Browning 1885, In 45-70 Questions about suitable load development

[Dthunter]

Hi guys! I recently managed to find one of these wonderful Browning 1885 High wall in 45-70 Government!

I know the barrel is stamped "Blackpowder Recommended", but can I shoot factory smokeless safely through this rifle? I have seen articles that say that these high walls can be loaded to much high pressures than the traditional trap door loads.

My plan is to primarily shoot 405's and 500 grain cast boolets (Wheel weight alloy, or 40:1) around 1200-1400 fps range, so I can use black powder for this I know.

Would there be any issues in shooting Smokeless powders such as Varget, Imr 3031, H4198, etc. with conventional jacketed bullets?
I got to clean that bore and get her all cleaned up before I shoot it!
I do not want to damage this rifle in the least, and I want to preserve its condition.

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70_zpsdqod1zmt.jpeg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70_zpsdqod1zmt.jpeg.html)

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70%20Side%20Profile_zpsux3t1d18.jpeg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70%20Side%20Profile_zpsux3t1d18.jpeg.html)

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/My%20Browning%201885%20Barrel%20stamp_zpsukeiqhwi. jpeg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/My%20Browning%201885%20Barrel%20stamp_zpsukeiqhwi. jpeg.html)

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70%20Vernier%20Tang%20Sight_zpscbl48g34.jpeg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70%20Vernier%20Tang%20Sight_zpscbl48g34.jpeg.html)

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70%20Crown_zps1z03vjtk.jpeg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/My%20Browning%201885%2045-70%20Crown_zps1z03vjtk.jpeg.html)

Your thoughts would be hugely appreciated!

[Gunlaker]

You can shoot smokeless or black, jacketed, or cast in it. They are very strong actually. Some reloading manuals put them into the same class as a Ruger #1. Mine is used with black powder only, but the previous owner shot a lot of cast bullets using smokeless in mine.

Chris.

[Dthunter]

You can shoot smokeless or black, jacketed, or cast in it. They are very strong actually. Some reloading manuals put them into the same class as a Ruger #1. Mine is used with black powder only, but the previous owner shot a lot of cast bullets using smokeless in mine.

Chris.

Thankyou Chris! That was my thoughts, but I wanted to hear from some one who has the rifles and shoots them! I can hardly wait to give it a try!

[rr2241tx]

Here's a link to about all you could desire to know about your 1885 Miroku rifle: http://texas-mac.com/. My BPCR partner shoots one and loves it. You will not hurt it shooting any load you can stand to pull the trigger on.

[oldred]

The limit will be your pain tolerance, not the load!

Seriously, those things will easily handle any sane load but they are simply more fun with real Black Powder.

[Doc Highwall]

I have shot a lot of AA5744 in mine with cast bullets.

[Dthunter]

Here's a link to about all you could desire to know about your 1885 Miroku rifle: http://texas-mac.com/. My BPCR partner shoots one and loves it. You will not hurt it shooting any load you can stand to pull the trigger on.

Thankyou, but I tried the link and it doesn't find the server. Can you please check the link to see if you can give me a usable link? I would love to have a look!

[Skipper]

Thankyou, but I tried the link and it doesn't find the server. Can you please check the link to see if you can give me a usable link? I would love to have a look!


http://texas-mac.com/Articles.html

[Dthunter]

Thankyou skipper!


I also noticed that most shooters are resting the long barrels directly onto the front shooting rest/bags. In my experience, resting a barrel on a sand bag disturbs the consistency and grouping of the rifle. I personally will rest the foreshock on a sand bag to isolate and dampen any vibrations during the firing sequence.


What are your thoughts on this?

[country gent]

Alot of shooter rest the barrel on the front rest or sticks, But they also do some experimenting to find the dead spot in the nodes of the harmonics of the barrel. Resting the barrel at the dead spot dosnt affect it near as much.

[pworley1]

I have shot Ruger #1 max loads in mine, but it is more accurate and pleasant to shoot with moderate 1886 loads. Enjoy your rifle.

[EDG]

The 40-65s say black powder only because there is no source of SAAMI standardized smokeless ammo.

Black power recommended just means they designed it to work well with BP. It is not a prohibition on smokeless.
In the case of the 45-70 there is SAAMI standardized ammo. I suspect that Browning does not recommend smokeless handloads since a bone head can blow up anything with smokeless.

[montana_charlie]

I also noticed that most shooters are resting the long barrels directly onto the front shooting rest/bags. In my experience, resting a barrel on a sand bag disturbs the consistency and grouping of the rifle. I personally will rest the foreshock on a sand bag to isolate and dampen any vibrations during the firing sequence.


What are your thoughts on this?
Is the forearm on that rifle screwed directly to the bottom of the barrel ... or mounted on a 'hanger' like the Browning Model 78?

If the wood is attached to the barrel, as is the case with Sharps and rolling block rifles, the forearm may not be the best place to rest the gun. It's very unlikely that a vibration node will be located there.

CM

[Clark]

140089140090140091
I have worked up loads in Uberti 1885 I rebarreled to 257 Roberts Ackley Rimmed.
I run it two grains below the threshold of long brass life. That is 3050 fps 115 gr Nos Bal Tip with soft Norma brass
I got 4 mule deer with it in 2012

I have worked up loads in Browning 1885 7mmRemMag.
I run it two grains below the threshold of long brass life..... That is eleven grains more than Hodgdon publishes for 140 gr Nos Bal Tip H4350. I get 3400 fps.
I got a mule buck and an antelope buck with it in 2014

[Jackpine]

I bought one just after they discontinued them, about a dozen years ago I think. Did quite a bit of Cowboy long range with it. Did a fair amount of load development with 300 to 400 grain bullets and ended up with what load I us very happy with using 400 grain bullets and 5744. When I started shooting places where they shot beyond 500 yards, I wanted to shoot a 500 grain Postel style bullets. Tried a fair number of 500 grain bullets and different powders and could not find a load that would shoot nearly as well as the 400s. Talked to two other shooters who had the same experience. My rifle, as I assume all the Browning BPCR have, has a 1 in 18 twist Badger barrel. About that time I ran into a good deal on a Shiloh Sharps, which really likes 500 grain bullets, and the Browning has been resting in the safe since.

I have tried resting the barrel and the forend on cross sticks. (actually I suspend a heavy leather strap between the cross sticks, impaled on short spikes on the end of the cross sticks--there is no sharp surface or edges for the rifle to deflect off of and fine tuning height by just changing from one hole to the next works well for me) I have not found a difference in accuracy in shooting several different rifles and find that the geometry of shooting with the barrel supported farther out works well for me. It seems to me that "lifting one end of the lever" is easier to control and placing "the center of the lever on a pivot" is easier to control.

your mileage may vary,

Jackpine

[curator]

I strongly suggest you get Wayne McLerran's book on "Browning Model 1885 Black Powder Cartridge Rifle" for the best all around source of information. You can often fine his posts on this and other forums as "TexasMac." These are great rifles. I have one in .40-65 and I really enjoy shooting it. The more you know about it the more successful you will be--get the book. You won't be sorry. TexasMac does "updates" as information becomes available too.

[Lex]

I shoot 24.5 gr of 4227 and a 480gr cast bullet with awesome groups .