300 blackout crimping issues

[Crazyrcflier]

Hi all. I am new to casting. I have cast up some lee 309-230 boolits and used Smokes powder coating on them. I ran the boolits thru my lee 309 sizer. I am using converted brass that I annealed and seated the boolits to 2.20 OAL.

My issue is crimping. No matter what I do the bullet doesn't crimp tight. I have tried the lee FCD and the crimp on my redding seating die. I have went from extremely light crimp and kept going heavier in little steps and it just won't hold the bullet. I have went so heavy I feel I have swaged down some of the boolits.

any suggestions?

[popper]

annealed- try sizing a few times on a couple cases and see it neck tension increases. Were these neck sized with the Lee tool?

[Crazyrcflier]

Ok. I tried 10 rounds. 7 crimped nicely with a light crimp, I can't twist the bullet in the case. The other 3 would never get tight. I pulled the rounds and used 3 different pieces of brass and they all crimped nicely just like the other 7 did.

I am am thinking my annealing process is a little inconsistent causing some cases to not get annealed properly and allowing more spring back. I am annealing with Tempilac and a drill, but I have the parts for an auto annealer.

I guess i better build the auto annealer and see if that will help.

[Crazyrcflier]

These were full length sized with a redding sizer screwed down all the way and then a little more to allow a cam over of the press.

[rockshooter]

fatter boolet, harder alloy
Loren

[RobsTV]

I don't even bother sizing them as they drop at .309 at their largest point. Only allows a very light crimp.

Have you tried them with cases that you did not anneal? Like most shooters, you might not even need to go through the trouble.

EDIT: The crimp is NOT what should hold the boolit in place. If you can move the boolit without a crimp, or with very little crimp, then neck tension is not enough. Crimping hard can also actually result in less neck tension. Perhaps it is the case sizing or flaring dies? Using a slightly modified Lee M1 30 Carbine powder through expander die here to flare/expand the case prior to seating. What is your case neck measurement prior to seating? Also try longer OAL. Those boolits here are closer to the normally recommended max length of 2.256 OAL, not the 2.20 like you load them.

[Crazyrcflier]

I used a Lyman M die to expand the necks. I only expanded as much as I had to in order to not shave the lead and powder coating off. I sized cause after coating cause the boolits were at .312.

[RobsTV]

Besides probable issues with annealing, it looks like you are seating them too deep.

After powder coating, the portion of the boolit above the tumble lube grooves is only measuring .304, and when seating to 2.256ish, only the grooves are in the neck with that .304 portion exposed. You would be trying to crimp to the .304ish area of the boolit when seating at 2.20. The lube groove area measures .311 after PC here. Driving band directly below the tumble lube grooves, I too see .312 after powder coating. But, no need to resize in slugged .308 barrel, as if they are a tad large, they will be slightly swagged down by the brass. Also, the Lee sizing dies typically size .0005 small, so your .309 might actually be .3085.

I would start with what basically works, then if needed for additional accuracy, look into annealing or boolit sizing. Sizing to .309 will most likely hurt any of the additional steps you are now doing more than leaving things alone. Note, for the Lee C312-155 boolit, I do run these through lee .311 sizer after PC (ends up being .3105).

from a post by 80hp at 300blktalk website:
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83177


http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/80hp/TL309-230-5R.jpg?t=1364468572

[fcvan]

I have not annealed any of my 300 brass (yet) and have not had the problems noted by the OP. I PC with either ESPC or ASBBDT, run them through the .311 sizer, and they feed/cycle just fine. Through my 300 blk AR pistol, they load and cycle just fine. When I tried them in the carbine they would not fully cycle which was no surprise. Since I don't use a suppressor I will work up a load that cycles in the carbine and call it a day . . . But dang, a suppressor would be fun!

[RobsTV]

To add to the above, these Lee 230gr 100% cycle and feed fine in non-suppressed Radical Firearms 16" AR using factory pistol length gas port and full 30 round unmodified Lancer mags.

[popper]

my thought is/was your annealing got them too soft - no spring back. Sizing/expanding a couple times should work harden the necks so they have some tension. After forming a hundred cases over the weekend, I think they got hot enough so I don't need to anneal right away. The TL grooves sometimes don't fill out to full size so as RobsTV states, not much neck tension. Some OP had a solution of really heavy ESPC on that boolit, then sizing. Almost makes it a flat base & fills the TL grooves but they shot good. Of course use dummy rounds to insure chambering.

[fcvan]

Rob, you are exactly right. The carbine has the gas port configuration. I don't see myself getting a carbine length barrel with a pistol gas port. I may just stick to subsonic in the pistol and supersonic in the carbine, or just load the 309-230 5R up until it cycles. We shall see.

[runfiverun]

you don't need to crimp for the 300 b.o.
what you need and what your problem is, is neck tension.
the cases with no neck tension are having a problem with the anneal.
you either don't have enough anneal, or you have too much.

[Moonie]

Size larger, at least .310.

[BK7saum]

Your brass sounds over-annealed. If over annealed there will be no springback and it will not hold a bullet or boolit very tightly at all. I have about 900 converted brass that has been fired multiple times and never been annealed. Still no splits at the neck.

Also you probably should not have to crimp with proper neck tension.

[bhn22]

I used a Lyman M die to expand the necks. I only expanded as much as I had to in order to not shave the lead and powder coating off. I sized cause after coating cause the boolits were at .312.

Did you try loading the .312 bullets? Would they chamber? If they chamber and unchamber freely, the bullets are not too large. Most necks for 308 bore cartridges often chamber .311 bullets without issue. Try loading one dummy round with an unsized bullet and see if it will chamber.

[BK7saum]

What lyman m dies expander are you using? 31R or 30 caliber expander?

A caliper measurement of the diameter will be sufficient.
Brad

[popper]

31R works for my 311 30/30, 30 for 310 AR 308.

[armexman]

You made just need a mentor that lives close enough that could actually help you.
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