Handloader Article June 2015

[leadman]

Got my new Handloader today and was reading the article on the Encore 357/44 B&D written by Stan Troniec. I have been interested in this cartridge for quite awhile.
Either Stan has some information on the T/C Custom Shop I have not heard yet or he is way behind the times. He wrote that a barrel chambered in this cartridge can be ordered from T/C's Custom Shop.
I know it closed about 5 years ago but have not heard anything about it re-opening.
Any new news on this?

[Tatume]

While I have no news on the T/C Custom Shop, I do have a comment on the Handloader 357/44 B&D article; it was a complete waste of about 10 minutes of my life. The article had no useful information whatsoever. I've been debating whether or not to renew my subscription, and this article definitely helps make up my mind.

[Piedmont]

I thought the entire issue was lame. There isn't much I want to read in there anymore and consider not re-upping myself. Scovill mentioned he is retiring this year. Who will be the new editor?

[ohland]

Handloader 357/44 B&D article... The article had no useful information whatsoever.

I read the article, the writer panned the heavier (jacketed!) bullets past 156 grains [in his 15" pistol]. Oddly, there is no mention of cast boolits. I have some RCBS 357-180-SIL that would disagree with him... The short neck does make things more demanding, but a good booliteer can make it shoot.

So little time, so many calibers...

[leadman]

I called T/C, the Custom Shop is still closed and has been for a little over 4 years according to the lady I spoke with.

I too have been debating the renewal of my subscription. There have been way too many errors and/or poorly written articles lately.
Mike Venturino's article on the 1891 Argentine Mauser left alot to be desired also.

[dragon813gt]

I haven't been reading the magazine long. And doubt I will be for much longer. It's a poorly written magazine. I'm not a professional author and not saying that I can write a better article. But it really is amateur hour.

[Tatume]

Sadly, Handloader was the best gun magazine on the market. The American Rifleman is no longer of any value, and American Hunter never was. I may have to pick up an issue of American Handgunner.

[Dan Cash]

I quit Handloader back about 2000, having grown dissatisfied with the information. After reading an article about the Walther P38 wherein the author described an improvement on the "barrel bushing" to compensate for problems with the barrel dropping at the rear upon unlocking, and describing a totally unsafe clearing procedure, I wrote the editors urging them to clarify and correct the article. A reply from a fellow named Barsness (sp?) informed me that I was only an armchair amature and should not try to tell the professionals how things work.

I cancled my subscription, never receiving credit for a remaining half year. At the time, I worked for the U.S. Army Armor School as a tank weapons and small arms instructor and subject matter expert. I have handled many P38s and the follow on, long slide clone, the Baretta M9 and have never been able to get the back of the barrel to drop when unlocking. Boo the gun rags.

[EDG]

I have been a subscriber since about 1969. I have never been happy with Dave Scovill's efforts. He told the story of his life starting with the .257 Roberts pump and the 7X57 Ruger way too many times. I used to read the magazine cover to cover. Now I hardly read it. Too much retreaded single action and lever gun stuff. The writers often talk about things they know little or nothing about about. One of them is modern manufacturing. Scovill and some of his crew seem to dislike the internet. Well no wonder. It is not hard to find people that know more about the various subjects than they do.

[Tar Heel]

I just look at the pictures..........you guys actually READ it?

138373

[GLL]

Anyone interested in the 357/44 B&D should contact Peter at Bain & Davis located in San Gabriel ,CA.

Jerry

[ohland]

357/44 B&D should contact Peter at Bain & Davis located in San Gabriel ,CA. Jerry

In his arduous research, he doesn't draw much attention to the B&D gun shop, which is still (somehow) in business in the Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia. If he would have actually sent an SASE to the nice folks at B&D, they would send three pages (maybe three and a half!) of loads using modern powders.
http://bainanddavisgunshop.com/index1.asp

Looking at the meticulously assembled research, I could have done about the same from my collection of 357/44 articles.

I was suprised with the 357/44 in a 22" barrel. I feel that it is eminently capable of 150 yard deer termination with 6x to 8x glass or good iron sights.

[EOD3]

Way too much arrogance in Handloader, and its siblings for that matter, for my liking. Unfortunately, I haven't found anything that has quality articles often enough to justify a subscription. I'll just keep scanning the cover stories at B&N. and Booksamillion.

[dragon813gt]

So I have a serious question. Who is their target reader? I can't figure it out. A lot of the articles are very basic. And all of that info can be found in manuals and online. There is very little for the experienced hand loader in them. I know the internet has killed a lot of magazines and this is definitely one. Some of the reader submitted questions are downright scary in how basic they are. Maybe I'm being to critical.

[Roundball]

Most of you folks have a world of experience and willingly share the same. I do have a kind word for some aspects of "Handloader". Back in the day my complaints about another publication were about the same as yours. One of my mentors asked me how long had I been doing what that article was about. A long time. The current article on the Roberts by R.H VanDenburg was very good. His historical data was in line with introductory articles in "The American Rifleman" back in that day. I do not recall Roberts using any boolits in his research. Those other bullets selected for this article basically duplicated weights those used by the original experimenters. How many different ways can you write an article on loading a cartridge like the Roberts? I find Handloader's LoadData.com to be very useful.

[alamogunr]

I called T/C, the Custom Shop is still closed and has been for a little over 4 years according to the lady I spoke with.

I too have been debating the renewal of my subscription. There have been way too many errors and/or poorly written articles lately.
Mike Venturino's article on the 1891 Argentine Mauser left alot to be desired also.

Where might I find this article???

[HeavyMetal]

Handloader is not the mag it was 15 to 20 years ago, I have also contacted them about format preference for submitted freelance articles.

I was told they had no need of free lance material, they had a full crew writing for them.

Since that time I have seen less and less interesting articles and suspect a very real fear of lawsuits from newbie's but it could be they just keep things in the family.


I don't subscribe and never will, I just scan the mag at my local store and purchase if it looks like an article might be decent.

[drinks]

Someone,I know not whom, gave me a subscription, I have tried several times to cancel the magazine as, in my opinion, it has almost no value.
I certainly shall not renew.

[JohnMiller]

Currently the best gun related magazines in my opinion is The International Ammunition Journal and Man At Arms. I find every issue of IAA to be well written well researched with each copy being in full color. Anyone interested in the old stuff would likely really enjoy either magazine. Unfortunately neither focus on reloading or publish loads, But in my experience online forums are vastly superior regardless.

[Bent Ramrod]

I subscribed from the early '80's to the mid-'90's, and have grabbed up all the earlier numbers of both magazines that I could find. They really were "journals of record" back then.

I well remember the cozy letter Scoville sent us when he took over the magazine, to the effect that it was time to move beyond the "aging readership" that had formed the bulk of their subscriber base and appeal to the larger (and presumably younger and richer) newsstand buyers. Soon after came the color internals, the pictures of animals on the covers, and the steadily dwindling number of articles on classic rifles, historical aspects, and experimentation by amateurs and semi professionals (freeing up space for product infomercials and Which-Is-Better-The-9mm-Or-the-.38-Spl.-type articles by the pros).

The magazines still have a bunch of good writers. I think Barsness, Venturino and Pearce could make an interesting writeup out of anything they wished. But the choice of turning the magazines into general-interest newsstand magazines meant that they were going to be competing with all the others for an audience of more casually interested shooters than are found on specialty Internet forums. Those guys have to write for that audience to keep their jobs.

I can even see Scovill's point. A business has to keep moving forward to survive. The two magazines, according to then editor Ken Howell, ran at a loss for years, kept afloat by a consortium of reloading equipment and component manufacturers, and even when it was self supporting, they paid their writers and staff poorly. Maybe it was a miracle that they were as good as they were for as long as they were.

[leadman]

What I am uncomfortable with is I am seeing so many errors in the areas I have decent knowledge in what is incorrect information in the areas I know little about? I do not need to be retaining incorrect information.

For those that want to read about the 1891 Mauser it was included in Mike Venturino's article in the May 2015 Rifle magazine titled "South American Mausers".

[gewehrfreund]

I see I'm in good (and numerous) company in my lack of respect for Handloader (and Rifle, for that matter).
They took a sharp decline in quality of their articles about the time they started selling them on the grocery store magazine rack. I even wrote to Scovill and got a fairly arrogant and disdainful reply. That cured me of both my subscriptions. I look at them once in a while at the grocery store, but have never sen anything that made want to buy an issue.
Ross Seyfried's departure from the writing staff told me volumes and left no one with much skill/integrity other than John Barsness.
Two great magazines that succumbed to mediocrity in the name of sales.

[Roundball]

Re: Handloader for 6/15. How about the article (pp.34) on loading boolets in the 300 Magnums? I'm going in that direction and am currently gathering thirty caliber moulds. Rather hear from the experienced rather than unlearn some bad information in print.

[Char-Gar]

I was a charter subscriber and for years, thought it was the best publication around. However, when it joined the pulps on the newsstand, it started a rapid slide into mediocrity. I have not even picked up an issue to look at it in 8 or 10 years. There is nothing of interest to me in it.

[Char-Gar]

Re: Handloader for 6/15. How about the article (pp.34) on loading boolets in the 300 Magnums? I'm going in that direction and am currently gathering thirty caliber moulds. Rather hear from the experienced rather than unlearn some bad information in print.

There is plenty of bad information available to you on this site as well.

[Airman Basic]

There is plenty of bad information available to you on this site as well.
Ha. As William Wellman's groundpounder said, "That's fer sure. That's fer durn sure".

[dtknowles]

If I was looking for a place to save a few bucks I would not renew my subscription. Once in a while they have a good article and I always like the powder test column even though sometimes it has some BS.

Tim

[Chill Wills]

I normally don't pile on but you guys really struck a cord with me. I very much agree.

A much younger 1970's version of myself discovered Handloader, which was years before Rifle I think, in a small gun shop in (my) small mountain town on the book rack. Small towns had gun shops then:D. The owner pointed it out to me. Wow! Some of the stuff in there was obscure and I was green but I devoured it. As has been said, both Rifle and Handloader had so many reader submitted - in depth articles! B&W and neat type face. I went for a decade or so after the format change but what change! I dropped it after that.
I was a CBA member then too.

Now I look for it at the grocer news rack but rarely ever buy.

Two things happened. We, over the decades became somewhat expert in the areas we were interested in and Wolfe lowered bar to compete in the Quick-Stop and Food store gunrag rack. That is not a pairing that is likely to offer us something that we don't already know ... inside and out. Or, at the very least we have strong opinions. We are a tough crowd to write to.
Things change - not often for the better. Oh-well.....

[leadman]

There are good articles in the Handloader and Rifle magazines. Usually written by Barness or Pearce. The report on the new IMR powder was about what I expected it to do from the load data I had looked at.
The article on loading cast in the 300 Magnums was decent.
Someone mentioned Seyfried, I was reading some of his articles the last week or so and it really drove home that fact of the drop in writing quality and research now.
I probably will keep my subscriptions going as there isn't another magazine to replace them with. I will have to make sure if I read an article that I do some research on my own to validate the information in the article. Maybe things will improve with the retirement of Scovill. I wonder if his wife is going to retire also?

[alamogunr]

I spent significant time and money 15-20 years ago acquiring all the back issues of Handloader while subscribing to the current(then) issues. I continue to subscribe just because it occasionally has something good and buying a couple of issues on the newsstand almost equals a year's subscription.

I get much more enjoyment and good information from those back issues that I bought years ago.

[Airman Basic]

Speaking of back issues, have a ton from the early days, when they came in a plain manila wrapper, 70s, 80s? Have to look. Any value in those things?

[alamogunr]

Check Ebay and see what they are selling for. All those years ago they brought more than cover price.

[Airman Basic]

Well, I tried to catalog them, but I can't get very far. Keep finding things to reread. May have to get a disinterested party, aka wife, to get them together. Heck, I'll read them first.

[jhalcott]

I have several subscription mags delivered. After I read them, I keep them in the bathroom. When they pile up to high or I get tired of them, I use them for penetration tests at the range. I do not see the same loss of quality as many of you. I view it as a crossword puzzle book. Something to occupy a few minutes of idle time!

[6thtexas]

There are good articles in the Handloader and Rifle magazines. Usually written by Barness or Pearce. The report on the new IMR powder was about what I expected it to do from the load data I had looked at.
The article on loading cast in the 300 Magnums was decent.
Someone mentioned Seyfried, I was reading some of his articles the last week or so and it really drove home that fact of the drop in writing quality and research now.
I probably will keep my subscriptions going as there isn't another magazine to replace them with. I will have to make sure if I read an article that I do some research on my own to validate the information in the article. Maybe things will improve with the retirement of Scovill. I wonder if his wife is going to retire also?

+1 this. I really like Barsness but also really miss Seyfried. Al Miller had some pretty good common sense type articles but he has passed away. All Trzoniec can do is take pretty photos. The magazine really started downhill with Scovill as editor.

[EDG]

The magazine really started downhill with Scovill as editor.

I have complained to them about turning Handloader into hand loading for pistols and lever actions since Scovill took over. I consider him totally unqualified technically for that publication.

[EOD3]

Maybe we should start a magazine of our own and use it to fund the website. Maybe not, we'd never get enough people to agree on ANY subject.:coffee:

[Ed in North Texas]

Maybe we should start a magazine of our own and use it to fund the website. Maybe not, we'd never get enough people to agree on ANY subject.:coffee:

Indeed. I immediately thought of a comment I read today about the Models 1897/1902/1910 7mm Rolling Blocks being produced in a now obsolete "7mm Spanish" cartridge.

I gave up on Handloader when Ken Waters disappeared from the pages.

[EDG]

Each article would have to read like a Supreme Court decision.

There would be both a majority and minority opinion


Maybe we should start a magazine of our own and use it to fund the website. Maybe not, we'd never get enough people to agree on ANY subject.:coffee:

[rking22]

Just let my subscriptions expire also. Realized that I had't read but one article in 6 months (Smith M69). This site replaces all my mag subs except Backwoodsman! I actually like it that we don't all agree all the time, more input always yields better results.

[MT Gianni]

Maybe we should start a magazine of our own and use it to fund the website. Maybe not, we'd never get enough people to agree on ANY subject.:coffee:
This forum is a magazine with both great, good and poor information out there. As with all info consider the source.

[BAGTIC]

You mean they have actually had an editor in recent years? I thought they just threw all the manuscripts in the round file and let them sort themselves out.

[250kt]

Same thing here. Haven't bought a mag besides handloader in some years. Checked the mag rack yesterday and this annual had a couple interesting things so got it. Same basic people as handloader, rifle, etc. Was interested in the 50/70 article. Imagine my surprise to see a test of a new "Lonestar" rolling block. Article saying they are currently being made. Problem is the owner/ operator has been dead many years and the company along with it. Do they even try to make sure those articles are correct? Obviously it was written many years ago. I agree, handloader has gone to ****, no useful info as there used to be. Want to see a proper handloading/ cartridge write up? Then read some of the Waters-Pet Loads articles. That's what you used to get...

[Tatume]

It will not bother me if I never again see the word "vice" used incorrectly as a synonym for "versus."

[alamogunr]

It will not bother me if I never again see the word "vice" used incorrectly as a synonym for "versus."

One of my pet peeves is misuse of the English language by those whose profession is using the English language. I can overlook the occasional misuse here because the great majority of us have(or had) other professions. Yes, I've complained about a few things(spruce instead of sprue, there instead of their, but that is a context thing). Hopefully, most of my complaints have been under my breath to myself.

[EOD3]

Lord knows there are "nits" that MUST be picked. If they're not harvested they simply fall on the ground and sprout more nits. Soon, the landscape is choked with nits and picking them becomes a full-time job. If the nits are treated like litter and everyone picks a couple every day, the world would be a better place.:popcorn:

[quickdraw66]

I don't read the gun rags like I used to. I'll occasionally pick up a copy of Guns of the Old West, but that's about it. I'm mostly interested in old milsurps and old west guns, so all the articles over modern polymer handguns and ARs don't interest me much. I mostly read old articles by Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton that I find online. I think John Taffin is one of the best, if not the best gun writer there is today.

[FergusonTO35]

I've been a fan of Rifle and many of it's writers for a long time now. I especially like the emphasis on older, less common cartridges, the idea that lever actions are more than just Wild West toys, and the near-complete lack of politics and tacticool. However, I haven't picked up a new issue in a couple of years. Not because it's no longer a good magazine but rather because there just comes a point where there isn't anything new. You can only have so many articles on the virtues of the Ruger 77, heavy loading the .357 and .45-70 for Marlins, and why the ability of a scope to hold zero is far and away the number one reason to choose it. I agree with all those things, but there just isn't any more that can be written about it.

[250kt]

If you think they are "nits" you haven't read much....

[THerbert]

I don't read the gun rags like I used to. I'll occasionally pick up a copy of Guns of the Old West, but that's about it. I'm mostly interested in old milsurps and old west guns, so all the articles over modern polymer handguns and ARs don't interest me much. I mostly read old articles by Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton that I find online. I think John Taffin is one of the best, if not the best gun writer there is today.

I have two mags currently coming into the house, one will expire and won't be renewed. I really enjoy Guns of the Old West, as I've come to an interest in that era late in life, and I learn something I don't know in every issue. American Handgunner is also coming in, but I subscribed to that one solely for the writing of Mike Venturino, but since I only see an article from him about twice out of three issues, it won't be renewed again. I've learned more here on this forum today than I would in a year's worth of issues of that one.

[Blackwater]

In a day where "inclusiveness" is the "in thing," articles in just about all media, print or otherwise, are aimed at the newbies who don't really know a lot since they're just beginning, and in a litigious society, they HAVE to be aimed at not getting sued. This waters down the content to the extent that very few decent articles appear for experienced reloaders. It's a damnable shame, but it's what is, at least for now.

Ain't it funny how we could learn good stuff from the articles of 40-50 years ago, and can't learn anything except what's new in the mfg. field now? And as to gun reviews, does anybody really trust what's in print about them now??? I don't. I can't. I just don't think the way they do, and I KNOW what a real gun is and how it works, and why it needs to work that way. This just isn't brain surgery. Mfgrs. now seem to think we'll accept and coddle to our warm little hearts most anything they come up with.

In their defense, disregarding the powers that be - the mass of trial lawyers salivating for the chance to attack them in court - I can't blame them, but I think we consumers and mfgrs alike need to raise our sights beyond the heat and situation of the moment. But that's just me, I guess? There are just no heroes in any of this any more, and eventually, I think this will be seen as something we all brought on ourselves, collectively and individually, via our collective fragmentalism and refusal to handle the problems we face in a realistic and honorable manner. In short, everybody's wrong in some way, and nobody's right in much of any significant way at all, except as to being tested sorely by the idiocies of our times.

I don't subscribe to any glossy mags any more. I enjoyed and consumed them in volume for many, many years, but they're just not worth it any more. Why pay for what amounts to advertising and its cheerleaders? I just can't see doing that. It can't be made to make sense to do that.

I want my OLD magazines back, but I don't expect to get them. Sad, but that's just what we have for now, and I suspect we well MAY be wishing for what we have NOW in the not too distant future. The whole dang world has gone mad, or is in the process of doing it. Nothing makes any sense any more, really, and I feel like a misfit because I haven't changed while the world around me has declined for decades, and is now at the point that there's really little worth the time to read or listen to any more. Even churches are fragmenting themselves into smaller and smaller groups, intent on the little stuff while letting the big ideas and principles go lacking any real attention at all.

The decline of the gun mags is by design, and it's NOT coming from us shooters/reloaders/hunters, but we DO play a part in it when we neglect to enforce our values, knowledge and experience in the world around us, and give in to our emotions like all the loonies do today. We've become a sad remnant of a once great and proud nation. The decline of the gun mags are just another symptom of that.

[Clark]

I have always looked down on gunwriters in general, but I have respect for the books by Ackley, Frank De Haas, and Kuhnhausen's book on double action Colts.

In 1980 I subscribed to 35 magazines and read every word, especially letters the editor.
In 1994 there was a computer on my desk at work and I had access to the gun forum on usenet, rec.guns. There were guys there like Bart Bobbitt that were giving away very detailed information.

I subscribed to Handloader 15 years ago. It reminded me of two students complaining about the course on Rock and Roll in Fairhaven College in 1971, "You can't teach a course in something everyone already knows too much about."

I currently do not subscribe to any magazines, but I just bought a very good book on rebuilding Bridgeport 2J heads.

[pme166]

I still subscribe to Handloader, but I find it pretty simplified as others have said. I do like my DVD's set of Handloader and Rifle and I can search all years quickly and cull out useful information from the past in seconds. I find interesting how fun hits I get in the recent years during my searches. I must be interested in just older things I guess.