First centerfire wheel gun help decide thread

[beroen]

I want to buy my first centerfire wheel gun good for possibly hunting with. I love the classic revolver look but would love a swing out doubleA to shoot uspsa with.

The ruger redhawk looks good but the one in 454 casual has a short barrell

I would love to be able to use .45acp boollets or 9mm boollets for plinking loads so I was thinking 45LC or 454c I don't know if using 9mm J words is feasible in .357. My old baby sitter that works at the LGS says you can't go wrong with a .357 mag ballistics wise


Any ideas suggestions, ballistic comments.

[Gofaaast]

.357 would cover your needs if your hunting whitetail sized animals and smaller. You will be able to plink with .38 special loads.

A 44 mag would work also, and have more power if that is what you want. 44 specials could be shot when plinking.


A 45 LC with a extra 45acp cylinder would also allow you a good combo, without having to use moon clips.

I have a 41 mag and it can be down loaded for plinking or loaded up for magnum work.

[Snow ninja]

Is the super redhawk in question one that is in your local gun store? Cause they make them with 7.5" and 9.5" barrels. Unless it just happens to be the Alaskan model with the 2.5" that is at the store. As far as shooting the rimless.45acp and 9mm, yes those will work provided you have moon clips, or another cylinder made for them, if not they will sometimes not fire and you have to individually punch them out to unload (in a double action. After that, it depends on what you're hunting, anything bigger than a whitetail, and I'd go with the .454. Hope this helps.

Added: I have a Ruger Blackhawk .357 convertible with cylinders for.357/.38, 9mm, and .38 super, which reminds me, I need to see if I can find one in.380... Lol

[GP100man]

4" GP100 357 Magnum , In NC you can use it for hunting , some states put limitations such as power factors & barrel lengths for handguns.
Handgun hunting takes discipline & good shot placement(with a 358429 or NOE 360-180rnfp) in the vitals, I don`t know of much of any animal that can go without lungs! But for bigger critters with appetites I`d opt for something that starts with a 4 or 5.

GP

[pworley1]

The 357 mag is a good place to start.

[Nobade]

454s aren't really much fun. I'd listen to these guys - a 357 is really useful and 38 spl is way more fun to shoot on a regular basis.

-Nobade

[Good Cheer]

Oh my. No one should deny themselves the experience of reloading for and mastering a .357.

In my case the first was a 4" Ruger Security Six (with bore constriction at the frame :roll:) that became the cast 38 ultimate wabbit slayer.

[Beagle333]

GP100. It is definitely the one. :D 6" half lug. 8-)

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

if your not in bear country , a GP100 in 357 is a fine gun , you will have a smith go over the trigger in any gun you intend to shoot competition with.

you do have to understand that just one pistol is unlikely they can become a bit of an addiction I would go the 357 route as you are likely to shoot it more and get better with it ,once you find you like handgun hunting you could get a more dedicated gun for it in a bigger round like 454

38/357 is a great round to learn to load for

[roberts1]

.357 or .44. Both can be loaded down for plinking or up for hunting. I think the biggest question is single or double action. I tend to prefer the feel of a single action revolver. You may need to shoot a few to figure that out for yourself. Consider also if you may want an optic and if it is possible to mount one on the model you are looking at.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i would skip the 357 if you plan on hunting with it just get a good 44 magnum you dont have to shoot full house loads all the time
or at all you can always down load i just like options and you will have more with a 44 then a 357

[beroen]

I see the super RH does have a long barrel version.

I wish the red hawk currently came in a .357 it looks like they used to make one in .357 but now they are rare and hard to find.


Witch one is brass going to be cheapest for?

[brassrat]

Maybe a nice, K frame, 4" S+W. A 6" might be better to hunt, but a 4" can be carried with a good rig. I do sometimes.

[ejcrist]

A wheelgun to use for both USPSA and hunting is a tall order. I can't think of much that would fit the bill and work well for both, and personally I'd get one for hunting and then another for USPSA, or in the reverse order depending on what you want to do most. I've shot IDPA but only with semi-auto's so I don't know much about what would work good revolver-wise for action shooting. I'm not being much help here am I? If you do want to get a revolver for double duty it'll likely be a compromise for the two sports.

I do a fair amount of handgun hunting so I might be able to add some value there. I'm a single action fan but I have a fair amount of DA's as well. I like the single actions for hunting because revolver handgun hunting is almost always done in single action mode unless you're trying to hit a charging rabbit or groundhog. Not saying it can't happen but I've never had it happen to me (yet). I have revolvers in quite a few calibers which of course includes the 357 and 44 magnums. After hunting with them all quite a bit I've gravitated to basically two calibers which are the 32 H&R magnum and the 45 Colt. For everything from javelina on down I use the 32, and everything bigger I use the 45. I also have a 454 Casull with a 45 Colt cylinder but I've never loaded any 454's yet. The 45 Colt when loaded hot is an extremely lethal round - about as much as I care to hunt with. The nice thing about the Colt is you can load it down for lighter shooting and it does extremely well. Regarding the 32 H&R, it's one of my favorite calibers even though it's not nearly as popular as the 357. I've used the 357 for varmints and it does well in that capacity, but of course it's a bit much for edible small game. Of course you can load 38 Specials in it but for that I prefer to use a dedicated 38 Special since mine are a lot lighter to pack than the 357.

You may not be interested in the 32 or 45 but the point I'm trying to make is it depends on what you want to hunt. If primarily deer size and larger I'd go with a minimum caliber of 44 since the 357 is a little light for deer. Not saying it can't be done but why make it harder than it has to be. If you're mostly hunting small game and varmints a 38 Special is hard to beat, or if you're like me any of the 32's (32 H&R, 327, 32-20) is heaven. These are just my opinions of course and you should go with what you like best, but I highly recommend 44 caliber and above for deer sized game and larger. I'd stay away from the big artillery like 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, etc. unless you're primarily going to hunt dangerous game. They're expensive hardware, expensive to shoot, and take a lot longer to learn to shoot well as a general rule.

[DougGuy]

Methbinks OP is trying to cover too many bases with one gun, a rather illogical school of thought, as the need for two centerfire revolvers is plainly evident. For the first one, I vote the time honored .44 Remington Magnum because it will do everything under the sun, except shoot mouse fart loads at targets. For this one needs a .357 that will let one shoot .38 Specials when needed.

[Whiterabbit]

my opinion: if you don't truly know what you want, then you need a 45 colt in a stout package capable of handling +p when you want to play rougher. 45 acp boolits shoot just fine too.

[rintinglen]

I vote with those who vote 357. I loaded and shot something over 80,000 38's and 357's before I ever got around to a 44. A good 4 inch double action 357 is about as good a compromise as you'll find. It will kill most anything up to the size of small deer, you can shoot targets, a couple of speed loaders will let you run with the IDPA crowd, and the recoil is liveable.

[220]

For years I got by with one centrefire, 6" 686. Not permitted to hunt with handguns here in Aus but having a 357 rifle I hunt with Im certain out of a handgun it would do the job on animals up to 200lb.
Never shot USPSA but shot ISSF with 38spl loads and an orthopaedic grip and was competitive, shoot quite a bit of service pistol, 38spl and 357 loads some good jet loaders and its surprising how quick a revolver can be, shot silhouette and plenty of plinking and fun.

[bob208]

get a.357 gp100 with 6 inch barrel. that will cover your needs. the nay sayers to the .357 have never used the original loads. there is a big difference between the loads of today and the first loads.

[Mauser48]

I just bought a 6 inch ruger gp100 stainless. I had a 4 inch before this one that I foolishly let go. i havent got the 6 inch of background check but I can already tell you I think its going to be a lot better than the 4 inch for my purpose. They are amazingly strong guns. For your purposes I would definitely get a 357. I would recommend the 4 inch if you are mainly shooting stuff close and using double action but for more of a range and hunting gun I would buy the 6 inch. You cant go wrong with any ruger. Dont let people push you into thinking that rugers suck and you need a smith. In my opinion the ruger is a far better handgun. The only thing the smith has going for it is the trigger. I do like the classic line of smiths though. Good luck!

[robertbank]

The only gun I caliber I can think of that fits both USPSA, IDPA and hunting would be the .357mag and I would recommend the GP-100 over the 686 Smith only because if yo go to hunting you want a gun that will take the heavy 357mag loads you will want to use for hunting. Shoot minor in USPSA revolver. The .38spl/.357 mag gun would fit better in IDPA over USPSA. The Rehawk and Super Redhawk are not going to be useful in either USPSA or IDPA. The gun is heavy and big. You are never going to see it in .357 mag. The gun need not be that big and heavy for the ..357Mag.

I agree with the poster who said you are trying to cover to many bases with one gun. For hunting .357 amg is really marginal. 44mag/45colt makes more sense. USPSA now allows 8 rounders I believe in their revolver division so anything with six rounds in it is going to be at a big disadvantage.

Take Care

Bob

[Artful]

for a do all revolver like you want - I'd go 357 mag for my first one.
I think I'd be looking at S&W 686P 7 shot 357 mag
that takes full moon clips in 4 or 5 inch barrel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j26aIgo667w

Next choice S&W 625 .45 ACP.

44, 454, 460 - not near as economical to shoot, recoil more apt to develop a flinch.

[Petrol & Powder]

Another vote for the .357 mag. and probably the GP-100. Versatile cartridge with the option of 38 Special, very strong gun and durable. The 44 mag/special route is another option but for all around use the 38/.357 is hard to beat. The 44 requires more lead, more powder and the guns are obviously bigger/heavier.
The Ruger GP-100 is an excellent gun and the S&W 686 is a close runner up in that same class. Now, if you're in bear country forget what I just said and go straight to the 44 magnum.
I don't care for barrels over 4" for anything that has to carried but I'm often in the minority with that opinion.

[robertbank]

What he said. For Black bears a 357mag would be faster to get into action with a 4.2" barrel and plenty enough loaded with 125gr soft points. Works on humans so why not bears. The seven and eight shot revolvers are/were designed for playing the revolver games. If you are into that go for it. If not the Ruger GP-100 is very hard to beat.

Take Care

Bob

[beroen]

I am leaning towards the gp100 6" in stainless
I wish it was a little more classic looking but oh well it looks sweet with a scope

I think the S&W is out of my price range

[Petrol & Powder]

The GP-100 is a fine gun and far better than some folks will admit. The GP is very strong and they can be very accurate guns. I agree that your spread of potential applications (hunting to USPSA competition) may be a bit broad.
Opinions vary but for me, a 6" barrel is unwieldy. The 6" barrel gives you a bit more sight radius and a little bit more velocity. Those two extra inches of barrel come with the cost of more weight and a significantly larger overall gun. If you're going to put a scope on it, the sight radius becomes a non-issue. For me a 6" barrel is a dedicated hunting or range gun. A 4" barreled revolver is no less inherently accurate than a 6" barrel.
A 4" barrel is a good compromise between size/weight/sight radius and is much easier to carry/draw.
I see a lot more used 6" barreled revolvers that get traded in than used 4" barreled revolvers for sale.

The trigger on the GP-100 isn't as bad as some would have you believe and it can be greatly improved with just a little work. While you may not be able to improve the Ruger trigger to rival an old S&W you can certainly improve it to the point that it will rival a current out of the box S&W.

[beroen]

When I say I would like to use it for uspsa I mean just that I won't be going out there expecting to win I just go to shoot my different pistols and get better faster with them.

[Petrol & Powder]

If hunting is your primary goal then a 6" is approprirate.

[Artful]

I wish it was a little more classic looking
I think the S&W is out of my price range
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=411544999/used+Smith+%26+Wesson+686+Plus+.357

$456


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0oBAHdcU1s

[69daytona]

Check out the Dan Wesson's in either 44mag or 357, since your here you must reload so you can get whatever you want out of either and you can always get different length barrels and shrouds if you want longer or shorter .
might want to checkout their Supermags as they will shoot 38,357 and 357 maximum and the445 will shoot 44 special,Mag and supermag, then you can go from mild to wild with a very accurate revolver that is strong enough to handle the stoutest stuff made.

[beroen]

Ended up with the gp100 6" blued the trigger feels like **** in DA hopefully it will wear in a bit.. My uncle has a sp101 that he had the trigger done on Damn it feels smooth. I am hoping they can do the same to mine.

[Whiterabbit]

I don't wear in triggers, I stone them the day after the first range trip if they feel like that. You can do that at home.

[Petrol & Powder]

The GP-100 is a fine tool and will outlast you by a considerable margin.
As for the trigger, it can be easily improved. Before you start taking stones to important surfaces, I'd recommend obtaining some knowledge first.
This is a decent place to start: https://gunner777.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/ruger-gp100sp101book-of-knowledge/

I've spent a lot of time with Ruger DA revolvers and the quickest way to improve the trigger is a set of replacement springs (hammer & trigger return). Some careful polishing of the appropriate parts and some shims will often show benefits as well. For springs and shims these are good people to deal with: http://michigancenteroutdoors.com/

If you drop the spring weights too much you'll get misfires and slow trigger reset. You can go 12# on the hammer spring and 10 # on the trigger spring and still have 100% reliability. That one modification may be enough for you to be happy with the trigger. Smoothing the edges of the hammer strut is an easy and effective modification that you can do while replacing the main spring.

A word of caution, do not pull the trigger when the trigger group is out of the frame unless you enjoy looking for tiny parts in the carpet. If you're mechanically inclined the GP-100 is easy to work on.

Good Luck and enjoy your new wheel gun; you got a good one !!

[Petrol & Powder]

Pictures !!

[Jtarm]

Yes, doesn't count without pics.

It won't be your only wheelgun:-)

Soon you'll want a more serious hunting revolver (bigger caliber..)

An IDPA SSR.

> 6 capacity and/or moon clips for USPSA and IDPA ESR.

An IDPA BUG revolver.

Several others just cuz they're fun.

[smkummer]

Yep, 4, 5 or 6" .357 (or even 38 special) revolver. If I had to only have one centerfire revolver, that would be it. I still have 38 special brass from the 90's that was swept up at a police range. I'll die with that brass. .357, you may have to pay the market rate for brass. I still fire about 95% 38 special from my .357 chambered guns. In fact a Plus P 38 is my favorite. At one time, 38 special was the most common sold reloading dies for handgun, but I am probably dating myself by saying that. I am shooting a cast bullet 38 special for about .06 each and the primer is costing me over 1/2 that cost.

[Rustyleee]

454s aren't really much fun. I'd listen to these guys - a 357 is really useful and 38 spl is way more fun to shoot on a regular basis.

-Nobade

+1 it's a good place to start. If you're not experienced to begin with a handgun anything bigger will take a long time to master.

[Mauser48]

Ended up with the gp100 6" blued the trigger feels like **** in DA hopefully it will wear in a bit.. My uncle has a sp101 that he had the trigger done on Damn it feels smooth. I am hoping they can do the same to mine.

I have that same one in stainless. My trigger is pretty good in sa and da. Its not gritty or anything in da just a little heavy. I want a 5.5 inch stainless super blackhawk now!

[beroen]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/02/92444be09d9131b6be18c811b1724906.jpg

Don't mind the pajamas lol

[9.3X62AL]

get a.357 gp100 with 6 inch barrel. that will cover your needs. the nay sayers to the .357 have never used the original loads. there is a big difference between the loads of today and the first loads.

Very true. I have a Bisley Blackhawk x 7.5", and I can run loads that meet or slightly beat the 1930s Doug Wesson ballistics, in the 1500 FPS toll-free dialing area. Of course, be mindful that at about the same time SAAMI eviscerated the 357 Magnum the group did likewise to the 41 and 44 Magnum--lowering all of their pressure standards from the 43K PSI range down to 36K PSI. A 1935-vintage 357 Magnum loading might tweak out one of the current S&W J-frames chambered in 357. Loaded properly, a 4" or 6" 357 Magnum field gun can make venison very capably if its driver can steer it correctly--and resist taking marginal shots.

[Petrol & Powder]

You will be well served by a good quality .357 magnum such as the GP-100.
Take your time to learn about the cartridge and the gun. Don't be impulsive, it is an excellent tool in good hands.

[beroen]

Very true. I have a Bisley Blackhawk x 7.5", and I can run loads that meet or slightly beat the 1930s Doug Wesson ballistics, in the 1500 FPS toll-free dialing area. Of course, be mindful that at about the same time SAAMI eviscerated the 357 Magnum the group did likewise to the 41 and 44 Magnum--lowering all of their pressure standards from the 43K PSI range down to 36K PSI. A 1935-vintage 357 Magnum loading might tweak out one of the current S&W J-frames chambered in 357. Loaded properly, a 4" or 6" 357 Magnum field gun can make venison very capably if its driver can steer it correctly--and resist taking marginal shots.
Ahh I see now that now that I have the old book out [emoji6] http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/02/81eddb7a6465f5fc3456eb6f922c967e.jpg
Dang look at the blue dot 125g data !

[robertbank]

I have the 4.2" GP-100 Stainless for IDPA and Wilderness Carry up here. At 105 PF it is a joy to shoot and I have brass from the 60's slowing expiring with repeated firings. On the wild side I have 6 gr of Unique under a 200 gr cast RN that rolls along at 1085 fps (thanks Al for the loading chart) for Black Bears, tough cardboard and tin cans.

The trigger pull got a whole lot better with new springs and hammer shims. Now it is smoother than my 696 no dash, the latter runs back up to the Ruger.

Take Care

Bob

[Petrol & Powder]

I have the 4.2" GP-100 Stainless .....................

..........The trigger pull got a whole lot better with new springs and hammer shims. Now it is smoother than my 696 no dash, the latter runs back up to the Ruger.

Take Care

Bob

THANK YOU BOB !!
I'm so tired of hearing people disparage the trigger of a DA Ruger, often by people that have never owned or shot EITHER gun!

The GP-100 lock work isn't horrible to start with (as many proclaim) and it can be greatly improved with a little work.
I've been playing with Rugers, S&W's and to a lessor extent Colts, for a long time. Some of the older S&W's do have exceptional actions but often that is from use and not modification. With care they tend to "wear in" more than they "wear out".
Rugers are frequently unfairly disparaged (often by pundits that have never even shot one!) but a Ruger DA revolver can be made to rival any current S&W.
It should also be noted that the Ruger lock work is "over built" and while the S&W action is plenty strong the Ruger action is even stronger.
I own far more S&W's than Rugers but I respect the engineering that went into both types.

[robertbank]

Oddly enough the Ruger is actually lighter than my Smith. The gun barrel on the Smith is just long enough to be classified "Restricted" up here rather than "Prohibited". S&W made a run of 686's for Custom Services back in the day (1988?) - I have one of two I know of that immigrated to Canada. Both have barrels a tad longer than 4". I am sure they were made as "4"" guns but tolerances being what they are....:D
In any event they work for us up here and they are very good guns. That said my Ruger is what I compete with due mostly because of the trigger and sights I have on it. Nothing wrong with the Smith but...

Take Care

Bob

[cstrickland]

as almost everyone has seem to say GP-100 is the way to go for a dual duty 357. Have you seen the Ruger GP100 Match Cchampion version, that is a sweet shooting gun from the box. I would prefer a standard 6" GP100 and have the action smoothed out and new spring. You could then shoot some basic competition, and still get good velocity for hunting. I would go with a 180 gr wide meplat hard cast for hunting, and push it around 1300 - 1400 fps . you can get factory loads from Buffalo bore, Double Tap or CorBon that will do the trick if you do not handload

now if you are looking at the Super Redhawk I would sway you toward the 44 mag model with a 7.5" barrel. Now, I could not anyway recommend this for shooting sports like IDPA or the like, but for hunting it is a pure joy to shoot. I shot 300 grain hard cast out of mine and it was not in the least bit uncomfortable. you could also then shoot 44 special for informal targets

either way for the money the Rugers are really in my opinion the best of both world. Affordable, accurate and reliable even with heavy hunting loads. I do love S&W's but for the cost I can just not justify it.

[9.3X62AL]

Rugers are slowly starting to overtake the S&Ws in my gun safe. Specific to the 357 Magnum, my authorizing agency recently added the SP-101 and GP-100 variants to our choices for on- or off-duty armament. 357 Magnum sideiron as primary artillery is an idea flatter than Milken's Mastercard, but the SP-101 x 357 Magnum is such a much better back-up weapon than the S&W J-frame handbusters that they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.

Shifting focus to the 44 Magnum, the Ruger Redhawk can get onerous to cart around all day. Mine is the 5.5"-barreled blued variant, not the largest or heaviest by any means. Friends who own & operate the 7.5" or 9.5" large frame Rugers might be better served by a carry strap than a holster, I've often thought. My 7.5" Bis/Blackhawks remind me of this quandary on occasion. Strangely, the one time the Redhawk was called to duty to actually act as bear medicine I don't recall its weight being a disadvantage......or even coming to mind. The ideas at the time were along the lines of I WISH IT WAS 1) MORE POWERFUL AND 2) BELT-FED. That extra heft in the Ruger 44/45/480 helps soak up a lot of recoil, and I can run a given load strength lots longer in the Redhawk than I ever could in any S&W. Truth to tell, the 44 Magnum is a lot better rifle round than it is a revolver charge. I know that is HERESY in some quarters, but when you see how many S&W 44 Magnum revolvers have been sold private-party with a box of 50 cartridges containing 6-12 empties.......well? It's just not for everyone, Elmer Keith's writings on the subject notwithstanding. Even Mr. Keith wasn't fond of hot-rodding the 44 Magnum--in speaking of his 240 grain SWC the Lyman #429421, he insisted that "1200 FPS is all you need" for North American game animals. 240s running 1200 FPS are about as much as I want in a S&W 29-series wheelgun; 50 of those per day will suit me right to the ground (Mr. Keith advised limiting oneself to 500 per year of these to prevent hand damage, a caveat I ignored with enthusiasm while I was still immortal......a condition that persisted well past my 40th year). Again, the Ruger thickrollers can make such loadings almost docile and tractable.

At the end of the day, no single handgun platform is capable of doing as many things as well as a high-quality double-action swing-out cylinder 357 Magnum revolver with a 4"-6" barrel. If target ranges and hunting fields are your environment, the 6" should come first, if gun games or self-defense is on the agenda then the 4" barrel might be a better first choice. If you are an enthusiast like me, you'll wind up with both (and more).

[Petrol & Powder]

Once again I find myself in agreement with 9.3x62AL.
First with his take on the SP101. I've always considered the SP101 to be a bit too large for pocket carry but it excels at everything else a snubnose is called upon to perform. In size, the SP101 falls between the S&W 1 7/8" J-frames and the S&W 2" RB K-frames. In addition to the overall size niche that the SP101 fits into, it is an incredibly strong and durable little gun. For a small .357 magnum capable snubnose - it's hard to beat. The .357 magnum S&W model 640 comes close.

As for the 44, I like hot 44 Specials or mild 44 magnums. They get a lot done and will take care of 90% of the things that 44's are good for.
240-250 grains of flat-faced 44 slug travelling at 900-1000 fps is generally plenty. You can easily go to 1200 fps if you feel a need. If you want to push it faster, have at it - I'll go get a rifle at that point.
At the end of the day the 4" .357 magnum swing-out cylinder DA revolver is Very, Very, Very hard to beat.

[beroen]

Does the ruger sp101 .357 have the same cylinder locking mechanism and action style mechanism as the GP100?

My uncle's SP101 is like a greased pig in DA but I can't remember if it had the same cylinder lock up mechanism.. He had it worked over and the springs changed I am hoping I can get my GP100 to feel like that.

[Petrol & Powder]

The SP101 lock work is similar to the GP-100. The crane locks to the frame like the GP-100 and general layout of the trigger group is similar.
The GP-100 responds very well to action work. Avoid the "bubba", I guess, "gunsmiths ?" that claim to know what they are doing. If you are mechanically inclined, can read and have a few tools; you can do a good job yourself. If you want someone else to do the work for you, pick someone that knows what they are doing.