Blackwater
10-03-2005, 07:41 PM
I'd cast tons of bullets before I got my BPCR, and I thought I knew how to do it. Getting that BPCR was a great awakening to me! I found I didn't know squat about loading real black powder, and more surprisingly, found I didn't know much about casting really good bullets EITHER! This was very humbling, to say the least.
Well, a buddy sent me his Lyman 457125 mould he was having trouble casting with, and asked me to see what I could do with it. I guess I shot my mouth off about some casting stuff, and he held my feet to the fire. I hope I acquitted myself passably this time.
Cast 144 bullets, and nominal wt. was @ 513 gr. and 88.2% of them weighed between 512.2 to 513.9 gr. a + or - .85 gr. variation. This was the best I've ever achieved for wt. variation. This was with my version of 20:1, which was with alegedly soft lead from an old water tank (or boiler maybe?) from yesteryear that I got at the junk yard, with good 50/50 bar solder purchased from a welder's supply locally. Worked pretty good, I think.
My buddy didn't tell me what problems he'd been having with the mould, just to cast and tell him what kind of results I got. The problem I got (same as his) was finning on the nose, along with an apparent mismatch of the two mould halves. It was close, but the parting line was a bit too apparent, and the mould didn't close fully. The failure to close properly was initially due to using the mould on the wrong and non-fitting handles, but I used a very old old set of Lyman single cavity handles, and the mould seemed initially to close pretty well, with only a sliver of light between the halves. I guess my Mark I eyeball needs recalibrating? Took 20 of the mid-wt. lot that all weighed between 513.2 and 513.4 gr., and measured them. The noses, measured at the parting line, miked in the high .448's to .449. Pretty tight, but that parting line still showed up too prominently, indicating a small but noticable mismatch of the blocks.
The bases miked .457" plus or minus @ .0002" (two tenths), so I know my measuring with the mike was pretty good. The noses, however, miked from .4613-.4661", when measured perpendicular to the parting line, and across the mould halves (clear as mud now?) that just ain't closin' like they oughter.
I also observed some variation in how the bullets cast. Some appeared to clearly have closed more in line than on others. I'm taking this to be a problem with the alignment pin. That's my best guess, anyway. For all the casting I've done through the years, I just don't know about how to assure myself this is the reason for the mismatching, though, nor how I might go about "fixing" this mould. If Lyman won't redeem it or give him a new good one, I think he's going to chunk it, or maybe sell it cheap. He may also be willing to try to fix it, though I won't be holding my breath for that to happen. He's ticked at Lyman right now, and GOOD, too, because they cost him considerable casting, loading and shooting time.
Any observations and opinions of what to do with this mould would be welcome. I'm sure he's going to try to get his money or a new mould, but if they replace the mould, I don't think he's going to keep the new one. I think he's likely to get a good one from somewhere else - maybe Brooks or some of the other noted quality mould makers.
I've really learned a lot with this BPCR, and this mould has taught me some things, too, which is the reason I volunteered for this kind of duty for my buddy. What I don't know, and am really interested in, is:
1. How to correct a mould, should I ever need to, if this situation presents itself.
2. How do the alignment pins work, other than the obvious, and what should I look for in them to ensure that I'm just missing something on this mould? Never run across this before. The mold's "almost right," but no brass ring - not by a LONG shot!
3. Also, how much light do you like to see between the mold halves when on the handles and held to the light?
4. If the mould is warped, which I think I know CAN happen occasionally, can I use some wet or dry sandpaper (I'm thinking 400 & 600?) on some 3/8" plate glass to "fix" the mould and make the halves mate? I'm thinking I'd have to use small jeweler's files to file the vent lines back in, but I might be able to do that without screwing it up totally ... maybe.
Any options and wisdom re fixing such moulds would be appreciated. BTW, also cast some #458's from a buddy's NEI mould (the 485 gr. "Badger" bullet that allows seating out .3" to turn a trusty .45/70 into a functional .45/90), and there's hardly a visible parting line from that mould, or with my Saeco #745, either. Haven't weight sorted or measured the NEI's yet, but typically they've measured out at within .0005" or so of being perfectly round. Good moulds. I must be getting better at this casting stuff, because the wt. variation was the closest I've held since I got my BPCR and started casting these big bullets, but the results are NOT very encouraging with that Lyman mould.
Thanks in advance for any help or comments here. I think my buddy's too whizzed at Lyman to care, but .... well, you know - "A mould's a terrible thing to waste." That's what they say on TV, isn't it? [smilie=l:
Well, a buddy sent me his Lyman 457125 mould he was having trouble casting with, and asked me to see what I could do with it. I guess I shot my mouth off about some casting stuff, and he held my feet to the fire. I hope I acquitted myself passably this time.
Cast 144 bullets, and nominal wt. was @ 513 gr. and 88.2% of them weighed between 512.2 to 513.9 gr. a + or - .85 gr. variation. This was the best I've ever achieved for wt. variation. This was with my version of 20:1, which was with alegedly soft lead from an old water tank (or boiler maybe?) from yesteryear that I got at the junk yard, with good 50/50 bar solder purchased from a welder's supply locally. Worked pretty good, I think.
My buddy didn't tell me what problems he'd been having with the mould, just to cast and tell him what kind of results I got. The problem I got (same as his) was finning on the nose, along with an apparent mismatch of the two mould halves. It was close, but the parting line was a bit too apparent, and the mould didn't close fully. The failure to close properly was initially due to using the mould on the wrong and non-fitting handles, but I used a very old old set of Lyman single cavity handles, and the mould seemed initially to close pretty well, with only a sliver of light between the halves. I guess my Mark I eyeball needs recalibrating? Took 20 of the mid-wt. lot that all weighed between 513.2 and 513.4 gr., and measured them. The noses, measured at the parting line, miked in the high .448's to .449. Pretty tight, but that parting line still showed up too prominently, indicating a small but noticable mismatch of the blocks.
The bases miked .457" plus or minus @ .0002" (two tenths), so I know my measuring with the mike was pretty good. The noses, however, miked from .4613-.4661", when measured perpendicular to the parting line, and across the mould halves (clear as mud now?) that just ain't closin' like they oughter.
I also observed some variation in how the bullets cast. Some appeared to clearly have closed more in line than on others. I'm taking this to be a problem with the alignment pin. That's my best guess, anyway. For all the casting I've done through the years, I just don't know about how to assure myself this is the reason for the mismatching, though, nor how I might go about "fixing" this mould. If Lyman won't redeem it or give him a new good one, I think he's going to chunk it, or maybe sell it cheap. He may also be willing to try to fix it, though I won't be holding my breath for that to happen. He's ticked at Lyman right now, and GOOD, too, because they cost him considerable casting, loading and shooting time.
Any observations and opinions of what to do with this mould would be welcome. I'm sure he's going to try to get his money or a new mould, but if they replace the mould, I don't think he's going to keep the new one. I think he's likely to get a good one from somewhere else - maybe Brooks or some of the other noted quality mould makers.
I've really learned a lot with this BPCR, and this mould has taught me some things, too, which is the reason I volunteered for this kind of duty for my buddy. What I don't know, and am really interested in, is:
1. How to correct a mould, should I ever need to, if this situation presents itself.
2. How do the alignment pins work, other than the obvious, and what should I look for in them to ensure that I'm just missing something on this mould? Never run across this before. The mold's "almost right," but no brass ring - not by a LONG shot!
3. Also, how much light do you like to see between the mold halves when on the handles and held to the light?
4. If the mould is warped, which I think I know CAN happen occasionally, can I use some wet or dry sandpaper (I'm thinking 400 & 600?) on some 3/8" plate glass to "fix" the mould and make the halves mate? I'm thinking I'd have to use small jeweler's files to file the vent lines back in, but I might be able to do that without screwing it up totally ... maybe.
Any options and wisdom re fixing such moulds would be appreciated. BTW, also cast some #458's from a buddy's NEI mould (the 485 gr. "Badger" bullet that allows seating out .3" to turn a trusty .45/70 into a functional .45/90), and there's hardly a visible parting line from that mould, or with my Saeco #745, either. Haven't weight sorted or measured the NEI's yet, but typically they've measured out at within .0005" or so of being perfectly round. Good moulds. I must be getting better at this casting stuff, because the wt. variation was the closest I've held since I got my BPCR and started casting these big bullets, but the results are NOT very encouraging with that Lyman mould.
Thanks in advance for any help or comments here. I think my buddy's too whizzed at Lyman to care, but .... well, you know - "A mould's a terrible thing to waste." That's what they say on TV, isn't it? [smilie=l: