450-40 Nitro Express Oh my!

[AbitNutz]

So I bought a Ruger #1 in 450-400 Nitro Express. The least expensive ammo I could find was...$89.00 for 20 rounds. Yep, almost $5.00 each. British African cartridges are expensive! I emailed Hornady and they said they should make a another run of brass in July. I sure hope so. Even that should be about $36.00 for 20.

NOE has a great looking boolet I'm going to try, the 412 360Gr. FN GC. I found some loading data that shows 32Gr of Accurate 5744 throws a 400Gr boolet at 1300fps. While 49Gr throws a 300Gr boolet at 2100fps. I'm going to try and find a happy medium. It seems that 5744 is the way to go.

I have some .410 265Gr GC boolets that I'll mess with a bit. They're likely too light but maybe they'll be good for target practice.

..stay tuned.

[BLTsandwedge]

I'm assuming you are referring to the .450/.400 2 3/8" Nitro Express as described in "Cartridges of the World" 14th edition by Frank Barnes. The cost? The price of history! A fine old BP round. The book mentions 210 to 270g lead atop 79 to 84g 2Fg. The other listings are for cordite. Those are old listings- I believe Ruger intended a much more robust loading.

Shabbat Shalom!

[shooter93]

I believe the Ruger is the 450/400 3 inch round. Hornady makes both it and the 3-1/4 inch round which aren't interchangeable. My double rifle is in the 3-1/4 inch case. Huntington's also sells brass for both calibers and may have a brand on stock. It's worth a call.

[Frank V]

That is the cartridge Jim Corbett used in the early 1900s in India to kill a number of man eating Tigers.

Maneaters of Cumaon.
It's a great read.

I'd sure be interested in a range report.
Thanks & congratulations.

[lar45]

I bought some .410 265GC bullets on Midway and tried them in my 405Win. I know they are too small, but they grouped well and were fun to shoot.

I've run 500LFN's at 2150, lubed with my 2500+ and Carnauba Red, out of my 470NE without any problems. I loaded with a Fed 215, RL-15 and a tuft of Dacron to hold it all in place.

[AbitNutz]

The Ruger #1 in 450-400 3" Nitro Express takes a .410 bullet so I may try some bullets intended for 41 magnums. I'm a bit concerned that bullets designed for the 41 mag are just too short. They would have to be seated really far from the rifling...I'm not sure what kind of issue could arise because of this.

I'd like to find a nice cast bullet that's fun to shoot. NOE has a 412-238-WFN GC that really appeals to me. The NOE 412 360Gr. FN GC looks like it should work but a nice, light bullet to plink with would be kinda cool too.

Imagine "plinking" with a 450-400 Nitro Express. I am really jaded.

[elk hunter]

Quote: Imagine "plinking" with a 450-400 Nitro Express. I am really jaded.

An old friend bought a #1 450-400 last year and loves it. He also has one each in 470 nitro and 500 nitro that I barreled up for him. He has no aspirations for going to Africa but, he does like to shoot them, and mostly with full loads. I guess you could call that plinking.

I enjoy telling the guys at the range with a muzzlebrake on their 300 magnum that they must be shooting too much rifle if they need a brake. Then I drag out a real rifle, meaning something of at least 3/8" bore diameter, and offer to let them shoot it. Sometimes one of them will accept.

Enjoy your new rifle.

[Blackwater]

I've always longed for a gun in one of the old "African" calibers, and the .450/.400 is probably the most "practical" of the lot. Have also considered the .45/100 or .45/110, the .50 Alaskan or .50/110, but recoil was always a question, as was the expense of cases. Every man with a true adventurous spirit HAS to want one. GETTING one is another matter, and frankly, I salute you for following through on it.

FWIW, if anything, if it were me and I wanted a neat lil' low-recoil round to plink and practice with, and those #1's ARE grand rifles, no matter what endeavor they're engaged in, I think I'd use cast rather than jacketed bullets. They're cheaper, and sometimes, jacketed can be problematic for making up light loads in cavernous cases because it takes much more pressure to engage the rifling and push them down the bore than would a similarly greased lead bullet.

And as to small charges in cavernous cases, we are constantly reminded that using small tufts of dacron or other "fillers" can and has resulted in "ringing" of barrels. A friend who has done a goodly amount of light bullet shooting in large calibers got around this by using ENOUGH dacron to fill the case to the base of the bullet. He has had zero problems doing this, and dacron pillow stuffing just isn't costly enough to not do this, IMHO.

Ultimately, your fine new gun should be capable of taking everything from rabbits and squirrels or grouse/qual, etc., on up to Elephant, Hippo, Rhino and Buff, and doing it IN STYLE! Keep us posted on your results. As I've gotten older, I find recoil bothers me more than it used to, but I still have a love for those old guns in my heart that'll never die, so maybe you can give us fans of that kind of thing a little vicarious thrill. If it were me, the first game I'd try for with it would be deer. I have an idea you'll find it rather a spectacular killer with cast on them, too. Most any gun will KILL a deer, but the big bullets do it with a bit more spectacular style than the smaller ones.

[AbitNutz]

It's interesting to note that while Accurate 5744 is almost universally suggested by makers of powder, bullets and brass for reduced loads and cast bullets. No reference mentions the use of filler material, such as Dacron. I wonder if that's just not a problem with 5744 due to its quick burn rate or nobody wants to commit to putting anything but powder in a case. However, just loading 30 to 50 grains of powder into a case that has a capacity of 113 grains does give one pause.

A light bullet with 40Gr of 5744 is going to sound like a maraca when shaken...Oh, but maybe being British it is to be "shaken, not stirred". Didn't James Bond in his last movie make use of a large British double rifle? Shaken not stirred indeed.

[AbitNutz]

I was watching a couple of youtube video's with folks shooting the NO.1 in 450-400 Nitro Express. It really surprised me to see most had some sort of optical sight on it. One guy almost got a good case of "magnum eye".

I've thought about trying to improve the trigger a bit but it looks like the only one available for a NO.1 is the Kepplinger single set trigger. Having a scope and a set trigger seems unwise on any rifle chambered for a Nitro Express cartridge.

[Blackwater]

I can't recall whether Lee S haver does trigger work on #1's, but he did my 1885 Browning BPCR, and it was most excellent work. If it were me, I'd call and check with him. If not, he may be able to suggest a good one, or another good 'smith to do the work on it.

With respect to the scope, most people today seem to insist on the objective being close to the eye. This, I think, is the source for the popularity of the phrase "Weatherby eye" - a cut above the right eyebrow. It seems many have to experience this before they'll move it forward where they get better cheek contact/weld with the rifle. The old Brits did some outstanding and consistent shooting with irons, but I'm now at the stage I just can't use them worth a warm bucket of spit. Ironically, now is THE time in my life I really WANT to! Ain't it funny how that works? I have an old '03 Spfld. in orig. configuration, and it has the early "blade" front sight. It totally disappears, and I mean that quite literally, when I'm in shooting position. Can't see it AT ALL. (Sigh!) But I DO look really good missing. Does that count for anything on score??? ;)

[MOA]

AbitNutz (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?2766-AbitNutz)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/statusicon/user-offline.png
This is what I have been using for my toy.

Cast boolit:

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Hand%20loading/20150221_151953_zpsjqgkcnui.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Hand%20loading/20150221_151953_zpsjqgkcnui.jpg.html)




Right hand tray
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Hand%20loading/20141116_153155_zpsxqssrfdb.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Hand%20loading/20141116_153155_zpsxqssrfdb.jpg.html)


As to having a optical sight on this single shot rifle I have found it to be helpful when shooting non dangerous game up close and when shooting dangerous game from a reasonable distance.
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Hand%20loading/294e6f28-3224-4bca-b308-89dbf039bb05_zpsbg8aoch1.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Hand%20loading/294e6f28-3224-4bca-b308-89dbf039bb05_zpsbg8aoch1.jpg.html)




In ref to the pistol j words, they load fine and they shoot good too.

Middle 210 grain, right is a 300 grain

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/20140919_105310_zps8ecf0856.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140919_105310_zps8ecf0856.jpg.html)


http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/20140913_161247_zps41b30a71.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140913_161247_zps41b30a71.jpg.html)


http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/20140912_172130_zps26aa2888.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140912_172130_zps26aa2888.jpg.html)



Hhttp://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/20140919_104125_zps049b1446.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140919_104125_zps049b1446.jpg.html)

[MOA]

Now, if you really get into the African line of cartridges you can always pair up your current one with the 9.3 x 74R.


http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Hand%20loading/20141024_142929_zpsgq4lkjyq.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Hand%20loading/20141024_142929_zpsgq4lkjyq.jpg.html)


http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Hand%20loading/20150315_111629_zpsb3lko1n6.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Hand%20loading/20150315_111629_zpsb3lko1n6.jpg.html)


And now folks, it's time to go. I have cold lead in the shop calling out my name for heat, good luck on all the fun working up your plinking and hunting loads!

[AbitNutz]

MOA...thanks so much for all that info! I just ordered two NOE molds The 360Gr and a 238Gr. I'm also going to try the 41 mag Honady XTP in your picture. It's good to know I'm not alone in my insanity.

I'm hoping that Hornady comes through with a new run of brass in July like they wrote me. My only other source would be loaded ammo at $100.00 a box of 20.

[Frank V]

Now, if you really get into the African line of cartridges you can always pair up your current one with the 9.3 x 74R.

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-05-03-09-08-40_zpszeh7prqb.png (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-05-03-09-08-40_zpszeh7prqb.png.html)




http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/20150321_084020_zpssgs3qa7b.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150321_084020_zpssgs3qa7b.jpg.html)

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/20150315_111629_zpsb3lko1n6.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150315_111629_zpsb3lko1n6.jpg.html)

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/nitroexpress450400/Mobile%20Uploads/20141128_131643_zpsf28248d4.jpg (http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nitroexpress450400/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141128_131643_zpsf28248d4.jpg.html)

And now folks, it's time to go. I have cold lead in the shop calling out my name for heat, good luck on all the fun working up your plinking and hunting loads!



Or the .375 H&H? :lol: actually the .450-400 is a great cartridge on it's own.
Looking in my Hornaday Handbook Of Cartridge Reloading 9th edition on page 615 & 616 there are data for the .450-400 Nitro Express 3". They only use two bullets of their own though both 400gr one a soft & one a solid. The test rilfe..... drum roll please!!!!! :grin::grin: A Ruger #1 W/24" bbl. This would be a GREAT cartridge to take into the dark timber after Elk. In our dark timber we have Grizzlys who are also after Elk.
I'm staying tuned to follow the results of this ctg.

[goofyoldfart]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys use a forward observer to adjust "the artillery" fire on your game shooting? :kidding: God Bless to all and theirs. Goofy aka Godfrey.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

In the late 1960s a fellow gun club member passed away and left his widow with a house and garage full of guns. Many were old black powder rifles. One English double was made by Craigswell & Harrison and chambered for a 50 caliber three inch round. It was in a well worn leather case with all the accessories.
It of course had outside hammers with an under lever you pulled to the right. The gun was well used but still sound. I wanted to buy the rifle but the lady was not ready to sell that one just yet. She told me to take it home and play with it for a few months and get it out of my system. I took the beast home and filled one of the big three inch cases with 3f. The case had some cast bullets in it so I stuffed one of them into the mouth of the case. I didn't have any loading dies. I took the rifle to the range the next weekend and waited until everyone had left. I wanted to shoot it on the pistol range which was a no-no. My wife was with me that day so I told her to pick me up if I hit the ground. I was standing when I pulled the trigger and it staggered me. I had to take two quick steps or I would have gone over. I never tried it from the bench, in fact I never shot the gun again. After six months I took it back. A few months later the lady called and said I could have the double for $275. I told her I didn't have the money at the time so she sold it to another man for $300. He told her he just had to have it. He took it to a gun show the next weekend and sold it for $700. The widow heard about it and she was ticked. I don't think she sold him anything else. There was another double rifle made by Grant & Lang, also in a leather case. This one was chambered for the 45x3-1/4 case. This was a best quality double and in excellent condition. It was made for someone my size while the 50 caliber was made for a tall man with long arms. She would never sell me the Grant and Lang. There were many fine guns to be had and at 1960s prices. I remember a cased Maynard with three barrels she was asking $1500 for and I don't know if it sold or not. I did buy some Colt pistols but that is another story. I am attaching pictures of come of the big case. She let me have. They are the 45x 3 & !/4, 50x 3, 50-70, 45-90, 45-82 and the puny Remington 41 Derringer round.

[LIMPINGJ]

For some light loads look up Ross Seyfried's articles on Nitro for Black loads.

[MOA]

You can also look for brass marked 400 jeffery, same cartridge.

[Frank V]

Oh would I like to have a nice little Double in .450-400.
What a great Elk rifle.

[AbitNutz]

A double rifle in most any nitro express caliber is a lottery dream.

[AbitNutz]

I just found 2 boxes of unprimed brass online. I bought both. I wonder how fast a 450-400 case could push a 210Gr 41 mag bullet...hmmm.

[MOA]

Way to fast for it's construction. Remember, it is a pistol bullet!!!

Keep velocities reasonable.

[pls1911]

With .416 Rigby or .416 Remington, I ran into similar expense issues common to cartridges intended for the dark continent or the far north. With store prices pushing or exceeding $5 per round, many guns have been relegated to dark corners of dark closets.
Though I have components, big bore in Texas means 45/70 to me. Along with .30-30 it's traditional around these parts and it's still bigger and fatter than nominal beer round

Premium gas checked cast bullets (Garage dropped of course!!) in any of them perform magnificently at a price nearly on par with reloaded 45 Colt.... and that means we can afford to shoot!
Big old good 'uns -or- Good old big 'uns...
I've not found anyone who doesn't enjoy shooting cartridges the size of what used to be a $5 cigar.

[MOA]

Yup, big fat boolits!!!
450/400 3" Nitro Express next to a standard 30/06 loaded with 180 gr.
This is a 395 gr. Cast lyman 40 caliber boolit.

153369

[mart]

Accurate Molds has several good rifle molds that would work in the 450/400. I use a 320 and a 400 grain from their molds in my 400 Whelen.

[Blackwater]

Abitnutz, if you're "a bit nuts" as your moniker implies, you've certainly picked a really fun way to put it to use. Good on ya', brother! Keep keeping us posted.

[shooter93]

Again....if you're having trouble finding brass call Huntington's. If he is out he will tell you when his next order is due. The brass he has made with his headstamp is exceptional brass. My barrels are a bit rough for cast but it shoots very well with Woodleighs.

[Frank V]

Be sure to let us know how it does on the range.
Great rifle, great cartridge!

[AbitNutz]

Should be done in the next month...you know how gunsmiths are.

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2: Fun,fun,fun from the howitzer club.Carry on Gentlemen.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Golfswithwolves]

This cartridge is fun to shoot when loaded with Trail Boss powder. I don't have any idea of the velocity this powder gives though.

[Frank V]

The velocities Trail Boss turns in with other cartridges is fairly slow. It was developed for lead bullets, Cowboy Action shooting, & to fill the case to the bottom of the bullet with moderate velocities. I get about 815fps in the .45 Colt with a 255gr cast bullet & the charge comes almost to the base of the bullet.

Chrony offers a chronograph for under $100, they are pretty accurate too.
I like mine.

[AbitNutz]

That's one of the problems with the 450 NE case....it's gigantic. Almost any load I mess with needs a filler. Trail Boss may not be a bad idea.

[paul edward]

If hunting squirrels with this caliber, aim for their head or else you risk ruining too much meat.

[fredj338]

I feel your pain. I have a really nice M70 built in 404 jefery, about $100/$20! Even handloading jacketed bullets, about $1.50/shot. I tried lead bullets but pushing useful vel, just not what I wanted for practice. SO I swage 300gr/44 down to 0.423" for practice rounds around 50c each. Yeah, I never save $$ reloading. One of these days I'll have a double rifle in 450#2, perfect lead bullet slinger.

[Frank V]

I feel your pain. I have a really nice M70 built in 404 jefery, about $100/$20! Even handloading jacketed bullets, about $1.50/shot. I tried lead bullets but pushing useful vel, just not what I wanted for practice. SO I swage 300gr/44 down to 0.423" for practice rounds around 50c each. Yeah, I never save $$ reloading. One of these days I'll have a double rifle in 450#2, perfect lead bullet slinger.


The .404 Jefery was a pretty well thought of cartridge in Africa.
Wish bullets weren't so hard to get or so expensive or both for some of those nice old ctgs.
Swaging .44 bullets down sounds like a nice alterternative.

[MOA]

I think I might try to size down some of my 375 Win cast boolit to .370 and see how they do in my 9.3 x 74R, the are around 264 grain, and I have a bunch bagged up and ready to go. That would be sweet to have two cast boolits for that ole timer cartridge.

[chuckbuster]

Currently reading John "Pondoro" Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartridges", the .450-.400 was one of his favorites. I have a Ruger77 .416 Taylor, way too much fun, and a forward observer may not be a bad idea although when the target berm is dry pretty easy to register the dust cloud from firing point and adjust, then fire for effect...

Abitnutz
I have the .41-265"True Shot" mold recently run as a group buy. It is LONG, just fits in my Super Blackhawk Hunters, be glad to send you some if you want to try them. PM me your address.
Kevin

[Frank V]

Currently reading John "Ponder" Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartridges", the .450-.400 was one of his favorites. I have a Ruger77 .416 Taylor, way too much fun, and a forward observer may not be a bad idea although when the target berm is dry pretty easy to register the dust cloud from firing point and adjust, then fire for effect...

Abitnutz
I have the .41-265"True Shot" mold recently run as a group buy. It is LONG, just fits in my Super Blackhawk Hunters, be glad to send you some if you want to try them. PM me your address.
Kevin


I think I'd just load it down a bit & see what I had then.
Sometimes 100-200fps reduction really makes things pleasant?