38 special 158 swc

[Mauser48]

Thanks to all the help on here I just decided to buy a stainless 6 inch ruger gp100 last weekend. Now I'm on the search for a good load. At the last gun show I picked up a box of bear creek moly coated 158 grain semi wad cutters. I have 38 special cases on the way, standard small pistol primers, 700x, and cfe pistol. I would strongly prefer to use the 700x because I bought a 4lb keg for 12 gauge. I'm looking for a nice light target load to plink with (not mouse fart light). Does anyone have a pet load with this combination? I would like to get some pretty good accuracy. All shooting is done on steel plates from 35 yards to 100 yards. Also, how about leading? I'm very new to loading cast bullets but not new to reloading in general. Anyone try something like this on jackrabbits? How tight of a crimp do I need? Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys!

[clum553946]

158 GR. MEI CAST LSWC



Pressure


IMR

700-X
.358"

1.475"
Starting Loads
3.0 grs.

795
13,700 PSI
Maximum Loads
3.4 grs.

867
15,800 PSI






I don't have any experience with 700x, but I'll bet it would be great for the 38 Special. Here's the data from the Hodgdon site, looks like you'd get a bunch of rounds per pound!

[clum553946]

Didn't quite copy directly try going to the site! http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

[Wayne Dobbs]

I'm not conversant with 700X or CFE, but I do know that if you have a bullet that fits your cylinder throats well, leading is not normally a big issue. Don't bite down on the myth that bullets need to be harder to prevent leading as that's not true.

With regard to powders and charges, I've found 3.5-3.6 of Bullseye and 4.0 of 231/HP-38 (same powder) work really well for standard pressure .38 Special applications with a good 158 grain SWC.

[twc1964]

+1 on the b.e in 38spl. I used it for the first time lsdt week in my blackhawk. 3.4Gr over 158gr boolit got me a nice 1.5" group at 20yds. This was just a quick 5 minute test of my first be loads. Im happy with it and a pound lasts a long time.

[kristopher.wheeler]

I'm not conversant with 700X or CFE, but I do know that if you have a bullet that fits your cylinder throats well, leading is not normally a big issue. Don't bite down on the myth that bullets need to be harder to prevent leading as that's not true.

With regard to powders and charges, I've found 3.5-3.6 of Bullseye and 4.0 of 231/HP-38 (same powder) work really well for standard pressure .38 Special applications with a good 158 grain SWC.

I've got most of a pound of 700X that I have loaded some 9mm stuff with. It seems like good powder, I just moved on when I could find some of my more preferred powders.

It looks like 3.2 grains of 700X would be a nice plinking load with the bullets you have. I love the 158 grain SWC bullets and have good luck with them. I run them over 231 for plinking loads and have a Bullseye load that I won't share here that is a little....warmer. Lots of fun. Best of luck!

[Petrol & Powder]

If you have CFE Pistol and 158 gr bullets, 5.0 grs of CFE Pistol in a 38 Special case works well. That is a non +P load.
If your bullet fits your cylinder throats you will probably not have leading issues.
4.0 grains of ww231 works well and is not a +P load. You can go a lot heavier in that 6" GP100 but there's not much to be gained unless you just want to push bullets faster. I use 4.4 grains of 231 in one particular 4" K-frame to get it to shoot point of aim.

I'm not real familar with 700x but I'm sure it could be made to work. It's been a long time since I played with that powder. I found WSF and WST to be very useful shotgun/pistol powders.

Congrats on your new GP-100, it is one of the best 38/357 DA revolvers out there.

[Mauser48]

Thanks guys! I also just bought a pound of h110 if anyone wants to share some hotter loads!

[N4AUD]

5 grains of Unique.

[Shooter6br]

Unique is a classic powder for 38 Special...."Flaming Dirt" but hard to beat for accuracy and velocity:lovebooli

[Petrol & Powder]

H110 is a great magnum level powder. On the few occasions I decide to load .357 magnum or 44 magnum; it is my go-to powder.
I would strongly suggest you stick to published loads that you get directly from a loading manual when playing with magnum loads. H110 doesn't tolerate down loading very well but is works great when you keep it within the recommended limits.

[Petrol & Powder]

"Flaming Dirt" - well that's a new one to me but fitting :D

38 Special is my favorite cartridge and Unique will certainly work but I like: CFE Pistol and Bullseye.
ww231/HP-38 was my old stand-by and I've burned many, many pounds of it but I think I'm going to drop it from my stash.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Not trying to thread drift, but please expound on CFE if you guys would. I'm always up to try something new...I just do the new thing and then return to the old one!

[Redd508]

Per the Hodgdon load data 4.0 gr 700x is a max load for 38sp +p. I typically use a Lee .5 dipper for 3.7 gr under a 158 gr water dropped coww. I havent had any leading in snubs or 6" bbls and accuracy is minute of squirrel out to 30 yards for me. They are light shooting and easy on the wallet. Its one of my favorite loads. I have the swc profile but most often use the Lee 158 RF cuz i like it more.

[captaint]

No need to go nuts on the hard crimp,either. Just not necessary with the .38 Spec - or even most magnum loads. I also have a GP-100, you're going to like your new gun a lot.

[firefly1957]

Use the 700X you may find it a bit dirty but shoots well , I use 4.3 grains Red Dot under 148 grain full wadcutters in 38 nice accurate load.

[Petrol & Powder]

Not trying to thread drift, but please expound on CFE if you guys would. I'm always up to try something new...I just do the new thing and then return to the old one!
I'm going to give all the credit to Tazman for my CFE Pistol loads. He was my mentor on that powder.
CFE Pistol is a new powder that seems to be around the ww231 range but a bit bulkier. It meters very well and I'm seriously considering using it to replace 231.
I never ran out of 231 but when I got low I started looking for a replacement and found CFE. It turned out to be a decent 38 Special powder.

[Mauser48]

Bump. Thanks for the suggestions. I get the handgun of background check wednesday but cant get it till saturday. I will post a full detailed review of this handgun this summer when i can get comfortable with it and a lot of rounds down it. I think I might need a rossi 92 to go with it!

[EdS]

The OP asked about 700X in 158gr .38 Special loads for his GP100 - a very strong revolver. For the past year, I've been shooting 3.75gr (average of metered loads) under several different boolits in the 140gr to 160gr range. All have given me excellent accuracy, and in a couple of my fixed-sight S&Ws, shot to point of aim at 15-20 yards. The seem to smack the target backer quite hard and I'd equate them to Ed Harris's "full power" 3.5gr Bullseye loads for field use. My current favorite for this application is the RCBS-140-WC sized .358 for my revolvers. But the older Lyman 35863 shoots just as well. -Ed

[GabbyM]

I shoot 3.3gr of 700X under a 148gr full wad cutter in a 38 Special. It's a big flake powder. But it meters OK in my Dillon with pistol bar. or my Lyman 55 using the top two slides only. Many shooters list it as there favorite 38 Special powder. I just use it because I had eight pounds left from my trap shooting days. That is a bunch of 3.3 grain loads.

[bottomline]

I use it for .38 special (3.0 grs) under 148 SWC gives me 745 fps at 10'. Its a bit dirty, but like others have said but accurate.

I started using it a few years ago when I had a hard time finding pistol powder. I had a couple large cans that i used to use for 12ga trap loads. I have also used it for .45acp.

[Mauser48]

Thanks for the help guys! I just loaded 50 with 3.4 grains of 700x with a 158 swc and 50 with 4.8 grains of CFE pistol and a 158 scw. This was all in 38 special cases. We will se how they do!

[250kt]

How'd they do? I sure don't get all this talk about "dirty" powder??? I've shot pounds of unique, no more dirty then anything else. Any low pressure loading will be dirtier than a higher pressure load of like powder. Who cares? Does the load work? That's what counts. Like people have a fit if there's "unburned" powder in barrel. Again who cares? Load work? Then all is good.

[Mauser48]

I just tried them today. The 700x were the best. Very manageable recoil and very good accuracy. I was shooting from 35-100 yards and hitting whatever I wanted. The 700x was very dirty but shot very good. I didn't have a chance to shoot at paper so I was just shooting steel. I hit a 6 inch chicken at 35 yards offhand. The 700x didn't meter great but a lot better than I expected. I can certainly deal with it. Next time I go shooting I will be able to group it on paper and I will post pics here. Thanks for all your help guys!

[jesse d]

my go to load for 158 gr swc is 5.0gr power pistol,gives me great accuracy from a 4 inch barrel.i actually use 5.5 gr 800x for my snub nose for the same accuracy,out of a 2 inch barrel the power pistol drops about 2 inches from point of aim.

[FergusonTO35]

Hopefully today I will be trying 3.4 grains Bullseye under a Lee 358-158-SWC out of my S&W 10-5. This boolit is a gas check slug but I load them plain base in .38. I size them with the Lee die and then dip in LLA. The skinny grooves and long bearing surface seem to work well this way at least with Accurate #5. Hopefully Bullseye will work just as good since all the Accurate handgun powders died out here a long time ago.

[tazman]

Hopefully today I will be trying 3.4 grains Bullseye under a Lee 358-158-SWC out of my S&W 10-5. This boolit is a gas check slug but I load them plain base in .38. I size them with the Lee die and then dip in LLA. The skinny grooves and long bearing surface seem to work well this way at least with Accurate #5. Hopefully Bullseye will work just as good since all the Accurate handgun powders died out here a long time ago.

I use that load for all my full power 158 grain boolits and it works well. My K38 loves it.
I use 3.0 of Bullseye for plinking and target loads. I tried going clear down to 2.5 grains but accuracy beyond 60 feet suffered.

[jdt81]

Recently I picked up some Alliant BE 86 since it was all I could find. (These day I buy anything that seems usable.)
Turns out its pretty decent powder. Burns clean and it has a flash suppressant (not that you would need to worry about muzzle flash in a 38 spl). It seems a bit faster than Unique.
4.5 gr under a 158 gr SWC or a JHP has been very accurate and very consistent over the chrony - 655 fps with 18 fps spread for the SWC out of a snubbie, and the JHP over the same load is the most accurate load I've stumbled across so far for 38 (Dan Wesson with 6" bbl). I know you didn't mention BE 86, but it's new and seems to be available.

I have used a lot of 700x in my 45 colt and liked it but it was really dirty and lately has been very inconsistent so I stopped using it.

[Char-Gar]

Bullseye is THE classic powder for the 38 Special. With a nominal weight bullets 3.5 grains will equal full factory velocity and 3.0 grains will be an easy shooting target load.

[FergusonTO35]

I did have the chance to try 3.4 grains Bulleye under the Lee 358-158-SWC yesterday and they did great. Easy to shoot and excellent accuracy out of my S&W 10-5. I chrono'd them, and this load easily beats the published 750 fps of most factory 158 grain ammo, and comes very close to the 850 fps of the renowned FBI load. A hotter Winchester or Remington primer would likely push it past that. I think I'm going to stick with this one!

S&W 10-5, 4" barrel
3.4 grains Bullseye
Lee 358-158-SWC sized to .357 and lubed with LLA, seated and crimped in the topmost groove
Federal SP primer, lot no. 5HM111
Low: 826.6
High: 865.7
Average: 847.4
Extreme spread: 39.14
Standard deviation: 13.15
Energy: 248.71 foot-pounds

[FergusonTO35]

On the topic of .38 Special, what are you guys sizing yours to? My S&W 10-5 prefers .357, the bore and chambers on this one seem tighter than others I've had. I don't have nearly as many rounds through my Service Six and Taurus 82 but they seem to do fine with whatever they are fed. I'm thinking that .357 might be they way to go in this cartridge as long as they shoot well. The slightly skinnier boolit doesn't bulge the case as much as the .358, which makes reloading a dirty cylinder easier.

[Char-Gar]

I size my bullets .358, but only because I shoot the same loads through Smith and Wesson and Colts. Smiths generally run .3575 +- in the throats while Colts generally run .359.

If the loads were to be used only in Smith and Wesson handguns, .357 would be what I sized. I size all my bullets that go into 357 Magnum cases, .357 as I only have Smiths with the long charge holes.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. My 10-5 must have "match" chambers. A .358 boolit in thick brass won't just drop in out of the speed loader, you have to give it a little nudge. The Service Six and 82 are much newer and they eat everything, just not as accurate.

[Char-Gar]

Thanks. My 10-5 must have "match" chambers. A .358 boolit in thick brass won't just drop in out of the speed loader, you have to give it a little nudge. The Service Six and 82 are much newer and they eat everything, just not as accurate.

How did a Model 10-5 get "match chambers"? The factory cut them to the same specs as the K-38. Was this a custom shop thing or was it recylindered by a gunsmith.

I have eight or ten 38 Special revolvers and shoot Lake City USGI brass which is pretty thick stuff. I have no problems dropping .358 loaded rounds in the chambers, unless;

A. The crimp is excessive
B. I didn't clean the cylinder charge holes the last time I shot it, which frankly is never.

[FergusonTO35]

I was joking about the match chambers, I just meant they are kind of tight.

Tried the 3.4 Bullseye/358-158-SWC in the Taurus 82 last night and had the same success. Accuracy and chrono numbers were almost identical to the 10-5. This load is a keeper!

[tazman]

I love it when a plan comes together.

[FergusonTO35]

Me too. The Lee 358-158-SWC is a real gem. It is a gas check design which I load as plain base. The only problem with this is when you run them through a lube sizer you get some lube on the base where it is trying to fill the gas check shank. I'll never use this boolit with a gas check as the 358-158-RF works much better for that purpose. I suppose I could take a very sharp knife and whittle down the gas check part of the mold cavity until it is even with the rearmost driving band. Does this sound feasible?

[tazman]

Me too. The Lee 358-158-SWC is a real gem. It is a gas check design which I load as plain base. The only problem with this is when you run them through a lube sizer you get some lube on the base where it is trying to fill the gas check shank. I'll never use this boolit with a gas check as the 358-158-RF works much better for that purpose. I suppose I could take a very sharp knife and whittle down the gas check part of the mold cavity until it is even with the rearmost driving band. Does this sound feasible?

Since it works well the way it is, I wouldn't mess with it.

[Beerd]

Me too. The Lee 358-158-SWC is a real gem. It is a gas check design which I load as plain base. The only problem with this is when you run them through a lube sizer you get some lube on the base where it is trying to fill the gas check shank. I'll never use this boolit with a gas check as the 358-158-RF works much better for that purpose. I suppose I could take a very sharp knife and whittle down the gas check part of the mold cavity until it is even with the rearmost driving band. Does this sound feasible?

Your Lee 358-158-RF has a gas check?
..

[sniper]

The "Classic" target load for the 38/357 was 3.5 gr. Bullseye. My IPSC load for years was 150-158 cast, 5.5gr. Unique, 357 cases. No criticism, but when 357 Mag. brass is readily available...Amazon.com/Starline,why not buy that? 5.0 gr. Unique make heap good .38 load in bigger brass! ;-) :)

[tazman]

I am a cheapskate when possible. 357 mag brass is at least twice as expensive as 38 special brass the way I buy it(used/once fired). The 38 special brass also uses less powder to achieve the same velocities.
I did tests with the same load in 38 special brass and 357 mag brass. For me the accuracy was the same. Others have different results. Since I clean my chambers after each outing, I don't have any issues with carbon build up in the cylinders of my 357mag. Most of my 38 caliber guns are chambered for 38 special anyway, so I save my magnum brass for full power loads.

[at_liberty]

Thanks guys! I also just bought a pound of h110 if anyone wants to share some hotter loads!I am just a pedestrian when it comes to knowledge of lead bullets, but I think I do know what to buy and what not to use. My understanding is that H110 is too hot for bullets without gas checks.

[at_liberty]

Thanks to all the help on here I just decided to buy a stainless 6 inch ruger gp100 last weekend. Now I'm on the search for a good load. At the last gun show I picked up a box of bear creek moly coated 158 grain semi wad cutters. I have 38 special cases on the way, standard small pistol primers, 700x, and cfe pistol. I would strongly prefer to use the 700x because I bought a 4lb keg for 12 gauge. I'm looking for a nice light target load to plink with (not mouse fart light). Does anyone have a pet load with this combination? I would like to get some pretty good accuracy. All shooting is done on steel plates from 35 yards to 100 yards. Also, how about leading? I'm very new to loading cast bullets but not new to reloading in general. Anyone try something like this on jackrabbits? How tight of a crimp do I need? Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys!I use 700-x in 44-40 and believe that as one of the more coarse powders you would have to be considerate in how you measured a charge under 5 grains, hoping to get some consistency in drops. I think the finer powders do better in smaller charges. Personally I am using HP38 and Bullseye in my 38 Special target loads. I don't use my 38 Specials for much else except when I would prefer purchased ammo for carry purposes. When I power up, I go to my 357 Magnums. Enjoy that GP100.

[cherokeetracker]

Thanks to all the help on here I just decided to buy a stainless 6 inch ruger gp100 last weekend. Now I'm on the search for a good load. At the last gun show I picked up a box of bear creek moly coated 158 grain semi wad cutters. I have 38 special cases on the way, standard small pistol primers, 700x, and cfe pistol. I would strongly prefer to use the 700x because I bought a 4lb keg for 12 gauge. I'm looking for a nice light target load to plink with (not mouse fart light). Does anyone have a pet load with this combination? I would like to get some pretty good accuracy. All shooting is done on steel plates from 35 yards to 100 yards. Also, how about leading? I'm very new to loading cast bullets but not new to reloading in general. Anyone try something like this on jackrabbits? How tight of a crimp do I need? Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys!
I understand the reason behind the 700X Just to give you another alternative, and that is WST. Use the same amount of powder, with the 158 grain bullet you are using. The WST is a shotgun powder also, and is very clean. It also meters well and has been a good performer with 38 SP and 45 ACP target loads. You should be within 20 FPS of the 700X loads. Both loads are on Hodgdon Website. Just to give you an idea, just about any of the faster burning Pistol Powders, and a few Shotgun powders will work. That's the beauty of the 38 Sp. You just have to try them in "Your Gun" as every gun is different.

[Mauser48]

I have shy about 400 rounds now with 700x and it works pretty darn good. Meters pretty acceptable for me too.

[FergusonTO35]

I am really liking 3.4 grains Bullseye under a 150-162 grain lead slug in my .38's. It is accurate, easy shooting, and has enough punch for defense if you had to. I still have some 700X left over from when it was all I could find, I'll try that also. 700X does fill the case alot more than Bullseye so it may just do really well in the .38.

[GabbyM]

Trick to get 700x metering is to settle it down. Tap the measure a few dozen times. Then throw a dozen or more charges. Then start adjusting for weight. After about forty loads check and adjust again. Don't allow measure tube to get below half full. This way powder gets settled from shake as you run. Toss those first fifty or so rounds into a paper sandwich bag then take them out to shoot double action silly gun stuff.

[GabbyM]

My only 357 mag revolver is a bit of a *** Colt. It runs about 100 fps slower with my 38 Special rounds that the same loads in my K frame 38's. It also leads up badly in the two oversized cylinders.
Not got around to trying my full power loads in 357 cases. Since I lack motivation.

[Fernando]

I always use a baffle in the hopper with flake powders 700X/ Red dot
Helps the uniformity

[FergusonTO35]

I use a baffle in my Uniflow for all powders, it helps alot. This is the only measure I have found that will drop 700X with any kind of regularity.

[paul h]

I am just a pedestrian when it comes to knowledge of lead bullets, but I think I do know what to buy and what not to use. My understanding is that H110 is too hot for bullets without gas checks.

I've had no problems using H-110 with plain based 360640's in my 357, or various 400 gr cast in my 480. Excellent accuracy and only minor leading if any. H-110 is my go to powder for heavy for caliber bullets in magnum revolvers.

[at_liberty]

I've had no problems using H-110 with plain based 360640's in my 357, or various 400 gr cast in my 480. Excellent accuracy and only minor leading if any. H-110 is my go to powder for heavy for caliber bullets in magnum revolvers.
Where does one get tested loads for H110 and bare lead?

[jonp]

3.0gr Promo under whatever I'm shooting in my 38sp

[tazman]

Where does one get tested loads for H110 and bare lead?

Lyman reloading manuals have them.

[paul h]

Hodgdon has some data for a plainbase 370 gr in the 480, couldn't find any for the .357 on their web data but I know I've seen it in the past somewhere. And while I don't have a laboratory of pressure testing equipment, I have burned pounds of H-110 propelling 1000's of cast bullets through magnum revolvers with plain based cast bullets. It works and works well, but all caveats apply to working up your own loads in your guns. The two caveats with H-110 is it does not work well with light for caliber bullets and it is a full power only powder.

And with all the 357 threads I didn't notice this was a 38 special thread. H-110 has no business in a 38 special.

[tazman]

And with all the 357 threads I didn't notice this was a 38 special thread. H-110 has no business in a 38 special.

^^^^ very true. I can't think that H110 would work in 38 special. 357 mag--yes.