unrealistic goals

[unclebill]

my wife says i am too hard on myself when it comes to my shooting goals.
i will set a impossible standard for something and beat my brains out trying to achieve it.
but
every once in a while i will actually do what sounds impossible for me.
and so that keeps me trying
999 out of 1000 is failure
but that 1 keeps me on the hamster wheel of accuracy
what brought this speech on is
i was thinking about that group i shot recently that was 3 shots at 300 meters 0.259 inches out of a pistol
i dont see how i can do that twice
but that aint gonna stop me
i got the taste of blood now https://www.gunandgame.com/styles/default/xenforo/clear.png
my new goal is 5 shots in an inch same distance and gun

[FergusonTO35]

Being able to only place three shots instead of five into a group of .259 at 300 meters with a pistol is a good problem to have!

[Mk42gunner]

Dang, I thought I was doing good to finally put six into 1¼" at 25 yards.

Robert

[Radarsonwheels]

So are we talking about a scoped thompson contender shot from a viced rest? I often shoot my ruger super blackhawk at 200 yards at a 10"x18" plate. With full house h110 under speer JHPs I can hit 4 or 5 out of 6. This is seated with my elbows on a table using a generous hold over on a 2x long relief scope. Even with the 2x scope my fine crosshair covers a good portion of the plate.

I can get similar results to yours (but only at 200 yards) with my AR shooting precision handloads from a tripod. Reading the wind becomes more important and the crucial ingredient is a 50mm 20x scope that allows me to see not only a small bullseye but also my heartbeat.

So I'm not calling BS on you but I'd like more info on your setup- it sounds pretty implausable and at handgun velocity a bullet would have enough arc and hangtime to make wind such a factor that a sub 2" group would be a lot of luck. I'm currently trying to shrink my 1911 groups from 3" offhand at 25 yards and I'm a decent shot. Of course the bullseye people are unreal, but thats at 50 yards...

[Porterhouse]

I have a feeling this thread is going to turn into the debate of equipment, like what gun, what load, etc. But I take your writing more about the mental status of the shooting game.
I have a same kind of problem. Probably different from your goal but have my own, and for many people it's impossible. But, I luck out very once in a while and get taste of the success. So I keep trying to repeat or beat it but like you, 999 out 1000 times that doesn't happen. What do we do? Guess just shoot more and try not to be mad, frustrated, or sad with those 999 failures. This is the hardest thing, at least for me...

[Love Life]

Heck yeah. It's good to see you chasing to improve! Keep shooting and practicing and you'll reach your goal.

[Artful]

If you can envision it - it's not impossible - just takes time and money.

example . . . Star Trek Replicator - these guys are doing it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/05/us-israel-meals-on-demand-tracked-idUSKBN0NQ1PG20150505

[FergusonTO35]

Everybody has different skills, gifts, and desires. I've been shooting and hunting for 30 years and a good day for me is a 1-1/2" group roughly centered on bull at 7 yards with any of my handguns. I accept the reality that shooting (or any other task requiring good mental focus and hand to eye coordination) is not a natural ability for me and just try to have fun with it.

[Thumbcocker]

I continually try to make stubborn guns shoot as well as my accurate guns. The upshot is a spend much more time shooting and developing loads for less accurate guns while my proven accurate guns languish.

[M-Tecs]

Striving to improve the firearms, ammunitions and shooters accuracy is not an unrealistic goal. It does become an unrealistic goal if you are trying to duplicate something that was mostly luck. If your group was shot using an unlimited class bench rest pistol it is a very realistic goal. If it was shot using a semi-auto pistol that is a 5 MOA gun with ammunition that will only holds 3 minutes out of the factory test barrels it becomes a very unrealistic goal.

[unclebill]

I have a feeling this thread is going to turn into the debate of equipment, like what gun, what load, etc. But I take your writing more about the mental status of the shooting game.
I have a same kind of problem. Probably different from your goal but have my own, and for many people it's impossible. But, I luck out very once in a while and get taste of the success. So I keep trying to repeat or beat it but like you, 999 out 1000 times that doesn't happen. What do we do? Guess just shoot more and try not to be mad, frustrated, or sad with those 999 failures. This is the hardest thing, at least for me...
yes
you nailed it
i was talking about the mindset
and as far as being called a liar
i dont care if anyone believes me or not
i was there and know what i did
always trying to improve is what i am up to

[dualsport]

This is fishy as heck. I'm not buying it. J frame .38? Why not, it's your story.

[unclebill]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/marked%20target%20photo_zpsehxcvyer.png (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/marked%20target%20photo_zpsehxcvyer.png.html)

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/10442933_1123360347689690_3665013147398077512_n_zp s9dhe9hwr.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/10442933_1123360347689690_3665013147398077512_n_zp s9dhe9hwr.jpg.html)

<a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/022_zpsa4069f3a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/022_zpsa4069f3a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 022_zpsa4069f3a.jpg"/></a>

[unclebill]

This is fishy as heck. I'm not buying it. J frame .38? Why not, it's your story.

just because YOU cant do it
doesnt make it impossible
:kidding:

[Love Life]

PooPoo the naysayers and stay at it.

[dualsport]

Ouch! Ok, maybe you did do it. If so I call it truly amazing shooting.

[MarkP]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/marked%20target%20photo_zpsehxcvyer.png (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/marked%20target%20photo_zpsehxcvyer.png.html)

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/10442933_1123360347689690_3665013147398077512_n_zp s9dhe9hwr.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/10442933_1123360347689690_3665013147398077512_n_zp s9dhe9hwr.jpg.html)

<a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/022_zpsa4069f3a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/022_zpsa4069f3a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 022_zpsa4069f3a.jpg"/></a>

Where is your range? Looks like NE, SD, WY?

[M-Tecs]

I like your forend on your Contender. I have not seen that before.

[unclebill]

I like your forend on your Contender. I have not seen that before.
i made it from a block of delrin and aluminum pillars
it works quite well

[tward]

Good for you! Just got a G2 frame to go with my G1. Please elaborate on the setup you have for the Contender. Thanks, nice job! Nothing wring with 1 hole groups. Tim:bigsmyl2:

[FergusonTO35]

If someday I can duplicate that feat with my heavy barrel .257 Roberts I'll be ecstatic.

[unclebill]

Good for you! Just got a G2 frame to go with my G1. Please elaborate on the setup you have for the Contender. Thanks, nice job! Nothing wring with 1 hole groups. Tim:bigsmyl2:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/10660334_1123968470962211_4601306749715981082_n_zp synucaz6u.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/10660334_1123968470962211_4601306749715981082_n_zp synucaz6u.jpg.html)


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/016_zps32b7cc11.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/016_zps32b7cc11.jpg.html)

[unclebill]

i have a pretty raggedy homade setup
but excellent components where it counts
top of the line barrel-MGM .223rem 1-8 twist bull
extremely clear glass-viper vortex 6.5x20x44
and a great trigger-early non converted t/c contender with the best trigger out of the box i have ever seen
my fore end and rest are very solid
ugly but solid

[tazman]

When you design a gun to do one thing extremely well, that right there is what you come up with. Congratulations on a job well done.

[44man]

yes
you nailed it
i was talking about the mindset
and as far as being called a liar
i dont care if anyone believes me or not
i was there and know what i did
always trying to improve is what i am up to
I darn sure believe you but you will go down in history with me as the biggest liar ever. Difference is I use revolvers that just can't do it. :kidding:

[williamwaco]

Given enough attempts, anything that can happen - will happen. If he tries long enough it will happen again.

I once fired a 5 shot 100 yard group that made a perfectly round hole that measured 0.21" from a .22 hornet with a 4x Weaver scope. It has not happened again?

[Radarsonwheels]

Gonna start an equipment debate? Nope I just was asking if he was shooting what I would call a pistol or a tiny rifle that the ATF calls a pistol!! His achievement is remarkable in any case my point was just that in order to repeat those groups you'd need a big scope to even see a bull that small, rifle or at least intermediate cartridge velocity, and some kind of rest to get steady.

But apparently you ARE shooting a scoped contender from a rest!! Good job and keep chasing perfection!

[Bzcraig]

Striving to improve IS what keeps the head in the game. Failing is NOT failure unless you don't try again! If I do better with each attempt, regardless of degree, it is a success. If not, I go back and compare what was different. But I am starting to think remembering where the range is, is a win and not because I don't visit often enough!

[rintinglen]

One of any thing proves nothing--Jesus rose from the dead, but that is not the statistical average.

However, that is truly awesome shooting! Keep at it and who knows? We may someday be looking at your 1 inch, 5 shot group. :-)

[FergusonTO35]

Every now and again things justcome together perfectly, even for a hack like me. My pawn shop rescued Marlin Glenfield 30 will produce groups hovering a little over an inch at 100 yards consistently, and thats with a hunting bullet and compact 1-4×20 scope off a Caldwell not-so-Steady Rest. At least a few times a year she rewards me with a 3/4" or even 5/8" group.

[Love Life]

People who can't will always poopoo those who can and have.

[MtGun44]

Well done, and pursuit of excellence, real excellence not the once in a lifetime
lucky group, is a worthy pursuit. I have seen enough amazing shots and done
a few myself to never doubt that a feat can be done. Some of what I have seen,
even the shooter knew that a repeat would take a lifetime of trying because it
was about 50% skill and 50% luck. Looks like yours is up in the 90% or more
skill at shooting and at problem solving. I expect it takes a really good bit of
luck with getting the wind right, though. In the end, wind is the nemesis for this
kind of work, never fully under control.

Congratulations!

[Cornbread]

Most people can't shoot that good at that distance with a rifle in a lead sled. If I shot a group like that with a pistol at 300 yards, I don't care if it was repeatable or not, I'd probably frame the picture of it and put it up on my desk.

[white eagle]

as long as you set personal goals for yourself what does it hurt if you don't meet them ?
if and when you you meet them you can smile to yourself and be on the road to better that
keep at it have fun

[muddcatt54]

Very good shooting and I believe it to be so some days everything seems to line up although those days are rare we all have them our goals are different and and different degrees of difficulty not many would attempt yours Congratulations

[contender1]

I see a purpose built, custom set-up firearm to achieve serious accuracy.
I see a shooter who admits he has an exceptional group, and is HOPING to duplicate it.
I see a grouping on a target that shows the skill, the equipment, and all other minor factors aligning to reward the shooter with an exceptional grouping on a target.

As a handgunner, who uses a T/C a lot, as well as many other handguns, I can appreciate how hard it is to achieve this. I also see how hard it is to duplicate this, and as such, it's the journey trying to duplicate or even better this that makes it fun for the shooter.

I have had many, many handgunners prove to me that a good group isn't impossible, but likely improbable for most.

Some call such things luck.
Some will call BS.
Some will call the shooter a liar, (which I find a bit impolite, as they have no way to properly judge things.)

Some will praise the shooter.
Some will remain silent & just wonder.
Some will use the OP comments as a way to challenge themselves beyond their own abilities.
Some will see the custom set-up & say it's the equipment.
Some will stop & think about the fact that silhouette shooters have been hitting stuff out to 200 meters for decades, with handguns & realize it's highly possible.

Myself?
I will say it's highly possible, as well as probable. But, I was not there to call BS or truth. I will say that I have personally seen enough to know it's very likely. And I will not be the type of person to call anybody a liar if I can not back up my statement. My parents taught me to be polite. My parents taught me accept things until I could prove my views if they were different than what was presented.

So, give the OP the benefit of the doubt, and accept his post as it is. A testimony of an act he was proud of, AND his desire to achieve an even better result.

[unclebill]

i really dont know if i will ever be able to do this again
for one thing .it is extremely rare to have an absolutely windless day here
i am leaning towards it being simple dumb luck
i cant even SEE hits at that distance with my 20x scope
but it sure is fun trying!

[Love Life]

I pretty much follow Contender1's line of thinking. I've seen good shooters get solid groups with regular guns, and I've seen crappy shooters shoot crappy groups with high end target guns.

Unclebill- Get you some wind flags if you don't already use them. Turn every day into a good shooting day by learning to dope wind.

[unclebill]

I pretty much follow Contender1's line of thinking. I've seen good shooters get solid groups with regular guns, and I've seen crappy shooters shoot crappy groups with high end target guns.

Unclebill- Get you some wind flags if you don't already use them. Turn every day into a good shooting day by learning to dope wind.
i need a LOT of practice reading wind.
for me that is the single hardest thing about shooting
back when a person could actually find .22lr to buy i used to practice with it fairly often

[44man]

I am with you Bill. I was a varmint hunter long ago, had a pre 64 WW .220 Swift that I bedded and floated. I had a Balvar 24 scope on it. I never shot under 1" at 100 with my load. I sighted at 350 yards. Had the gun apart and scope off once for work and needed to sight again. I shot a 1/4" group of five at 350 yards and shot chucks in the head beyond 600 yards.
Been called a liar many times. My Remy .222 would do 1/2" at 200 all day. My Mark V Weatherby never shot over 1/2" at 100, .300 mag. I head shot a chuck at 550 yards with it from sitting once.
I have shot more 1/2" groups at 100 with revolvers so I am never believed either. Nobody would believe my single shot pistols.
But age does funny things so as we keep trying, things do not keep up. I could never do what I did anymore.
More important then anything is the memories. Some say luck but it is knowing your gun and plain hard work.

[gpidaho]

uncle bill, Nice set up and a great shot! Shots like these keep us all striving for our best even when flyers sometimes fly in instead of out lol GP

[Love Life]

i need a LOT of practice reading wind.
for me that is the single hardest thing about shooting
back when a person could actually find .22lr to buy i used to practice with it fairly often

It's fun. Great thing about learning to shoot in Nevada is the wind was always blowing!

[leeggen]

Dang at first I thought he had studderd on the keys and added one tomany 0's. But not to be one to call out I waited to see his set-up. After seeing it I am just tickled pink you hit a group like that. Beleive it or not I beleive you will bang one even closer than the onne you just showed us. Keep banging and setting those goals, that is what makes this affliction so enjoyable.
CD

[unclebill]

still trying
this time 200 meters
1.052
0.755
0.976
1.951
1.045


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/11209584_1133516496674075_8148209014405670264_n_zp s5xxxjext.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/11209584_1133516496674075_8148209014405670264_n_zp s5xxxjext.jpg.html)

[44man]

Super! But you have not learned a hand cannon is not supposed to shoot like that. :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[unclebill]

i shot 7 groups of 3 shots each at 200 meters with my 223 contender pistol
then entered the data in an averaging finding calculator
results
1.2752857142857 inches

[unclebill]

i stink at math. but i am great at letting a computer spit out big numbers!

[unclebill]

And for those that don't like the significant digits, here that is converted to Parsecs...1.04976156 × 10-18 Parsecs.

[unclebill]

i came up with 0.625 moa

[unclebill]

so it looks like my goal of 5 shots in an inch at 300 meters is for sure possible
the gun has proven itself
the question is can I do it?

[44man]

so it looks like my goal of 5 shots in an inch at 300 meters is for sure possible
the gun has proven itself
the question is can I do it?
I am the loose nut behind a good gun so we just have to live with that. I wish I could go back 50 years. I once shot 5 shots into 3/8" at 100 with my MOA and open sights. Here are a few and some are 200 meters. 139804 That little pistol at the top is unreal. Wichita in 7R. The 30-30 TC was crazy, hit pennies at 100 with cast but barrel was rough as a cob, sold it to a friend.
Those days are gone.
To even tell me a pistol is not better then a rifle means you want a sore butt. My shoe is size 13!

[1Shirt]

It is logical to have goals even if they are never attained!
1Shirt!

[unclebill]

instead of a rear bag i use a wooden wedge with a thin leather covering. bags move too much for mehttps://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/s261x260/11351305_1137286239630434_7423030135090668247_n.jp g?oh=7be1cd22eac8970e691672fb580e9bd6&oe=55C59DC9

(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1137286239630434&set=p.1137286239630434&type=1)

[unclebill]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/11118503_1137380692954322_8453522163282676730_n_zp s9i0o9ay2.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/billhedges/media/11118503_1137380692954322_8453522163282676730_n_zp s9i0o9ay2.jpg.html)

[44man]

Can I buy that group from you?

[unclebill]

dug up my old spotting scope and going to set up some flagging as wind flags