Maven's day at the range with the .30HBC

[Maven]

All, I took your advice and used a much slower powder (IMR 5010) with the .30HBC in my .30-06 and was rewarded for my efforts, but there were no 1-hole groups! In the past I used WC 820 with mixed results. To wit, 18.5gr. produced mostly fliers at 100 yds. whereas 16gr. produced a 1" x 1 1/2" group (9 could be covered by a quarter) at that same distance. I.e., I got accuracy, but not much velocity (I'm guessing <1,600fps). Today I decided to test those pointed CB's by sizing them to .311" instead of .310" and with 47gr. IMR 5010 + 1cc Grex (used Fed. 215 primers). Past experience chronographing 5010 loads suggests the velocity of 47gr. (wi. Grex) was ~ 1,720fps. The good news is that all shots landed on target and grouped reasonably well. In fact the last 10 shots went into 1 1/2" x 1 7/8" (at 100 yds.), which isn't very impressive. However, 6 of those 10 grouped into 1 1/8" x 1/2"; 4 of those could be covered by a dime. Btw, the bullets were cast from WW's + 1% Sn and air-cooled and the rifle is more accurate than I am.

I suppose I could add another grain of powder to push the speed up to ~1,750 fps, but standard deviations start to climb after 47gr. with either Grex or powdered bran/Bf in my experience. I intend to retest this combination at both .310" and .311" in the near future, but I don't think the performance of the .30HBC will equal that of Ly. #311644 in my '06.

[Buckshot]

.............Kinda seems to make the idea of me breaking out my copy (haven't cast the first one yet) and casting some up a waste of time, Of course I suppose there WAS that one guy ole MOA Shooter (heh, heh) posted results about. I'll be it sure makes an impressive looking loaded cartridge!

Maven you need to get out shooting more, it's getting on to be winter up there isn't it?

.............Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

All, I took your advice and used a much slower powder (IMR 5010) with the .30HBC in my .30-06 and was rewarded for my efforts, but there were no 1-hole groups!

Paul,

If you want to try a little more velocity, here is where Jumps's 7828 would come in. It should maintain SD and allow you to go on up with just a standard primer and the grex of coarse. The fact that you got to that point with ACWW leaves a lot of top end to try. My only other experience with a spitzer cast is a 160 LBT which won't impress until the 2200 fps level.

[Maven]

Bass, I don't think 7828 is available locally and I surely don't need to pay a stiff Hazmat fee to obtain it. However, will retest the .30HBC with 48gr. 5010 and maybe even heat-treat them if I can regulate my oven. I'm thinking a dose of IMR 4350 or 7383 may work in lieu of 7828.

Buckshot, Although the calendar says it's Autumn, the temperature says otherwise: We've had no frost yet (usually have one by 9/20); my day lillies are still blooming; and it was close to 80 deg. today. The glorious colors of the fall foliage, maples and oaks in particular, are at least two weeks behind schedule. The good news is that we don't need air conditioning now and it hasn't really been cold enough to turn on the furnace. However, I do have to wear several shirts when riding my bike.

[Trailblazer]

I tested some of the HBC's last winter in my 30-06(22" barrel). I did not have a proper nose punch and so mangled the noses a bit. Some of the gas checks weren't well seated either because I was trying different ways to seat the check. They were ugly but I loaded them and shot them anyway at 50 yards with a scope.

25 grs. 4198 gave 1770 fps and put 4 into .76", 5 in 1.72"
30 grs. 7383 gave 1500 fps and put 5 into 1.57"
30 grs. AA2495 gave 1830 fps and put 5 into 2.9"
55 grs. AA8700 gave 1930 fps and put 4 into 1.5", 5 in 3.9"

These were cast from WW + maybe 10% linotype and water dropped. Some of the bullet holes showed signs of tipping and at least one bullet lost its check as the check hit the chronograph. Like I said, these were ugly bullets! Still the velocities may be useful to you. The 4198 showed the most potential, but I really need to test again with pretty bullets! I am going to cast a bunch up in the next week or so and hope to try it again within the month. This time I will make a decent nose punch or I may seat gas checks nose first.

[culexx]

Maven, glad to see that someone else is working to get the 30 HBC to shoot. I am casting HBC's with 50/50 lino/ww + a little monotype at 650 F. and quenching the slugs. BH is 30.1 These boolets weigh in the range of 198- 199 grains,lubed with FWFL (both groves) and sized to .310. Seating the boolett to jam into the lands. Using 41.0 grains of Scotts 4351 with no filler. ten shot groups average 1.5 to 2.0 inches at 100 yards. Velocity is 2330 f/s. Sure lets your shoulder know. I am shooting a .308 Win. M70 target with a heavy Hart barrel and a 24x scope.
Untill three weeks ago I was about ready to give up, because all loads were about three to four inches using Scotts 4165. During this time I was adding one grain of Dacron. Since 4351 filled the case well, I decided to forgo the Dacron. Could not belive the one hole after 4 shots. Then, things (me) opened the group to 2 inches; but got my jucices flowing.
My goal is to acheive 2400 f/s and MOA at 100 yards and then move to the 300 yard target.

Maybe tomorrow or Thursday I will try 41.5 and 42.0 grains of 4351
Note: When I started, I was using 22 BH boolets. My results show that this boolet needs to be harder than woodpecker lips to shoot. Since the gas checks are hard to start, I seat them solidly before sizing. Good luck , CULEXX

[Maven]

Trailblazer, Those long, pointy noses certainly are a PITA to size! I've been using a Lee push through .311" sizing die, which does a great job. If I need to go to .310", Lyman's top punch for #311644 works well enough (Don't have a lathe). Btw, I've had great results in the '06 with 24gr. IMR 4198, but not with the .30HBC.

[Bass Ackward]

I'm thinking a dose of IMR 4350 or 7383 may work in lieu of 7828.

Paul,

Sure it will work, but probably not with filler at that bullet weight. But CULEXX is making my point. Glad to see guys stick with it and ring out the design. Helps break stereo types.

[Trailblazer]

Maven, the pointy nose is sure a problem. The nose punch in the seater die does not fit either so I need to do something with that also. I loaded the last of my IMR 7828 for deer season so I can't try that unless I pull bullets from my hunting ammo. Deer season is over for me so I could do that. I also have WC852, H450, IMR and H 4350, IMR and H 4831 and RL25 and 5010. Maybe one of them will work.

25 grs. of 4198 is one of my best 30-06 loads.

[culexx]

Maven and Trailblazer, Went to the range this morning to try to wring out better groups with a modified HBC nose. Groups were smaller, but those flyers always opened then up. I really need to improve my bencrest technique. Felix always mentions the skill needed to shoot tight groups. Since the HBC nose punch was leaving distorted lead rings on the ogive, I decided to use a Lyman #413 nose punch when I sized the booletts.This changes about 1/8 of the tip ogive, plus elimates any minor defects. And the Results:All are 10 shot groups at 100 yards
1)41.0 gr.4351,188.5 +/- .1 gr.HBC, 210M fed primer, sized .310 = 2275 f/s
41.5 f/s ES, SD= 12 8 shots= 1.25 in. 10 shots= 1.720 in.
Second group= 2253 f/s, ES = 45.8, SD= 13.5. 9 shots= 1.25in. 10
shots=1.5

2) 41.0 gr. 4351,189.5 +/-.5 gr.HBC, CCI 250 primer, sized .310 =2241 f/s
ES= 40 f/s, SD=13. 9 shots=1.160, 10 shots= 1.430 in.
Second group=2242 f/s, ES=63, SD= 17. 9 shots=1.330, 10 shots= 1.850

3) 41.5 gr. 4351, 189.5 +/-.5 gr. HBC, CCI 200 primer, sized .310 =2238 f/s
ES=50, SD=15. 8 shots=1.25, 10 shots= 2.150 in.

4) 42.0 gr.4351, 189.5 +/- .5 gr. HBC, CCI 200 primer, sized .310 =2278 f/s
9 shots= 2.4 in. 10 shots= 3.0

Note: All boolets were quenched to 30.1 BH. Case necks were sootie.
I will get some 4831 SC to try.Going to stick with the 210M primer for remainder of my testing, as I increase the powder charge. Culexx

[Maven]

Culexx, Those are impressive groups, given the "problem child" bullet we're using. I'll be casting some of them in the next several days and will try them at both .310" and .311" (with heat-treatment) over 49gr. IMR 7383* (milsurp substitute for IMR 4350 in certain cartridges, e.g. the .30-06 and .243Win.). I'll be happy to get the results you did!

*The 48th edition of Lyman's Reloading Handbk. gives starting loads of 49gr. and 50gr. for 190 and 200gr. jacketed spire points in the .30-06. 7383 can substitute for 4350 if you stay clsoe to starting loads and use standard LR primers.

[Trailblazer]

Culexx, if I get groups like that I will be satisfied. I want to use it for rifle silhouette and 1 to 2 moa groups at 2200 would be good enough to start with. Probably cast some up on the weekend.