CZ 527 in .357 Mag

[LAGS]

I have been toying with the idea of building a .357 bolt rifle on a CZ 527 M bare action.
The bolt head is the same diameter for the .357 Mag as it is for the 7.62 x 39.
I did some custom work on a friends 527 and love the action for a medium caliber rifle.
Any thoughts on a rifle set up on this action with a longer barrel like 20" to 22" and maybe a heavier contour than the standard CZ comes with.
Heck a stainless steel Fluted barrel might even be nice.

[lar45]

I have a 527 in 223 and really like it.
Ruger makes a 357 bolt action. There are 2 on GunBroker right now.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=480668473
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/480668000/480668473/pix543681411.jpg

I don't know what the Ruger 77-357 is going for, but it might be an option.

[LAGS]

Thank you, I will have to take a look at the Ruger.
But it is more of a custom build that I am looking to do, then just find one off the rack.
I like my rifles to be One of a kind, and built exactly the way I want them.
I will be building the stock from a blank also, and maybe even a pistol grip style like I built for my friends 527 with a spare magazine holder in the bottom of the buttstock.
I was even wondering how the rifle would do in .357 Maximum.
I like the 527 because of the small size of the receiver, the bolt wont have to be modified, and a single stack magazine works better for a Rimmed Cartridge, plus it has a Detachable magazine.
I also really like the single set trigger that comes on the action.
The only part of the build will be having the barrel threaded up for the action, since I do not have access to a lathe right now.
The only negitive comment I have about the CZ action is the scope rings.
They dovetail directly into the receiver, and limit the types of scope mounting options that can be done.
I like a seperate scope base and detachable rings, where I can use a turn in or Weaver style depending on the optics I choose.
That is the same issue I have with my Ruger 77's that I have owned over the years and I still have with the 77 tang safety model .308 I still have .

[GabbyM]

You can buy a rail for the 527 with Weaver top on it.

[kiwi]

You can buy some very nice European "German" scope mounting systems give the build a real class look.

[Artful]

Thank you, I will have to take a look at the Ruger.
But it is more of a custom build that I am looking to do, then just find one off the rack.
I like my rifles to be One of a kind, and built exactly the way I want them.
I will be building the stock from a blank also, and maybe even a pistol grip style like I built for my friends 527 with a spare magazine holder in the bottom of the buttstock.
I was even wondering how the rifle would do in .357 Maximum.

Like this one?
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527CSR1_zpsaf7e3935.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/527/527CSR1_zpsaf7e3935.jpg.html)

I don't see why the 357 Max wouldn't work well it's shorter than the 7.62x39 and with a custom barrel you can get the throat cut right.

[LAGS]

At Artful.
That is the rifle I built for "Armoredman "
I really love the way the stock fits both me and him .
The design works well for use with either the factory sights or a scope.
I made him the adjustable rear folding sight also , so he doesnt have to remove the rear sight when installing the scope.
The stock started out as a 3x8 piece of Africian Mahogony that one of armoredmans friends gave me.
I am too toying wuth the idea of a Switch Barrel design , and make up barrels in .357 mag, .357 maximum, 7.62x39 and maybe 6.5 Grendell.
And that spare magazine in the buttstock is handier than all get out.

[Whiterabbit]

6.5 Grendel would be the bee's knees.

So would a 357 max shooting 250 grain spitzers.

the 357 max would be like having your own kids version of a safari rifle.

[Artful]

Yeah, a boolit like Goodsteels 35 XCB
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,802.msg7032.html#msg7032
http://noebulletmolds.com/photos/albums/360-228-FN-35XCB-/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_360-228-FN_-GC-_227_gr_Sketch.Jpg
http://noebulletmolds.com/photos/albums/360-228-FN-35XCB-/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_360-228-FN_-PB-_229_gr_Sketch.Jpg

in 357 max will reach out and touch something

[Artful]

At Artful.
That is the rifle I built for "Armoredman "

Ain't google good - it found it and I just typed in what you described. :holysheep


I really love the way the stock fits both me and him .
The design works well for use with either the factory sights or a scope.
I made him the adjustable rear folding sight also , so he doesnt have to remove the rear sight when installing the scope.
Did you take any pictures to post for us? I hope you made a pattern Because I would think people would be wanting one and I would pay for a pattern to start carving off of.


The stock started out as a 3x8 piece of Africian Mahogony that one of armoredmans friends gave me.

I am too toying wuth the idea of a Switch Barrel design , and make up barrels in .357 mag, .357 maximum, 7.62x39 and maybe 6.5 Grendell.
And that spare magazine in the buttstock is handier than all get out.
Is the 6.5 Grendell cartridge a fit in those magazine's? I know 56mm for 7.62x39 OAL but 6.5 Grendell is 57.5mm OAL. Swap barrels are good - I have one made on a Post 64 Winchester 70 in '06 head and have barrels for 22-250, 243, 308, 30'06 and I'm thinking again about 35 Whelen or 35 XCB.

And I have a Small Ring Mauser converted to 7.62x39 feeding from WASR Magazines
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/th_762x39MauserWASRconversion.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/762x39MauserWASRconversion.jpg.html)
Don't think my stock will hold my mag's though :kidding:


I have a 9mm Destroyer Spanish Carbine in 9mm Largo and am also thinking of 7.62x25mm barrel for it.

[Whiterabbit]

6.5 Grendel will fit because the 527 is designed for 223 also. Might need new bottom metal and mag, but it has to be workable.

Worst case, you fit a 762 bolt to a 223 527.

[LAGS]

I have built that same style stock for one of my Mosin Nagants, and made two others for guys out of Hardwood flooring planks laminated together for their MN's.
I think I still have the basic patern around here somewhere.
But all my stocks are totally custom for each rifle or shooter.
In fact, the two I built out of the flooring material.
One in Walnut, and one in Cherry wood planking.
One guy was super tall and had arms like a gorilla, so I made the stock extra long for him.
His friend was left handed, so I made his with the wrist recess on the side of the buttstock on the left hand side for him.
It is just a hobby for me, and I only build for a select few people because I have a real job also and not much time.
Over the years I lost access to a Lathe, and to a Stock Duplicator.
But I build only a few stocks a year any more, and I dont want to make my customs a mass produced item.
So, I just cant see investing money in a whole bunch more tools, like if I was going to do it for a living.

[Artful]

Oh, put up a picture of your Mosin!

[LAGS]

I would love to post pictures, but My computer is so slow, it wont send pictures or even Download Photobucket.
Armoredman takes all the pictures of me or my guns.
He might be nice enough to post some for me.
I know Guns.
But when it comes to computers, I am at a loss.
The Mosin with the pistol grip stock , I call it an AKMN.
I built that one on a fluke with a short barrel, home made side mounted scope base, custom bolt handle , and the stock in done in Black Wrinkle Finish Paint.

[armoredman]

Let me see what i can find in my picture stash...

AKMN.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/LAGS/AKMN_zps8b978279.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/LAGS/AKMN_zps8b978279.jpg.html)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/LAGS/MNBolts003_zpsb29d141a.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/LAGS/MNBolts003_zpsb29d141a.jpg.html)

Incidentally, here's some better pictures of the spare magazine holder in the buttstock of my 527M that LAGS built into awesomeness;

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/magin_zps62de9a83.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/527/magin_zps62de9a83.jpg.html)

These two were from the final fitting, which is why part of the metal finishing are not perfectly blued.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527CSRmagout_zps8080d3f8.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/527/527CSRmagout_zps8080d3f8.jpg.html)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527CSRmagin_zpsc4ef3e3a.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/527/527CSRmagin_zpsc4ef3e3a.jpg.html)

[LAGS]

The AKMN started out as a Westinghouse 1891 that was rebuilt by the Finns.
It had an abused bore that is .315 and the last three inches of the barrel had pitting and cleaning wear.
So, I lopped off the barrel and recrowned it.
The stock started out as a Pattern to use on a Duplicator.
But the guy who had the duplicator that I could use, moved to North Carolina.
So the pattern got a coat of fiberglass resin and sprayed with Black Wrinkle Paint.
I made the scope mount and the Dog Legged Bolt handle, as well as the Spoon style bolt handle laying below the rifle.
The Cheek rest is also removable for shooting with the open sights, with or without the scope mount in place.
Just a Tid Bit of info;
The stock , since it was only going to be a Pattern , is cut out of some 1x6 Poplar planks that I bought at Home Depot.
I just laminated three of them together, then cut out the stock with a hand saw since i didnt have a Bandsaw at the time.
All of it is shaped and inletted by hand.

[LAGS]

One thing that the pistol grip stock on either rifle does, is lessen the Felt Recoil.
The 527 in 7.62x39 isn't an issue but when you cut a MN down from 29" to 20 inches, it can kick like a mule.
The straight pull directs the recoil straight back , and the web of your hand absorbes much of the rearward movement.
It also is very quick to the sholder and gives the rifle a more natural pointability.

[LAGS]

At Artful.
Do you know you can convert the 9mm largo destroyer to 9mm Luger with out changing the barrel.
I had some old Astra 400's that I made a ring that press fit into the front of the chamber and then I re-reamed the chamber to a shorter 9x19

[Multigunner]

I had some old Astra 400's that I made a ring that press fit into the front of the chamber and then I re-reamed the chamber to a shorter 9x19
Something of the sort has been done to convert .32 French longue pistols to .32 ACP.
They used a .30 carbine steel cartridge case to cut the ring from. No need for reaming with that conversion, though the larger rim of the ACP cartridge can pose a problem.
I was able to use .32 ACP in mine without an insert, but the rim caused the loaded chamber indicator's pivot pin to wallow out it's hole.

That wouldn't be a problem with a true rimless like the 9X19.

If a steel case 9mm cartridge can be found that would be the easiest way to obtain the needed ring insert.

They suggest coating the ring with lock tight before insertion. One firing expands the ring to a tight fit.
Silver solder might work but silver solder can be eaten away by ammonia based solvents.

[LAGS]

It looks like there is more intrest in my stocks then in a custom caliber conversion.
Well, If I ever get some free time, I will just have to colaberate with Armoredman and knock out a post on one of my stock builds.

[Bushwacker4]

I have read a lot of information here. Has any one built a 357 Max bolt action and if so, can I get some details. Or posibly a name of some one that can help me build or get one built?

Thanks You.

[JHeath]

Been thinking a CZ 527 .223 could easily be barreled to shoot shortened 5.56 brass opened up to .357 or 9mm, at a case length similar to a Max.

Basically an updated .351 WSL, but could probably take higher pressure.

I'm assuming it would feed.

Brass would be plentiful.

[Blackwater]

If a gunsmith friend's eperience is relevant in the .45/70 he made on a M-98 action, he told me the only real problem he had was getting the rimmed ctg. to feed. He said he had a devil of a time with that, but it'd sure make a very neat gun in either .357 or the Maxi. The .35/.223 would likely be an easier proposition in getting it to feed, but it's all speculation until you get into these type projects. If you git-r-done, please post pics. I and I'm sure a lot of others would really be interested in them. I really like the concept.

[Whiterabbit]

Seems to me a better cartridge would be the 358 gremlin, based on the 7.62 527. Just rebarrel and go. No rim issues. Only bummer is its not a true straight wall, but its still a micro action 358 with lots of punch.

[JHeath]

Seems to me a better cartridge would be the 358 gremlin, based on the 7.62 527. Just rebarrel and go. No rim issues. Only bummer is its not a true straight wall, but its still a micro action 358 with lots of punch.

Straight walled cases would be the point of expanding 5.56 brass to make a rimless Max. Somebody must already have done this.

Saves gas-check-below-neck anxiety syndrome.

[JHeath]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?165078-358-ar-from-223-brass-POSSIBLE

Looks like people have dabbled with it with ARs in mind. Challenging for ARs but might work better in a mini Mauser.

5.56 x 45 brass, shortened a bit, might be thick enough to provide headspacing on the neck.

.357 Max brass is almost 41mm.
.351 brass is about 35mm

5.56 brass is about 39.5mm to the shoulder.

Base diameters are similar enough.

Maybe you could chamber for .351 Win, then use 5.56 brass cut to 35mm and reamed, and run it 10k psi or 15k psi hotter than a .351.

Like a 9mm Super Cooper Max.

[BK7saum]

Cut down 300 blackout/whisper brass measures 0.011"-0.012" depending on manufacturer. You might not have to ream 5.56/223 cases.

[LAGS]

There have been a lot of nice options to convert the 527 to a larger projectile mentioned in this thread.
But my whole focus was to make a .357 Mag so it worked as a Companion Gun for my revolvers.
My Marlin .357 is nice, but I want to build something Custom in a Bolt Action for a Field Gun.
I want to be able to shoot the Heavier/ Longer Bullets out of the rifle like the 180 and 200 grain, but still have a rifle that will shoot the standard Pistol loads well.

[Whiterabbit]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?165078-358-ar-from-223-brass-POSSIBLE

Looks like people have dabbled with it with ARs in mind. Challenging for ARs but might work better in a mini Mauser.

5.56 x 45 brass, shortened a bit, might be thick enough to provide headspacing on the neck.

.357 Max brass is almost 41mm.
.351 brass is about 35mm

5.56 brass is about 39.5mm to the shoulder.

Base diameters are similar enough.

Maybe you could chamber for .351 Win, then use 5.56 brass cut to 35mm and reamed, and run it 10k psi or 15k psi hotter than a .351.

Like a 9mm Super Cooper Max.

My understanding is a 223 straightwall is a 338 cartridge, not 358.

[Whiterabbit]

Although I bet with the bolt and/or fixture to hold the casehead so it is centered, you could fireform or maybe even pre-expand then fireform a 223 case to make a (very very slightly) rebated rim .358-223.

Now you got the gears turning. I don;t see much about forming cases into rebate rim cases. That might be a pretty neat project for someone with the resources and the will.

[JHeath]

My understanding is a 223 straightwall is a 338 cartridge, not 358.

9x23 Win or Super Cooper can be made from 5.56 brass iirc. Base diameter is .377.

[GabbyM]

Given the excellent round a 30 Commie is I think I'd just stick with one factory made in 7.62x39mm.

For a cast bullet shooter good for game under a hundred pounds. The 222 Rem I bought in the LUX model depicted I my avatar is about as sweet as it gets. 60 grain boolit at 2,400 fps. Nothing has taken a step after being shot so far. Rats, Opossum and feral cats. You'd not think a 222 would be that much different than a 223 but it is. All good.

[Whiterabbit]

9x23 Win or Super Cooper can be made from 5.56 brass iirc. Base diameter is .377.

I see that now. Assuming the neck area is .01 that would work out nicely. Case would only be a little bulgy for the fire forming, and GTG after that.

There's a cool thought, I think there's more promise in that than 357 max.

[GabbyM]

Making cases from 223 brass would be laborious. I gave up on making 222 from 223 after the first 380 cases. But the 9x23 with off the shelf brass might be the way to go. You could use a bore ride bullet giving COL longer than would fit in a pistol. No mater it still will not kill as well or shoot targets as well as a 222. Unless you think a 357 mag revolver kills as well as an M16. Not trying to be a contrarian just pointing out well known fact.