Model 65 vs. Speed-Six

[Petrol & Powder]

I have long considered the 3" barreled, fixed-sighted, round-butt, .357 mag, 6 shot revolver to be an outstanding combination of size/weight/power.
The S&W model 13 with a round butt and a 3" heavy barrel fits that description perfectly and its all-weather stainless twin, the Model 65 is even better.
While a 3" K-frame is too large for pocket carry or an ankle holster, it carries beautifully in a pancake holster or some other On-The-Waistband [OWB] rig. The round-butt 3" K-frame is extremely "packable" and fills that void between a full size 4" square butt and a 2" snubnose.

For years I felt the S&W Model 65 was the pinnacle of that genre but my love of Ruger double action revolvers has led me astray. Enter the stainless steel Speed-Six.

The other day I saw a stainless Speed-Six with a factory bobbed hammer and a Tyler T-grip adaptor. I couldn't afford it but I really wanted it! I'll never let go of my 3" Model 65 and I can't add a Speed-Six right now, so I'm going to do the next best thing - Ask for opinions and encourage discussion ! :-)

The S&W 3" RB model 65 vs. the Ruger 2.75" Stainless Speed-Six ?

[rintinglen]

I have had both Ruger Security Sixes and S&W revolvers galore and I am hard put to choose between them. The Smith will break long before the Ruger, and the Ruger will never have as nice an action as the Smith. I kick myself for not buying the last Ruger I saw for sale, but you can'y buy 'em all.

[twc1964]

I have never owned either guns, but i did have the chance to shoot a model 65 quite a few times. That gun left an impression on me to this dat. Shooting mufflers stuck on a pole at 50yds and spinning em with boring regularity. Wish i had that one.

[three50seven]

I have and have had both K frames and Six series guns. For carrying, I would opt for the K frame. If you plan to shoot a lot of .357s through it, the Six-series guns would be a better bet.

[Outpost75]

While I am partial to Rugers, and that is no secret, the later S&W K-frames Models 13, 64, 65 with 3" barrel and FULL LENGTH ejector rod are good guns.

Using a steady diet of .357 the Ruger will be more durable than the S&W, but if you do not exceed a 1:5 ratio of .357 Magnums to .38 Special +P the K-frame will outlast most people owning it.

But if using mostly full-charge .357s and +P+ .38 Special handloads, the Ruger is my recommendation.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have both S&W's and Rugers and even though I have far more Smith's; I'm partial to the Rugers.
I shoot far more 38 Special rounds than .357 magnum and most of my revolvers are chambered in 38 Special but there's something very attractive about the Speed-Six.

I don't know the weight difference between the 3" K-frame and the 2.75" Speed-Six but I'd be willing to guess they're pretty close. The Ruger has a slightly heavier frame and that 1/4" difference in barrel length couldn't amount to much.

That bobbed hammer Speed-Six looked like a serious machine.

Must...resist.....impulse....... to purchase............;-)

[bhn22]

I greatly prefer the Ruger "Six" series revolvers I've owned to the S&W K frames I've had. There is so much more to a gun than simply how the trigger feels out of the box.

[MT Gianni]

Call me a heretic but I notice little difference between the 3" and 4' K frames and a huge difference in a poor way dropping to 2 1/2". Shoot what you can find and have it with you when you need it.

[Petrol & Powder]

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bob_hammer_speed_six.jpgThis isn't the same Speed-Six that I saw but it's very close. Everything you need and nothing extra. Maximum utility and all business.

[Petrol & Powder]

Call me a heretic but I notice little difference between the 3" and 4' K frames and a huge difference in a poor way dropping to 2 1/2". Shoot what you can find and have it with you when you need it.

No accusations of heresy. The 3" is just a bit easier to tote than the 4" and the round-butt a tad easier to conceal. Not big differences but enough to shape my preference when shooting takes a backseat to carrying.

[FergusonTO35]

3" K-frames are getting pricey. Everything else being equal they command a $50-100 premium over a 4 incher. I would very much love to have a 3" model 64 someday, heck I would even settle for the Taurus equivalent. Sure do love my 1988 Service Six too!

[Char-Gar]

I have long been a Smith and Wesson fan and even have the company logo tattooed on my ankle. That said, the Ruger is a very nice and more durable revolver. The answer to your problem is have one of each and use them for a couple of years and sell the one you least favor down river, or keep them both. Just follow your heart and don't try and make an informed decision. Some things can't be reduced to spread sheets.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have a couple of 4" Service-Sixes that I'll never let go of. The Six series Rugers are special guns and I wish Ruger would have found a place for them after the GP-100 and SP101's came on line.
I fear Char-Gar is correct concerning the future acquisition of a Speed-Six.
Emotion may have to trump logic.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Buy the Speed Six, they ain't getti'n any cheaper. Speed Six, Security Six, Service Six, probably the two best .38/.357's Ruger made. I owned a S&W 13-3 3" round but, the factory grips actually made my hand bleed after firing it, sweet gun with Pachmayr's though.

[Char-Gar]

I fear Char-Gar is correct concerning the future acquisition of a Speed-Six.
Emotion may have to trump logic.

"The heart has reasons that reason cannot know."...Pascal

[Petrol & Powder]

Char-Gar, I count on you to be the voice of reason !

You're not helping :drinks:

[Petrol & Powder]

138002I've had this Model 65 for over 20 years.
It has provided yeoman like service and is as tight today as the day I got it.

[Outpost75]

I have both S&W's and Rugers and even though I have far more Smith's; I'm partial to the Rugers.....I shoot far more 38 Special rounds than .357 magnum and most of my revolvers are chambered in 38 Special but there's something very attractive about the Speed-Six. I don't know the weight difference between the 3" K-frame and the 2.75" Speed-Six but I'd be willing to guess they're pretty close. The Ruger has a slightly heavier frame and that 1/4" difference in barrel length couldn't amount to much....Must...resist.....impulse....... to purchase............;-)

Ruger made thousands of contract guns with actual 3" barrels for Customs, Border Patrol, ATF, ONI, etc.

[Petrol & Powder]

Outpost, you and Char-Gar are going to get me in trouble !

[FergusonTO35]

I have owned the GP-100 and SP-101. For shooting punishing loads they are a great choice. For every other purpose or preference under the sun, the Six series has 'em beat. I never could get excited about the GP and SP. They shoot well but really need to go on a diet. I never shoot .357 in handguns so the extra weight and strength is just a burden. They went down the road in favor of other projects and I don't miss them.

My Service Six, on the other hand, is just a sweet shooter with .38 +P reloads. It doesn't strongly favor one boolit weight either, unlike most fixed sight wheel guns. The Six fits most K frame holsters no problem. Love that gun!

[rockshooter]

hope you don't need parts or factory service for the sixes- you can't get there from here
Loren

[Petrol & Powder]

Yep, I'm aware that factory parts are no longer available but there are plenty of Six's out there to cannibalize. Unless I break something major, I can probably fix it. I've been shooting Ruger DA's for many years and the bottom line is, They don't break.

It's all academic at this point. I don't have the money to buy a "new to me" Speed-Six.

[alamogunr]

Ruger made thousands of contract guns with actual 3" barrels for Customs, Border Patrol, ATF, ONI, etc.

I've got a S&W 65 w/3"bbl but this thread got me thinking about a Ruger *Six. Went to Gunbroker to look around. There may be thousands of government contract Sixes around but people are hanging on to them and those who don't, want a LOT of $$ for them.

[salvadore]

"You can drag a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead." - Alfred E. Newman

[FergusonTO35]

I only put about 200 rounds a year through my Six to save wear. It was one owner/like new when I bought it, didn't even have a turn ring on the cylinder. For general range shooting my well worn S&W 10-5 and Taurus 82 serve just fine. I would love to see Ruger make a six shot wheel gun that doesn't weigh a ton. The SP-101 is already big for a five shot, I think it would be pretty easy to open the frame a little and make it a six shot .38. Add a 3" barrel and adjustable rear sight and I couldn't buy one fast enough. Ruger has shown a willingness to create new revolver variations lately so maybe it will happen someday.

[Outpost75]

I've got a S&W 65 w/3"bbl but this thread got me thinking about a Ruger *Six. Went to Gunbroker to look around. There may be thousands of government contract Sixes around but people are hanging on to them and those who don't, want a LOT of $$ for them.

Also, current government practice among the Federal agencies is not to sell off old turn-in guns, but to have them destroyed. When I visitied Ruger police department turn-ins and confiscated weapons were sent to Pine Tree Casting for destruction in the foundry.

Ruger made a big deal that they would NOT use any "inferior" steel of "unknown history" to cast any parts for their guns. They explained that a service to government customers, they would invite representatives to witness and certify the destruction. The melted guns would be converted into manhole covers, anvils, tournament horse shoes, hammer heads or whatever the customer wanted, and the castings made from those destroyed guns returned to the City of New York, Boston, Baltimore, Washington, DC or whatever.

I remember a speech by then-Mayor Marion Barry, at a political rally showing, "Here is what 1000 guns taken off our streets look like!" and pointing to a stack of manhole covers having the Pine Tree logo on them. If you are brave enough to walk the streets of Anacostia, you can find them there!

[Petrol & Powder]

Ferguson, I'm with you. The GP-100 and SP101 are excellent guns and far stronger than they need to be, particularly for 38 Special. The old Six series guns were closer to S&W K-frame dimensions and weight but generally stronger than K-frames. What I'd like to see is a GP-100 with a half lug barrel, a little more taper to the barrel and a cylinder that still had 6 chambers but a smaller overall diameter. Sort of a new generation Six series with the GP style cylinder lock-up and peg type grip frame. Bigger than a SP101, lighter than a GP-100. I'd buy one !

Outpost, using recycled steel from firearms to make manhole covers is a waste but I bet those are some great manhole covers!

You're right about federal law enforcement agencies destroying old firearms. A lot of local and state LE agencies offset the cost of new firearms by selling the old ones (often with their own officers getting first right of refusal) but the feds have become very scared to "release" old guns into any type of market, even one as tightly regulated as firearms transfers. It is a waste but it has anti-gun political roots.

[texaswoodworker]

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bob_hammer_speed_six.jpgThis isn't the same Speed-Six that I saw but it's very close. Everything you need and nothing extra. Maximum utility and all business.

I prefer an unbobbed hammer, but that is a beautiful gun either way. :D

[Petrol & Powder]

Simple is a good thing.

[Char-Gar]

Simple is a good thing.

Amen and amen!

[Petrol & Powder]

161348
Well it was bound to happen. I found a Speed-Six and just had to have it.

[Uncle R.]

161348
Well it was bound to happen. I found a Speed-Six and just had to have it.


Sweet!
Well done!
I hope to some day find a 3" round butt 65 for my own carry, but a six series Ruger would do nicely and I'd grab one too if I came across it for a reasonable price.

I hope you enjoy your Speed-Six for many years to come.

Uncle R.

[M-Tecs]

even have the company logo tattooed on my ankle.

Color me surprised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never pictured you at a Tat. fan.

[FergusonTO35]

Love those Speed Sixes. Ruger, why did you have to let them go?

[Lance Boyle]

Nice revolvers either way.

I once brokered a deal between my BIL and my good friend. My BIL was getting out of reloading at the time and was trading off a few year old Dillon 550 and my friend had a 3" S&W model 66. The trade was made and soon my buddy missed his little 66. Oh he had a handful of other revolvers but nothing quite like that 66.

For years he asked me if my BIL still had that 66 and if he wanted to sell it back to him. The answer was always the same, yes he has it, no he wouldn't sell as he carried that 66 everywhere. Sadly my buddy never even set up the Dillon press. He intends to but he hasn't in the 20 years since the trade. On the good side though he did find a replacement 3" 66.

[Petrol & Powder]

A medium frame, round-butt revolver with a 2.5"-3" inch barrel is one of those things that is easy to dismiss until you carry one for a while. They give up a little sight radius to a 4" tube, but not much. The round butt grip profile is a little easier to conceal but is still practical. They weigh a little less than the same gun with a 4" barrel.
They are very understated tools and often overlooked.

[FergusonTO35]

Agree totally. Apparently alot of other folks do too as high mileage 3" S&W 64's command over $400.00 on Gunbroker. Speed Sixes always go over $500.00 if they have a less than 4" barrel. Someone on the Ruger forum recently paid $1250.00 for an NIB specimen with a rare 3" tube- most are actually 2.75".

[Petrol & Powder]

The rain let up just one day but I squeezed a tiny bit of range time in during the break.
As expected, the Speed-Six performed perfectly.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have experience with both, although both were 4" versions. I liked 'em both, but in the end I still have the Model 65 and the Speed Six resides with my brother. Either one will do yeoman service for its owner and ours have now served for over 40 years. I'm able to type this thanks to the Model 65's inherent accuracy and smooth double action.

[beemer]

I shot the GP and 101 a good bit but went back to the Sixes. One of my favorites is a stainless bi-centennial Service Six with a 2 3/4 in. barrel that was turned into a round butt. It laid on my Dad's nightstand for over 30 years.

Dave

[johniv]

Have a 2.5" 66 and a 3" speed six and I have to disagree with the statement that the S&W will always have the better trigger. There is no difference in the DA pull between the two.

[Bigslug]

There is absolutely no "suck" in either choice!

Personally, I'm a GP-100 fan, and the 3" stainless, fixed sight version with the smaller version of their wood-inlay grips could be regarded as the "M1 Abrams" version of the old 3" FBI Smith, that handles about as well, but is impossible to kill. I like the shrouded, non-rotating extractor rod, not having a sideplate, the third lockup on the crane, the spur grip frame that lets you install ANY size grip you care to make. . .

The trick to triggers on the Ruger GP/Redhawk series: Field strip the guts, flush them, oil them excessively, reassemble, then dry fire or shoot the bejeezus out of it. Flush again, lubricate sensibly, and never envy anyone with a Python ever again.

If I were to pick up the Smith. . .I'd probably hold out for a blued one just because of the history of the thing. Very high on my personal cool scale.

[Petrol & Powder]

I completely agree with Bigslug: "..... I like the shrouded, non-rotating extractor rod, not having a sideplate, the third lockup on the crane, the spur grip frame that lets you install ANY size grip you care to make. . ."
The GP is a fine gun and super strong.

Whenever the subject of Ruger DA revolvers is discussed the DA trigger pull is included. While I think it is fair to say that Ruger could sometimes stand to do a bit more polishing of some internal parts and they like really heavy springs ; Ruger's do respond very well to some minor tweeking. The trigger pull on a Ruger DA revolver can be made far better than a lot of people would believe.

As much as I like the GP-100's, I wish Ruger would put them on a diet. The old Six series DA revolvers were great guns and I wish Ruger had keep them in production along side the GP100 and SP101.

[Bigslug]

Whenever the subject of Ruger DA revolvers is discussed the DA trigger pull is included. While I think it is fair to say that Ruger could sometimes stand to do a bit more polishing of some internal parts and they like really heavy springs. . .

Heavy I'm OK with. It means you get a fast and positive rebound on your trigger and I would prefer to hit my primers with a 10# sledgehammer instead of giving them love taps. As long as it's smooth, I can roll with heavy.


As much as I like the GP-100's, I wish Ruger would put them on a diet.

The things I wish Ruger would do:

1. Tapered barrels, like the old Smiths. . .or the current Smith Mountain Guns. There's a place for truck axles with underlugs, and there's a place for something you want to walk around with.

2. Spur / GP-100 style grips on the STANDARD Redhawk. . .along with the aforementioned tapered, 5" barrel. . .

3. A 5-shot GP-100 in .44 mag.

[Petrol & Powder]

Couldn't agree more.