Model 60 Smith 3" as a carry gun. Opinions wanted

[tazman]

I am looking for opinions and experience from the good people on this site as relates to carrying a Smith & Wesson model 60 3inch as a concealed carry gun.
I don't have it yet, but am looking seriously at one in a nearby gun store. I intend to shoot 38 special loads in it regardless of whether it can chamber 357 mag or not.
The gun feels good in my hand and seems to point easily/naturally for me. I think I would be better able to hit with the 3" barrel than something shorter.

What experiences have you had with one and what is your preferred carry method with it?

For reference, I am 6 feet tall and weigh about 265lb. I am 63 years old and have bad knees so I can't really run from a fight any more(not that I ever did).
I expect all usage for this pistol to be target practice to familiarize myself with it and close range personal/family protection from concealed carry.
I have other, more substantial weapons for home use.( 357mag, 9mm, 40S&W, 12 gauge, etc)
All opinions will be considered and appreciated.

[Petrol & Powder]

I am a huge fan of revolvers for SD and have owned/shot/carried 38 snub nose revolvers for years. (decades)

While I find the 5 shot, J-frame to be an excellent tool for concealed carry and I think a 3" K-frame sized gun has tremendous value as a fighting tool......I've never understood the value of a 3" J-frame.
If you're going to step up to a 3" barrel there is no value in my eyes to saddle yourself with a small grip frame and a 5 shot cylinder. If you put bigger grips on the J-frame to compensate for the small grip, you might as well step up to a K-frame.
That's not law, only my opinion but one formed after many years of training with revolvers.
YMMV

[Petrol & Powder]

And to address the OP's question concerning carry methods, allow me to point out that there are limitations to carry methods based on the overall size of the gun. A 2" (1 7/8" for S&W J-frame) revolver can be carried in an ankle holster (probably not the best choice for the OP with bad knees). A DAO, 2" snubnose can be carried in a pocket, where as a 3" revolver probably cannot be carried in most pockets. If you are forced to use a holster, the advantage of the 2" barrel goes away. It then becomes just as easy to conceal a 3" barrel as a 2" barrel. At that point the concealment advantage of the J-frame goes away and the K-frame becomes a better option. The larger grip frame and 6 round cylinder are less of a concealment handicap if a holster is required anyway.
The strength of the 5 shot, J-frame is its ability to be easily concealed. The strength of the K-frame is that it is easier to shoot accurately.

[Outpost75]

Agree with P&P.

If you are going to have to carry a revolver in a belt holster, not in the pocket, you want six shots and not 5. With a proper designed IWB holster a 3" or 4" K-frame can be concealed effectively, especially if you are a big guy. You mentioned that you have other handguns in .357, 9mm and .40, so it may be worth discussing which options you have their for concealment in a proper holster. The 3" J-frame does make a great ladies gun, or as a second gun to carry backup.

[RobsTV]

I really wanted to like carrying a 60-15. Bought a very comfortable Alien Gear IWB holster for it and another for a 40 S&W Shield. But for me, the 3" 60 was too thick compared to the Shield, and the Shield was much more comfortable, pretty much forget it is there. Even pocket carry with Shield is doable. Not so much with the 3" model 60. I still enjoy shooting the Model 60-15 much better than the Shield though, and it is used much more at the range.

[williamwaco]

I have four of the small Smiths. Been accumulating them since about 1960 .

A 2" m60 sleeps on my night stand.
A 3" m36 HB was my favorite carry piece for 40 years.
About 3years ago, it lost its crown to a Ruger 101 3".

I find the 3" significantly easier to hit with than the 2" but don't expect to shoot it like a 6"

[Kraschenbirn]

Only reason my principal CCW gun isn't a 3" M60 is because I couldn't find one at the time and opted for a 3" SP101 because it was available at a reasonable price but, after 8 years, I don't really notice the extra weight. I'm a moderately large person...6'0", 195 lbs...and my Ruger conceals and carries quite comfortably in an IWB holster so long as I let my shirt tail hang out. (My 'summer wear' is usually an unbuttoned Hawaiian shirt over a sleeveless tank top and bike shorts.)

Bill

[LUCKYDAWG13]

if you didn't buy it yet i would take a look at the 642 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764961_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
i bought a 3" SP101 and wish that it had a shorter barrel just for pocket carry but if the 60 is calling to you then buy it

[Petrol & Powder]

138204From bottom up: DAO model 442- 1 7/8" bbl(5 shot J-frame),
DAO model 64- 2" bbl (6 shot K-frame)
Model 65 - 3" barrel (6 shot K-frame, .357 mag)

The lightweight DAO J-frame is the easiest to conceal
The 2" model 64 can be carried in the pocket of a coat but ideally should be carried in a holster.
The 3" model 65 is strictly a holster gun but is easily concealed in a good OWB holster.

The 3" model 65 is the stainless version of the 3" round butt model 13. It is easy to shoot, easy to carry/conceal and offers a lot of gun. If you're going to step up to a 3" barreled revolver you might as well step up to something with a full sized grip and a slightly larger cylinder, it is much easier to shoot and no more difficult to conceal.

[Petrol & Powder]

if you didn't buy it yet i would take a look at the 642
i bought a 3" SP101 and wish that it had a shorter barrel just for pocket carry but if the 60 is calling to you then buy it

The SP101 is a fine gun but when equipped with a 3" barrel it is no longer a pocket gun. The SP101 is a bit on the heavy side but a very strong gun. The 642 is not only lighter due to its alloy frame but it is also hammerless, which is critical for pocket carry.

[Reaper]

Plus one on the m36 3in Heavy Barrel with a Tyler-T-GRIP and pancake holster. Loaded with wadcutters, hollow base up, it's a potent package. My Combat Masterpiece and model 67 are not as concealable. Recently started carrying a Ruger LC9. Very concealable in an IWB holster. Need to find an extra magazine.

[Petrol & Powder]

Since we are addressing the issue of possible pocket carry let me say very clearly that hammer spurs and pocket carry do not go together.

Snubnose revolvers are fighting tools and with practice can be quite accurate but there is very little need (no need in my book) to ever fire one in single action mode. Most of the time a hammer spur on a snubnose is more of a liability than an asset. I cannot fathom a situation in which I would want to fire a 2" barreled revolver in single action. These are close range combat guns not target pistols.

[stu1ritter]

I have been carrying a 60-15 for a few years now in a Lobo slide OWB. I wear my shirts out of my pants and find that it is covered and doesn't print at all. I carry hand loaded 148r. DEWC loaded as warm as possible and the gun is amazingly accurate at 50 feet. 10 ring is no problem and it really is X ring with a two hand hold. That extra inch of barrel is worth the hassle of carrying it. My other carry gun is a 15-2 2" and the 60-15 really outshoots it.
Stu

[Piedmont]

I don't think a 3" J frame is a good carry gun. I have one as well as a 2" M64 and never carry either. The 2" J frames work great in a pocket and are good for appendix carry if you don't have a gut. But on the belt or inside the belt a small autoloader is flatter and carries more rounds. When I strap on a belt gun for protection it is Makarov or K-9 Kahr.

[Petrol & Powder]

There are fundamental differences between revolvers & pistols but that horse has been beaten to death in countless other discussions.

[tazman]

The likelihood of me needing more than 5 rounds when out shopping is minimal and will be covered to an extent by carrying a speed strip or 2. If a couple of shots gets me to my car, there will be larger capacity hardware available inside.
I considered a small auto but haven't shot one that worked well for me as they are mostly just too small to feel comfortable in my hand. The grip on the model 60 I handled did feel good. Most snubbies I have handled did not.
If I have to restrict myself to a 2" barrel, I won't get one. With my eyes, I can't shoot one well enough to suit my idea of competency.
I also just shoot better with revolvers than I do with autos. Not so much at short combat range but the difference is still there. It may all be in my mind, but I feel a good revolver is more reliable than an auto even though my 9mm and 40S&W pistols have run reliably for me.
If I were to get a K frame to carry, I would probably just get a 4" and be done with it. I like the idea of that model 60 under the shirt tails though.

[Rustyleee]

Tazman you gotta go with what you feel comfortable with. I've carried a S&W J frame for almost 40 years now. Either a 36, 60, or a 640. I've never felt bad about my choice.

[rintinglen]

138225138226138227138228
I have a fondness for snubbies that exceeds the bounds of rational behavior. Yet I can only applaud your choice of a 3 inch. The DSII in the above selection shoots much more like a 4 inch than a 2 inch. In a holster, it carries as well as any of the others and shoots far better, or at least, I can shoot it better. I shoot it better than the larger K-frame snubbie. I would much rather have it in hand than any of my small autos. 50 yards is doable with practice, while my ability to shoot a 2 inch well peters out around 25. YMMV, but I think you'll find the 3 inch a better choice than one of it's short-barreled compadres.

[Bullwolf]

Model 60's in 3 inch can be somewhat hard to come by, and fetch a premium.

I'd get it just because you may not see another one for a while, and you will kick yourself later if you don't. I know I would like to have a 3 inch one. The somewhat longer sight radius really sounds like what you want after all.

That being said, I tend to gravitate towards the comfort of a 2 inch 38 special with a concealed hammer and an alloy frame, especially if I plan on keeping one in my pocket for longer periods of time.

Yet my 38 Special model 60 (2 inch pinned barrel Chief's Special) is my walk around outside gun for those times when I don't feel like putting on a belt and holster. It gets used more than anything else too, for that very reason.

Walk around might be too strong a term, as it also may ride in the front seat of the truck when I go open up a gate, or in the battery box of the tractor with me. It wears a pair of Desanti Clip Grips and often ends up in a pocket, or a pocket holster despite the hammer spur. My model 60 often accompanies me on trips to the well, short walks, or just a trip to the barn. The round under the hammer is almost always snake shot.

For comfort my 442 gets the nod for weight, and no hammer spur for long periods of time, but I like the security of the Model 60 in a holster with a snap over the hammer, much more than a hammer less Centennial in a snug fit open top holster.

The slightly heavier Model 60 is more fun to shoot than an Airweight revolver, but less fun to have in your pocket all day. My DAO SP101, which I rarely use is much the same. (too heavy for pocket carry, and I don't like hammer less revolvers in no snap holsters) If I'm intentionally putting on a belt and holster, often something 4 inch like my Dan Wesson 15-2 will be worn instead.

My ex wife was most fond of a 3 inch Lady Smith model 65.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/4894134305/7135330/2a0a59ffc36ff6f4d42edec604b94542.jpg

I'm not calling it a woman's gun or anything though, as I liked it a lot too. It was a nice package all around for either sex. The model 65 also gives you 6 rounds instead of 5, if you don't mind the size, and plan on wearing it in a holster.

If I had to have a 3 inch 6 shot Smith, I might bead blast a model 65 Lady Smith (removing the Lady Smith logo) just for myself. It's about the perfect weight frame size for me, with a 6 shot cylinder. Fun for range use, and carry size. Not too small, and not too large. After writing all this out, I really wish that she hadn't taken it with her in the divorce.

What you like, and want to carry, is all very personal. All I can really say is what works for me, which likely will be different than what works for you. Especially since I'm not trying to conceal a gun on my frame often, but to secure it so it won't fall out when I'm doing something silly like climbing a tree, or crawling under a fence, or cutting wood, etc. I want a holster that holds a gun securely through lots of abuse, and also protects the gun some as well.

Your needs will likely be quite different than mine, but I hope one or two of my opinions or experiences helps in some way.



- Bullwolf

[Sasquatch-1]

I carried both a model 64 and a model 60, both 2 inch barrels, for many years in an off duty capacity. I mainly carried in a soft leather in the pants holster. At the time the department I work for issued 4" Model 10's for uniform personnel. We had to qualify twice a year and I consistently shot better with the 2" guns then I did with the 4 inch. At the time I was a little taller and a little lighter then you are now. The biggest problem with the holster I used was I carried my weight around my waist and not around my chest. Fat and waist band carry don't mix well. As stated before in an earlier post, the grips on the 60 are very small, but, unless you are planning to shoot at someone over 10 yards away it is not a problem.

[winelover]

I too have bad knees and I can tell the difference in weight between my 13 oz. 642 and 17 oz. LCR 357. As result, I mostly opt for the Airweight. My 2" Model 60 (38 Spl) is relegated for practice, only. I don't feel handicapped with a 5 shot. In fact, I carry the first chamber with a snake shot round. Pocket carry, in a Mika holster, is my preferred mode so 3" barrel are not even a consideration.

Winelover

[Petrol & Powder]

While we are talking about small revolvers I'd like to toss in a shameless plug for two products.

The Tyler T-grip adaptor and the Eagle "Secret Service" grips.

The Tyler T-grip adaptor is a bit old school but it is very good old school. It greatly improves the grip of a revolver without added bulk. They were once very popular, inexpensive devices but seem to have fallen to the wayside in recent times. It's a shame because they are simple and work well.

The Eagle "Secret Service" Grips are nothing more than a copy of the Craig Spegel Boot Grip, which is an outstanding design. Many manufacturers produce some copy of the boot grip and the Eagle Grips are just one of the many similar copies available. (one of the better ones IMHO). The Boot Grip concept is basically the same as the Tyler T-Grip; it fills the area between the front strap and the trigger guard without adding bulk to the back, sides and bottom of the grip. While not ideal for target work it does greatly improve the handling of the revolver without compromising concealment.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread :D......

[Jeff82]

+1 for the Tyler T grip. I carry a Model 36 2" usually in a pocket holster. I find it accurate and easy to carry. I don't know if the 3" barrel would limit your method of carry. I think it really comes down to how much gun you want and how much convenience you're looking for in your carry options. I find that the Model 36 or a North American Arms mini-revolver cover most of my needs.

The Model-60 3" is a great revolver. If you really need a 3" barrel and have a means to comfortably carry it, then I think you're on the right track. Even if you don't end up using it as a carry gun, it's still a great and pretty scarce firearm to have in your collection.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I had a S&W Airweight Model 37 .38 Special many years ago. Very sorry I traded it away. Most accurate. Hitting an 18" target at 100 yards with 158 grain SWC was not hard. Much easier than with a 2". I had a rubber grip, probably Pachmayr. Finding holsters for the 3" was more difficult. Everybodies brother-in-law makes a 2" J-frame holster. The 3" holsters are usually made by the 'custom' guys. I would buy another if the right one came along. If you are really worried about gunfighting you would probably want a 1911 or high-cap 9. To go to the convenience store or Walmart, 5 shots should get you back to the truck for your Mini-30.

[Petrol & Powder]

"5 shots should get you back to the truck for your Mini-30. "

If you use a firearm to survive a deadly force threat; that's called self defense.

If you survive the deadly force encounter, make it back to your truck and go back looking for what was the threat.....that's called 2nd degree murder. It might even be called 1st degree murder.

Let your conscience be your guide

[EMC45]

Handled one the other day at a local shop. It was new and nice. It was the 60-15, adj. sights, full underlug .357 magnum. The only thing I didn't care for was the grips from the factory. Felt like I was holding a squished banana. They are quite hard to find, and this one was costly.

[Rick Hodges]

I carried a Model 36 3" as backup and off duty for many years. What I find hard to conceal is the width of the weapon, not the barrel length. I found the 3" much easier to shoot well than the 2".
+1 the Tyler T-Grip adapter.
Today I carry an autoloader. Even a 1911 is narrower than a Model 36/60.

[357Mag]

TAZ -

Howdy !

I myself would recommend against use of .38SPL... especially from a 3" barrel; for your self defense.

You come up against some doper on PCP, Angle Dust, snorting bath salts, what have you; and you're gonna need all the
power your self defense gun can provide. 425 ft lb is a pretty good threshold value, for usefull " stopping power " on a humanoid target. The notional .38Spl load won't get you there.

The calibres/cartridges that attain highest percentages of " one shot stops " all attain at least the 425 ft lb threshold level. In an example case of 125gr .357Mag self defense ammo, most manufacturers provide rounds that can generate well above 425 ft lbs of energy.

Look at the specs for other proven combos like .45ACP 200gr ball ammo and the newer .40 S & W stuff; and you'll see what I mean.


With regards,
357Mag

[NorthMoccasin]

Taz, I have a 60-15 3" as and find it perfect for the uses you describe. Concealment in a Iwb hoster is not a problem, and it is much easier to hit with than my 2" M-36 I carry it with the 135 speer 357 loads and practice with 38 cast. I have a SP101 4" and love it, but it is a little heavy. The stopping power of the 357 is unquestioned. I currently have autos as well (Sig 239, CZ 83) but they do not suit me as well as the wheel guns. Yes I have shot a lot with 1911's (45, 9mm, 9X23,38 super) but that is just too much iron for everyday putting around for me. If you like the feel of the 60-15 then go for it!

[725]

For me there isn't a better choice for CC. Mod 60 - 3". .38's are generally on par with 9mm's as far as effectiveness and will function better when TSHTF. Tunnel vision and gross motor skills take over when it gets crunchy and there are just too many little things that can conspire to force a semi to fail. Get the .38.

[Char-Gar]

Well, I might as well chime in and swim upstream.

I often carry a small revolver in my pants pocket in a DeSantis holster. These have hammer spurs and I have never had one catch on my clothing and I have removed them many hundreds of times. I would agree they make no sense for belt carry, but for pocket carry them make lots of sense.

I have three such revolvers and they all get carried in front pocket of my cargo shorts/pants.

1. A 2" S&W Chief Special
2. A 3" S&W Chief Special
3. A 3" Colt Detective Special

The 3" does offer several advantages over the 2". There is the extra velocity, the extra sight radius the the longer ejector rod. The disadvantage is of course more bulk. Both the S&Ws are the older square butt designs. I DO NOT LIKE the round butt versions.

Each of my 3 small revolvers now wear old Mustang grips. While they increase the bulk a little the control they give with the small popper is vastly improved. Here is a pic of my 2" Chief Special. I have the same grip on the others.

The choice of a self defense pistol is very personal and I am comfortable with my choices. In cooler weather when I can wear a cover, I carry a Glock 19 on the belt. I tend to like a good belt slide that fits close to the body.

There is no handgun made that is adequate defense against a several guys high on drugs, six Bloods and Crips, or the Mexican cartels bent on doing you in. In those cases you need an atomic vaporizer, which isn't available over the counter. The purpose of a self defense handgun is to allow you to get the heck out of there. Don't stand and fight, run! I don't go anywhere these "worse case scenario types" might be.
I don't hang out with bad people or go where bad people hang out. I don't mess with other men's wives or girlfriends. I don't go to bars or drink excessively in public. I am polite to everybody and don't act like an *** hole.

I have tried several times to find an IWB holster that was comfortable and I have bought some expensive ones. These things are just not comfortable. Some have told me I just don't know how to do it, but I am as smart at the next guy and have tried these every way the experts suggest, but they still hurt.

I use the Hensley and Gibbs #244 flat nose wadcutter over 3.5/Bulleye and I do carry some extra ammo.

A Beretta DAO 96 (40 S&W) and three loaded 11 round mags live in my Ford F150 pickup. In the house, I have an Ithaca Police Special 12 ga loaded with buckshot. For something real serious, I have a good Garand and 500 rns of M2AP in clips. The purpose of my carry guns is to help me "get gone" or get to something more serious.

[Petrol & Powder]

I fail to see the benefit of a 3" barreled, round butt model 60 that has an overall length of 7.5" over a 3" barreled, round butt model 65 that has an overall length of 8".

If we swap out the 3" model 65 for a 2.5" barreled model 19 or 66 the overall length is identical to the 3" J-framed model 60.

For 1/2" more total length and the same length barrel OR for a 1/2" shorter barrel and the SAME total length, you can get 6 rounds and a full sized grip.

The overall weight of the K-frame is slightly more but not much. The overall diameter of the cylinder is slightly larger with the K-frame, but not much. For holster carry the differences in weight and width are insignificant.

I get a 2" J-frame snubnose; it's easy to conceal.
I do not get a 3" J-frame that is the same size as a K-frame. You lose nothing by going to a K-frame and gain a much better grip.

[salvadore]

I'm not an expert like a lot of the posters in here, but I bought this the first year they became available.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/Picture076.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/Picture076.jpg.html)

The hammer spur will catch on clothing...wait a minute, mine doesn't have one. I've since rounded off the sides of the rear sight blade. I carry it all day when I go to Jellystone and never suffered bruises or contusions and it disappears nicely.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg.html)

I like full range WC loads for SD and make something like the FBI load with a soft alloy 358156 HP. K think I prefer the WC.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'll agree with Char-Gar's views except for hammer spurs on snubnose revolvers and only buck shot in the pump action 12 ga. (empty chamber followed by 2 buck shot then 2 slugs)

But also I'd drink a beer with him and politely listen to what he has to offer. :drinks:

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm not an expert like a lot of the posters in here, but I bought this the first year they became available.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/Picture076.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/Picture076.jpg.html)

The hammer spur will catch on clothing...wait a minute, mine doesn't have one. I've since rounded off the sides of the rear sight blade. I carry it all day when I go to Jellystone and never suffered bruises or contusions and it disappears nicely.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg.html)

I like full range WC loads for SD and make something like the FBI load with a soft alloy 358156 HP. K think I prefer the WC.

I really like the "hip grip" stocks and the Tyler T-grip adaptor !! :D
You should check out the "Werner carry system" https://snubtraining.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/snub-training-werner-carry-system/ which the same setup with the addition of a Houge rubber grip reversed and placed over the grips.

[salvadore]

P&P, does turning it inside out offer a slicker surface? I gave up on Hogue rubber grips because my shirt wouldn't slide over them..You know when my shirt rode up over the grip it wouldn't ride back down. I have a Colt Cobra I could carry, but I kinda baby it and keep it in the console of my rig.

[Petrol & Powder]

The Hogue grip sleeve is not turned inside out in the Werner Carry System, it is just installed upside down. Yea, you're correct that it would grab your shirt tail. The Hogue sleeve is pretty "tacky" soft rubber. I wonder if a section of inner tube would work? Or maybe a piece of heat shrink tubing if you could find one big enough?

Your excellent use of a Barami Hip Grip coupled with a Tyler T-grip adaptor is 2/3's of the Werner Carry system and it reminded me of that option. Like you, I prefer grips that don't grab cloth. Wooden grips are still my favorite. They don't grab clothing but provide a good surface even when your hands are sweating.

[Bullwolf]

My newer model 442 came from Smith & Wesson with a Desanti Clip grip already installed, and a pair of S&W logo rubber boot grips (not installed) in the box.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=539&pictureid=4781

I found out that I actually like this convenient inexpensive plastic grip with a "clip" for cargo shorts pocket or a waistband. They are somewhat checkered for a more secure grip, yet they resemble the same profile of the boot grips for J-frames that I'm familiar with.

http://www.desantisholster.com/desantisholster/content/images_inv/b/l/1709/T07_Clip_Grip_IWB_large2_1709.jpg

http://www.desantisholster.com/desantisholster/content/images_inv/b/l/1709/T07_Rear_large3_1709.jpg

I know it's just another variation of the Barami Hip Grip, but my Barami's are kind of scratched up, and made from cheap feeling slippery smooth plastic. I've always felt like if I ever dropped them, they may break. Also the retention screw/nut on the Barami grips tended to rust from my sweaty hands.

Hand gun grips are kind of a compromise, like many others things handgun. Small enough to not get in the way, and just large enough to offer a solid and secure grip.

I have Barami Hip Grips, and Smith small wooden combat stocks, and a Tyler T Grip adapter. While they look classic, and many swear by the combo, they just never did it for me.

If using rubber grips, I prefer the small squishy Uncle Mike boot grips, or the modern Smith variant of them, or larger Hogue rubber finger groove grips.

Smooth wood grips like Eagle's Secret Service grips don't stick to your shirt or clothing, (a valuable consideration for those carrying concealed) but are often small and slippery grips for sweaty hands. Checkering helps some, but only so much.

While I loved the way the Eagle Secret Service grips looked and felt on my SP101...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52386&d=1305279410

I managed to crack a set of Eagle Secret Service Grips (made from ebony) while shooting factory 357 Magnum through my little 2 inch 357 SP101. The Eagle grips looked absolutely amazing, but recoil was downright brutal with the small slippery grips.

My SP101 now wears small Badger grips instead. (which have not broken)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/18790502079a0e4d49.jpg

While no where near as attractive, the larger Hogue rubber grips help mitigate recoil a lot more for me, and give me more to hang on to. I vastly prefer these grips on the SP101 for extended range sessions, even though they are larger, tend to get in the way, and will also stick to clothing - like a button up flannel.

http://www.danwessonforum.com/wp-content/gallery/bullwolf/SP101-Left.jpg

After all the information about the SP101, I still rarely use the gun. My 442 is lighter and far more convenient. My model 60 almost always get the nod over the SP101. When I really want a 357 Magnum, a full size revolver tends to get put in a holster, with a belt instead of my SP101. The SP101 just sounds really good on paper. It's a fine gun and mine is quite accurate too. I don't want to get rid of it or anything, but I find it surprising that I rarely find the right application for it in my every day life.

I keep coming back to those inexpensive plastic Desanti Clip Grips (and I really hate plastic) due to their overall utility on my Model 60, or an Airweight revolver.


- Bullwolf

[Petrol & Powder]

Bullwolf, there's a lot to be said for simple and functional. The Desanti Clip Grip is the new version of the old Barami Hip Grip and despite the hard plastic, it is a good concept and clearly executed better than the old Barami. The Desanti also eliminates the need for a separate Tyler T-grip, which is almost necessary with the small Barami hip grip.
I too have found the SP101 to be that strange in-between zone. It is a solid gun and a good concept but big enough to be a bit awkward as a snubnose. Like the Colt Detective Special, the SP101 fits between a 2" S&W J-frame and a 2" S&W K-frame. I like the SP101 and have owned several over the years but they are just big/heavy enough to put them in the holster class of snubnose most of the time.
Those Badger grips look sharp on that SP101 and I believe they cost less than the Eagle's.


138319Here is a Detective Special with smooth Eagle secret service rosewood grips. I had to modify the left grip panel to provide clearance for a speed loader. The rosewood doesn't require stain and is the same color all the way through. Stain is not required after carving out the relief.
As much as I like the Detective Specials and Cobras, I find the S&W's and Rugers to be tougher guns.

[EMC45]

I'm not an expert like a lot of the posters in here, but I bought this the first year they became available.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/Picture076.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/Picture076.jpg.html)

The hammer spur will catch on clothing...wait a minute, mine doesn't have one. I've since rounded off the sides of the rear sight blade. I carry it all day when I go to Jellystone and never suffered bruises or contusions and it disappears nicely.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg.html)

I like full range WC loads for SD and make something like the FBI load with a soft alloy 358156 HP. K think I prefer the WC.

That is a clean and nice set up right there. Tylers, Barami Hip Grip. Very classy.

[tazman]

Lots of good information and food for thought here, fellows. I have not made a final decision yet, so please keep it coming.

[Char-Gar]

"5 shots should get you back to the truck for your Mini-30. "

If you use a firearm to survive a deadly force threat; that's called self defense.

If you survive the deadly force encounter, make it back to your truck and go back looking for what was the threat.....that's called 2nd degree murder. It might even be called 1st degree murder.

Let your conscience be your guide

Absolutely correct. Under Texas law, once the threat ceases, the right of self defense ceases. If you get away from the threat, or the threat gets away from you, it is over. If you then pursue the former threat you become the aggressor and the right of self defense passes to the person you are perusing. The fact that he was once the aggressor does not matter under the law.

Grown men don't fight or seek pay back unless they are willing to risk the loss of their life or their freedom.

This is not some liberal Obama, Commie Pinko, left wing law. It has been the law of Texas since the mind of man rememberth not. I feel certain, this is the law in most others states as well.

The exception to all of this is the Texas Castle Law, which frees you from the burden of proving self defense under certain circumstances in your home, business or vehicle. However, in the heat of the moment it will be impossible for you to remember all the ins, outs, exceptions and what ifs of the law, if you ever knew them. If is easy to remember that you don't pull the trigger unless you or a loved one is in immediate threat of death or grave personal injury. Do, that and you won't get cross ways with the law.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, Salvadore's slick 3" model 60 with its dehorned adjustable rear sight and bobbed hammer has me re-evaluating my position. That setup creates an entirely new handgun category in my mind: The Concealable Kit Gun.
Previously when I thought "Kit Gun" the image in my mind was of a 4", pencil barrel, stainless steel revolver chambered in .22, .32 or .38 with adjustable sights and fairly large grips. A lightweight, weather resistant gun that would be carried in a holster/backpack or tackle box and geared more towards small game & plinking rather than self defense.
Salvadore's bobbed hammer/Hip Grip/T-grip 3" barreled 38 Special forces me to create a new "Kit Gun" sub category: The Concealable Kit Gun. Something geared a little more to self defense. I rather like the concept.
Then we have Bullwolf's modern addition of the Desanti Clip Grip that combines the integral clip with a "boot grip" profile and effectively joins the Barami hip grip and Tyler T-grip adaptor into one unit. Basically a compact "boot grip" with a clip.
I still stubbornly (perhaps some would say obnoxiously ? :wink: ) maintain that when you step up to a 3" barrel and holster carry; the 3" K-frame has more to offer than the 3" J-frame. However, a 3" J-frame with a bobbed hammer, dehorned sights and a clip grip that eliminates the need for a holster changes that situation. While I'm not a big fan of IWB carry......the clip grip is about as minimalist as one can get in that arena. Now to be clear, that mode of carry absolutely requires a bobbed hammer, dehorned sights and the smallest possible grips that one can use to shoot well with. But it does force me to rethink the situation.

Tazman, does the 3" model 60 you're looking at resemble this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/S%26W_60_3in.jpg/300px-S%26W_60_3in.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:S%26W_60_3in.jpg)


?

[Char-Gar]

To each their own, but I often carry this 3" Model 36 in a pocket holster. It conceals well grips and all and does not snag when it comes out. I guess at some time in the past, I would have said it wouldn't do what it does, but then I did it. I was pleasantly surprised with how well it works. Works for me!

[Petrol & Powder]

Lop that hammer spur off, send the gun to Robar for a NP3 finish and that would be an OK gun...:kidding:

I'm kidding; you're right, to each his own.

[Larry in MT]

If I'm going to CC a J frame, it'll be this Model 38 Airweight (about 15 oz). In a pocket. If I'm going to go to the trouble of a CC in a holster, it'll be something more potent.
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab176/larrykay47/7df01d0a.jpg

However, around the place, on the 4 wheeler, on the tractor or when I go fishing I carry this Model 60 (2") in this all nylon rig (belt, holster and ammo carrier) and it's great for that. I handload shot cartridges for it and used it on a snake just yesterday. Snakes are always an issue in this area starting around the 1st of May. The adj. sights are very useful on other varmints.
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab176/larrykay47/089475c5.jpg

This rig is non-CC --- unless I'm wearing a jacket

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab176/larrykay47/d927f4b2.jpg

[Petrol & Powder]

The 2" DAO J-Frames such as the models 40, 42, 640, 442, 642 and their shrouded hammer cousins the Bodyguard(s) models 49, 38, 649 and 638 are still some of the best close quarters self defense tools to ever be found.
Small, reliable, lightweight, snag resistant, durable and reasonably powerful in a small package.
There will always be someone that will say the 38 Special lacks power or the 5 round capacity is too little or the guns are difficult to shoot, blah, blah, blah.
Handguns are like parachutes and fire extinguishers - You hope you never need it but if you do need it......you need it right damn now!, Nothing else will do, you are very glad you have it and the simpler it is the better it is !
Sometimes the DAO J-frames are the reserve parachutes of the handgun world!

[Scharfschuetze]

I've carried either 2" or 3" J frame Smiths for close to 40 years as an LEO and civilian and while I like the 2" models in the summer when clothing is less concealing, I've never had an issue with the 3" models. I'm currently carrying a 3" Model 60-10 in .357 on a road trip. I like the adjustable sights on it as well as the heavy lugged barrel and do not find its extra weight or length to be a problem on my medium sized frame.


Handguns are like parachutes and fire extinguishers - You hope you never need it but if you do need it......you need it right damn now!, Nothing else will do, you are very glad you have it and the simpler it is the better it is !
Sometimes the DAO J-frames are the reserve parachutes of the handgun world!

Wise words those.

[Petrol & Powder]

Handguns are like parachutes and fire extinguishers - You hope you never need it but if you do need it......you need it right damn now!, Nothing else will do, you are very glad you have it and the simpler it is the better it is !
Sometimes the DAO J-frames are the reserve parachutes of the handgun world!


Wise words those.

One of the few things that I can claim as mine, maybe I should copyright that? :D

[tazman]

Tazman, does the 3" model 60 you're looking at resemble this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/S%26W_60_3in.jpg/300px-S%26W_60_3in.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:S%26W_60_3in.jpg)


?

Yes it does. That picture looks just like it, grips and all.
I don't recall exactly whether it was a .357 or 38 special since I wasn't concerned by that aspect. Also, it has been about 3 weeks since I saw it. Don't know if it is still there.

[Char-Gar]

Speaking of grips, we were speaking of grips right. For years I carried my Chief Special like pic 1. Then I added the grips as in pic 2. The ability to hit what I am shooting at either SA or fast DA increased several fold. The extra bulk is a small price to pay for the confidence that comes with being able to hit what I am shooting at with precision again, again, again and again.

[FergusonTO35]

The T-grip is sweet, I just sent off my order to get one for my S&W 10-5.

[Petrol & Powder]

Grips are critical but when one is dealing with a small 2" revolver the struggle is the compromise between size and function. Bigger grips are easier to shoot with but more difficult to conceal and smaller grips conceal well but are harder to shoot. Therein lies the the delemma.
Char-Gar has decided to lean a bit towards the shooting requirements of the grips. I lean a bit towards increased concealment. Life is about decisions and we each make our own.

I like the Tyler T-grip and what it offers (Better control for not much additional bulk or cost) but I also like boot grips for the same reasons.

Tazman, I would consider that 3" model 60 if I could set it up like Salvadore's with a bobbed hammer and smaller grip.
As it sits in it's factory cigfiguration with that larger grip, I would still go with a 3" round butt K-frame or go down to a 2" DAO J-frame, but as has been pointed out: to each his own.

[Char-Gar]

I would never use any grip on a concealed handgun that compromised the ability to conceal if. But, if I can get better control as well as good concealment, I am all over that.

[tazman]

If I cannot control the gun or shoot it accurately, then I can't trust it. It is then of no use to me and a danger to everyone around me. I will use whatever grips it takes to make it accurate for me. If I then have a problem with concealment, I will try some other gun in a different configuration.
I shoot my guns every week and do my best to increase my proficiency with all of them. Currently, I have full confidence in being able to take out a bad guy anywhere inside 60 feet. If he is doped up so the first shot doesn't stop him, he is only going to get closer where I can place my next shot more precisely.
I am not worried in the least about 38 special or 9mm being enough cartridge.
I am one of those odd people who goes ice cold when a bad situation comes. Until it is over I am in full control. After it is over I may not be able to stand up or shoot straight for a while, but while it is going on I am good.

[Petrol & Powder]

I would never use any grip on a concealed handgun that compromised the ability to conceal if. But, if I can get better control as well as good concealment, I am all over that.
Can't argue with that logic.

[Petrol & Powder]

If I cannot control the gun or shoot it accurately, then I can't trust it. It is then of no use to me and a danger to everyone around me. I will use whatever grips it takes to make it accurate for me. If I then have a problem with concealment, I will try some other gun in a different configuration.
I shoot my guns every week and do my best to increase my proficiency with all of them. Currently, I have full confidence in being able to take out a bad guy anywhere inside 60 feet. If he is doped up so the first shot doesn't stop him, he is only going to get closer where I can place my next shot more precisely.
I am not worried in the least about 38 special or 9mm being enough cartridge.
I am one of those odd people who goes ice cold when a bad situation comes. Until it is over I am in full control. After it is over I may not be able to stand up or shoot straight for a while, but while it is going on I am good.

Tazman, while it is admirable to be proficient with a handgun at ranges of 20 yards plus, reality proves that is seldom a factor in real encounters. National Institute of Justice [NIJ] studies have shown that a vast majority of lethal force encounters involving firearms occur at ranges less than 7 yards (21 feet) and well over half of those are within 3 yards (9 feet). In addition, there is some evidence that civilian encounters involving firearms are often even closer. The police frequently respond after the initial event and know they are likely to encounter an armed individual and due to training and warnings; are ready to engage an armed subject at greater distances. Even with that knowledge, the vast majority of police involved shootings occur at 7 yards (21 feet) or less. Civilian deadly force encounters often occur with little warning and at even closer ranges.
Your 60 foot (20 yard) benchmark is great in terms of marksmanship but almost insignificant in terms of survival. The gunfight is highly unlikely to start with your adversary 60 feet away. History proves that you'd be lucky if the threat is 9 feet away when you must use deadly force.

Gun Shop Commandos will wax poetic for hours on end about: stopping power, caliber, bullet expansion, penetration, energy, knock down power and bunch of other BS that means nothing. The bottom line is handguns SUCK at stopping humans but unless you want to carry a rifle or shotgun around all the time, handguns are the best tool that is always available.

Once you decide that your defensive tool of choice is going to be a handgun, the next goal is pick the handgun/cartridge combination that is MOST likely to STOP your adversary before your adversary can harm you.
If that tool is a 454 Casull with 300 gr HP bullets that you can put inside of 1" at 25 yards but the gun is locked up 100 feet away in your car..... it will do you no good during the 4 second attack in which you are killed....


If that gun is a Freedom Arms revolver chambered in .22 short and you get one round into the right atrium of your attacker's heart and he dies 10 minutes after he hacks you to death with a machete........that gun will have failed to do you any good.

I could continue upon this line indefinitely. The point is - if you rely upon a handgun as a self defense tool it must be:
1. readily available

2. reliable

3. easily deployed

4. you must be proficient enough with it to quickly place a round in an appropriate location

5. it must launch a projectile that is reasonably likely to STOP your attacker, given good shot placement.

A .44 magnum at home is useless
A .22 Beretta Jetfire that kills your attacker 10 minutes after he kills you is useless
A 460 S&W Magnum that you can't hit with is useless


A 38 Special that you have with you, that you can hit with proficiently and penetrates deep enough to stop your attacker....is worth your life and maybe the lives of your loved ones.

[tazman]

I don't expect a gunfight to start at 60 feet. I practice so I can be good enough to deal with a problem that far away. If I can be confident at 60 feet I will also be confident at closer ranges.
I have also read the distance statistics. You don't know under what circumstances your particular situation may arise. I train to be proficient at what I would consider to be a worst case scenario as far as distance.
I agree completely with your last sentence. I know what I can do with a 38 special. I know what a 38 special is capable of. I have never been a particularly good shot with cartridges bigger or more powerful than 40S&W.
Maybe it was just that particular gun. Maybe it was just me. I am going to carry something I feel confident shooting.
If I don't feel confident in my ability to put rounds where I want them, I won't carry a gun at all.

[MarkP]

If you buy it and do not like it a 3" J-Frame with or without adj sights would be very easy to sell.

I have 2" & 3" J frames and 2" K frames, I can shoot my 2" K frames as well as my 4 & 6" K frames. May want to look at a S&W M 12 (K frame air wt,) easy to shoot and light weight.

[Petrol & Powder]

138476Ah, the model 12!
The upper one is a great gun. K-frame, DAO, lightweight and custom boot grips by Craig Spegel. A fine tool for SD.

The lower one, NIB unfired. Frame cracked the first time I shot it ! It appears the barrel was over tightened at the factory but regardless, it is now a paperweight.

[Mtnfolk75]

I have posted before about pocket carry. I usually carry a Model 38 No-Dash in a Mika Pocket Holster in my right front jeans pocket, along with a Speed Strip in the watch pocket. If leaving the cabin area, I also carry another handgun either IWB or Strong Side Belt. For the last 6 or so months the IWB/Belt gun has been a 2" Model 10-5 with a shaved hammer spur and Uncle Mike's Boot Grips, the ones that are identical to the Craig Spiegal Boots. Now that the weather had started to warm I have occasionally carried the 2" 10-5 in an Uncle Mike's Size 4 Pocket Holster as a solo firearm, of course a S&W Model 59 along with a spare hi-cap have found a home in the lockable console of my Jeep when ever I leave the mountain ..... ;-)

I have been pleasantly surprised with the comfort of carrying the 10-5 in my pocket, and it is a given that I shoot it much better than the J. When I do carry the 10-5 solo, I also add another Speed Strip onto my belt in a flat pouch from Simply Rugged. I have also started leaving a couple of HKS K-Frame Speed loaders in the locked Jeep console ... [smilie=s:

[Thin Man]

Many, many years ago I saw where one of the "specialty" vendors was offering the model 60 with a 3" straight profile barrel and tried to order one. By the time I got to them they were completely out of stock with no more coming in. That got me on the hunt for a barrel (and ejector parts) to convert an existing 2" M-60 I already had. The vendor (wish I could remember their name correctly, think it was John Jovino & Co.) claimed to have no remaining barrels. Called S&W who denied ever having made these barrels (in spite of the company name and details on the 3" barrels being sold by the vendor), they suggested I call the vendor again. Back I go for a second call to the vendor and tell them the S&W claim. The vendor then stated they had a barrel and would sell it only if they were the ones to install it. Short story, the M-60 went to the vendor, later returned with the 3" barrel plus all of my original parts which were removed to make the swap. I put a set a Pachmayer Compact grips on the revolved and carried it for many years (LEO plain clothes duty). Practically every person who handled that firearm loved the way it feels in the hand and wanted either to buy that one or another like it. Yes, I still have it. It shots to the sights with 158+/- boolits at nominal to +P pressures and shot-to-shot recovery is on target. This old friend will be with me until I quit.

[Petrol & Powder]

That's a cool piece of history, particularly if it came from John Jovino in lower Manhattan!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/John_Jovino_Sign_1.JPG/250px-John_Jovino_Sign_1.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Jovino_Sign_1.JPG)

That may be the oldest gun shop in the country!

[Bigslug]

A 3" 60 is a great gun, but it's got several limitations:

You won't have nearly as many holster options as you will for the 2" guns. The 3" barrels are made mainly for getting around certain import/export restrictions.

The hammer is a potential snag point, and the hammer cut in the frame is an entry point for pocket lint and other crud.

The 2" DAO J frames are VERY accurate once you learn how to run them, and an added bonus is that it forces you to practice with the trigger pull you are likely to use in self defense, rather than allowing you to get lazy on the range by cocking the hammer.

[tazman]

A 3" 60 is a great gun, but it's got several limitations:

You won't have nearly as many holster options as you will for the 2" guns. The 3" barrels are made mainly for getting around certain import/export restrictions.

The hammer is a potential snag point, and the hammer cut in the frame is an entry point for pocket lint and other crud.

The 2" DAO J frames are VERY accurate once you learn how to run them, and an added bonus is that it forces you to practice with the trigger pull you are likely to use in self defense, rather than allowing you to get lazy on the range by cocking the hammer.

Every point you make is very true. Possibly the most important is the final one. I am just as guilty as anyone of mostly practicing in single action mode. That by itself may be enough reason to go with a DAO setup. I will have to give this some serious consideration.

[stu1ritter]

"salvadore", I see we both like those full meplat bullets.

Stu
https://imageshack.com/i/ipaZytcYj

[Low Budget Shooter]

Tazman, I tried a number of guns, smaller and larger, and found, "just right" in a 3" Colt Cobra, very similar to your 3" S&W Model 60. So I agree with your idea of that as a carry gun. LBS

[salvadore]

Looks like it stu, I shoot a 245gr one in my .44s too.

[justashooter]

Why go with a J frame when you can get a bobbed off I frame?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131467&d=1424447601

[tazman]

I got the chance to shoot a 2 inch 9mm Taurus revolver today and put 50 rounds through it. The grips didn't fit my hands well and the trigger wasn't very good but it shot well enough.
I was shooting it in poor lighting conditions and couldn't make out the sights at all. They were silver and gray and faded out when in front of the target which was a black silhouette. I just pointed it where it felt right and fired the gun.
The grips were for a woman with much smaller hands than my large ones. I couldn't achieve a grip that would control the gun properly. I ended up wearing a blister on the knuckle of my trigger finger from the trigger guard rubbing against it when the gun fired. It never did hurt. I found the blister when I got done shooting.
I was still getting 6 inch groups at about 20 feet with all the things stacked against me. I was surprised it did that well under the circumstances.
I still think the 3 inch Smith will balance better and shoot better for me that the gun I just handled. As I remember it has better sights and a slightly larger grip than the Taurus.
I am going to go there and look it over again next week. If I still like it, I believe I will buy it.

[Petrol & Powder]

In the end it is your decision alone. Bad grips and a bad trigger can turn any gun into a bad experience.

2" snub nosed revolvers can be far more accurate than a lot of people will admit but they are not target guns; they are close quarters fighting guns. I've seen a lot of people that can shoot the snubnose 38 very respectfully and I can hold my own with one. It is all about picking the right tool for the job.

The snubnose, DAO 38 Special revolver is a tool designed for concealment and ease of carry; not Bullseye competition.
The compromise is size & weight vs. accuracy. There is no doubt that a gun with larger grips and a longer sight radius is easier to shoot but more difficult to actually carry.
I'm not certain that a 2" Taurus 9mm is indicative of all snubnose revolvers and I would withhold judgment based on that limited sample but regardless of how many snubnose revolvers one tries, the type may not be suitable for you.

If you can carry & conceal a 3" J-frame, I promise that you can carry and conceal a 3", round-butt K-frame just as easily and I suspect you will be able to shoot the K-frame better than the J-frame. You owe it to yourself to try both before you commit money.

The strength of the 2' J-frame is the ability to conceal it.
The strength of the 3" barrel is the increased sight radius.
The strength of the 3" K-frame is that it is practically the same size as a 3" J-frame but has far better grips and one more round.

I would caution basing a judgment on 2" snubnose revolvers on one 9mm Taurus.

[tazman]

I considered that the circumstances of the test firing last night were as close as I could get to what an actual confrontation might be(dark, poor lighting, sights not readily visible, etc). I wasn't looking for target accuracy. I was testing to see if I could shoot one adequately under poor conditions. Adequate being good body hits at close range. I was testing myself as much as the gun. It accomplished that quite handily.
It may be that the grips on the 60 were the same size as the grips on the Taurus. I will need to check on that.
Other than the Taurus(which belonged to the range owner), I have no options for testing any other snubbies. The ranges around here don't have snubbies in the test gun area and the people who come there to shoot don't bring short revolvers with them. In order to test one, I have to buy it first. Most people are bringing short autos to carry. I guess they like the extra ammo capacity.
In this area, used snubbies are unobtainium. The 60 I handled was a rare occurrence and may no longer be available. There was no option for test firing the 60 in any case.
I have never seen a 3 inch k frame anywhere except possibly on Gunbroker. The recent availability of concealed carry permits in this state has gobbled up all the used small pistols.
I don't really trust buying a gun that I cannot handle first, particularly one that my life may depend on. That is why I am not very trusting about getting a gun from a web site. You never know whose problems you may be buying.
In any case the search continues. If the 60 is no longer available, I will be considering a 2 inch barreled revolver as well after my test run last night.

[Petrol & Powder]

Sounds like you are right on the money in terms of your evaluation of a small revolver for self defense. In these types of discussions it is easy to get lost in the tall weeds. Most people offering to help will say, "Well I use _________", which is not terribly helpful.
The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun. That is the real strength of a 2" DAO revolver, it lends itself to always being available.

A 6" group from a gun you've never fired before, with poorly fitted grips and at a target 20' away in bad lighting, isn't horrible. It will not win a Bullseye match but that's not the goal. I don't advocate the spray and pray method of self defense nor do I see a large group fired from a small gun and say, "that's good enough" but deadly force encounters with a firearm are not about pretty little groups at 25 yards during slow timed fire. The key is having a firearm available that can be readily deployed even under stress, that is simple and intuitive to use, that is absolutely reliable, that you can use to quickly put a couple of effective rounds in approximately the right place.
I think you're on the right path and I encourage you to keep steering that course.

[white eagle]

I would say That would be about perfect

[Ilwil]

I have a Model 60 with 3" barrel, adjustable sights. I think most agree that an extra inch of barrel makes a huge difference, much more shootable. Adjustable sights aren't so desirable, although it is nice to be able to dial the gun in and hit what you want at 25 yards, even if it is just for fun. Recently, I picked up one of the new Ruger LCRx, also 3", adjustable sighted, with a Hogue extended grip. It is as light as can be, a dream to carry, and quite accurate. Rated for .38 plus ps, I think it makes a considerable claim to being an ideal, all-round carry gun.

[2shot]

1 7/8"M-60 here. No problems drawing and snagging the hammer if you know how to draw it properly. I like you Taz am 63 years old, 6'4" and 250#. With big hands you just learn to put your thumb of your gun hand over the hammer when drawing it. It will not snag doing this and I can draw this way as fast as anybody with a hammerless gun and can shoot either single or double action once the gun is drawn. As far as the 38 Special, plenty of gun for social work if needed and in my case I see no need or want for a longer barrel. The 3" may be more accurate for target shooting but truth be told the longer the barrel the harder it is to find the front sight quickly, that is if you ever see the front sight in a close encounter. Most of these confrontations are more point and shoot than taking a fine bead on something.

To tell the truth my M-60 1/78" barrel conceals as well as my Kel-Tec PF-9 and has better point-ability for me.


2shot

[oldlongbeard]

Get what you WILL carry. If you find you don't carry, because you can't, or don't like to, SELL IT, and buy something you WILL carry. Have it with you whenever you can. I have settled on a S&W 642, as I have some injuries whereby pocket carry is best for me. (I cannot carry IWB). The air weight, short barrel is easy to pocket carry. I am also about your size...... I couldn't carry another 1"+ of barrel plus another 9 OZ (!!!!) more weight in a jeans pocket, and keep it concealed without pocket mods..... which some folks do. My 2 cents. Oh- if you are gonna pocket carry, do get a bobbed hammer on that thing. I prefer the enclosed hammer on the Centennials, but you do whatever you want. THINK about what will happen, should that action get clogged with whatever, and you NEED that gun. Keep it cleaned. Don't forget. Don't put it off. Murphy will be riding in your pocket. He has a law, I am sure you are familiar with. 5 P's.... all that. Good luck. It can be a bit if a journey. Glad to see another person deciding to join the "Wolves" instead of staying one of the "Sheeple".

[tazman]

I was never one of the sheeple. I just wasn't quite as dangerous as I could have been.
As I am certain you know, it wasn't until just recently that we even had the option to carry in this state. I intend to take full advantage of that now, particularly since I am getting a bit older and considerably less athletic than I once was.

[Petrol & Powder]

The smart man has the means to defend himself and the wisdom to avoid situations where it would be likely to need to defend himself. The Charles Bronson "Deathwish" mentality will certainly land a person in a graveyard or a prison.
I know a man that is proficient with a handgun and always carries it. He has trained in martial arts for most of his life and he is very good. He is one of the most polite, respectful, unassuming individuals you will ever encounter. He will go out of his way to avoid trouble but if trouble finds him, I'm certain he will prevail. He is quietly dangerous.

I mention this because having the means to defend yourself, in this case relying on a firearm as a personal weapon; requires that you have the firearm WITH you!
I agree with oldlongbeard, Get what you will carry!

[LabGuy]

My NRA training counselor had me use a model 60 3” when takingthe Personal Protection Outside the Home instructor class. He felt like I played a lot with autos andcould benefit from the wheel gun time. Anyway, I spent a fair amount of time strongside carry drawing and shooting. I likedit a lot. So much, that I’ve haveprocured two Model 60 Pro’s one for my wife and one for my daughter. They don’t carry them much, but use them atthe range and as a house gun mostly.

[Virginia John]

A 2" or 3" for self defense is a good choice. They are meant to be "belly" guns, they are not going to be fired from distance for accuracy. They are meant to stop an attack and they will do that very well.

[tazman]

"salvadore", I see we both like those full meplat bullets.

Stu
https://imageshack.com/i/ipaZytcYj

I just bought a Modern Bond mold for the 38 special with that style of wadcutter. It will be interesting to see how it shoots after it gets here.
I can compare it to my NOE hollow base and my Lyman 358432. It may not make any difference but it sure is fun finding out if it does.