Col

[Carrier]

Did lots of reading with what was suggested here and what I have found. First 38 Special I did on Rockchucker. Hornady COL specs on 125 gr. HP XTP is 1.450". I have 1.445" with a really good crimp. Will this be ok or should I keep trying to keep the crimp I have and get it to 1.450"

[mozeppa]

usually a few thousandths won't hurt either way...as long as the nose don't get in the way of cylinder rotation.

at 1.444 i'd be checking the seat die for crud build up...sometimes the buildup will seat the boolits progressively deeper and deeper.

[troyboy]

You are fine.

[Carrier]

Thanks for the replies. These are brand new dies and first time for me setting any up.

[noylj]

In most cases, you roll crimp into the crimp groove and THAT is your COL. For a revolver, you can load as long as you like--provided the bullet doesn't stick out the front of the cylinder. The COL in a manual is the minimum COL that data applies to.
Per Ramshot:
"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load."

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can determine this by using an empty sized case, expand and flare, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

[Carrier]

Ok this is about the best picture I can get with an iPhone. If you all can see it does the crimp look ok?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p45/r404a/241f8f62d771c93fd7c976e2ac0d6e04_zps7odpp2sz.jpg

[bedbugbilly]

I only reload lead boolits but as mentioned - on those - your COAL is going to be determined by two factors - the intended crimp groove of the boolit design AND your case length. Remember that all cases are not created equal - they can vary a few .001 in length depending on who makes 'em or if they've been trimmed to all one length.

I only use "range brass" - mixed head stamps - but even then, they have never varied enough in length to really affect the crimp - and I seat and crimp in two separate operations. For the plinking I do, they all work just fine. Your COAL is of course going to be determined by the setting of your seating stem. On my 38 Specials, I only use a roll crimp - which is what most folks use. I've never loaded bullets like yours so can't speak to that. But, I also load 38 Colt Short and Long - and on those, I use a taper crimp die and just put a mild crimp on them. My loads are "mid range" as far as min/max loads and I have never had any boolits "jump" in any of my revolvers. And, I use a "mild" taper crimp on them so as not to "swage" the diameter. The neck tension and mild taper crimp keep them in place just fine.

Your photo looks good and if it is within a couple .001 of the COAL specs for that particular bullet, you should be just fine. As already mentioned . . if they fit the cylinder and the nose is behind the face of the cylinder and doesn't bind up the rotation, there's no problem.

Now . .. if you were to seat your bullet or boolit too deep . . you will change the case volume - remember that decreasing case volume (i.e. seating too deeply) will increase pressure. It might come in to play if you are shooting "max" or pushing the limit on your loads . . . but normally, a few .001 isn't going to make a difference.

38s are a fun cartridge to load and shoot . . . probably one of the best cartridges to learn reloading on. Like any cartridge, "consistency" is the trick. i.e. if your loaded cartridges are all the same and shoot well with the load you come up with, in theory, they all should shoot well and shoot the same. Doesn't always work that way but . . . There are many things that can affect it. I'm a "plinker" so I don't worry as much about those things as a serious competition shooter would. Things such as equal boolit weight, same brand of casings, same primer brand, exact powder weight each time as opposed to + or - a tenth of a grain which can happen with many powder measures (my Lee Perfect Powder Measure for example), neck tension, crimp tension, etc.

I'll also say that it sounds like you re just getting started and that you are like most of us . . . in the beginning you "worry" and sometimes "over think" things as you don't want to make mistakes or do anything that is unsafe. That's a good way to be . . . . you do want to be safe! On your powder charges . . . follow the rule of reloading . . . start low and work you way up until you find what works best out of your pistol . . . and pay attention to the nimimum and maximum charges in the loading data for the powder and bullet / boolit weight you are using.

One thing that I have found very helpful for die set up for any cartridge I reload is to make up a "dummy" round - an empty, unprimed casing with each bullet style seated where I want it. Then, when you set up your seating die each time, you can back the seating stem out a couple of turns, put the dummy round in the ram and raise it, then gently adjust the seating stem down until it just touches the bullet - it should then be in adjustment for seating to the depth you want.

Your cartridge looks good to me . . . be safe, have fun and enjoy! It will soon be "old hat" for you!

[mdi]

I reloaded my first .38 Special in 1969. I had no manuals, just an instruction sheet with my Lee Loader so OAL wasn't considered. The bullets had a groove or cannalure so I figgered that's how deep the bullet was supposed to go in the case. I reloaded mebbe 1,500 that first year and had absolutely no problems with all bullets seated to/crimped in the cannalure/groove. Fast forward to present; two weeks ago I reloaded some .38 Specials and seated all bullets to the crimp groove (I only shoot lead now) and still couldn't tell you what the OAL is.

The only thing I tell new reloaders to disregard from a reloading manual is COL for revolver cartridges. Seat to the groove/cannalure and crimp there. As long as the cartridge isn't too long for the cylinder it's OK...

[Carrier]

Bedbugbilly I apprieciate your post. Yes I am new at this other than using a Lee hand loader about 45 years ago for a 45/70 Springfield trapdoor.
Being a heavy equipment tech for 35 years sometimes a big *** hammer and torch is the way to go other times have to use micrometers and work in thousand inch tolerances.
I am going to use this one for a reference and that's why I wanted to get it as close as I could to being right.

I pretty much have the lock n load press I bought dialled in and getting ready to load up first live round. The rcbs bullet puller I bought has gotten a real work out as I have probably loaded 30 or so with no primers or powder to get things set up.