length?

You seem to have a hell of a double standard going.

Seems to me a man with your educational background could read a little better . No where in there did I say I didn't like either . If you read a bit better before you go on the attack you might have noticed I pretty much advocate them all 18 3/4" all the way to 26" .

[BrentD]

I read just fine. I don't know why my "background" matters one whit either.

However, what I would really like to know is why you feel you need to jump on my back about it. Go pick on a 22" advocate instead...

[6pt-sika]

However, what I would really like to know is why you feel you need to jump on my back about it. Go pick on a 22" advocate instead...


No after you said ,
"Why all the love for "shorty" barrels? Lever guns are not AR15s and .45-70s are not .223s."

That made you fair game .

And by no means am I an advocate of the AR platform .

[BrentD]

Okay, keep shooting at me. You are obviously a superior life form. Meanwhile, the mystique of the short-barrel clique remains a mystery to me.

Whatever dude, I hope your tomorrow is better for ya.

[6pt-sika]

Meanwhile, the mystique of the short-barrel clique remains a mystery to me.



I suspect you have a copy of Brophy's Marlin book . Give it a look see for the 1893's , 1894's and 1895's . The short barrel thing is nothing new there were a fair number of them made back in the pre 1920 years with barrels of 13-15 inches . Granted that's an extreme but they did make that type thing 100 years ago . Although I would suspect they were all special order .

And on the other hand there were 30" barreled guns in all three models as well !

[MaLar]

I did a test years ago when I built a 45 cal rifle using 350 Rem Mag brass full length. Basically a belted 45-70.
Started with a 29 1/2" barrel that I cut down in two inch increments to 22". I loaded some loads with Unique and slower powders plus Black.
What I found was the velocity lost was minimal with all loads. What was interesting was the SD was better with the longer barrel especially with Black. And as the barrel was shortened the recoil went up. So what length to use, what ever tickles your fancy.

[NavyVet1959]

I did a test years ago when I built a 45 cal rifle using 350 Rem Mag brass full length. Basically a belted 45-70.
Started with a 29 1/2" barrel that I cut down in two inch increments to 22". I loaded some loads with Unique and slower powders plus Black.
What I found was the velocity lost was minimal with all loads. What was interesting was the SD was better with the longer barrel especially with Black. And as the barrel was shortened the recoil went up. So what length to use, what ever tickles your fancy.

The velocity is going to depend a lot on the caliber you are using and the powder. Ballistics By The Inch (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com) has done some testing with quite a few calibers with commercial ammo, but not on a per powder basis. Considering how many powders there are plus how many bullet weights and types, that would be a rather intensive undertaking to test all the combinations for an assortment of barrel lengths.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

As an aside, my 16" barreled marlin makes very nice basketball sized fireballs when fired.....not to mention clearing off the firing line within a few shots at any shooting contest it has been used at.

It is requested as a night entertainment devise at these lever gun shoots, as it is very impressive at night.

[Clay M]

I like the 22" best for hunting and informal target shooting..
I have a Marlin 1895 @ 1971,a Ruger #1, and a Browning Saddle Ring carbine.
All have the 22" barrel.
I also have the Guide rifles..
They are very handy for carrying long distances..

[TXGunNut]

I like the short barrel of the Guide Gun just fine, handy getting in and out of a truck and in a deer stand. Must admit I'm keeping an eye out for a good 26" CB just to keep things balanced.