Alternate powder for 45 colt.

[Tackleberry41]

I know unique is a good powder, but had some position sensitivity issues with it last time I went shooting. A standard pressure load, going in my Uberti breaktop. I was shooting, Lee 230gr TL FN, using lee tumble lube, 9gr of Unique, middle of the road sort of load. Shooting over the chrony, they were all over the place, could feel them, tilt the gun back each shot, and they even out. Had the issue before with an 1858 conversion, so went to trail boss for that, but prefer a bit more velocity.

Maybe a different powder? Have 2400, green dot, universal, AA #2, AA #9, 800x, 5744, clays, Autocomp, Shilouette, blue dot. Not found blue dot to be very good at low pressures, unburned powder.

Or some sort of filler to keep the powder in the back?

[Outpost75]

Factory .45 Colts were loaded with Bullseye for over 100 years. No filler is needed. No position issues.

I use it for all of my Cowboy loads in .44-40, .45 Schofield and .45 Colt.

Use 4 grains in .45 Cowboy Special brass (.898" case), 4.5 grains in Schofield case (1.10" case) and 6.0-6.5 grains in. 45 Colt case or .44-40.

I get much more uniform velocities and better accuracy with Bullseye than with Unique or slower powders. Chronograph data from Colt New Service M1909 5-1/2" with 0.008" cylinder gap. Bullets as-cast and unsized at .455" which fit the Colt's throats, and lubricated with LSStuff 45-45-10:

Starline .45 Colt brass, Remington 2-1/2 primer, Saeco #955 1:30 Sn/Pb
5.0 Bullseye, 685 fps, 24 Sd, 84 ES, n=12 rds.
6.0 Bullseye, 823 fps, 17 Sd, 47 ES, n=12 rds.
6.5 Bullseye, 900 fps, 18 Sd, 44 ES, n=12 rds.

Starline .45 Schofield brass, Remington 2-1/2 primer, Saeco #955 1:30 Sn/Pb
4.0 Bullseye, 669 fps, 10 Sd, 29 ES, n=12 rds.
4.5 Bullseye, 736 fps, 12 Sd, 37 ES, n=12 rds.

Starline .45 Cowboy Special (.898" case), Remington 2-1/2 primer, Saeco #955 1:30 Sn/Pb
4.0 Bullseye 643 fps, 18 Sd, 47 ES, n=12 rds.

[ohnomrbillk]

I like universal and green dot. They seem cleaner burning that unique.

[bangerjim]

I use TiteGroup ( advertised as NOT position sentitive at all and I have proved it!) and ETR7 a lot.

Even have used Clays, 700X, American Select, and TrailBoss.

Basically use what you have/can find......according to the load data pages. Get EVERY cast load data book/site you can for various powders and loads.

Find some data listings and get 'er dun!

bangerjim

[M-Tecs]

I have not had the same issues with Unique as you are having. 8 grains of Unique under a 255 cast has been my standard since I was a kid loading for a reenactment club in the late 60's to late 70's. I loaded over 50 pounds of it in 45 colts & 45/70 during that time period and it is still my go to powder for plinking and light target loads in the 45 Colt and 45/70.


Some more info here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?174256-9-grains-Unique-45-Colt

Never used a filler with it. Not sure why you are have issues with it. Maybe try a heavier crimp. Unique is noted for its lack of position sensitivity.

[Tackleberry41]

Well I have universal and green dot on the shelf, never used bullseye where I would have any. And like most things pistol probably in short supply. Any place I stop is the same selection of rifle powder, pretty much no pistol powders. Guess will try the green dot since I have a full bottle and not using it for anything else.

[bangerjim]

Sometime back I messed around with a tiny bit of Dacron fluff in 45LC cases with TiteGroup. That powder is fast and the fill volume is VERY small.

I could not see any difference....other that wasting time with stuffing the fluff in the 10 cases I tried.

Use the right powder......you do NOT need a filler.

If you are worried about having small-filled cases, get some Trailboss. OMG....that stuff is really bulky and normally fills the case.

banger

[Keyston44]

I've had great luck with Unique in my 45 colt. I even use it in my 45-70 without any problems. Besides Unique, Win 231 has worked well for me. lately I have been experimenting with AA # 2 and that shows a lot of promise.

Key

[jmort]

Unique is not position sensitive as that term is commonly understood.

[Hardcast416taylor]

For many years, and still today, the factory duplication for the 255 gr. boolet was 6 gr. of Red Dot. That is until the formula was changed and now it takes about 6.5 gr. of Red Dot to get about 900 FPS.Robert

[DougGuy]

Going to try 9.0 and 9.5gr Herco, first loads I tried in my Uberti were 8.5gr under a 244gr 454190, but the gun had some light primer strikes, some FTF from that, a couple of sooty cases and velocity was all over the place. I have since replaced the mainspring with a new non-cobra shaped spring, I have some new 454190 coming at 260gr (different caster, different alloy, different lube, same mold) so it will be starting from scratch again with a new load. Herco is good in the .45 Colt but I understand doesn't like low pressures either. More later on Herco in my .45 Colt...

[Tackleberry41]

Bought some 800x other day, friend raves about it. Load a few see how they do. Also have a large amount of solo 1000 be nice if I could use some of it.

Maybe Unique isnt position sensitive by definition. All I know is some would go pop, lighter recoil, bullet still came out the end, Chony reading was way off what it should be. Tilting the gun up before each shot, everything settled down. Be nice to find something that was a bit cleaner to shoot.

Trail boss does work, I had half a box I had loaded at some point, using some 200gr bullets I have no idea where I got them, don't have any more. Figured I would shoot em off in my new gun, along w half a box of the 9gr unique loads w 230gr.

[DougGuy]

Tackleberry, how stiff is the trigger in your Uberti? Sometimes light primer strikes can be totally responsible for low and/or inconsistent velocities. I tried the pencil test in mine and it shot a full length lead pencil dropped eraser first down the barrel, about 18" into the air straight up. I would have expected 3-4 FEET.

I just tried the pencil test with the new mainspring and it won't even clear the barrel with the pencil. Can we say "Hmmmmmm" now? The new spring -felt- only marginally stronger than the stock factory spring, but the pencil says it too is going to have some FTF so I'm not impressed at all with the new spring. Maybe I need to order out a Colt spring from Brownell's before I even take it out shooting again.

It's either that or try and straighten out the replacement Uberti spring and hope it gains some force in doing so.

[Tackleberry41]

It only had issues with the Unique loads. The Trailboss loads I had left over from my conversion gun all worked fine. And once I tilted the gun up before each shot, it was fine to. Avg of 867fps w the 9gr of unique behind that 230gr.

I would like a cleaner powder, unique sooted up that break top pretty bad.

Funny I bought the FN mold after discovering my RN 230gr mold were to long in my conversion gun, work fine in the blackhawk w a longer cyl.

[Tackleberry41]

Tried the pencil thing, had to find one between a 7yo and the dog, not easy to find a full pencil. Straight up they went maybe 2ft. Feels like theres a notch at half cock, theres a safety they put in there, pull the trigger it drops all the way. Let it down a little slow and it stops at half cock. I generally open a gun up to do some internal work anyways. Might just need some parts polishing.

[Tackleberry41]

I took it apart, I can see the obvious drag marks on the hammer from the rather roughly made spring for the latch. But also a gouge in the hammer where its hitting the frame. Guess I have to send it back to Uberti, tho may give me **** for taking it apart.

[MtGun44]

Never found any significant position sensitivity issues with Unique in any pistol
cartridge I ever tried it in, which is most of them.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Chronograph testing Unique I have found it to clock at non consistent velocities but still provide good accuracy. Someone else posted similar observations, but I can't recall specifically who.

Firing position sensitive tests with a .44 Special 4 3/4" bbl Colt's SAA with 6.4 gr Unique under a 240 gr 429667 ww alloy the "muzzle up" powder position gave an average of 838 fps while the "muzzle down" powder position five (5) shot average was 784 fps. Using Starline brass and CCI300 primers, Lyman Alox lube.

All this is purely academic to me as I regularly cock the SA with the shooting hand thumb which positions the muzzle skyward before each shot anyway.

Bullseye is a very accurate powder in the .45 Colt but the light dusting of this fast burning powder isn't conducive to high volume loading in a large cartridge case on a progressive press. Unique is the powder I use the most in the .45 Colt at 800 to 850 fps pressures.

Tackleberry41, you mention AA#2 and AA#9, why not AA#5?

2400 launches a 250 gr 454190 boolit out of the .45 Colt at 823 average fps with 15 gr. I get a few unburnt powder grains but it would be silly to think these unburnt grains would tie up the action of a Colt's SAA, or any other action for that matter.

[Tackleberry41]

I don't have any AA#5, havent seen any for sale for a while, well most pistol powders really. So I use what I have. I was tempted to try some 2400, since I dug up an extra pound not long ago. But noticed 800x is at the top of the list with the 230gr cast. Thats the mold I have on hand. Havent had time to mess with it. Gotta get the gun back together, see if I will end up fixing it or sending it back.

Was shooting some blue dot out of my single shot the same day, some of those 225gr flex tips. Noticed quite a bit of unburnt powder, they shot fine, but blue dot seems to like some pressure to burn well. So will look for something else I have on the shelf. Gun store near me has 800x and 700x, that's it for pistols. Stopped in several places they all have the same rifle powders, rare to find pistol powder at all. You would think it would be backwards. A lbs of pistol powder generally makes a whole lot more rounds per lbs, than rifle. 1000rds of 9mm is less than a lbs of unique, while a 223 1000rds is not quite 4 lbs.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I haven't tried Blue Dot in the .45 Colt. Blue Dot was the most pleasant surprise for accuracy in high pressure .44 Special loads.

Red Dot with the .45 230 gr 452374 in the .45 Colt shows 7.0 gr at 862 fps and very stable, consistent velocities. I have chronograph data with the 250 gr boolit if you are interested too.

I haven't clocked the .45 Colt with Green Dot or American Select with a 230 gr boolit either. I've got data with these powders with the 250 gr boolit. Most of my shooting with the .45 Colt is with the 250 gr boolit. I've found American Select not a favorite with full weight boolits but better with the lighter boolits so it would be worth looking into in the .45 Colt with a 230 gr boolit.

Herco in the 250 gr boolit 9 gr clocked at 884 fps in the .45 Colt, 8 gr at 747 fps.

Someone just gave me six (6) pounds of 700X and I haven't worked with very much yet but it looks like a real good powder for my needs.

The Schofield brass from Starline works very well with the 230 gr RN 452374. I've got data with Unique and Trail Boss but I shoot the long brass with the full weight boolit mostly and haven't tested other powders with this brass.

[hanleyfan]

anyone try the ETR7 pistol powder in 45 colt?

[ole 5 hole group]

If you can find it - VV N340, N350, N110 & N120 work just fine in 45 Colt and a lot of other calibers as well.

[Tackleberry41]

I have seen some if the VV powder, I usually don't want to pay the premium, probably why its on shelves. I just have not seen much in way of pistol powders to buy. And I have to have the cash. I go to a place, its a choice of several lbs of powder, or buying an lbs of powder, and some primers or bullets to. I would really like to find some more power pistol for my 357 sig and 45 super. Have more than enough unique, more solo 1000 I know what to do with. I picked up the 800x the other day, had the cash, friend raves about it. I primed some brass today for it, the bullets are cast. Then I have to find the time to load it. Im a single father of a 7 yo, tends to restrict my time for such things.

[AtomHeartMother]

I'm getting ready to try some 800x for mine....mainly because I have it laying around. May try 700x as well..Casting 230 grain boolit. Powder is still hit and miss around here....plenty of rifle powder...the rest..not so much.

[Blackwater]

I haven't had a LC in a long time, but a buddy dotes on them, and a while ago, he ran out of Unique, but had some Red Dot on hand. He perused his manuals, and decided to give it a try. He wanted a mild load, and figured to let the big bullet do the killing instead of velocity. He settled on 6.5 gr. of Red Dot under, IIRC, a 250 gr. boolit. Boy! Was he every more surprised when it shot BETTER than his "old reliable" Unique load! He was shooting 25 yds. groups of under 1" for all 6 shots. This is with a 4 5/8" Ruger Bhk. He didn't believe the first group, and went back inside the house and loaded up 6 more, with slightly better results for the 2nd group. Of course, this made him happy, but you know how it is when we reloaders are happy - we've just GOT to try to make ourselves even happier. So he at one point decided it wouldn't be a bad thing if he had a little more velocity. Deer season was nearing and like any good hunter, he wanted to be SURE. So he went to 6.7 gr., and lo and behold if it didn't shoot very slightly BETTER than the 6.5 gr. load. He tried a little more, but that opened groups very slightly, and like any wise shooter, decided the 6.7 gr. load was aplenty. The next time I heard from him, he'd already taken 3 deer with the load - all head shots, as he's prone to do. He gets a little better velocity from Unique, but he just DOTES on those Red Dot loads. Your gun may well be different, of course, but it's always worth a try to audition loads like this, and whatever powder you try, always test in increments to be sure you're not missing out on loads like this - the real stand-outs. Each handgun, if properly regulated, probably has one or more loads like this that just seem to mesh with whatever controls these things, and gives absolutely stellar results. All we have to do is keep trying stuff until we identify what our guns like particularly, and what they don't. Friends usually don't mind loaning you a small amount of a powder you don't have, and especially when we reciprocate. Even a little pill bottle full is enough for a good initial trial loading. The more loads we try, the "luckier" we get. Funny how that works, ain't it? ;-);-)

[Whiterabbit]

Anyone ever try 4198? it would be rather unorthodox...

[Tackleberry41]

Never seen any load data for 4198 in a 45 colt. Not sure how it would do at standard pressure, might work in ruger only loads. I have seen data for fast rifle powders in a rifle barrel vs pistol.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Brian Pearce primarily uses Red Dot for standard velocity loads. Mr records indicate 6.0 gr of Red Dot fills the case to just less than 8.5 gr of Unique. 5.6 gr of Red Dot moves a 250 boolit at 858 fps out of the .45 Colt 4 3/4".

[Whiterabbit]

you'll never see load data for 4198 in 45 colt. I just wonder if anyone has tried it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I like herco in the 45 colt for 1000 fps loads. Its old school just like the 45 colt. 9.3 grains of it has allways been kind of a magicaly accurate load for me in various 45s.

[Tackleberry41]

Got that gun back together, guess they don't have files in Italy? The end of the hand looked like a hammer had been used, hanging things up as the hammer fell, slowing it down. Tons of sharp edges, frame and internal parts. Way smoother now, lots of fun to get that little spring for the latch to slip into its notch, guess they have sort of special tool for that. But one would think as much as they charge for the guns, a basic function test wouldn't be to much to ask. Won't get to shoot it to test out any loads until next week.

[BigAl52]

Try some HS-6 about 10.2 grs shoots good. Al

[stubshaft]

I use AA #5 almost exclusively in the Colt. It burns very similar to Unique IN MY GUNS, and meters much better than Unique.

[AtomHeartMother]

Had a chance to try some of my 800x loads yesterday. 6.2-6.4 grains ....the powder actually metered better than I thought it would. Using a 230 flat point ww boolit with powder coat. Keeping pressures down as I am shooting the load in an Uberti revolving carbine and a Pietta new model army, both with R&D cylinders. Great for plinking and point of aim seemed right on the money. Of course with such light loads of 800x there is some unburnt powder but that's to be expected. What a thrill bringing home a couple of black powder guns only to do minimal cleaning...a win in my book.

[Tackleberry41]

Will run my 800x loads over a chrony this weekend, see how they do. Finally scored some power pistol for my 357 sig and 45 super loads, had to be in another state to get it, last lbs the place had.

[AtomHeartMother]

Will run my 800x loads over a chrony this weekend, see how they do. Finally scored some power pistol for my 357 sig and 45 super loads, had to be in another state to get it, last lbs the place had.
Please do ! I'd be curious to see how it's performing. I grabbed the powder on a whim...because it was there...hard times for availability and all. Seems great for my application so far....not working it hard though. Consensus seems to be to keep pressures under 10k in these conversions but that puts me right in 45 acp area and I'm content with that.

[JeffG]

I loaded up some 45 LC rounds, 258 gr Lee RF ahead of Alliant BE-86. Hopefully I can chronograph them this coming weekend and will post that.

[retread]

anyone try the ETR7 pistol powder in 45 colt?

I have not yet but will be soon. Look on the previous page, looks like bangerjim has tried some.

[brad925]

Gonna try some IMR4227. HS-6 covers alot of different weight bullets.

[lbaize3]

Reloader #7 works very well in 45 Colt.

Scratch that thought. I went back and checked my data and RL-7 was used in a carbine...not a pistol.

[Tackleberry41]

Finally got to shoot some of them. 8.6gr of 800x, Lee 230gr LFN tumble lubed sized to 452. 737FPS lo - 802FPS hi, es of 64. I don't have any of the Unique ones loaded to compare them.

[AtomHeartMother]

Finally got to shoot some of them. 8.6gr of 800x, Lee 230gr LFN tumble lubed sized to 452. 737FPS lo - 802FPS hi, es of 64. I don't have any of the Unique ones loaded to compare them.

Thanks for the numbers ! Looks like I could work up my load a little. Your numbers are right where I'd like to be. Gonna chrono mine first just to be safe though. Shooting mine thru 8 and 18 inch barrels(latter revolving carbine).

[smkummer]

Unique works for me, 9 grains and Lyman's 454190 sized to .454 with wheel weight alloy dropped into water and 900 FPS. All my Colts (SAA, New Frontier, Anaconda and New Service) shoot this load so well, I won't change. I may try the Red Dot load someday. I obtained some Herco and just tried 9.0 grains and it was fine but it appears I have to go to 9.5 to simulate the Unique load of 9.0. 700X works great for reduced cowboy loads and a 200 grain bullet. It also work fine with the 250 grain if I only want 800 FPS.

[philthephlier]

HS6 works very well.

[THerbert]

I'll agree with Red Dot -- had to go to using that when I couldn't get Trailboss for an extended period. Alliant publishes Cowboy loads for it in all of the common cowboy calibers. I was using 5.9 grains in my .44-40 and .45 Colt, 200 grain boolits in both. Good loads. I'm sure someone mentioned this already, but make sure you use a good, firm crimp to get the pressure up in the case before the bullet starts to move -- this will help with sooting on the brass and lessen unburned powder in the gun. It will also give more consistent velocities.

[AggiePharmD]

I'm using 5 gr of TB over a 250 gr boolit or 17 gr of 2400. The TB load is too light as there is soot blow back on the cases where the mouth doesn't expand enough to seal the chamber throats. The 2400 is super accurate in my Henry BB and as long as I do my part it'll work in my Vaquero, too. 2400 is by far my favorite powder.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just scored another pound of Unique at a LGS. They got 10 pounds in.

[DanM]

+1 on Titegroup in 45 Colt! Super accurate in my 25-5 with 250SWCs and 255FNs.

[Tackleberry41]

I will load some of the unique loads that were giving me an issue to see if it was the gun, and compare to the 800x loads.

Picked up some reloader 7 to try in my rifle.