Journey to a clean bore......

[Knarley]

It started out harmlessly enough, was having trouble with my BPCR grouping. After much advise was given, it was suggested that I should "Clean that bore".
"CLEAN MY BORE?" What are you talking about? I clean the snot out of that gun. "Clean my bore indeed"! "Boy I tell ya, some people"! If they want a clean bore I'll show 'em a clean bore! So I headed down to the basement, figured a couple wasted patches later, I'd be vindicated. I had cleaned the bore with Balistol & water previously as always. And so the journey began...................

Hoppe's # 9 was, yes, WAS the strongest solvent I had. One patch saturated patch, and a dry one should do the job. Second patch come out showing a little darkness, but not bad, not bad at all. Ran another soaked patch, figured I'll get the rest with a quick brushing and that will be that. FAMOUS LAST WORDS..............After 20 strokes in & out with the brush, HOLY COW!!!!!! The patch was covered in what I'll call mud. Blacker than sin, this stuff was nasty! And so it went for the next 6 hrs or so, off and on for the next week. Oh yes, small chunks of lead, what looked like flakes of carbon, and more mud.

I could have used a fat guy in the corner, dressed in a loin cloth, pounding out a cadence on a drum. Boom - boom, Boom -boom. Now I don't know if it was the sweet aroma of the Hoppe's, but I started trying different "cleaning" things. At the time of this post, Balistol, Hoppe's, Carb cleaner, K&N air cleaner cleaner, Pure spirit gum turpentine,Butler Creek black powder solvent, Kroil, Sweet's 7.62, J-B Bore paste, Outer's & Montana extreme Cowboy had been used. I DID stop at using a dead chicken, tho, I considered it. I am up to my knees in cleaning patches, and so far one ramrod has had to be repaired. I now have a collection of solvents to rival most gun shops, and have another 500 patches on the way.

I HAVE come to the conclusion that those brass brushes have as much to do with selling more cleaning patches as anything else. I'm beginning to suspect they are really copper coated graphite strands that leave dark residue in your otherwise spotless bore.

In conclusion, YES, the call to clean my bore was a valid one. If you think you are doing a "good enough" job..........think again
Brass brushes are EVIL..... and should't be used, they will take you down a never ending path of misery.
And if you strive for the all elusive "Spotless Bore".........................Pack a lunch. :wink:

With all due respect,
Knarley

[Gunlaker]

I've been there too. Nowadays I clean with Butches Black Powder Bore Shine on the advice of Kenny W. then when I'm done I push several tight fitting dry patches through. Sometimes you'll think it's clean, but there can be a layer of hard carbon fouling, or even a bit of lead that won't show on a patch.

If I get any lead at all then I'll use a little Kroil and tight patches to get the lead out. When you are done the patch needs to be completely white or there is still something in there.

Hard black carbon fouling can be a problem as it can hide layers of lead and more carbon fouling underneath. A while ago I bought a used Meacham highwall and the previous owner obviously didn't realize that the throat was heavily carbon fouled in layers with leading trapped in between. It took a lot of effort to get it all out.

Once you get the barrel clean, it'll generally be easy to keep it that way, but only once you have your fouling control figured out. This is one of the things I like about wiping rather than blow tubing as I can feel if I'm getting any carbon buildup in the throat because the patches get a tight feeling for the first couple of inches in front of the chamber.

Chris.

[country gent]

Cleaning a barrel after using black powder can be a trial at times the carbon can be very hard to remove at times. Ive found that doing it as soon as possible is a plus. Letting it dry out and get hard and crusty just makes it harder to remove. I normally " pre clean with windex vinegar at the range ( have also used windex multi surface cleaner with good results) Done right after last shot is fired a few squirts and bruching then a couple dry patches remove most of the fouling for me. Then when I get home its a ballistol and water light brushing and patches. Then Shooters choice dry and lightl;y lube. I use a patch permeated with the bullet lube Im using for this. Wipe down outside and then Ill check in a day or two just to make sure. If you lube dosnt do it job fouling is much harder to remove also.

[martinibelgian]

One of the new-style carbon cleaner is pretty useful here, like M-pro 7 or suchlike. Carbon fouling usually is much harder to get out than leading. And if the one builds up on the other, then you won't get bored for quite a while...
Which is Why I like shooting PP in my military rifles - cleanup is much easier, and less work. GG bullets usually take quite a bit more time. However, the match rifle prefers GG, so...

[Petrol & Powder]

I had a Lee-Enfield .303 that tested my sanity when I attempted to clean the bore. I think it won.

[Sharpsman]

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Shot-Gun-Care-Cleaning/dp/B001F0I8FI/ref=pd_sim_200_9?ie=UTF8&refRID=0FGNKG2NDMYT8SJCE9RE

If I suspected I had a 'leading' problem I'd use the above on a right sized jag and with a TIGHT PATCH...and I mean TIGHT.....I'd drive the patch through the bore with a hammer! It works!! If there's lead in the bore it'll come out!

[MikeA]

Hi,
I have a few cleaners, spray cleaners, orange, ez clean, number 1 cleaner I believe but I swear by bore butter. It's like hot sauce, I put that s :-) :-) t on everything. Before I shoot I run a patch of bore butter and leave a film only in barrel. The first round fired imo never to be counted, bore is cold and needs some fouling to shoot. My second through 10th rd are on the nose. Than I clean the barrel with a spray cleaner than another b.b. patch and use a dry patch and a spit patch to finish it off. But I think a good fouling preventer is needed. The best results I've seen is with home made beeswax and vaseline, even Crisco if your broke. I really like beeswax and vaseline, for a 40-60 degree day I mix it 50/50. I normally have a mass of lube where it should be at the muzzle crown and after 80rds I actually had to break out my 20ga. Stainless brush to scrub the last 4"of barrel. When I used to shoot a Zouave, I figured out a giant brush works best. Hope that helps or gives an idea to think about. In a 30"inch barrel I only need the brush on 2 groove edges. Just personally speaking not enough lube on bullet.

[country gent]

Another thing to remeber is when using a brush over and over is to clean it also. a brush can carry crud into the barrel depositing it for the next series of patches to pick up. A brush can hold alot of fouling and crud in its bristles.

[Knarley]

Well, my Original post was intended to be a "tongue in cheek" post.:wink:

My dad told me when I was 16 or so and trying to get a barrel "Clean". He said "You're kiddin' yer-self, you will NEVER get it perfectly clean". And I believe he was right.
The main problem as I see it, the solvent and the patches get just the surface "new" stuff. One has to remember, the fouling is deposited UNDER PRESSURE, enormous pressure. A wet rag ain't gonna get it all out. A brush is the only way to get at it, and a brush is seldom mentioned in the directions on the solvent bottle. Basically when the top layer of stuff is gone, you are done. After while layers begin to form,and they get blasted again and again and form: Carbon
Look at the carbon on a fryin' pan, it isn't coming off in the "wash".................... Besides, one wants it there.

Who's to say the carbon in a gun barrel isn't so much different than on a pan. It helps keep stuff from sticking, fills the pores of the metal and makes it smoother, like glass smoother.
Why clean a poor gun to with in an inch of it's life, then before shooting a match, shoot it a few times to get it dirty so it will shoot better?
I'm beginning to wonder if that carbon layer,the very first layer against the steel isn't a benefit. Sure one wants the "sludge" out of the barrel, but just solvent and patches is not going to take all of it out. I have noticed that after brushing, the "sludge" and the carbon do look different.
In that .45-70 I believe that I am to that bottom layer, and I am done cleaning 'till I burn some more charcoal in it.
The postman dropped off some new boolit moulds, so it's time to go out and get dirty again :grin:

Regards,
Knarley

[rfd]

good post, knarley. i think yer right on. there's a limit to how clean a barrel can get (or NEEDS to get) once the majority of crud is removed - patches only, rarely a brush and if that's needed it's nylon and sometimes with a patch. it's futile to think yer gonna get down to the molecular level where patches will never come out totally pristine clean ... just not necessary and a waste of time better spent casting, loading and shooting. ymmv.

i love to read all the many different variations on how to clean barrels and control fouling, and all the variations of methods, materials and concoctions. some folks preach there's only one "right" way. hah! more of ymmv. :)

a few years back i bought a good flintlock rifle that was misused, never properly cleaned nor stored correctly. took me a good 3 weeks of daily scrubbing with pb-blaster to get all that black and red crud out, but it worked just fine and turned a dead rifle into a lively and accurate shooter.

[Lead pot]

A lot of guns get ruined by improper cleaning than they get ruined shooting.

A rifle shot with black powder is best cleaned with just plain water or maybe a little oil soap added. clean out the black fouling first using wet patches. When those patches come out clean, should be about 4 wet, run a couple dry through to dry out the moisture then run a patch wet with penetrating oil and let it sit a couple minutes. Then push a tight dry patch through like Sharpsman said, you can drive it through, but I don't like to get that rough, but if you do make sure you have a bore guide in the chamber so the rod don't slap the lands. Use a guide regardless either way. A rod with a patch slot just back from the tip is ideal so when the patch on the jag clears the muzzle the bare rod don't slap the crown. I don't like carbon rods or plastic coated cleaning rods. Plastic rods the dirt and grid will get imbedded in them and that's like sand paper. Carbon rods I look at them like fiberglass. A good SST rod one a magnet wont pick up is softer than the barrel and it will not imbed grit. Wipe the rod after every pass through the bore.
I double a patch and push it through to see if I can lift lead, if I do then I repeat the tight patch with penetrating oil till the lead does not show up. My rifles are clean with les then 10-12 patches when the last comes out as clean as it goes in. No gray streaks on it.
Using bore cleaners that you would use for copper fouling. You don't want to use several different brands during the same cleaning session. Mixing the different chemicals can cause a chemical reaction that will edge or eat the barrel metal.
Just plain water or a little soap in the water is all that is needed to clean your barrel and pure turpentine or penetrating oil if you think you might have lead in the bore with a tight patch will serve you well.
Patches are cheap compared to replacing a barrel.

[rfd]

some good points, lead pot.

these dayze i prefer a good stiff 3/8" brass rod 'n' jag, with a brass bore guide at the chamber end, and a patch that's screwed in between the jag and rod so that the jag/rod won't rattle the rifling on the retrieve. i use mostly water with a bit of ballistol added for fouling control with a delrin rod 'n' patch, and dutch's moose milk formula for barrel cleaning, followed by the water/ballistol, dry patches, finally an oily patch or a patch with gatofeo bullet lube. i'll at least visual the barrel a day or so later, too. i won't use commercial cleaners or lubes. i do about the same for my flintlock rifles, too.

[Lumpy grits]

BP clean'n all you need is Windex cleaner with Vinegar.
Tuff stuff-use a a mix of 50/50, ATF and turpentine.
LG