Recommendations for the Pedersoli Quigley Sharps

[Cactus5479]

I am new to single shot rifles but have been fascinated for years. I just bought a Pedersoli Quigley Sharps (I know, influenced by the movie) in .45-70. I would like to shoot cast bullet loads to start, but I find ammo manufacturers offerings running from .457 to .459 diameter and BHN of 12 to 22. I will eventually cast and load my own, and will be back for more advice, but I could sure use some good info now.

[Bohica793]

Slug the barrel to determine optimum diameter. For me, 12-14BHN works wonderfully but I only shoot at Trapdoor load levels.

[NSB]

The Pedersoli Quigley Sharps is what got me started on shooting these habit forming guns. I went to a three gun shoot at Hollidaysburg, Pa, and one of the "evil" members lured me in by letting me shoot his at a 18"x18" gong at 250 measured yards....off hand. I hit it five times in a row and the hook was set. I've owned three Pedersoli Sharps since then and they all shot very, very well. They also had the same bore diameter. Pedersoli makes some of the best quality barrels to be had at any price. If you get .459" 405g Oregon Trail bullets to try in your gun they will shoot very well. On the days where I could see the sights well enough, I've shot some five shot groups right around an inch and one time shot a group into .75". This was with 2400 powder. A very soft load but very accurate. These bullets are easy to get and very affordable. If you load bullets now, I'll send you some to try if you'll simply pay the postage. I'm sitting on quite a lot of cast and jacketed bullets for my 45-70s at this time. I can spare a couple.

[Cactus5479]

NSB,

Many thanks! I will take you up on the offer. I just got a set of RCBS Cowboy .45-70 dies.

According to the Pedersoli web site, the barrel has a 1-18 twist. I don't know how that translates into what weight bullet to shoot, but I'll leave that up to you. How do I send you the postage fee?

[Cactus5479]

Bohica,

I plan to shoot softer loads at about the same velocities most of the time. The range I normally shoot at has 100m and 200 targets. Thanks.

[NSB]

Just send the six bucks back to the return address on the USPS small flat rate box. I'll send you some 405g and some 350g. As far as I know, Pedersoli uses the same twist rate on all their 45 barrels. You'll find that the heavier bullets shoot better, but try some of each. The 350s didn't shoot too bad. Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll try to get them out Saturday (I'm leaving for turkey hunting today so I won't have time until then). I'll make sure you get six dollars worth of bullets!

[zuke]

I use to cast LEE 500ge and size them down to 452 then use onion skin to bring it up to 459/460

[country gent]

I have the Pendersoli Long range sharps with 1-18 twist 34" half octagon barrel. Its a great shooter Ive loaned it out a couple times to friends and so far before it comes home again a check is offered first trying ( Its sitting here right now). They are very nice rifles and solid performers normally. Mine really shines with the heavier bullets cast soft from 20-1 lead/tin alloy. A case full of 1 1/2f or 2F black powder ( Goex old ensford or swiss whatever is available to you). compressed with a wad to the depth of the bullets base. and make gongs ring. Several things you will also want wiith this rifle if loadiong real Black powder is a die to dedicate to compressing powder, a blow tube, wiping rod, A cleaning stand for at the range, Blow tube, cleaning stand can be made with simple drill press and hand tools. My stand is built into a tool box on the ends of it. This gives me storage for alot of the extras. and the cleaning cradle supports/holds the rifle when Im not. Buffalo arms, Trac of the Wolf and Dixe gun works also have the above accesories. If using black powder use a bullet lube meant for it SPG or some others this helps control fouling much better. Start by slugging you barrel I would drive a soft oversied slug in 2-3" from chamber and back out. Another from muzzle 2-3" and one clear thru. 1 and 2s dimension will tell you if the barrel has some choke to it ( most do) 3 will show and tight spots. Measure the bullet you wish to load bearing surface (base to front of driving band) slowly fill a case to this point with powder + .060. Wieght this charge as it is your starting load for this bullet. With a wad ( .020-.060 milk carton, card board, playing card, cork gasket material) compress to where the bullet is at the needed depth. If possible hand seat the bullet onto the wad and lightly crimp.

[rfd]

i have a pair of pedersoli rifles, bodine rem rolling block in .45-70gov't and silhouette sharps in .40-65win. you have a Very fine rifle. you really should start casting and loading your own bullets and don't bother buying commercial cartridges that will be inferior (for the most part) to any you will make.

what will you mostly do with your sharps - target, hunt, or some of each? what kind of distances, what type of critters?

powder - smokeless or black, or both?

lots to think about, decisions are easy as is casting, loading and shooting your rifle - promise!

for the very most part, there is no need to slug the barrel as you'll find the pedersoli's in .45-70 will work fine with a .459" bullet - either sized or loaded as cast. i would suggest avoiding all hard cast commercial cartridges ... there are a few vendors that will sell cartridges that are better suited using 1:20 alloy bullets, and you can buy the 1:20 bullets and build yer own rounds. the .45-70 experience isn't complete, nor will you achieve its best accuracy, until you build your own rounds.

[Don McDowell]

18 twist barrels generally do best with bulllets over 450 grs, and Pedersoli's usually do their best work with bullets at .460 diameter.

[rfd]

i've had 3 pedi's, currently have a pair, and there are at least 4 other pedi's that my friends are shooting. with the .45-70 and an 18" twist, i can attest to the short range (200-300yd) accuracy of 414gr lyman 457193 that cast at .459" and are left unsized, at just over 1moa off of a bench rest. long range will *generally* work better with heavier, longer lead. soft alloys rule, too, starting at 1:20.

the bottom line to the op is - you have a fine rifle, and if yer looking for best accuracy, you'll really want to cast yer own bullets and load yer own cartridges. experimentation is the name of this game, and that means feeding the rifle what it wants rules.

[pjames32]

RFD's suggestion of 457193 worked pretty good in my rolling block 1-18 twist. I'm trying NOE's 480gr now to see if accuracy improves with a heavier bullet. My 350gr NOE was not accurate.
PJ

[Don McDowell]

. I'm trying NOE's 480gr now to see if accuracy improves with a heavier bullet.
PJ
It seems like about any 45-70 you get ahold of will work pretty well with a 480 gr grease groove bullet, and that may be the optimal weight, so long as the bullet diameter and the chamber are compatible.

[rfd]

besides the short range lyman 457193 415 grain flat nose, the lee 459-500-3r 500 grain spitzer has worked reasonably well for me, but it eats more lead and i don't like that double cavity mould. however, for 300 yards/meters and out a bit further, these 480-490 grain lyman bullets work well for me, the 457658 and 457677, i think they'd be fine for nra silhouette if the rifle liked 'em too.

[Cactus5479]

Folks,

I am overwhelmed with the generosity in time, advice, and encouragement shown above. I have a lot to learn and am sure I will enjoy the trip. Thanks for the tips on heavier, softer bullets. Many of the cast bullet manufacturers offer fairly hard bullets, generally from Lyman #2 or the 92-6-2 alloy, which, I believe, run around BHN 16 or so. If I understand what I read here, my accuracy may be better with a softer alloy like 20:1, which is a BHN of 10 or 11. Early on, I probably will not shoot much beyond 200 yds until I get a feel for the rifle. However, once that is achieved, and once I learn the art of casting good bullets, look out! While not in the class with Matthew Quigley, I can proudly say I have yet to miss the backstop :D.

Fair warning - I will be back for more advice and counsel. I am very appreciative of everything you have offered.

[Lead Fred]

Two words: Paper Patch

I shot lube grooved boolits though my 30 inch barrel, and they were so-so.

A 540gr paper patch boolit shoots way flatter

[Cactus5479]

I'm back already. The question is flat base versus beveled base for smokeless powder loads. There is a lot of opinion, but not much evidence offered. Does one lead more than the other or is trickier to reload for accuracy?

Final question (for today) is what powder and charge weights have worked well for you? For example, NSB has had some outstanding results in his rifle with harder 405 gr bullets and 2400 powder producing loads in the 1400 fps range.

Thanks!

[Don McDowell]

Probably doesn't really matter on the base, they can both shoot well.
Hard bullets really aren't the problem some make them out to be..
2f black is the best, 5744 and Blackhorn 209 close behind.

[rfd]

always flat base, never bevel base. a wad, too, even if white powder powered.

[NSB]

I'd stay away from any wads with smokeless powder unless you want to risk ringing your barrel. Do a search on here and find out about using fillers (which are rarely needed at all) and the dangers of using wads with anything but black powder.

[rfd]

nope, not all smokeless powders are alike, and many should be avoided for modern replicas. aa5744 is meant for 19th century replicas - read the load data, which is trad door rated. NO FILLERS are required or needed with this powder (again read the manufacturer's load data - they do not recommend the use of any type of case filler with 5744). used as indicated, the chamber and barrel pressures are within or even under those of the holy black. this powder will be the easiest to get started loading up the .45-70, and the resulting rounds can be extremely accurate. imho, black powder will require *far* more knowledge and thinking than a *proper* white powder, and as such it can be far more dangerous to load than the simple loading require for the white stuff. as to wads, they're required for black but not for white, though i will use wads with white to protect the bullet base as well. aa5744 is very accurate, and has been used by a number of excellent long range shooters to win or place in matches. for real 19th century rifles in good working condition, black powder is mandatory.

[Don McDowell]

Unless your smokeless powder fills the case to the base of the bullet adding a wad to that mix is more likely to give you a ringed chamber than not.

[rfd]

all depends on the wad thickness. a thin .025" card wad that fits snugly in the case and up against the bullet's base won't ring a chamber. it becomes a "gas check" of sorts.

[Don McDowell]

If it stays there..

[NSB]

I'm with Mr. McDowell on this one.

[Cactus5479]

Has anyone used Range Lead or Wheel Weight Lead from TheCaptain?

[Knarley]

18 twist barrels generally do best with bulllets over 450 grs, and Pedersoli's usually do their best work with bullets at .460 diameter.

Ahhhh....... another piece to the puzzle. I guess no more sizing....way cool!!

Knarley

[rfd]

If it stays there..

a moot point for me as now i only load with that nasty black stuff that requires a wad or two. :drinks:

[rfd]

Ahhhh....... another piece to the puzzle. I guess no more sizing....way cool!!

Knarley

generalities are just that. rifles and shooters are unique. best to do yer own testing.

my .45-70 pedi roller has a 1:18 barrel and it does pretty well with a 415 grain 1:20 at the short marks, clearly better than my old eyes and trigger finger. :veryconfu

[rfd]

Has anyone used Range Lead or Wheel Weight Lead from TheCaptain?

you wanna put *that* stuff through yer pedi's barrel??? :shock:

[montana_charlie]

Pedersoli's usually do their best work with bullets at .460 diameter.Ahhhh....... another piece to the puzzle. I guess no more sizing....way cool!!

Knarley
When Pedersoli decided to have Dr. Dick Gunn design a bullet specifically for the chamber in their Sharps rifle, the final version was spec'd at .460" diameter.

CM

[Chill Wills]

you wanna put *that* stuff through yer pedi's barrel??? :shock:

I would in a heart beat. I can not find anything wrong with it.

[Red River Rick]

I would in a heart beat. I can not find anything wrong with it.

I second that.

It's not like your putting the lead, dirt and all thru your barrel. Proper fluxing will remove all the crud.........

RRR

[Don McDowell]

Has anyone used Range Lead or Wheel Weight Lead from TheCaptain?

Have not used any from him, but have bought it from other places. Most folks do a pretty decent job of fluxing the junk out when they pour the ingots , but even at that Red River Rick gives good advice, just flux it good when casting .

[Don McDowell]

Ahhhh....... another piece to the puzzle. I guess no more sizing....way cool!!

Knarley

The one I had , and a couple others I'm familiar with gave the best results with .460 or slightly over. Panlubing without sizing was the way to go. The other Italian I still have, would be really tickled if you could feed it .462 greasers.. but paper patching saves finding moulds that will drop that large.

[Red River Rick]

I have a Pedersoli, Long Range Competition in 45-90. The groove diameter measures at 0.4595" - 0.460". With the greaser moulds that I have, most drop bullets at 0.460 - 0.4605", using a 96-2-2 mix.

I just pan lube my bullets and run them thru a 0.460 sizing die in my Lyman Luber/sizer. I could probably do away running them thru the sizing die and still be OK.

RRR

[Knarley]

My new moulds & one old one drop .460's.........pan lubing works great.............gonna let 'er buck & see what happens.
All it can do is............not work.